cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Panos_ on October 12, 2013, 11:22:42 pm

Title: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Panos_ on October 12, 2013, 11:22:42 pm
Quote
General rules

    No exploiting of any kind
        NOT OK: Using a bug to gain undeserved benefits



Apparently, when a breach happens, it makes the wall transperant , so ranged go inside and abuse , this is clearly an abuse of  a bug/glitch, and it should be bannable.

It`s retarded and annoying at the same time..


This was taken from inside the wall, as you can see, even though the ranged is inside the "wall" they can see it all.

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Same wall, from the inside now

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Inside again

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Outside

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It`s like having a wallhack..   :?

Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Vovka on October 12, 2013, 11:55:01 pm
i see only 1 crime here
archer with heavy gauntlets! ban him!  :evil:
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Teeth on October 13, 2013, 12:03:51 am
Quote from: Sabjorn on October 12, 2013, 11:22:42 pm
this is clearly an abuse of  a bug/glitch, and it should be bannable.
Says Panos with his wall mounted ladders at a -45 degrees angle.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Jack1 on October 13, 2013, 12:06:39 am
when this same issue was brought up in NA the answer is that it acts exactly like a haystack. anybody can go in and use it, its just the team that is more aggressive that gets to have it.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Panos_ on October 13, 2013, 12:08:54 am
Quote from: Teeth on October 13, 2013, 12:03:51 am
Says Panos with his wall mounted ladders at a -45 degrees angle.

the ladders always touch solid ground, I dont see any bug abuse here..
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Osiris on October 13, 2013, 12:19:54 am
shooting from hay and other objects where the enemy cant see you is fine in normal battles i dont see why it wouldnt be on strat battles
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Scervo on October 13, 2013, 12:33:20 am
More rules is the last thing c-rpg needs lol. I'd rather they just fix breached walls (hard as shit to fight inside of them because you cant see anything), buuut I reallyyyyy doubt thats gonna happen. Either way, i think we need to ban less, not more
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Panos_ on October 13, 2013, 08:04:19 pm
Well in all honesty, I wasnt expecting support from Byzantiums and DRZ, since the first ones are the masters of pike stab abuse, and the seconds are just cheating fucks..anyway, enjoy some new screenshots..

(click to show/hide)


I don`t even know why I keep spending my energy .. pfff
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 13, 2013, 08:09:41 pm
Our admins are so pedestrian they only enforce the other rules when it's convenient or overtly in their faction's interest.  We don't really need more rules to not get enforced.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Butan on October 13, 2013, 08:12:24 pm
I get your "looks retarded and is annoying" point, but I think the breach exploitation isnt undeserved.

They have to make that breach (catapults firing) and then capture that breach and hold it. If they are in control of the breach, they deserve to use this "haystack" problem.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Teeth on October 13, 2013, 08:43:49 pm
Panos, just for the record. I deeply hate these stupid walls as fighting in or around them really frustrates me. It is just the fact that you propose changing it to a bannable offense on account of it being bug abuse in the most bug ridden game mode ever. It is a stupendous idea. Really just try to think about how banning for this would work, I'm sure you can figure out a few problems yourself.

If you would've made a whine thread about how the devs should fix this already, you got my full support, but sadly that is the only solution and it might take a while if ever.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Latvian on October 13, 2013, 08:55:21 pm
would be nice to make it so that nobody can see through wall, not from inside, not from outside
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Panos_ on October 13, 2013, 08:57:14 pm
I want it to be banable, because the players are fucking pricks, and will do anything just to increase their K/D, including abusing a bug..

Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Bjord on October 13, 2013, 09:17:33 pm
Panos, stop.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Segd on October 14, 2013, 11:11:50 pm
Maybe this crap was fixed. We couldn't destroy a wall completely in today's siege :(
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Vermilion on October 15, 2013, 12:42:51 am
Quote from: Sabjorn on October 13, 2013, 08:57:14 pm
I want it to be banable, because the players are fucking pricks, and will do anything just to increase their K/D, including abusing a bug..

