cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => The Chamber of Tears => Topic started by: Jona on November 19, 2013, 04:38:15 am

Title: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Jona on November 19, 2013, 04:38:15 am
When I saw that DTV got two new waves myself and several friends all rushed to DTV to check it out. Needless to say, any excitement we all had died within the first wave of peasants. Maps went from:

(click to show/hide)


To:

(click to show/hide)


Can't get on buildings, ranged is useless. Don't  have room to move, agility builds are useless. All bots die in 1 - 2 good hits, strength builds are useless. Ranged on bots nerfed, shielders are useless.

So why, exactly, did you have to kill dtv? As of now it is nothing but a great 2hander S key practice mode.
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Clockworkkiller on November 19, 2013, 04:42:28 am
Wow Jona

DTV qqing

Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Lethwin Far Seeker on November 19, 2013, 04:47:28 am
Hear hear!  I liked the idea of a few maps in rotation that were more stucture oriented (V is located within manor that you have to defend) but the invisible walls and bot funneling has killed the mode.
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Clockworkkiller on November 19, 2013, 04:47:51 am
I can't even play DTV anymore as it's been ruined by certain people
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: StonedSteel on November 19, 2013, 04:48:46 am
lol...good job for bitching jona....people need to hear about the invisible walls....

but then u went full retard and said str was useless?

now look where the thread is



never go full retard
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Jona on November 19, 2013, 05:01:17 am
Yeah, strength is the only viable thing left. Just makes for a better headline if I say it's all useless.   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: pingpong on November 19, 2013, 07:28:16 am
Yeah i dont really get this game mode anymore, and the  3rd L'oreal de suprupruu bots wave with good armor, coursers and xbows is just  :shock:
Are these srsly supposed to be easier than the vikings`? i think not!

And about maps, this helms deep DTV map pictured below is really the worst i've yet to come across, mounted bots just get stuck with horses and the invisible walls are everywhere, cant even go behind the ladders or acces them from the wall, just ridiculous.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Dermik on November 20, 2013, 10:46:31 pm
Lol those mappers take their job too seriously. This is fun mode(was), not a fucking ... I don't know what...
But yeah i am a mapper too and it is easy to remember ONE important tip about mapping. NEVER FORGET ABOUT PLAYERS,FPS,GAMEPLAY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FUN. in this case it is 2times more important about the fun. So what is the point of all these walls and nonplayable changes? Campers? Ahhh won't go there ... This is just ridiculous and sad at once.
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Nehvar on December 13, 2013, 02:23:11 am
DTV is pretty damn boring now.  Sure it now has better xp/gold than battle/siege for those who aren't constantly on the right side of the auto-unbalancer...but isn't the point to have fun?
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: defodijabox on December 13, 2013, 02:27:38 am
I think DTV is still pretty fun, for example if I rage off battle or something because of ranged I can go mindlessly slaughter bots for a while in DTV, which is pretty fun for a while, no way I could do it for too long though.

I definitely think it's more fun than it used to be sometimes because a lot of maps would end up in 1 or 2 pikers hiding behind a fence or in a hut killing a bunch of enemies, and that was no fun to watching them sloowwwwwwly kill the enemies for like 10 minutes
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 13, 2013, 02:31:27 am
Quote from: defodijabox on December 13, 2013, 02:27:38 am
I definitely think it's more fun than it used to be sometimes because a lot of maps would end up in 1 or 2 pikers hiding behind a fence or in a hut killing a bunch of enemies, and that was no fun to watching them sloowwwwwwly kill the enemies for like 10 minutes

They did that because it was effective, and it worked.

The way it is now with the invisible fucking walls corralling every fuck together into one giant orgy fest is uttter bullshit

Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: defodijabox on December 13, 2013, 02:36:08 am
Quote from: Clockworkkiller on December 13, 2013, 02:31:27 am
They did that because it was effective, and it worked.

The way it is now with the invisible fucking walls corralling every fuck together into one giant orgy fest is uttter bullshit

And it wasn't bullshit before that pikers could glitch like that and get all of the enemies stuck on a fence? Why wouldn't they just run by and go kill the virgin after they realized that they couldn't reach the piker behind the fence? Because it was a glitch.

