Allways wait for your shield to get hit before attacking. You can feint too, but first make sure your opponent isn't spamming. If the opponent spams, it's even easier. Just wait for the hit and do a left swing (will usually hit the head, a deadly attack).
@MrNicklebe i also noticed that from a higher position in rare cases the overhead attack goes through the shield, does it go through 2h overhead blocks , too?
I love to jump kamikaze style into a crowd(prefered from a building while i havent been spotted), perhaps i even kill someone while spamming attacks(wakasashi any short weapon), but even more important
you harrases them to a point that they blindly attack and i had the situation of 3 provoked tk's that way :twisted:
sometimes i even get out alive and get an e******** :lol:
Is it a good playing style? Perhaps not, but take one for the team and i heard, in love and war annything goes.
But to me the best shielder build would be a somehow light armor, only 6 PS and rest Agi, high shield skill and athletics. Carry a scimi for cloth, a pick/hammer for armor, and a pike/spear of some sort. (no polearm wpf though)Well 6 PS means 18 str. That's a balanced build at best, with the softcap at level 30.
being a sword and boarder is not hard by itself , but you need to know how your opponents are playing , like a good pitcher in baseball , you have to get info on all your enemies , their feints , their tactics , what they do to get you offguard , also learn to fight calculating the length of the weapons ( very important ) so you can hit and move away from the range ( with decent athletics )
Yeah choose your battles wisely and always have the min power strike, ironflesh, agil, wpf, for ur character and his weapon. Also chadz made weapons for all types of scenarios so keep a full inventory when in battle or bring 2 shields.
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Three possibilities:
-You have very-very low agility (something like below 9)
-You were going up against an incredibly agi- and wpf-stacked ninja. This in unlikely now with the softcap.
-You are doing something wrong.
blocking with shield seems to slow down your counter strike more than blocking with weapon.
I find myself further and further disadvantaged the more I play my 1 handed plus shield build. I have severe problems with long ranged melee weapons, most 2 handers and polearms. I cannot 1v1 them, as they out-range me, and move fast enough to stay out of my range. I've had my Huscarl shield broken many times now, because, even with 7 athletics, I can't move with my shield as fast as they can just back up, while constantly smacking me. I'm simply never in range for a hit.
Not only that, weapons with reach that I can use deal hardly any damage, compared to theirs. I feel that shields might mostly be dead.
Well, my friend, if the date in your nick is your birth year, then it is also a matter of reflex.
Ironflesh is a luxury. If you play a pure sword and boarder, imo you should just get PS, Athletics and WM as high as you can, shield skill to whatever you/your shield desire (personally, I go with 5), and turn as many skill points into attributes as possible. If you can squeeze in another level of the aforementioned skills by level 30, you will have an undeniable advantage.
Yeah, there are a lot of ninjas out there cooking a very special kind of meat. The only chance you got against them is also go light armor, so that they can't back up faster than you're closing in (get a different shield, huscarls is too heavy and slow), then get them with your left swing while you push past their left side. Works for me, except against real ninjas like Thomek or Khorin. They can block, and are much higher level than me, so I'm screwed facing them anyway.
so the build you are suggesting here would look like this?For a strength build, that looks solid. I'd personally go with balanced, more athletics can be quite an edge. But really, that's just personal preference.
so the build you are suggesting here would look like this?
* Shield: 5
@Wiglaf: You won't get 165 WPF with 5 WM anymore. I have 6 WM and only got to 154 WPF. Because of the diminishing returns, WM5 is enough, i'd say, unless you want to make a hybrid, so your build actually looks pretty good.thanks for the headsup! i wish there would be full disclosure on the new formulas and an updated calculator...
I wouldn't do that because raising and lowering your shield depends a lot on this skill.i currently have shield 5 and a huscarl and i rarely notice any problems with getting up the shield fast enough. Rarely...
Okay i don't have a high level 1h/shield char yet (22) but i always favoured speed > damage
So 18/18 the way to go!
Another thing I saw was a guy engaging an enemy shielder with a chambered leftslash and just as he is about to lower his shield make a quick step to the left, turn a slight little bit to the right and release: voila, circumvented the shield.
I wouldn't do that because raising and lowering your shield depends a lot on this skill.Unfortunately, only raising the shield is effected by the shield skill, lowering is not.
Okay i don't have a high level 1h/shield char yet (22) but i always favoured speed > damage
So 18/18 the way to go!
Something wrong with wpf? Allers has an all str build and has 100 wpf in 2h. Is this correct? I believe when reset happened I had a lot of wpf also :/
With all the tips in this thread you should be well on your way. And it was helpful to me aswell :twisted:Which is why I will destroy it.
Though I am sorely tempted to try 18 str on the next retirement. I feel like I shouldn't have to hit someone twice with a military pickNo questions from you, but I don't get lots of love either that is from others NO don't even think about it okay and don't play dumb with me.