Quote from: Sabjorn on October 13, 2013, 08:04:19 pm
Well in all honesty, I wasnt expecting support from Byzantiums and DRZ, since the first ones are the masters of pike stab abuse, and the seconds are just cheating fucks.

I love the way you think standing in a breach is a ban worthy offence yet you exploit plenty of other features/bugs/mechanics yourself.

Stupid ladders which hang horizontal at 90 degrees only just touching the side of a castle
(click to show/hide)

Roofs of siege towers which are almost impossible for attackers to get to (and clearly aren't meant to be walked on, textures are bugged and you can only stand on small areas or you fall through)
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

All these "features/bugs/exploits" and others need to be fixed/removed, and you should be asking for them to be fixed/removed rather than trying to ban the players which are using them.
Both sides of the "war" in some way use/exploit broken features, so stop thinking your actions are acceptable because you get away with it.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Latvian on October 15, 2013, 08:29:39 am
Quote from: Vermilion on October 15, 2013, 12:42:51 am
I love the way you think standing in a breach is a ban worthy offence yet you exploit plenty of other features/bugs/mechanics yourself.

Stupid ladders which hang horizontal at 90 degrees only just touching the side of a castle
(click to show/hide)

seriously? have you seen how uif exploited same thing like year, maybe less ago?these are only flowers. Why i didnt see you complaining about this back them?

Roofs of siege towers which are almost impossible for defenders to get to (and clearly aren't meant to be walked on, textures are bugged and you can only stand on small areas or you fall through)
(click to show/hide)
this might not be compleatly fair to attackers but i dont see how geting on roof of siege tower is bad, it compleatly makes sense, this is one of best ways to destroy it.
(click to show/hide)

All these "features/bugs/exploits" and others need to be fixed/removed, and you should be asking for them to be fixed/removed rather than trying to ban the players which are using them.
Both sides of the "war" in some way use/exploit broken features, so stop thinking your actions are acceptable because you get away with it.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Vermilion on October 15, 2013, 12:33:59 pm
Quote from: Latvian on October 15, 2013, 08:29:39 am
seriously? have you seen how uif exploited same thing like year, maybe less ago?these are only flowers. Why i didnt see you complaining about this back them?

Once again anti-UIF excuse is "they did it first". Lets see what happens when you control a breach.

As I said BOTH sides have exploited bugs and broken features. I'm not saying ever side was right to do so, I'm saying don't ask for bans when you turn around and copy what "they" did at the first opportunity you get.
I can see how archers hidden within the wall textures is annoying but if you have a problem with it, you should be asking the devs to fix/change the visual effects of the broken wall.

Quote from: Latvian on October 15, 2013, 08:29:39 am
this might not be compleatly fair to attackers but i dont see how geting on roof of siege tower is bad, it compleatly makes sense, this is one of best ways to destroy it.

In the interest of a 'game' (which is what this is) accessing an area which is inaccessible to the enemy (unless they take the wall of the castle, hold it, ladder to their own siege tower) seems like exploitation to me. If the top of siege towers are meant to be accessible, then they need to have their textures fixed because they are clearly bugged right now.

It would be good to get a clear ruling on each of the issues identified in this thread and others. (As they are not currently covered, I guess this would have to be from a dev)
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on October 15, 2013, 11:10:21 pm
Maybe its a bit dastardly, but unless it is explicitly illegal (blatant throwing of siege gear on ladders) I'd reckon its wise to take advantage of it the best you can and expect the other folks to do the exact same thing. Its almost completely unenforceable to police most grey areas in Strategus, and I can't imagine trying to take action like a ban without pissing off tons of people. All admins can really do is throw up some pink-text asking people to stop and taking action only against repeat offenders that are obviously breaking the rules again and again. Admins are trying to participate in battles the same as everyone else; the only way to really get a solid view of whats going on the use admin powers is to spectate the battle from start to finish, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to do that.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Bulzur on October 16, 2013, 03:13:10 pm
Quote from: Osiris on October 13, 2013, 12:19:54 am
shooting from hay and other objects where the enemy cant see you is fine in normal battles i dont see why it wouldnt be on strat battles

For two reasons :

-maybe because the ennemy can actually see you if he pays attention
-because the object in wich they are hiding is ALWAYS SMALL ! If you notice a shooting from there, you can blindly shoot at it too, and hit something.

