cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Thomek on October 17, 2013, 11:56:25 pm

Title: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 17, 2013, 11:56:25 pm
Ok, Paul would like to see if the playerbase is up for something like this. If 80% are for it, it increases the chances of it actually getting implemented.

Here is the idea:

COMMANDER CHAT

Visually would look like this:
(click to show/hide)
A. Give the person with the highest Team Win:Loss ratio (Not K:D ratios) on each team a special Leadership coloured team-chat. (Like, purple or bright green, similar to adminchat) The commander is decided at the beginning of a map.     (This is a score you get when your team wins a round. It reflects how good you are to help your team win)

B. With this he can issue commands with admin coloured text, and the players would be free to follow them or not. In the worst case, people will just ignore it.

C. If his leadership gives results, aka more wins than losses, his W:L ratio will naturally improve (as well as all players on the team), and his chance of staying commander gets better. If he is a bad commander with bad results, either because the team follows him or not, or simply bad commanding or tactical ideas, his score will drop, and someone else will quickly take his spot.

D. Being a commander is optional. Tick a box on the website if you wish to participate.

E. Leaving the game while commanding should result in a double loss to the commanders W:L ratio. (To prevent commanders leaving bad teams)

F. A commander should be able to give away command at the beginning of each round to the next on the list. The result of the round will affect both commanders score. (To give newbie commanders a chance, while still keeping the original commander responsible.)

G. The commander may leave during the first 15 seconds of a new map without hurting his score. (If you want to command, the price is responsibility for the team throughout the map)

H. Who is commanding what team is proclaimed in server message near the beginning of each map and round.

Possible consequences of the idea:

* We might see more organized teamplay like in the old days again. :)    (aka, charges work if done right. I've seen it many times wiping teams back in the day)
* People who aspire to become commanders, would focus on making their team win to improve their ratio, not their individual K:D ratios.
* People who would want to become commanders would most likely want to be popular. As they want people to listen to them.
* Assholes who wants to be commanders will not be listened to, therefore will not have a good commander score (W:L ratio). Asshole commanders will not exist in this system.
* This will idea will let commanders build real credibility supported by numbers. You can question him/her all you want but if he is commandeering, he has the best W:L ratio of your team.
* You could probably check your W:L ratio on the website, and get a clear idea if you help your team win or not.
* Most likely, popular clan players who help their team win will become the first commanders. But c-rpg have low enough population for anyone to be able to get their shot at
commanding. *If they are not for some reason hated or totally unknown among the majority.
* Commander heroes/stars might begin to appear if there will be trusted and smart players out there. These might boost morale, and create more an more complex tactics, as players
become more and more likely to follow them.
* Players might start to accept more complex commands once they have seen effective commanding in practice.
* Players might start to protect the commander, or attack enemy commander if he is especially dangerous.
* cRPG may change. To what, I think no one knows, but I think it would be better. The players that just wants to solo and decide what is best themselves will continue to do so without punishment.
* If it sucks, we can remove the whole system.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thorondor on October 17, 2013, 11:58:44 pm
totally worth a try
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on October 18, 2013, 12:05:15 am
If we want teamwork through chat we are going to need in-game voice me thinks, takes way too long to type out commands etc.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Macropus on October 18, 2013, 12:05:34 am
Quote from: Thomek on October 17, 2013, 11:56:25 pm
A. Give the person with the highest Team Win:Loss ratio (Not K:D ratios) on each team a special Leadership coloured team-chat.
First allow us to see our own win/loss ratios, goddammit!
Should've read the whole post before posting...
PS: nice suggestion.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Wiltzu on October 18, 2013, 12:07:49 am
I'm upvoting the suggestion (worth a try)
But I'm downvoting you Thomek. I hope you get a cancer and die.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 12:10:21 am
@Gravoth
Sure, would be cool, but this here is possible right now. Talking is out of the question to implement technically, unless someone would find a way to program voice software to work with c-rpg..  Commanders would just have to work around it, find a way to communicate. That will definitely be a very important part of their skillset. It's not impossible, Phaz, me and others have done it, but it requires players to get used to it.

@Macro
Once they start tracking those ratios, I'm sure its not a problem to implement.

@Wiltzu
?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Teeth on October 18, 2013, 12:15:58 am
I think this would be nice, a little late but nice. Though I must say that I've managed to make a team on a losing streak win, by a simple 'FOLLOW BATTALION 1 FOR VICTORY' in team chat. The bulk of the team usually reacts and follows me to fight the enemy team head on. It is surprisingly effective, so I can only recommend to others that are frustrated by a losing spree, try some simple commanding. Just some sense of direction gives your team a much better shot.

The fact that people are responsive to basic commanding like that, should bode well for the usefulness of the OP's system.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 18, 2013, 12:16:06 am
As long as there is banner balance the commander will always be someone from byzstacktium or some other gigantic clan, making some people feel even more entitled to be internet generals is a bad idea, teamwork will happen already when a large enough majority of your team gives a fuck, and I've seen far better teamwork than "camp X" on low pop (40 or less) servers between people who don't all know eachother and aren't on teamspeak. Commanding with the Q menu and team chat is already as effective as commanding is gonna be for people who aren't on teamspeak. Advanced commands and reactions that go above "Camp X" or "don't charge x" will also take to long to type, leaving us again with our Q menu, whose commands presumably won't have magic colors, and therefore won't magically be payed attention to.

(I'll vote yes if you agree to make the text color orange)

And Thomek, sure devs can always remove it if it sucks, but our devs don't exactly have eternities of time to dedicate to cRPG, and there is plenty of unfinished shit like the conquest mode, implementing camels, and nudging for them to work on if they have time.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 12:20:58 am
@Zlisch A large enough majority of the team will only give a fuck when they have a commander that they like. (and trust)

Clan stackers will anyway be offset by autobalance to some degree as they all have good scores and gears.

Q menu is used for spam, and useless for commanding.

(Also, this feature doesn't require that much coding and dev time.. Paul might be willing to do it if its popular enough.)

I agree to make it organge, now vote yes.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Kelugarn on October 18, 2013, 12:23:07 am
I'm always up for new features, and this is something that could really improve the overall game play experience. +1.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 18, 2013, 12:24:48 am
Quote from: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 12:20:58 am
A large enough majority of the team will only give a fuck when they have a commander that they like. (and trust)

Clan stackers will anyway be offset by autobalance to some degree as they all have good scores and gears.

Q menu is used for spam, and useless for commanding.
If there is a player a large majority of a team knows and trusts he can already command just fine, issue is it is quite rare that a large majority of a team gives a fuck about teamwork.

Clan stackers will still have far greater average multis than regular people.