Unfortunately, only raising the shield is effected by the shield skill, lowering is not.You are not human but you learn and think(sorta) like one.
The biggest advantage of a strength build in battles and during sieges is the little amount of hits required to kill opponents. You can run up and down a wall while slashing at stuff around you and most will drop dead in 1 or 2 hits (NCS/Steel Pick/Broad 1h battle axe). As an agility build you're much deadlier in 1v1 fights, but the problem is that you don't always have time for that and fights often get interrupted.No answering question with a question, what is the sound of one hand clapping?
It's cool if you can hit 4-6 guys before going down, but if you didn't kill anyone it's a wasted effort.
If fighting an agi spamming 2hander you need to do more then turn your body into the swing, cause he's doing the same thing. You must physically move ,as in, CIRCLE him as you swing. My 1hander uses a huscarl and a nordic champions, I only recently got 15 agi. I am not able to return every attack, instead I wait for a pause in his atk pattern or when I am in a better position to strike.I wouldn't say a puppet, most people, do the same thing. They are only able to repeat information, they can't really understand it.
Though I am sorely tempted to try 18 str on the next retirement. I feel like I shouldn't have to hit someone twice with a military pick. ;)
I'd recommend going 21/15 instead. I had 145 WPF with WM5 and 154 with WM6, which is not really worth it. With 21/15 you can have +5HP and +2 Pierce damage with your pick. Maybe even go 21/12 first, and if you are fast enough, aim for 24/12. With 24 Str, you could have 62 HP and do almost 56 pierce damage. Agi stackers would die in 1 hit, all of them.
@Toldfield i tried the technics you descriped i got a little better but it still needs lots more of training before i get that into my patterns inscribed. From your last post i could conclude several thing , your a funny guy or a crazy person or a wise (wo)man or a free combination of the former. Whatever thanks for your input it brings my little grey cells to work.Admitting to you that I believe i am crazy would mean I believe you to be a conscious mind.
Admitting to you that I believe i am crazy would mean I believe you to be a conscious mind.
Who is dervik west?
The most expensive 1h sword isn't the best. Most expensive 2h is arguably the best (kinda slow but massive reach), most expensive polearm is the best (elegantlolaxe). Playing 1h char with side sword feels kinda gimped. It's awfully short, seems even shorter than those 95 length imply, damage is ok but nothing epic and speed is good but not as fast as katana. I've tried using it without shield (it was on my back) and both katana and hafted blade swing faster. I have 15 str, 17 agi and 100 wpf in 1h and 1 wpf in 2H and poles. It's much easier playing with 2h or poles, manual blocking and waiting for your chance to attack than facehugging enemies with this awfully short and expensive side sword. And if I see axeman of some kind or maul I'm basically screwed. Yeah I can try to manual block them with my side sword but guess what, it ain't working as good as with 2H or polearms. Must be something to do with shortness of weapon and low weight. Bottom line is, 1h gimped, side sword is expensive crap and I have it balanced. Before the patch playing 1H char was way easier, now it's something I'll leave to patient and very skilled players. Next stop, polearms. They seem versatile and hella lot faster than site says.
I forgot to mention that hybrids are crap now, everyone who converted many points and made SPECIFIC build, will own any hybrid easily. I had no problem playing hybrids before the big patch. Right now I feel like crap as a hybrid, tried it for two gens (first was 2h + 1h, failed build I know) and now it's archer + 1h.
Also, only hybrids, archers and ninjas wear light armor. Specific imba builds wear good armor or some kind of plate, one 2h or plate weapon and own on the battlefield. Current ownage formula seems to be, buy an coat of plates or something along those lines, best boots, decent helm and get yourself either german greatsword/flamberge/lolmaul/lolmace or german/elegant poleaxe or long bardiche.
I have to ask you kinn grimm, how can you kill anything with PS3?
The most expensive 1h sword isn't the best.sidesword is truely not a weapon of choice if you want to have the longest ... weapon, but it is versatile and balanced in its own for technics i am used to go for, meaning, i have very high athletics and can move in and out inbetween the attack animations of strength based builds, espially 2h/polarm. But you could be right that those seem to be faster now then before the patch. What i am saying is the same as Kalam, it depends on playstyle, i tried the long espada and i just couldn't handle it, i was far better off with a wakasashi :twisted:
.... Next stop, polearms. They seem versatile and hella lot faster than site says.
.... I forgot to mention that hybrids are crap now.
.... Also, only hybrids, archers and ninjas wear light armor.
.... Current ownage formula
I have to ask you kinn grimm, how can you kill anything with PS3?
