cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => The Chamber of Tears => Topic started by: Nightmare798 on December 04, 2013, 12:19:58 pm
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It is your goddamn fault if you want to horse-bump-slash them, if you werent stupid, and turned a little while releasing your attack, you wouldnt get hit. Maybe you dont realize that riding a horse gives you higher ground, but it doesnt make your weapon longer.
Oh and about Warlord saying that 1H can kill Cav lancers, that is complete bs.
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Worthy of a topic - Worthy of General Discussion
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so, if even 1h is off-limits to cav, what are they supposed to do ?
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so, if even 1h is off-limits to cav, what are they supposed to do ?
Accept death!
Seriously though its not that hard to kill cav with swings and footwork to :)
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so, if even 1h is off-limits to cav, what are they supposed to do ?
What, you cant adapt your higher speed and aditional health into combat?
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I've killed plenty of lancers using my warhammer
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I've killed plenty of lancer before using my warhammer
Did they try to stab you?
EDIT: Did they try to stab you at high speed with couched lance and hit?
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it is quite easy to kill lancers with a 1h, their turning angle is awful and thus you can use this to beat them
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What, you cant adapt your higher speed and aditional health into combat?
Lol, you speak like there are no disadvantages to being cav, and proceed to cite speed, which is the ONLY advantage of cav and "additional health" which is not a statement that reflects reality at all. Horsemen have two distinct health bars. Losing one or the other equals death with very few exceptions. Nobody can adapt to losing 99% of their agility and be a huge ass target which cannot be protected and dies from basically anything due to speed bonus.
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it is quite easy to kill lancers with a 1h, their turning angle is awful and thus you can use this to beat them
That is however matter of skill. If they cant hit you with a dagger on a long stick while speeding on a horse, they just need to get better.
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That is however matter of skill. If they cant hit you with a dagger on a long stick while speeding on a horse, they just need to get better.
Have you tried doing it before spouting nonsense ? Do you know how narrow the time window for releasing a lance attack is on a "speeding horse" ?
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That is however matter of skill. If they cant hit you with a dagger on a long stick while speeding on a horse, they just need to get better.
U could reverse that aswell. If u get hit by a knife on a stick with a very limited angle u need to get better. Better footwork or use the terrain to ur advantage.
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Lol, you speak like there are no disadvantages to being cav, and proceed to cite speed, which is the ONLY advantage of cav and "additional health" which is not a statement that reflects reality at all. Horsemen have two distinct health bars. Losing one or the other equals death with very few exceptions. Nobody can adapt to losing 99% of their agility and be a huge ass target which cannot be protected and dies from basically anything due to speed bonus.
That is strange, after being dehorsed, I can still get up and fight most of the time, unless I am stupid and go rambo on a group of people.
Losing 99 of their agility? They are on horse back! that means they are faster than everyone else. Also, they can protect themselves, shield is there to cover them from projectiles.
Them dying to anything really depends on the horse they have. If they ride around or unarmored palfrey or destrier, ofc they are not exactly supposed to be long lived. Those horses are not meant for frontal charges.
And tbh, I was able to stab them off horse even prepatch. It is just slightly easier now.
The point is that if they actually knew that they should not charge head-on on your sword and instead turn a little to their side and do a sword drive-by, they would be fine. But no, they just go, try to crash into you, and then slash you while you are on ground.
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U could reverse that aswell. If u get hit by a knife on a stick with a very limited angle u need to get better. Better footwork or use the terrain to ur advantage.
Very limited angle? as far asI know they can turn in at least 160 degrees radius. that is enough to easily aim and hit.
And as far as I know, I was not complaining about getting stabbed by lance off horseback, I was complaing about people complaining that they cant simply zap through your weapon and easily kill you. Horse is not supposed make you invincible, it gives you speed, meat shield and high ground.
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That is strange, after being dehorsed, I can still get up and fight most of the time, unless I am stupid and go rambo on a group of people.
Maybe you are some rambo god that never gets dehorsed near enemies. More likely, you just forgot about it whne writing this post.
Losing 99 of their agility? They are on horse back! that means they are faster than everyone else.