You got no idea what you're talking about, sure it is used by spam, but it can be used for commanding, just requires knowing a few commands, and it is WAY faster than typing.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Tzar on October 18, 2013, 12:33:10 am
Why not just implement the old xp/gold system with a few tweaks here n there, then you will see people sticking together again :) The current system is not helping  :mrgreen:

Your idea would have to rely on people wanting to do teamwork, we both know 50% would still run around like headless chickens disregarding the commander  :rolleyes:

PS: Not saying your idea sucks, but just that your guaranteed to see a shitload of more teamwork, with the old xp/gold system. Being solo hero in the old system would get you broke  :lol:
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: LordBerenger on October 18, 2013, 12:47:16 am
Quote from: Tzar on October 18, 2013, 12:33:10 am
Why not just implement the old xp/gold system with a few tweaks here n there, then you will see people sticking together again :) The current system is not helping  :mrgreen:


This guy knows what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Joseph Porta on October 18, 2013, 01:06:44 am
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on October 18, 2013, 12:05:15 am
If we want teamwork through chat we are going to need in-game voice me thinks, takes way too long to type out commands etc.

With a capabable commander he should be the only one talking (about movement) and everyone should bebfollow his directions cause he knows what he does.
The only thing we'd need voices for would be warning left right archer left right cavalry left right etc etc which if im right we already have. What is otherwise the point of having the chat at all, if everyones gonna blurt directions through eachother. Just yes no would do essentially for answering orders are understood and how many as commander are with you followingyour directions. The system could be quite elaborate say you could make a "party chat" with teammates which the commander could select and send a message to you and your party only, clans would be operating as ever BUT be overal guided by the commander.
instead of having several lone wolf packs you would have one big wolf pack who is coordinated by the big wolf, and would be capeable of all kinds of moves and strategys, if theyd work together they could achieve alot. Also party chats would have their own commander their orders only showing their party members.
When the commander dies his rank is moved to say commander part 2,3 etc.
All players not in a party wold automaticly be assigned to the commanders party. The commander could possibly see all commanders as dots onthe map, maybe make it so ha you need atleast 5 men plus yourself to make a party, otherwise thered just be massibe dots everywhere.
Request to join a party, maybe have the party commander get the F1/2 pop up just like bans, accept/decline.
Ofcourse people are not likely to follow the lead exactly but the commanders job would to be stearing the groups of fighters in the right position.
Its just that the commands as commander should be fluid and quick to operate, infantry can warn their buddies with the things we currently have, most likely the commander being elected he'd be a good player so their will be enough infantry around him to keep him off the grid for enemies. All he needs is his guide commands no ten thousand options for cav in the back/right/ left etc simple and easy to operate. Lone wolfs should be able to switch it off, so you dont always have to see the commands that are given and canjust play relaxed foingyour own thing.

Wot...
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Olwen on October 18, 2013, 01:18:26 am
What Teeth said, there's flags. Not as if the commander would give more complicated orders than "stay" "charge" or "follow me" ^^
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on October 18, 2013, 01:19:55 am
I think this is awesome.
Players who are not used to give commands can learn from others who are maybe playing the game for much longer. Even if you are not as good as player you could be a great commander and help your team to victory with your brain.

One question: Siege and Battle or only Battle?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Kalam on October 18, 2013, 01:35:01 am
Seems great. DO EET COMMUNITY.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Vermilion on October 18, 2013, 01:35:38 am
If this gets added please also add an option to hide it (permanently, I don't want to have to disable it every freking map).

Quote
D. Being a commander is optional. Tick a box on the website if you wish to participate.

Such as this, one button for wanting to be a commander, another for wanting to see commands.

There's enough crap spammed in chat and it is very unlikely that the "leader" will have any actual leadership skills which get expressed via the chat system.


I like the command in strategus (via TS) because I can choose which faction to apply for and therefore who will be commanding.
Giving "leadership text" to a random person on a server will just irritate me.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on October 18, 2013, 01:43:19 am
Quote from: Vermilion on October 18, 2013, 01:35:38 am
Giving "leadership text" to a random person on a server will just irritate me.
Its not a random person. It will be someone who already gained some Victorys and who showed that he got some knowledge about tactics and so on. In the first 2 weeks of this there will maybe be some guys who are not that good, but after these starter weeks it will improve and the real tacticians will get figured out.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 01:45:10 am
@Vermilion, please read the whole first post. It's not a random person, it will be people who are actually creating results who will be commanders. Their results in wins and losses decide.
But yeah, sure, that could be an option..

Just to let people know, we are voting for a feature quite likely to be implemented if we get enough votes, like 80% for..

The reason I didn't suggest voice chat is because it is nearly impossible to do. I've written walls of text about it before, but it requires a large effort with potentially no gain that no one is willing to do.

* Yes commanding is possible today as well, it's just that its hard to read the white text while in battle, separating it from  all the other chat.
* Voice commands are good, but more used for local coop and spammed a lot, watering it out.
* We would get a new stat to track!
* This is for battle only at first. Vote yes still, because there might be ways to implement it for siege later, It's just complicated with the way autobalance work there.

If players don't want to even TRY it, well then  :rolleyes:

carry on.

Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on October 18, 2013, 01:55:11 am
Good idea .. yet, as Teeth stated, a bit late for development steps in that direction for cRPG ... considering, that we had  (very similar) ingame commanding/teamwork support suggestions and discussions going on like two years (?) ago, when mod was still active and not dieing like now...

Very interresting to see how things will work out social/gameplay-wise, as an experiment with  perhaps applicable results for M:BG ... i wouldnt get my hopes to high though, for things will change and devs will put more of efford into it then they had showed in the past :rolleyes: especially since cRPG development is cooking on very low heat as far as i understand it.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Butan on October 18, 2013, 01:55:22 am
Totally worth a try, like others said.



I'll just add one thing :


Why not add the M&B voice command (Infantry/archers/cavalry, move/attack/etc) with F1-9, mixing it with current flag system + cRPG voice commands ?
If flags were LOCKED for the sole use of the Commander, and that his voice command were in a BRIGHT FONT, it would be very easy and efficient to use!



Like others also said, TS > typing. But if you have shortcuts to give orders fast, it can put the Commander on the same level as TS (without the detailed orders).
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Vermilion on October 18, 2013, 02:06:48 am
Quote from: Chris_the_Animal on October 18, 2013, 01:43:19 am
Its not a random person. It will be someone who already gained some Victorys and who showed that he got some knowledge about tactics and so on. In the first 2 weeks of this there will maybe be some guys who are not that good, but after these starter weeks it will improve and the real tacticians will get figured out.

Yes, I read Thomeks post before posting.

The system he has suggested has no validation towards someone credentials for commanding a battle.

The 'team balance/banner balance' system is too poor for this, often ending with one team dominating the map. The first round of a new map is always the most interesting because the all the players are shuffled up.