2) You get to be an excellent support character, which is always crucial when I'm playing with my clanmates- which is where most of my fun comes from.Excellent point, As a shielder i do block strikes every now and then that would have not blocked, propably killed a teammate. I see a friendly horse coming down not far away, and the 2h guy who brought him down prepares to finish him, i just go in either with shields up, the cav man now foottrooper can recover and we take his former nemesis down together. You have to be a master of 2h/polearm blocking to do the same without shield, but sure possible too. Difference is, i know i will survive his first and most likely 2nd attack, the one without shield doesn't for sure. Multiplier saved ;)
Have you tried spamming your attack? Use a fast weopon and dont stop swinging. Block once or twice with the shield moving in fast then get in there close and start swinging. It's cheap, skilless and very effective. Strafe them constantly right up against them - and keep those attacks coming. I'm sure things have changed a little since patch, but spam ftw hands down. Let the ones who cry about spammers be the ones who can't whistle anymore.
Keep on whistling.
I FUCKING LOVE when shielders try to crowd me when Im on 2h char. Thats the OPPOSITE of what they need to do. You cannot get behind a good 2h because they change direction as they attackI am not sure why you quoted Islander. Not in that context, your statement is agreeable to some extent.
...The last point, my point exactly, 1h are faster with their left strike in most cases, if not then the balancing is flawed. OR you created a lot of agi points through converting skill points, in that case ask your self who really wasted something, but then again so did i for myself the same and created about 2-4 Attributepoints depending on build. Good 2h agi builds are a pain, but agi builds either 2h or shield have both the flaw that they need to go for low weight armor, to be mobile and not a sitting duck.
and since thy didn't waste any points on shieldskill, they just have nice speed.
...
you are carrying a big slow thing that doesnt help you....why would you DO that to yourself?
, ... Cyber is only shielder that I fear, in the entire playerbase of crpg. Every other shielder is easykill,...oh there are more good to fantastic out there who would make you problems, Vicouse666, Mortough, Sorokopud are all excellent even without their shield and those are only i can pick right out of my head. But then again it allways depends on playstyle/build/weapon/daily form and many other factors.
EDIT: Mala and Varyag are badass with shield too, but both Cyber and Mala can block manually when needed anyway, shield is just a bonus to them. Varyag, I dont know, never broken his buckler to find out!
...Nah, i can´t (lack of practice ). When i block then it is the attack direction with the highest probability.
EDIT: Mala and Varyag are badass with shield too, but both Cyber and Mala can block manually when needed anyway...
What about the done damage, is there a difference ?
a) between left, right and overhead. The thrust is most likely different because it is no slash, it is pierce damage and the weapon carries different values for that.
b) with and without inertia, moving into the strike. Are there different inertia intensities?
c) where you actually hit the foe. Head, Hands, feet, front or back center. (this must depend on armor in those different places, or is there sth else?)
@ShinySpoons
You said its harder to hit with a right swing to the head, well damn right you are, the only positions i can think of are when you are on higher ground or you try the full range of your weapon and hit him with the outer most part of it, at the end of the attack animation.
Hah! Yeah I forgot about the jump overheadXD I just rarely do it with a 1hander compared to the longer weapons.It is a funny thing, as it is quite hard to aim that way and it happens you stand behind an archer jumping and missing and jumping and missing and you go crazy about it :lol:
This makes it hit the guy faster and increases the speed bonus, thus, increased dmg.
Sorry but that is wrong. You hit him earlier but not faster! You can try it in singleplayer where the speed bonus is shown.
It used to be like that iirc, but it was changed. Only movementspeed adds to the speedbonus, rotation speed does not.
Let me get that straight, atm i rise my weapon to strike, i get slower(the same when i rise my shield)
When i strike then the only damage modifier comes from my speed which just droped because i wanted to strike.
Or do i slow down only if i hold the attack open without striking?
With an jump/overhead attack i even come to a standstill, which is not a problem as long i didn't miss.
Rotation into the strikes direction has no effect on damage but results in stun of the blocking weapon or shield, then, right?
Why has no one mentioned probably the most important thing in playing a shielder?
To all you people saying that you have to hear the sound of the strike hitting the shield to counter-attack: you are wrong. If you wait for the sound you'll get spammed to death, no question about it. Even with a 0 ping if you wait for the sound of the strike hitting the shield to start your attack your opponent will get a second strike in before you do.
Take your character and hold down the block button. Then let go. Now notice that when you let go of your block button your shield does not start lowering immediately, about a third to half a second goes by before the shield begins lowering. This is important as you you will STILL block a strike in the window between you letting go of the block button and the shield lowering. THIS IS HOW YOU ATTACK BACK FAST ENOUGH.
Should have gone for the military pick tbh kinn steel pick is way to short.
I've done well with a steel pick and 4 athletics. It depends on who you fight. When going against phyrex or bjord with a steel pick, you can forget about it.
Overall the military pick is pretty good and a tad bit better than the steel pick.
Made mine Deadly and with 7 athletics and 5 ps its awesome.
Edit: This time round instead of putting wpf into xbow and 1hand its all in 1hand giving me 164 which makes for a meeeean pick.
Never forget that even as a one hander, you can use the length of your weapon. With 7 ath you can probably run back and forth to land unexpected attacks on 2 handers.