I can't believe I have to explain this. Yes, their maximum speed is higher than that of infantry. However, horses take ages to make turns, even at standstill. they also take a lot of time to accelerate and decelerate. In all these things that, unlike speed, are actually relevant to direct fighting, infantry has a huge advantage.
Also, they can protect themselves, shield is there to cover them from projectiles.
Good archers will not aim at your shield, but your horse's head or rear. Infantry will hit the horse's legs.
Them dying to anything really depends on the horse they have. If they ride around or unarmored palfrey or destrier, ofc they are not exactly supposed to be long lived. Those horses are not meant for frontal charges.
No horse is meant for frontal charges. Even a plated charged can only withstand a few hits in the legs.
And tbh, I was able to stab them off horse even prepatch. It is just slightly easier now.
Exactly
The point is that if they actually knew that they should not charge head-on on your sword and instead turn a little to their side and do a sword drive-by, they would be fine. But no, they just go, try to crash into you, and then slash you while you are on ground.
Pro-tip : no cav worth his salt is charging head-on. Due to the crippling weaknessses of cav in open combat, most dedicate themselves solely to hunt unaware enemies, because that's the only thing that will not get your horse and yourself killed instantly.
Very limited angle? as far asI know they can turn in at least 160 degrees radius. that is enough to easily aim and hit.
In cRPG the lancing angle is equal to the couched lance angle, 70 degrees iirc. Anything slightly to the left or right cannot be hit.
And as far as I know, I was not complaining about getting stabbed by lance off horseback, I was complaing about people complaining that they cant simply zap through your weapon and easily kill you. Horse is not supposed make you invincible, it gives you speed, meat shield and high ground.
It's just making easier something that was already easy. Cav doesn't make you invicible, rather the opposite.
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I can't believe I have to explain this. Yes, their maximum speed is higher than that of infantry. However, horses take ages to make turns, even at standstill. they also take a lot of time to accelerate and decelerate. In all these things that, unlike speed, are actually relevant to direct fighting, infantry has a huge advantage.
I played cav you know, so I know too how fast horses turn, and I tell you, your opinion that it is nearly impossible to navigate around and get yourself in favourable position to strike (not to mention with a longer weapon and at higher speed), is completely false. If you cannot do it, then train harder.
Good archers will not aim at your shield, but your horse's head or rear. Infantry will hit the horse's legs.
Maybe you dont realize that most of the archers on c-rpg cant even hit a horse. Most of them have problem to calculate how much will the arrow arc in flight, let alone shooting a horse.
No horse is meant for frontal charges. Even a plated charged can only withstand a few hits in the legs.
If you want to turn this into realism discussion, you must also realize that speeding horse that is hit in its leg while in gallop will fall over and there is high chance that it will break its neck. Regardless of that, hitting an armored horse in its leg while it is running is pretty hard.
Pro-tip : no cav worth his salt is charging head-on. Due to the crippling weaknessses of cav in open combat, most dedicate themselves solely to hunt unaware enemies, because that's the only thing that will not get your horse and yourself killed instantly.
I disagree, but my disagreement comes from fact that cav players in this game cant execute head on cavalry formation lance charges.
In cRPG the lancing angle is equal to the couched lance angle, 70 degrees iirc. Anything slightly to the left or right cannot be hit.
I didnt know that you are talking about couching angle. As far as I know, you can also use lance normally using LMB.
It's just making easier something that was already easy. Cav doesn't make you invicible, rather the opposite.
Yeah well playing cav requires you to change your tactics. you must be oportunitist, you must take an advantage of your speed and play cautiously.
Do that, and you will prosper.
EDIT: By the way, I would also like to see the back muscle spasm of the cav fixed. I agree that suddenly turning your back 30 degrees makes it hard to aim, and it is one of my main problems playing this class.
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Totally makes sense that you claim in your first post that it is toally bs ... omg dude
I claim that 1h weapon outreaching lance is bullshit.
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Maybe you dont realize that most of the archers on c-rpg cant even hit a horse. Most of them have problem to calculate how much will the arrow arc in flight, let alone shooting a horse.
where do you play? I want to play on this server filled with crappy archers because it sure inst eu1
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I claim that 1h weapon outreaching lance is bullshit.