Winning has nothing to do with how good the leadership is especially if people are free to ignore it and play as they wish.

So someone who has won a few maps in a row or a randomly selected person, it makes no difference.


Ever way, I don't care who the person is who gains "leadership text" or how they gained it. I'm not going to follow it and I don't want to see it.

As far as I see it, you want to command the battle and tell people where to go etc. you have two choices
1. Make an army on strat, attack someone and only accept people who are in your TS and willing to follow your orders
2. Play Commander mode (or what ever it was called, if it's still running that is)


Quote from: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 01:45:10 am
@Vermilion, please read the whole first post. It's not a random person, it will be people who are actually creating results who will be commanders. Their results in wins and losses decide.
But yeah, sure, that could be an option..

My reply is the same as that to Chris.

Unless you are going to add some system where it can tell if the team won by actually following your order/lost due to following your orders. It is basically a random selection with no real credentials towards leadership.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: EyeBeat on October 18, 2013, 02:07:46 am
I am down though you need to give admins the ability to strip people of commander status if they abuse it.  Like spamming the chat.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Leshma on October 18, 2013, 02:10:51 am
I support this. Voice commands are decent way to command the army but I learned to ignore them because so many people like to abuse voice commands.

I suppose this is another pet project of Paul? If that's the case, I see no reason why we should be against it. At this point it's highly unlikely that anyone besides Paul will implement new stuff in cRPG. Be grateful, folks.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Xant on October 18, 2013, 02:12:08 am
Quote from: Leshma on October 18, 2013, 02:10:51 am
I support this. Voice commands are decent way to command the army but I learned to ignore them because so many people like to abuse voice commands.

I suppose this is another pet project of Paul? If that's the case, I see no reason why would should be against. At this point it's highly unlikely that anyone besides Paul will implement new stuff in cRPG. Be grateful, folks.
http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/4-easy-fixes-to-make-crpg-better/msg877313/#msg877313
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on October 18, 2013, 02:16:58 am
Quote from: Leshma on October 18, 2013, 02:10:51 am
I support this. Voice commands are decent way to command the army but I learned to ignore them because so many people like to abuse voice commands.
i believe there will be a difference, when voice command confirmation message is in commander color, not the common team-green message ... ^^
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Leman_Russ on October 18, 2013, 02:25:17 am
I support people trying to come up with new ideas, but I think there are currently more important things that should be looked at.  For instance, having more than just Tydeus handling balance would be a huge step in the right direction.  Or maybe fixing some of the major bugs in strat battles.  There is a lot of stuff that more than likely will never happen, and this will probably end up being one of these things.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 02:35:16 am
Quote from: Vermilion on October 18, 2013, 02:06:48 am
(click to show/hide)

You got it all wrong. This idea is to promote TEAMPLAY, introduce interesting new tactics, not to stroke some leader ego's.  The moment a leader shows some disgusting ego, people will simply stop following his orders. I don't think assholes have even a slight chance to become frequent commanders.

You must be NA, because on EU we have had good times when players such as Phaz would lead teams to victories again and again.(with just chat) Before bannerbalance even got implemented. This idea is all about creating characters like that, and giving possibilities to players to become commanders. It will be very hard to get there, but that path requires non-egoistic teamplay and being LIKED in the community.

So we won't just have leaders that are liked, we will have lots of players who wants to be liked because they want to be leaders one day. I think this idea could do great things to the community even: Just being a cool guy has rewards(!)

Most likely, the commanders won't be just clan stackers or leet players. They will be the ones people actually want to listen to.

The first battle a commander has, is to win the trust of his fellow players. If he looses that one, he has no future as a commander.   (Because commanding someone who doesn't listen is like commanding no-one, thus his commanding is ineffective, and will not improve his W:L ratio, thus make him less likely to be commander again.)
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: matt2507 on October 18, 2013, 02:50:09 am
This thing should have been implemented from the beginning  :wink:
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: karasu on October 18, 2013, 02:51:44 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Vermilion on October 18, 2013, 03:06:57 am
Quote from: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 02:35:16 am
You got it all wrong. This idea is to promote TEAMPLAY, introduce interesting new tactics, not to stroke some leader ego's.  The moment a leader shows some disgusting ego, people will simply stop following his orders. I don't think assholes have even a slight chance to become frequent commanders.

I get that it's to promote team play.

What I'm saying is the selection process of who becomes the "commander" is completely faulted.

Their W:L ratio will only reflect their ability to lead IF everyone always follows their command. The moment people stop following is not necessarily the same moment people start loosing. So, by not following someones commands you could win the game and improve their W:L ratio. Equally by not following a good commanders commands, you could throw the round and cause a good commander to loose, lowing their W:L ratio.

Banner balance is another issue in two ways
1. Pretty much same as above. Clan leader could control their clan members which will have a massive impact on the teams W:L ratio, no matter what commands are given by the "commander".
2. One team stacks their clan and dominates the server. Messes with both sides commander ratings.

Leechers/trolls
Ending up with a team which has a high population of those which don't care about winning, don't want to play the game or simply wish to troll your W:L ratio. (remember not all of us have your admin abilities to remove them from the server)

Low server population/people leaving the server.
These can both very quickly mess with your W:L ratio through no fault of your own.

Language barrier/mental disabilities
Not everyone reads/speaks/understands the same language or can read at a sufficient level to follow a battle plan. If you end up with a lot of people who don't understand what you are typing, they can't follow your commands.


There's probably other faults as well but it's late and I'm tired (I'm EU btw). Also, I was never against other people being able to have this available, I just want to be able to hide it from my screen  :mrgreen:.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on October 18, 2013, 05:40:42 am
Quote from: Vermilion on October 18, 2013, 03:06:57 am
(click to show/hide)
I think , that the point you are missing is, that the way the idea works is pretty unintrusive and optional for either side, commanding and following commands. At least it should be aimed, to implement it this way. Its basicaly an option to untilize the mechanic if needed, working after the principe: Any tactics is better than non at all.
I do agree, that the election algorithm isnt 100% guaranted to find the player with the "highest" commanding skills, as well as its not a necessary criteria, in order to simply increase the level of tactical play. Any simple order, followed by a majority of the team is still about 1000% increase in battle coordination, compared to what it is right now ,pst of the time in a filled server.

I do not intend to follow commands all the time, yet i do think, that it really could increase the overal teamplay and fun in battle for me. You on the other hand , should try to not only emphazise exploitability and weaknesses. We still have admins around quite often ( at least in battle) who will certainly take over,  if things go out of hand ;)
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: pingpong on October 18, 2013, 07:11:43 am
Nope, this is never going to work, teamplay needs ingame voicechat to be effective, not some gayspergnerd raging in chat with font THIS BIG and really fabulous color  , i would just mute his ass.