It's still dumb how they're corralled into one area but at least more people can participate, and shieldwalls were a legit tactic used for centuries, hiding behind fences loling at enemies wasn't

Also the same goes for now, it's effective and it works, your logic is illogical.
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 13, 2013, 02:55:26 am
Quote from: defodijabox on December 13, 2013, 02:36:08 am
And it wasn't bullshit before that pikers could glitch like that and get all of the enemies stuck on a fence? Why wouldn't they just run by and go kill the virgin after they realized that they couldn't reach the piker behind the fence? Because it was a glitch.
it wasn't, it was tactics, bot AI is complete shit, pulling enemies with ledges and fences was how you got to tins and won, you didn't meet the horde of cav on the open field because that was bad strategy, you hunkered down and got somewhere safe so you weren't ass-raped by 50 mauls, or magic headshot bots

It's still dumb how they're corralled into one area but at least more people can participate, and shieldwalls were a legit tactic used for centuries, hiding behind fences loling at enemies wasn't
what if there aren't many shielders on? what about the 2handers who now have barely any cover from the shitty bot ranged spam? wait about archers? they are completely vulnerable now, pikers? have fun trying to work in that tiny space, I  could go on, but Im really not in the mood, everyone could participate before. maybe if you didn't die, you can join those 1 or 2 pikers

Also the same goes for now, it's effective and it works, your logic is illogical.
no it doesn't, if it worked, why is everyone complaining about it?

EDIT: so now just downvote my post and run away like a bitch because you know im right
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: defodijabox on December 13, 2013, 03:07:54 am
No it's just not worth it to keep arguing over something pointless. You're not gonna change your mind and neither am I. There's infinite subjective evidence for both arguments. Also you're a furry.
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Butan on December 13, 2013, 03:13:09 am
Havent been playing DTV a lot lately, whats happening exactly?
The only maps in rotationhave no space where you can stuck bots, nor roofs to pewpew from?

Its a bit the same on the other gamemodes: the mapping strategy is really going FULL RETARD BALANCE, killing all the fun we could have had.
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Jona on December 13, 2013, 04:43:03 am
Personally, I couldn't care less about not having XP shacks, or fences so much as not having room to maneuver. One of my favorite maps was a small little village with a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE open space in front of it right across a trench where the enemies spawned... and I mean it was huge. Barely any trees or rocks, perfectly flat, and no exploitable fences or rooftops nearby. Now, as u get into the village, there were a couple of rooftops, a fence, and a shack that you could in theory abuse. The map was honestly quite awesome if you indeed wanted to win. But you rarely got far on that map cuz it is just so fun to charge out onto that open field - heck, even against cav - and slaughter or be slaughtered. Its just ~20 dudes charging ~45 head on... and usually coming out victorious. Then come wave 2 it is much less organized, you have heavy casualties on your side, you are disoriented after running through the thick of it... and then the next wave is upon you before you even remember where the bots spawn from. Rinse and repeat for some of the most epic, fun-inducing, nerdy-movie-esque moments that you can have in this game.

So... with this new DTV, what do you do when you charge the enemy? Yeah... S key and/or die. The only maps where charging is even an option would be that Thermopylae-styled one or that ballista firing squad map. Some maps you literally can't even charge because the enemy spawns just outside your little castle or village, and of course there is a wall in the way, and once inside the castle there is not nearly a large enough courtyard to round up all the stragglers that make it through your shieldwall. If your shieldwall breaks, which it always will, sooner or later, you have no chance at redemption. The 2h / polearm / swashbuckling heroes are just useless nowadays. It's all shield or gtfo. Maps need room for the non-shielders to pull enemies. Otherwise they just sit afk behind a shieldwall until the enemy crushes it and then shortly thereafter crushes the unlucky lads who went from having no enemies to face to having 40 in all of 1 second.