I claim that Nightmare798's threads is bullshit.
Stating "1h can't kill lance cav", is different than "1h can't outreach lancecav".
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I claim that Nightmare798's threads is bullshit.
Stating "1h can't kill lance cav", is different that "1h can't outreach lancecav".
If you get killed by 1H while using a lance on horseback you are moron and should play something different.
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Were you not just muted? Keep making valuable threads like this and eventually it will be 4 a very long time mate. This is you just spitting random stuff, not a well argumented and proved point. You do know what a proper argument consists out of? Do you?
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Were you not just muted? Keep making valuable threads like this and eventually it will be 4 a very long time mate. This is you just spitting random stuff, not a well argumented and proved point. You do know what a proper argument consists out of? Do you?
I know that those ZOMG NERF 1H STAB BECAUSE I AM A MORON AND TRY TO BUMP SLASH ON HORSE are not any more valuable.
Get this: I will not let myself be run over and be slashed to death because some people claim that 1H should be completely helpless against cav.
My thread is practically:
Stop QQing and man up cav.
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It is your goddamn fault if you want to horse-bump-slash them, if you werent stupid, and turned a little while releasing your attack, you wouldnt get hit.
The 1h stab still outreaches a slashing weapon from horseback, even when you go for range instead of bump (depending on the weapons being used of course).
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The 1h stab still outreaches a slashing weapon from horseback, even when you go for range instead of bump (depending on the weapons being used of course).
Depends on what weapon you use.
The problem is that you are higher above ground, which means that your reach is reduced. you are practically using your horse as meatshield.
However using weapons like arabian cavalry sword will give you enough reach to slash people off horse without getting hurt.
My point is that when you charge at someone on horse head on, you are asking to have your horse killed.
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In cRPG the lancing angle is equal to the couched lance angle, 70 degrees iirc. Anything slightly to the left or right cannot be hit.
I didnt know that you are talking about couching angle. As far as I know, you can also use lance normally using LMB.
Can´t you read? "Lancing angle(LMB) = couched lance angle"
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Can´t you read? "Lancing angle(LMB) = couched lance angle"
Do I seriously need to explain what is the difference between COUCHED LANCE AND PLAIN NORMAL LMB POLEARM ATTACK?
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Do I seriously need to explain what is the difference between COUCHED LANCE AND PLAIN NORMAL LMB POLEARM ATTACK?
have you even played as polearm cavalry since 2010?
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have you even played as polearm cavalry since 2010?
Ok ok, Ill try it the other way. open crpg launcher start the game, pick your cav character, and ride around a few rounds, and try the difference between using a couched lance attack and normal LMB attack. LMB attack is easier to aim and has much broader turning radius.
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I know that those ZOMG NERF 1H STAB BECAUSE I AM A MORON AND TRY TO BUMP SLASH ON HORSE are not any more valuable.
Get this: I will not let myself be run over and be slashed to death because some people claim that 1H should be completely helpless against cav.
My thread is practically:
Stop QQing and man up cav.
your stupidity cause in me such emotions that to describe that we need....
no i cant describe that, I am not fuking William Shakespeare.
get yours shit together
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I played cav you know, so I know too how fast horses turn, and I tell you, your opinion that it is nearly impossible to navigate around and get yourself in favourable position to strike (not to mention with a longer weapon and at higher speed), is completely false. If you cannot do it, then train harder.
My opinion is not that it is nearly impossible to navigate around. I used to play cav (1h/pole hybrid with lance) almost exclusively, and used to be one of these lancers topping the scoreboards when better lancers weren't around. But playing cav right now is extremely unfair. Due to minimal horse agility, once you commit to an attack your fate is in the hands of others, not of yourself. Players that shine as both cav and inf have very strong incentives to play inf considering cav depends much more on how crappy your enemies are rather than how good you are yourself, on top of all the other disadvantages.