Lets just stick to I NEED HELP , IM BUILDING A SIEGE TOWER, ENEMIES INSIDE OUR BASE and other randomness, its what makes this game unique.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Torost on October 18, 2013, 08:09:48 am
Teamwork worked pretty good in the beginning of crpg.
With only teamchat and basic plans.(abit more advanced than go left,go right)
It was really  exciting to see if the plan would work.
People would acknowledge some of the veteran players (Oberyn, Varyag)and actually do as they said.
Beeing a veteran then meant that you could afford a horse and mailarmor :D

People would follow commands as long as it worked, if a plan failed 2 times in a row. Then there was an opening for a new plan, or anarchy.

I think it was easier in the past, as battles were more like 20 vs 20.
No alttabbing out,people used the DEADtime to plan new attacks and people moved as a group.
There was less or no autobalance then, so the team would be intact untill mapchange.

There were more signal to noise in the chat aswell.
And in general less retardation. :D


Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: the real god emperor on October 18, 2013, 08:37:26 am
I think its gonna be nice but if some buttholebecomes commander e.g. lanicor and spams his cmmndr chat with a bunch of insults , its gonna be worse than evah
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: GRANDMOM on October 18, 2013, 08:46:09 am
Quote from: Butan on October 18, 2013, 01:55:22 am
Totally worth a try, like others said.



I'll just add one thing :


Why not add the M&B voice command (Infantry/archers/cavalry, move/attack/etc) with F1-9, mixing it with current flag system + cRPG voice commands ?
If flags were LOCKED for the sole use of the Commander, and that his voice command were in a BRIGHT FONT, it would be very easy and efficient to use!



Like others also said, TS > typing. But if you have shortcuts to give orders fast, it can put the Commander on the same level as TS (without the detailed orders).

This +1

Also, we could try and like said before it could be evaluated and removed if not working - so there is no problem - DO IT
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: DumpsterNerd on October 18, 2013, 09:35:02 am
If anyone ever played the original Planetside, they would know just how awful of an idea 'command chat' is. 

Also, I distinctly remember "strategy" in battle being banned (shieldwalling in barns, etc) but that may have been closer to delaying.

I'd like to see this implemented, but I feel it'll cause more harm than good.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 10:15:20 am
Did I mention font anywhere?

For all i care it will be similar to admin chat.

@Vermilion, yes but over time bad teams will affect all commanders, good and bad. I'm sure there will be som crying and drama in the beginning, but then some people will start to raise above the scrubs and find ways to deal with it. If this system should turn out to actually work, there's always that chance, perhaps devs will be more motivated to do something hard like (for sure optional) voice chat, who knows?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Prpavi on October 18, 2013, 12:08:07 pm
Voted Yes seems like an interesting idea and if it works like it used to it will be fun.

My suggestion is to completely remove K:D from the website and add W:L why do we even need K:D O.o

This will put more focus on winning rounds not heroing and getting valor.

Also be more strict with chat spam to make this system more effective.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 18, 2013, 12:30:14 pm
In my opinion this will only add a grind factor to the game, maybe not for everyone but certainly for the people that make a chance to get the best win/loss ratio.
(will use grey order vs HRE as example as I am the most used to that :P)

People will refuse to join the server if they know they are losing, people will stop playing for fun and GTX even FASTER than they are doing now already.
They will purely play for winning to just keep that title of commander (yes, I feel a grey order vs HRE stand off coming), and no more for fun (eg using  your main to troll a bit around)

Players are carried by their clan, is it because grey order or HRE win multiple rounds on siege that ALL of them are suited for commander? No, I know both from grey order and HRE people that are absolutely not fit for commanding but are able to get a good multi because the combination of their skills and others' skills together makes their (clanstacking) team so unbeatable. So the guy with the commander chat is not always the one that can help the team to victory.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Prpavi on October 18, 2013, 12:39:14 pm
Also forgot to write, it would be crucial to have a thread opened with feedback to this feature on the forums and if it looks not to be working, if it's brokes somehow or needs tweaks it should be done within days not months like it's usuall practice of this mod, because if this fail miserably it might as well chase away little active playerbase we have left.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 12:56:15 pm
Quote from: no_rules_just_play on October 18, 2013, 12:30:14 pm
In my opinion this will only add a grind factor to the game, maybe not for everyone but certainly for the people that make a chance to get the best win/loss ratio.
(will use grey order vs HRE as example as I am the most used to that :P)

People will refuse to join the server if they know they are losing, people will stop playing for fun and GTX even FASTER than they are doing now already.
They will purely play for winning to just keep that title of commander (yes, I feel a grey order vs HRE stand off coming), and no more for fun (eg using  your main to troll a bit around)

Players are carried by their clan, is it because grey order or HRE win multiple rounds on siege that ALL of them are suited for commander? No, I know both from grey order and HRE people that are absolutely not fit for commanding but are able to get a good multi because the combination of their skills and others' skills together makes their (clanstacking) team so unbeatable. So the guy with the commander chat is not always the one that can help the team to victory.

This is not for siege.. At least not at first.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Utrakil on October 18, 2013, 01:03:33 pm
Quote from: Prpavi on October 18, 2013, 12:39:14 pm
Also forgot to write, it would be crucial to have a thread opened with feedback to this feature on the forums and if it looks not to be working, if it's brokes somehow or needs tweaks it should be done within days not months like it's usuall practice of this mod, because if this fail miserably it might as well chase away little active playerbase we have left.
The Idea is that people can  follow the comander but do not have to. So if the whole thing fails there is no damage done because everybody can go running uncoordinated as before.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Prpavi on October 18, 2013, 01:08:37 pm
Quote from: Utrakil on October 18, 2013, 01:03:33 pm
The Idea is that people can  follow the comander but do not have to. So if the whole thing fails there is no damage done because everybody can go running uncoordinated as before.

I get that, but if the idea fails and people decide not to follow the leader and you get a rager spamming the chat it would not be plesant. Option to mute the commander would help but that kinda defeats the purpose.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Utrakil on October 18, 2013, 01:13:01 pm
We got alot of comandspamming anyways. doesnt matter if it comes in a new color then. And yes the mute option should not spare the commander.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 18, 2013, 01:13:24 pm
Quote from: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 12:56:15 pm
This is not for siege.. At least not at first.
for battle the same reason:

No, because crpg doesn't have to be super serious at all time. People should play for fun and not GTX when they start losing. The problem with the win/loss system will be that people don't play at certain moments because they have no clan to back them up or they will GTX once another clan start rolling the server. All that while you could still have had so much fun, even on x1.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 01:22:49 pm
Ragers won't stand a chance, people won't follow their orders. People who are likely to be commanders are people who players want to follow. It is very clear to all that this is voluntary.

A quick guide for people who want to command:

1. Be popular among other players
2. Be known as a smart person
3. Make simple strategies that work

More complicated strategies will only be viable when people are used to using tactics, and actually sees results. And then only from leaders with great W:L ratios and trust.