Also,

Quote from: defodijabox on December 13, 2013, 02:36:08 am
shieldwalls were a legit tactic used for centuries

while being true does not apply here at all. In reality there are certain things like momentum, and if you had 40 guys charging into a shieldwall of maybe 4 guys, well, those 4 unlucky lads are utterly screwed. It is no different than hiding behind a fence or on a rooftop. In real life someone can hop a fence, yes, we all acknowledge that. In real life someone could climb onto a low rooftop (since after all, you did get on it somehow in the game). But unfortunately bots are not smart enough for either. There is no difference between hiding behind a fence than hiding behind a shieldwall. With 4 - 5 shielders lined up, thats a shitton of shield skill bonus. No ones shield is breaking anytime soon unless you are dumb enough to let a peasant with a practice shield stand amongst you. The only time I have seen shieldwalls fail is because someone gets overly aggressive (cuz, u know, its boring as fuck just sitting there) and gets killed, or there is a gap in the wall large enough for enemies to trickle though.

I would argue that hiding behind a fence or on a rooftop is far less exploitative, and also allows for people to have more fun. When behind a fence, or on a rooftop, you are exposed should you not find yourself holding a shield in front of you. Enemy ranged can actually affect you, unlike when you are behind a wall of shields. As we all know, the AI's pew pew is an aimbot, and a pretty good one. Hence, if you are out in the open on a roof, and don't bring along a trusty shielder, you are screwed.


Quote from: defodijabox on December 13, 2013, 02:36:08 am
It's still dumb how they're corralled into one area but at least more people can participate

Lol. No. Just no. Clearly you have no experience with the old DTV and are one of these new DTV heroes who show up just to power level. In the old DTV, even on the most exploitative of maps, where you've got maybe 3 pikers in a shack on Istiniar, EVERYONE was participating, save for any leechers. You had the few guys piking from the shack, all the ranged was in the hay bale / barn thingy, and any other melee would float around... would have many behind the shack (where nowadays you would find a shieldwall) in a line to get any bots that sneak past. There would also be other melee guys hiding in the side alley, waiting for a chance to run out and take down the bots' ranged. Might also have guys at the virgin / viscount as a last resort, in case some bots tried to ninja from the far left. But nowadays bots don't ninja since they all come from one, maybe 2 directions tops. On the old istiniar map, the whole left side was open... both AI and players alike could travel there... it wasn't just an L-shaped funnel like it is now. Why on earth after butchering the shack and barn they had to go an make the entire map a funnel is beyond me. There was nothing wrong with having the left side and the alleyway open up. It even adds for more tactics, as well as more dynamic actions taken by the bots. But no, I am sure that we can somehow exploit open space, so of course it needs to be removed from all maps.


GG easy-grind loving scene editors. Way to kill an entire game mode.
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: defodijabox on December 13, 2013, 05:09:55 am
Yeah you're right I didn't really play very much old DTV, and I still don't play much new DTV, but I have had some pretty great times on both when I have played them.

Reading your post it seems like the best way to make DTV better would be to add back in some of the old maps (like the field one you were talking about) and getting rid of the plain imbalanced maps (blank_11), though there are some pretty fun maps with new DTV that are balanced.

(click to show/hide)

Still think that fences are bullshit and the most exploitative though, no matter what you say.
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: Clockworkkiller on December 13, 2013, 05:18:38 am
Mad cuz a furry just proved you're stupid
Title: Re: You can't run and you can't hide
Post by: protox2k on December 13, 2013, 05:30:57 am
Quote from: Jona on November 19, 2013, 04:38:15 am
When I saw that DTV got two new waves myself and several friends all rushed to DTV to check it out. Needless to say, any excitement we all had died within the first wave of peasants. Maps went from:

(click to show/hide)


To:

(click to show/hide)


Can't get on buildings, ranged is useless. Don't  have room to move, agility builds are useless. All bots die in 1 - 2 good hits, strength builds are useless. Ranged on bots nerfed, shielders are useless.

So why, exactly, did you have to kill dtv? As of now it is nothing but a great 2hander S key practice mode.

Well Jona they didn't kill dtv they just made it better! First off str will always get the job done in dtv no matter what. Agi/balance builds are pretty good there too. The good thing about the new maps it's rarer for bots to get stuck and to have people leech at the V without any knowing until they are the last one alive. The new maps become boring when a shield wall is made and the rest of us have to sit back and wait. Almost forgot to mention range is how it should be. Be great-full for the super retarded buff it got.

The ballista plz keep! maybe add more shit to shoot with

Add more maps with bots coming from multiple directions like arena :D

Finally, this is the most biased post I've seen in awhile.visitors can't see pics , please register or login