Maybe you dont realize that most of the archers on c-rpg cant even hit a horse. Most of them have problem to calculate how much will the arrow arc in flight, let alone shooting a horse.
lolno
If you want to turn this into realism discussion, you must also realize that speeding horse that is hit in its leg while in gallop will fall over and there is high chance that it will break its neck. Regardless of that, hitting an armored horse in its leg while it is running is pretty hard.
I don't want to bring realism into this. You are the one using realism arguments to justify that heavy horses are marginally more survivable, which is a fact of the mod.
I disagree, but my disagreement comes from fact that cav players in this game cant execute head on cavalry formation lance charges.
Hence why charge formations are irrelevant, and only theoritically effective. This is an argument in favor of my point, that cav in cRPG is about sneaking up on people.
I didnt know that you are talking about couching angle. As far as I know, you can also use lance normally using LMB.
Can´t you read? "Lancing angle(LMB) = couched lance angle"
Do I seriously need to explain what is the difference between COUCHED LANCE AND PLAIN NORMAL LMB POLEARM ATTACK?
You can't read. We are talking about the ANGLE
Yeah well playing cav requires you to change your tactics. you must be oportunitist, you must take an advantage of your speed and play cautiously.
Do that, and you will prosper.
That's exactly my point about cav's only quality being the superior ability to backstab. Change class to 2h or pole and you will prosper much more with much less effort.
BTW I think your point about 1h stab not needing any change is correct, but the views of some cav players represent such a small part of the population, I don't think it's worth discussing it that extensively.
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Let us go back to the origin of the thread.
This thread I originally wrote because of warlord moaning how easily can 1H kill cav, and because personally I am sick of cavalry moaning about 1H stabbing their horses when they, instead of atacking by riding next to them, will just foolishly try to run over the 1H infantry and expect to easily kill them.
As I said if you are rolling your horse right in front of someone with their stab ready, you are asking for it.
Now there are those who think that 1H can easily kill lancer.
However if you are not stupid, you know how to position yourself in such way that they have no chance.
Not a single 1H weapon can outreach lance if the one using the lance is charging at them. Getting stuck in terrain is something different, but taht is your fault.
Personally I was never able to kill a cav player charging at me with lance, how do you people do it?
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Personally I was never able to kill a cav player charging at me with lance, how do you people do it?
assuming that it´s not couched lance:
1.Block down
2.Turn your horse in front of lancers horse and make it rear
3.Spam wildly with sword
4. ???
5. PROFIT!!
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assuming that it´s not couched lance:
1.Block down
2.Turn your horse in front of lancers horse and make it rear
3.Spam wildly with sword
4. ???
5. PROFIT!!
Christ on the bike I am talking here about Playing 1H infantry and killing a lancer omg.
EDIT: About making lancers horse rear, GL doing that without your horse getting skewered.
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If you get killed by 1H while using a lance on horseback you are moron and should play something different.
Mr. nightASSmare do u know what is chamber ? chamber is easy mode for any lance.. i could pull out 8 chambers out of 10 trys, good players can do it like 10/10... cav is only good for back stabing and that's it lol
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Christ on the bike I am talking here about Playing 1H infantry and killing a lancer omg.
In that case just side step and slash to feet of horse. I don´t see how it would be too difficult? Sometimes works as planned, sometimes doesn´t.
Also why so upset? Too low sugar?
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Mr. nightASSmare do u know what is chamber ? chamber is easy mode for any lance.. i could pull out 8 chambers out of 10 trys, good players can do it like 10/10... cav is only good for back stabing and that's it lol
Timing a chamber against a galloping guy with a long lance with readied attack?
GL
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In that case just side step and slash to feet of horse. I don´t see how it would be too difficult? Sometimes works as planned, sometimes doesn´t.
Also why so upset? Too low sugar?
I am not upset, I am just getting tired of people moaning about getting killed by 1H stab when riding their horse head-on on it.
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Timing a chamber against a galloping guy with a long lance with readied attack?
GL
get good
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Timing a chamber against a galloping guy with a long lance with readied attack?
GL
I know loads of players that can do it easily, me being one of them.