Also, don't imagine it would be like: Go there and stand there, do this or do that. It's all about having a simple plan and making players understand it.

 I think mission-type orders would be more successful like this:

Commander Gurni:    "Oberyn, lead our cav and backstab their archers."
Commander Gurni:    "Infantry, we plan to charge at 4 minutes, if they charge before us, do a countercharge when they reach the tree"
Commander Gurni:    "Ranged focus down their pikers! Rufio protect our archers from cav and ninjas!"
Commander Gurni:    "Good luck lads!"


Aka.. He trusts Oberyn would lead the cav well. Infantry knows what to do. Archers understand who to focus. He puts Rufio doing something he normally does anyway.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 01:43:06 pm
Quote from: no_rules_just_play on October 18, 2013, 01:13:24 pm
for battle the same reason:

No, because crpg doesn't have to be super serious at all time. People should play for fun and not GTX when they start losing. The problem with the win/loss system will be that people don't play at certain moments because they have no clan to back them up or they will GTX once another clan start rolling the server. All that while you could still have had so much fun, even on x1.

A commander system would seriously give clans some resistance. This clan rolling BS doesn't happen that often either, and you are almost as likely to be on their team as well unless you are too in a large clan. But yeah, a further development could be to take commanders out of bannerbalance, which is all fair. If you want to command, you have to pay the price.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Butan on October 18, 2013, 01:47:11 pm
I hope it gets implemented AND IS MAINTAINED FOR MORE THAN A WEEK (even if there is a lot of complaints).

All new features are over-used at the beginning, but 90% of the trolls/spammers get annoyed and stop after a week or two.
Some special admin rules on kicking/banning commanders that use their role as a joke/deliberately trying to fuck his own team could be useful in that case.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Torben on October 18, 2013, 01:58:29 pm
having phaz and some dude on the other team organize the bunch always was crpg at its best,  period.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on October 18, 2013, 03:48:13 pm
I kinda dont get yet, why you decided for admin pink for commander-color, it seems a bit unintuitive and confusing to me that way  :?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Bjord on October 18, 2013, 03:52:36 pm
Use orange IMO.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Paul on October 18, 2013, 03:53:52 pm
For now I decide stuff for that and it's turquoise until I'm bothered enough to change the RGB hex.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Torben on October 18, 2013, 03:58:09 pm
Id like a double size black
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on October 18, 2013, 04:34:46 pm
actually, i was thinking, that in the best case, to post in commder chat should be optional for a player (if he has access), similar to admins, who can chat normal for usual communication, and use admin chat if needed...
so ... for a commander, pressing key to access admin chat (was it "u" ?) , could be linked to commander chat =)
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Paul on October 18, 2013, 04:48:01 pm
It's a vote for now. On map restart a player can apply for the commander spot unless it is already taken. Then a vote that only team mates can see takes place and if he gets >50% he becomes the new commander. Spot gets free when the old commander leaves or a new map stats.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 18, 2013, 08:05:31 pm
wow ok :) thanks!

Seems interesting, is at matter of waiting for patch before we can try?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Algarn on October 18, 2013, 08:09:49 pm
Paul, can we know if some features or items will be added ? :(
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Vovka on October 22, 2013, 08:55:26 am
Pls add option for turn off commander chat  :!:

Most of players dont give a fuck about chat even if it will be writen in purple
Part of players even don't know english for understand all dat colored letters


add x1,5-2 xp multiplier in area around Flags  (f1 melee f2 ranged f3 cav)
allow use flags only for choosen commanders
profit

public cares only about XP   
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Butan on October 22, 2013, 01:36:02 pm
Quote from: Vovka on October 22, 2013, 08:55:26 am
Pls add option for turn off commander chat  :!:

Most of players dont give a fuck about chat even if it will be writen in purple
Part of players even don't know english for understand all dat colored letters


Learn engrish silly rushyan
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 22, 2013, 01:51:19 pm
Quote from: Vovka on October 22, 2013, 08:55:26 am
public cares only about XP   

If they can get XP by following a commander with a proven record, that's something.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Vovka on October 22, 2013, 02:48:19 pm
Quote from: Butan on October 22, 2013, 01:36:02 pm
Learn engrish silly rushyan
more perspective to learn Chinese and convert to Islam)

Quote from: Thomek on October 22, 2013, 01:51:19 pm
If they can get XP by following a commander with a proven record, that's something.
Chat is the most inefficient method of coordination in a dynamic multinational game full of retards
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Butan on October 22, 2013, 03:21:19 pm
Quote from: Vovka on October 22, 2013, 02:48:19 pm
Chat is the most inefficient method of coordination in a dynamic multinational game full of retards


I know one famous NA chat commander (before its time) that would disagree with u !

A charismatic commander can be followed even through typing !
It may be the least efficient method, but its way easier to put in practice than trying to get a whole server on a TS server (and way easier to deal with conflicts between players, through ego or languages).
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Torben on October 22, 2013, 05:12:28 pm
old crpg has proven that commander chat can be fun and work out,  why not give it a try
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on October 22, 2013, 05:52:32 pm
chat has alot of advantages over voice comm.

chat is asynchron, so one can always recheck last commands in chat log, e.g. when you was distracted at the time a command was sent, whereas , voice comm is relying on the reciever to get the command right when it was sent -- or he has to reaquire the lost last command.
chat is aswell way easier to ignore, if the reciever "chooses to" not be reliant on commanding; in this way , the problem of muting command chat recieves much less priority than for voice ...

way more stable and unaffected by technical issues (noise,overtalking ...) than voice, some people may even have performance issues due voice comm

not so much affected by language issues, accents, voice issues like stutter or similar problems ... many foreigners can very well send and understand written english, but have problems talking and understanding vocal english...

chat is way more solid and superior choice imho
aswell as chat commanding can be well supported by highlighting and other gimmicks , in ways , that cant be done for vc..
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Torben on October 22, 2013, 05:56:12 pm
i really enjoyed commander system in battlefield 2,  but dont even remember how it worked ^^
wasnt it sth like positioning flags/objectives for different squads?
worked like a charm on public servers
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Jona on October 22, 2013, 09:59:20 pm
So will this be implemented in both siege and battle once it comes out? I mean, even if we don't get to 80%... if Paul is working on it why not at least test it? Currently at 79.3% acceptance which rounds up to 80.  :D

Personally, I feel that it would prove even more useful in siege compared to battle. In siege it would go something like:

[Commander] Alright guys, everyone hold ladders or gatehouse and after you die twice, fall back to the flag unless I say otherwise between now and then.
[Random Soldier] Huge push left ladder, they are headed to flag now!
[Commander] Alright everyone abandon your posts, get to flag now!
[Commander] Nice hold gents, push them out of this castle!
[Commander] Only 1 min left in this round, lets all fall back to seal the deal!
[Commander] Great job lads, the x5 lives on!

Granted, whenever anyone tries to take charge in siege on defense (in NA at least) it is usually someone shouting at everyone... "STAY ON THE FLAG YOU USELESS FUCKS IF YOU EVER WANT TO GET ABOVE AN X1!!!!" If we can have someone organize defense better, we could actually have more wall fighting (more diversity = more fun) and in theory the defenders can hold out longer. Of course if a better commander is on attackers' side, then defense may still be screwed.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: San on October 22, 2013, 10:01:29 pm
How verbose. We all know the commands will just be LEFT, RIGHT, or FLAG (and will probably work very well).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 23, 2013, 03:13:30 am
I think they main problem for people who want to command is to build a reputation and a name. I think this system could really give them that more easily, and people would decide themselves if its worth it to listen to him. It's also very simple and non-intrusive, but can of course be expanded upon.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: GRANDMOM on October 23, 2013, 09:04:34 am
I dont see the problem, try it - what is the worst thing that could happen if it fails? We remove it
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on October 23, 2013, 11:01:05 am
Im also just waiting for this. It is worth a try for sure.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Jona on October 23, 2013, 06:31:42 pm
Quote from: GRANDMOM on October 23, 2013, 09:04:34 am
I dont see the problem, try it - what is the worst thing that could happen if it fails? We remove it

Yeah! Just like how 1hand stab was instantly removed / re-balanced after the previous buff. Oh, wait...



(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on October 31, 2013, 10:53:44 am
I made some first experiences with the Commander System.
At the start of the map i just clicked Esc and choosed "Apply for commander spot"
then a poll poped up for my team mates and i got accepted pretty fast.
The commander chat is on the "O" key and only the commander can write. The words are in bright blue :)

I gace some commands and we won 4 rounds in a row due to good teamwork. I didnt see any points i gain or something that shows that somebody got commander skills overall. Maybe i didnt see or its just to early after patch release :/

One other problem was the next map. I didnt apply to commander. After 10 secs there was still no poll to vote for a commander so i tried to apply for the commander spot again, but no poll showed up. So we had no commander for the whole map. I wonder how this can happen? :/


Overall a very nice function with some bugs that need to be fixed :)
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Paul on October 31, 2013, 11:18:33 am
I'll look into it this evening.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on October 31, 2013, 03:32:01 pm
wow it's online already :)

I'll have a chance to test later, not yet though.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Butan on October 31, 2013, 03:40:40 pm
Appreciate your feedback Chris, hopefully the idea will work out.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Osiris on October 31, 2013, 04:13:03 pm
commanders can still speak while dead afaik which is a problem. I dont think they should get any extra points as 90% of the people ignore it anyway :P
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: [ptx] on October 31, 2013, 04:23:56 pm
They totally shouldn't get extra points, else people would apply to it, just for that and it would defeat the purpose.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Jona on November 01, 2013, 06:16:27 am
If you hit O whilst dead, no commander chat input comes up and you cannot send any commander messages to your team.

HOWEVER, I was typing a message in commander chat, got headshotted, and the text popped up right after my death in the log. I essentially hit enter as I died, so unless it was literally a tie and the game goofed (unlikely) I think that if you hit O and die, then you can complete your message to your team. I asked if they could see that message or not... and they could indeed see the message I sent after death.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on November 01, 2013, 08:44:11 am
Quote from: [ptx] on October 31, 2013, 04:23:56 pm
They totally shouldn't get extra points, else people would apply to it, just for that and it would defeat the purpose.

I didnt mean score points by points, but the already spoken about "commander ratio". So if the commander does a good job he gains "commander points". And when he applies to become commander of the team, the poll shows them or something behind his name and the people can see if hes a good one or a bad one.
That is at least my idea of how it could work.

By the way please make the Polls some more clear. They are not as high positioned as the Kick or map polls and almost completely hidden under the xp and multi bar. Also please let everyone in the team know who the commander is, not only the commander.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on November 01, 2013, 10:38:46 am
up to now I've only seen people using it to troll their team. All they do is write shit in chat. Feature is good but people are just fuckin morons
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on November 01, 2013, 02:04:37 pm
Quote from: Grumpy_Nic on November 01, 2013, 10:38:46 am
up to now I've only seen people using it to troll their team. All they do is write shit in chat. Feature is good but people are just fuckin morons

That is very sad to hear...
even more reason to do something about rating a commander. But winning a round is also easy without good commander...i dont know how to do so :/
anyone got a brilliant idea?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Osiris on November 01, 2013, 02:05:58 pm
ive yet to see anyone listen to a commander even when they try to command. Its what happens on pub servers i guess
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Elindor on November 01, 2013, 03:13:07 pm
Quote from: Thomek on October 17, 2013, 11:56:25 pm

A. Give the person with the highest Team Win:Loss ratio

Do the servers currently track this?

If so, they should let us see this!
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on November 01, 2013, 03:21:06 pm
It's not really implemented fully like my idea was.. (Perhaps it may one day?)

The really important thing is W:L ratio that needs to be recorded for every player, and displayed for everyone if you want to command.

People that could be good commanders are currently reluctant to do so, because of the trolls attention that they don't want, while people that want attention/trolls are more than willing to apply just to get coloured text. We really should have the W:L ratio's to back it up, because then the players would want and pressure good commanders to command. And the number is unquestionable proof of their leadership and teamplay.

No one will successfully troll a commander with a much better W:L ratio than themselves :)
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Paul on November 01, 2013, 03:38:11 pm
Win/loss ratio stuff is beyond my powers. It would need chadz and database stuff. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on November 01, 2013, 03:59:47 pm
Hey, thanks a lot for the effort Paul! :)

I'll see what I can do, I'm away for the weekend though.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Jona on November 01, 2013, 04:08:43 pm
Quote from: Paul on November 01, 2013, 03:38:11 pm
Win/loss ratio stuff is beyond my powers. It would need chadz and database stuff. Good luck with that.