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Have you ever played cav/1h? 50/50 the 1h will get in a hit no matter how you position yourself. They can easily step aside from the LMB or couch lance and stab the rear end of the horse. Even more ridicolous is the daggers, there is no chance in hell to kill them with a lance
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Have you ever played cav/1h? 50/50 the 1h will get in a hit no matter how you position yourself. They can easily step aside from the LMB or couch lance and stab the rear end of the horse. Even more ridicolous is the daggers, there is no chance in hell to kill them with a lance
Those are the build issues. This game allows for builds with ridiculously high movement speed. However, dodging like that with 18/18 build, shield and heraldic tunic over mail is not that easy.
And yes I played 1H cav with spathion and arabian cav sword and I can tell you it is easy to fight 1H inf unless they are uber agi whores. All you have to do is not to try to run over them and slash (which most 1H cav do and they pay for it), but instead you must utilize the reach of your weapon to maximum potential.
However if they are unavare of you, you can ride them down to your hearts content, because there is not danger that they would hit you.
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The sad thing is, 99% of balance threads are due to Tydeus refusing to nerf 2h stab and the subsequent adjustments to everything else.
I still think higher polearm wpf should allow for a wider lancing angle, at this point we can tell the damage is not too high to allow this. Keep in mind, the wider angle of the bit, the lower speed bonus (tangents and stuff)
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The sad thing is, 99% of balance threads are due to Tydeus refusing to nerf 2h stab and the subsequent adjustments to everything else.
I still think higher polearm wpf should allow for a wider lancing angle, at this point we can tell the damage is not too high to allow this. Keep in mind, the wider angle of the bit, the lower speed bonus (tangents and stuff)
That, and they need their backs fixed. Many times it happened to me that I had my lance aimed well, but my character suddenly turned in completely different way.
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You are an ignorant idiot and you have been wasting other player's time with your idiotic ideas no one cares about for too long.
Auto -1 from me for every post.
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You are an ignorant idiot and you have been wasting other player's time with your idiotic ideas no one cares about for too long.
Auto -1 from me for every post.
likewise my friend.
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Timing a chamber against a galloping guy with a long lance with readied attack?
GL
It's literally the easiest kind of chamberblock.
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When did horses get melee?
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I read so much bullshit in the threat about horses, stabs and stuff. As 1h on horseback for over 3 years, let me get you clear a pair of things:
1st: Stab doesnt outreach a slash attack. That is just simple bullshit. What you can do is tricking the enemy so you get closer than his slash in the last moment and stab. Sure thing its not something "easy to do". Its not that his "swing is shorter" its just htat the stabber will try to hit the slasher before his sword makes the full movement. If he fails he will get hit for tons of damage. Indeed, a 2h always have the edge in a combat vs a horse with 1h, even a 1h on ground. Just a bit of footwork and you kill 99% of riders (included me). Speed works both ways, sometimes it allows you to kill some guy, other times just dont allow you to avoid an attack.
2nd: 1h cavalry actually KILLS lancer cavalry. At least if you got the skills, if you dont kill him.. well you gonna make his life miserable coz you gonna be in his back for the rest of the round. (the spinning nerf on horseback is the lamest nerf ever made in this game i would say). In the past, lancing on horseback required skill. Nowadays is lame and just require some planning and picking unaware targets. The fact you cant trick the enemy with your "attack angle" means there is only on way of killing someone. So predictable. So, its this or taking an arab gay horse. This horse kinda counters the effect of the nerf, since it allows you to circle in a split second.
Just that. Btw, what kafein says is true. Going on horseback is mostly a handicap than an advantage in nowaday's crpg. Any player who is decent will perform much better on ground. Still, even being 1h forever, i admit 2h is best class still (i play all classes btw, even selfnerfed alts).
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I read so much bullshit in the threat about horses, stabs and stuff. As 1h on horseback for over 3 years, let me get you clear a pair of things:
1st: Stab doesnt outreach a slash attack. That is just simple bullshit. What you can do is tricking the enemy so you get closer than his slash in the last moment and stab. Sure thing its not something "easy to do". Its not that his "swing is shorter" its just htat the stabber will try to hit the slasher before his sword makes the full movement. If he fails he will get hit for tons of damage. Indeed, a 2h always have the edge in a combat vs a horse with 1h, even a 1h on ground. Just a bit of footwork and you kill 99% of riders (included me). Speed works both ways, sometimes it allows you to kill some guy, other times just dont allow you to avoid an attack.
2nd: 1h cavalry actually KILLS lancer cavalry. At least if you got the skills, if you dont kill him.. well you gonna make his life miserable coz you gonna be in his back for the rest of the round. (the spinning nerf on horseback is the lamest nerf ever made in this game i would say). In the past, lancing on horseback required skill. Nowadays is lame and just require some planning and picking unaware targets. The fact you cant trick the enemy with your "attack angle" means there is only on way of killing someone. So predictable. So, its this or taking an arab gay horse. This horse kinda counters the effect of the nerf, since it allows you to circle in a split second.
Just that. Btw, what kafein says is true. Going on horseback is mostly a handicap than an advantage in nowaday's crpg. Any player who is decent will perform much better on ground. Still, even being 1h forever, i admit 2h is best class still (i play all classes btw, even selfnerfed alts).
Only accurate thing you said was about 2h outranging a horseman with a 1h.
Of course a 1h infantry stab outreaches a cavalry 1h slash. The fuck are you smoking?
Only way 1h cavalry kills lancers is if they down block, and the lancer doesn't get a good hit on their horse, and they cut off the lancer's horse (rearing it). Then they sometimes get a good hit in. Usually I still get away in these situations with minor damage to horse (never to me) or blocking their swing entirely. If they block my horse it's usually only if they have teammates around that it gets me killed. Otherwise I never worry about 1h cav when I'm lancing from horse.
As a 13th gen lancer cav, the "nerf" to radius with lance is a good change and was important. It was pretty silly to be stabbing directly behind your horse's hind legs. I think it would be cool to be able to switch your grip on the lance from underhand to overhand and be able to increase the radius and stab "down".
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Only accurate thing you said was about 2h outranging a horseman with a 1h.
Of course a 1h infantry stab outreaches a cavalry 1h slash. The fuck are you smoking?
Only way 1h cavalry kills lancers is if they down block, and the lancer doesn't get a good hit on their horse, and they cut off the lancer's horse (rearing it). Then they sometimes get a good hit in. Usually I still get away in these situations with minor damage to horse (never to me) or blocking their swing entirely. If they block my horse it's usually only if they have teammates around that it gets me killed. Otherwise I never worry about 1h cav when I'm lancing from horse.
As a 13th gen lancer cav, the "nerf" to radius with lance is a good change and was important. It was pretty silly to be stabbing directly behind your horse's hind legs. I think it would be cool to be able to switch your grip on the lance from underhand to overhand and be able to increase the radius and stab "down".
What the fuck are you talking about, You say i only said a thing "right" but its something i didnt even say?. And you claim I smoke stuff?. See, you are showing how ignorant you are. And again. 1h on horseback eats lancers for breakfast but those in an arab horse. You can ask. I have stabed thousands and thousands of riders with lances while just using a 1h without even a shield. "as a 13 generation lancer bla bla bla bla". So what?. Im gen 21 1h and sum over 30 gens playing all classes and?. Btw, the nerf was retarded, and if you ever saw a guy with a lance on a horse (in rl) you will figure how much of a disabled persons are riders in crpg.
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What the fuck are you talking about, You say i only said a thing "right" but its something i didnt even say?. And you claim I smoke stuff?. See, you are showing how ignorant you are. And again. 1h on horseback eats lancers for breakfast but those in an arab horse. You can ask. I have stabed thousands and thousands of riders with lances while just using a 1h without even a shield. "as a 13 generation lancer bla bla bla bla". So what?. Im gen 21 1h and sum over 30 gens playing all classes and?. Btw, the nerf was retarded, and if you ever saw a guy with a lance on a horse (in rl) you will figure how much of a disabled persons are riders in crpg.
you said a 2h always have the edge in a combat vs a horse with 1h, even a 1h on ground. Just a bit of footwork and you kill 99% of riders (included me)
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you said
Having an edge in a combat doesnt mean "outreaching", its just having the odds to win in your side... meh...