Thanks a lot man, it's a neat little addition nonetheless... only problem is more poll spamming.  :lol:

But as you said, any more convenient method of selecting a leader would probably require the higher-ups to do some tinkering... so looks like we will have to deal with it for now.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: MURDERTRON on November 01, 2013, 04:08:54 pm
I only like to vote in polls when it ends with someone in tears.  Commander polls don't do that.  Get rid of them.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Paul on November 01, 2013, 04:15:53 pm
The only thing I could do is some sort of whitelist for commanders that is checked on the poll request.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on November 01, 2013, 04:40:13 pm
Told you you should've made  the text orange, then it'd work.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on November 01, 2013, 04:51:16 pm
I have to admit I kinda liked the first impressions
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Vermilion on November 01, 2013, 05:12:32 pm
There's no way to hide it. Even muting the player, it still appears on my screen.
**Due to the extra tag [COMMANDER] most of the writing is in the center of the screen, it's annoying when fighting**


Also it's on every server even strat battles :(


EDIT added section in **
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on November 01, 2013, 05:31:03 pm
Quote from: Osiris on November 01, 2013, 02:05:58 pm
ive yet to see anyone listen to a commander even when they try to command. Its what happens on pub servers i guess

I had a very good experience at thursday around 10:30 am gmt+1. There were around 30 to 40 players and we had the desert map with the 2 big lakes and the one smaller one. (hope you know the map i mean :/ ) I got to be the commander and just gave some easy commands like "lets make a shieldwall on the small hill. They have more cav and archers. We cant win by soloying so stick together and take them one by one. Thats my suggestion at least guys."
The team did what I suggested and we won every single round with this tactic. So its actually very useful and when there are some people who stick to the commander the rest will follow more likely.


Damn about this Win-Loss-Ratio-Impossibruness :(
Maybe you could change it to a system, where everyone can apply to be commander. This is not shown by a poll, but by a green sign behind the name when pressing "tab". Now the players of a team can choose between those via mouseclick or selection with the "arrow keys" and the guy with the most votes after 15 secs gets the spot.
Opinions?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Butan on November 01, 2013, 05:42:35 pm
Quote from: Vermilion on November 01, 2013, 05:12:32 pm
Also it's on every server even strat battles :(


Its a good thing that it is also on strat battles.

When the guys in teamspeak will understand its power, they will be asked to vote on the guy currently leading on teamspeak, and he will be able to relay short information through text and continue relaying more complex messages through the microphone.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on November 01, 2013, 05:44:19 pm
Quote from: Butan on November 01, 2013, 05:42:35 pm

Its a good thing that it is also on strat battles.

When the guys in teamspeak will understand its power, they will be asked to vote on the guy currently leading on teamspeak, and he will be able to relay short information through text and continue relaying more complex messages through the microphone.

Wheres ma +10 button?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Vermilion on November 01, 2013, 05:46:52 pm
Quote from: Butan on November 01, 2013, 05:42:35 pm

Its a good thing that it is also on strat battles.

When the guys in teamspeak will understand its power, they will be asked to vote on the guy currently leading on teamspeak, and he will be able to relay short information through text and continue relaying more complex messages through the microphone.

Yes but anyone can apply for it and people are trolls.

Is it possible to make it so leaders automatically have it? Having a poll at the start of every strat battle will be annoying.

Just remove the poll and give the ability to use commander chat to the leaders (like battalion flags and roster control)
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Butan on November 01, 2013, 06:24:14 pm
For public cRPG servers I agree we could use a form of forced natural selection so that the most able to command are those that will be elected for command most of the time.

But on strat fights it plays right in the hands of the leading faction to have the TS commander as Text commander so it will be fairly rare to have a troll come in and take charge (except in small and disorganized fights).



Basically, give this idea some time to make its mark  :P
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on November 01, 2013, 06:45:47 pm
thanks and great job for adding commander to the game Paul =)

but i do have an additional suggestion to make ... wouldnt it make alot of sense for commander to be auto-flagged .. like .. automatically has a flag, that people can see ? like , if they where in same battalion ... ya know
it does make alot of sense to me tbh

thanks alot anyways .. i think over time , it will find its use =)

edit: considering, that "if" in the game , batallion flags are used , there is basically always only one flag , thats being used , i suggeest , to dedicate batalion system to comander system ... just melt it together kinda
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Prpavi on November 01, 2013, 11:40:52 pm
An option to chose a commander should be disabled for the first round if it isn't already. No use applying before banner blance or applying twice because of it.

All in all nice feature, unfortunatley it does become a popularity contest sometimes, a "random" player will never get commander while a known player will and mostly use it to troll. It still might work though and it actually did on several ocassions today.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: War_Ferret on November 02, 2013, 12:40:29 am
I support all useless features, if they are at least good for a laugh. Weeeee, cyan text! I suggest adding a pope as well, chatting in purple with golden stripes. He can boost moral with his inspiring speeches.

Having a commander would be even more useful though, if this mod had any strategic elements. Then the commander might actually have something to say which isn't common sense.

At the very least, it makes the mod more competitive, introducing a win/lose ratio. K:D, battle performance and duel ranking just aren't enough.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: War_Ferret on November 02, 2013, 12:45:47 am
*accidental post*
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on November 06, 2013, 02:12:47 pm
I actually tried some commanding for a few days ...
Its not really easy tbh ; firstly , to become commander isnt easy , and then, to have people doing something you say is ... lets say "challenging" the least.
I mean ... im not claiming, that im the born commander or so ... i just like the idea to have some sort of higher level play in cRPG , than the dull zombie style, which i feel there is most of the time. And i dont mean that people are dump or are doing "stupid" things ... its just , that there is no overall idea to it, like a overall tactics mostly ...

But meta gaming aside ... i had particular problems with groups who... well, they did work together on theirown; yet, they mostly did something completely opposite, anti-synergetic ... like : when i was charging , they would be camping (instead of flanking) , when i was camping , they would be charging (and dieing) ... The point being is, that those groups happen to only dont feel obligated to work with the rest, but also they do not care for taking command, so the rest of the team might adapt to their doings ... props to the few guys , who actually followed me for a bit ^^~
I tried to incoorporate their tactics into mine, but that didnt really work out, because , i had to follow their uncommunicated behavior, which made me unable to give clear commands at start of the round to others ... which means , all others where doing something random -lol-

I want to emphasize, that im not qqing about teamwork here, just want to point out the core stuctural problematic about commanding and teamwork in cRPG , being, that there are groups, that do random stuff , which synergizes sometimes, but mostly it doesnt.

Deriving from my recent experiances, i like like to propose auto-flagging for commander once more. And i was considering to propose proximity gold bonus to that commander flag, but im not sure  this is the right approach, since its kinda seems a bit forced and should be solved on a social level. Again, i like to state , that i dont see commandng as an necessity in the game, just circumstantial tool, which is good to have, when its needed.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on November 06, 2013, 03:14:07 pm
Hopefully devs are looking into it.. :)

Also remember that it takes time and some learning. In the beginnings of cRPG with the proximity based system, players learned to act like a giant blob or fish in a steam, because that was the way to harvest huge XP and gold back then.

Having the W:L ratio's visible for commanders, and having commanders that are respected and liked, developing tactics that work etc are more worked in with the players we will see gameplay changing. Not all the time of course, but sometimes.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Osiris on November 06, 2013, 03:58:18 pm
but you also have to remember its a public server :P some people dont want to follow orders and want to rambo and some groups or clans might be trying out some new clan tactics or troll builds ^^
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on November 06, 2013, 05:21:32 pm
Of course man! :)

I'm probably the last person to follow orders anyway, unless I truly respect the commander of course. I also don't personally care about gold and XP and multi's..  What I do crave though.. is to see a successful coordinated all out charge again!
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on November 08, 2013, 12:36:56 am
oh, btw ... can you please make it so, that hotkeys not go through in commander chat pls?
each time i write "n" in commander chat, i drop my main weapon .. that sux beefy donkey balls =3
thanks alot =P
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Dooz on November 10, 2013, 11:48:20 pm
how do we mute this? could an option be added alongside chat and team chat mute for commander chat as well? without having to global mute so you can still see team if you want.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Clockworkkiller on November 11, 2013, 12:25:49 am
DONT NEVER EVER EVER TAKE AWAY COMMANDER MODE, I LUVE SPAMMING CHAT AND ANNOYING PEOPPLE AND GIVING ORDERS WITTH THE CYAN TEXT I LUVE IT I LUVE IT I LUVE IT
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Dooz on November 11, 2013, 01:23:31 am
you're a living proven point
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on November 11, 2013, 08:47:29 am
Quote from: Clockworkkiller on November 11, 2013, 12:25:49 am
DONT NEVER EVER EVER TAKE AWAY COMMANDER MODE, I LUVE SPAMMING CHAT AND ANNOYING PEOPPLE AND GIVING ORDERS WITTH THE CYAN TEXT I LUVE IT I LUVE IT I LUVE IT

mofuckaz like you should be perma banned for ruining this beautiful mod with your retardness!!!
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Eugen on November 11, 2013, 09:08:23 am
Maybe this is just another wild idea, that will be totally ignored, still there it comes:

Implement some graphical tweak to highlight the commander on battlefield, so every one on every team can identify him. Some sort of halo or corona maybe.


Shure, commanders can take up the battaillion flag anytime - but I have not seen them doing this. I think a commander should definitly show him self as commander. I will not follow a commander who doesnt have the guts to show his position on battlefield.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on November 11, 2013, 11:49:33 am
Quote from: Eugen on November 11, 2013, 09:08:23 am
Maybe this is just another wild idea, that will be totally ignored, still there it comes:

Implement some graphical tweak to highlight the commander on battlefield, so every one on every team can identify him. Some sort of halo or corona maybe.

  • This would first further boost the ego of the commander  :wink:
  • we could go on commander hunt!  :P
  • we would know who and where our own commander is and therefore we could better follow and protect him.

Shure, commanders can take up the battaillion flag anytime - but I have not seen them doing this. I think a commander should definitly show him self as commander. I will not follow a commander who doesnt have the guts to show his position on battlefield.
I like the idea.
The enemy commander shouldnt be highlighted though. It would make the whole team chase him just because he is unnormal...
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Suchechka on November 12, 2013, 03:31:35 pm
good idea, non-BULLSHIT
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on November 13, 2013, 04:02:38 am
The big problem is , that carrying a flag fucks up the view big time ... i believe this is the only reason, why flags arent used alot more commonly, and i already made some suggestion requests for changing it a while back ...
On the other hand ... giving some drawback to a flagcarrier might have been done on purpose for immersion reasons, since holding a banner irl would certainly influence your fighting ability as well. I mean , this isnt a scifi shooter, where HUD augmented display of locations or objects is something neatly fitting in the context ... design-wise, the current batallion flag system is already pretty strange.

Im actually not very certain about what to make of it. On the one hand, i want support for tactical play ... i would say , fuck it, lets add some HUD support . On the other hand,  it could fuck up immersion and other design aspects ...
Perhaps , there is another sollution somewhere out there, which can satisfy both aspects in a sound way. Like in M:BG suggestions, where there was this idea to make armor-attached team indicators instead of bubbles over the head ... if there was a nice immersive idea for it , i would certainly vote for it over a HUD indicator version ...

edit: just read this suggestion post : http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/strat-battle-commanders-should-be-forced-to-wear-different-armor/msg893455/#msg893455
which would actually not be the worst sollution O_o
But no Aura pls or, enemy commander indication other than different armor ...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Dooz on November 13, 2013, 04:15:48 am
seriously, there's no way to mute this?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Micah on November 13, 2013, 04:20:10 am
Quote from: Dooz on November 13, 2013, 04:15:48 am
seriously though, there's no way to mute this?
just ignore some chat lines ? this shouldnt be too hard for people with propper brain functions  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Dooz on November 13, 2013, 05:19:13 am
proper brain function would denote the eye naturally moving towards motion and color, such as a teal line of chat popping up. rethink your position.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Butan on November 13, 2013, 01:29:09 pm
If a commander is being voluntarily annoying and distracting the people from working together (completely the opposite of the function) maybe we should have a rule that allows people to kick such people through polls (and admin directly kicking).


I would have though, the novelty of this function would wear off and the players would stop being stupid but it seems they are not  :P
But AFAIK, once the playerbase have been trolled twice or thrice by the same wannabe-commander, he has greater difficulty to be accepted into this role, so maybe this issue will be resolved with more time  :)
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on November 13, 2013, 01:41:21 pm
Told you guys this wouldn't work, chat color wasn't orange.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Dooz on November 13, 2013, 02:34:57 pm
it's just.... what did the implementers expect? what could you possibly expect?
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Thomek on November 13, 2013, 04:56:35 pm
I think that it works decently, even in the current incarnation. Now it's a tool so a commander can manage to communicate more effectively by having text that doesn't drown in the spam.

Also, trolls get commander less and less, as players quickly learn who NOT to vote for.

Now, if we would get that W:L Ratio fixed! (chadz, harald, Ozin!)

We could actually judge the quality of the commander as we go..

Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Dooz on November 14, 2013, 12:46:44 am
maybe you're eu, but where i'm from there is no learning, no possible reason for the feature to exist. however i'm not against it remaining, i just need to be able to mute it. please. for the love of all that is holy. purge this demon from my life.
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: This_Isnt_Gomer on November 14, 2013, 09:19:52 am
I love Commander. I always get it because I have a awesome come out and load map first and then I can talk shit in blue text. +1
Title: Re: Commander Chat for cRPG - Poll inside.
Post by: Vermilion on November 14, 2013, 05:31:37 pm
Quote from: Dooz on November 13, 2013, 04:15:48 am
seriously, there's no way to mute this?

Come on, there's meant to be a patch/update coming soon anyway. Just add an option to mute command chat.
(Or at the very least make it so muting a player mutes them with command chat)


Also the polls are F'ing annoying please make it so you can only apply to be commander once per map.
And yes I know you will just say notify an admin of anyone spamming the command poll, but I come on this game to play not to talk to admins and bitch about other players.