In this case, there's a huge wall, where range can easily sidestep, and stay invisible, and there's no way you can dodge arrows since you don't know WHEN they're going to shoot.

I don't know HOW you can compare this situation to normal battles.




To the people saying : "they got there themselves, so they deserve that advantage", i call bullshit.

How hard do you think it is to hide in a destroyed wall, when the offenders/attackers have their forward spawn just behind it, while the defenders spawn on top of the other walls, where there's actually fighting going on.

There is litteraly no way for defenders to hold this breach, since attackers swarm it way more effectively.


I just heavily despise the range exploiting this bug. It even makes me sad when the players have enough skills to do well in normal situations, and don't have to exploit this shit.
It should be under the common sense rule, that you can't shoot from there...



I'm all for a punishment for griefing for players abusing this. Just make it clear not to SHOOT from there. How hard and gamebreaking will this simple rule be ?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Bjarky on October 16, 2013, 04:09:37 pm
Well every side has used this for a long while, UIF are not the only ones, lets be clear on that :)
I really hope the devs will fix this bug though, cus to the contrary of an hay stack where u still can shoot the cheeky bastard  :twisted:
The bugged wall still acts like a wall and soaks up projectiles incoming from outside, so u can easely stay there and never get shot, the only danger is sometimes when an opponent jumps down survives and causes havoc between the ranged if they dont have infantry guarding them.

So yeah making it an gentlemans rule until its fixed wouldn't be that bad, not sure about the banning thing, but if everyone could agree on not doing this, we would have one glich less to care about.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Real_Dece_Guy on October 16, 2013, 08:41:07 pm
Quote from: Bulzur on October 16, 2013, 03:13:10 pm
How hard do you think it is to hide in a destroyed wall, when the offenders/attackers have their forward spawn just behind it, while the defenders spawn on top of the other walls, where there's actually fighting going on.

There is litteraly no way for defenders to hold this breach, since attackers swarm it way more effectively.

This hasn't really been my experience in NA.  Usually the breach is quite fairly contested.  Whoever cleans it out first (by throwing enough people with great mauls in first-person view into it) gets to use it until it gets contested again.  It's difficult for the attackers to set a forward spawn that close to the breach without leaving themselves open for the defenders to ladder over from the wall and drop on its roof.

Unless and until the problem of intangible walls gets patched, I think the current dispensation is fair, and trying to solve it by admin bans with it would upset more people than it would soothe.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: woody on October 17, 2013, 01:59:57 am
This is a pretty minor bug compared to the crap listed in the good post about what needs fixing/glitches that are abused.

In fact just imagine they are hiding in wreckage of wall for cover and its not even annoying.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Corsair831 on October 17, 2013, 02:13:40 am
Panos, resist the full retard ! cmp is reading all your posts looking for a reason to ban you !  :mrgreen:

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Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Bryggan on October 20, 2013, 07:26:28 pm
Never been in a strat siege, but there is at least one regular crpg map that has a wall you can hide in, which got me killed near the end of a regular fight.  It was extrtemely annoying, because I knew I was getting shot at but couldn't figure out where it was coming from. Unlike haystacks and bushes, where you can reasonably expect someone to hide, a person does not expect someone to be able to hide in solid stone.

Bannable according to me.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Osiris on October 20, 2013, 07:44:15 pm
difference is these walls only become like that after being breached by the catapult so its no surprise people will be there its the way into the castle.
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Vovka on October 20, 2013, 08:16:17 pm
ban all ranged - problem solved  :P
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Benemortasia on October 23, 2013, 10:03:33 am
Quote from: Sabjorn on October 12, 2013, 11:22:42 pm
Quote
General rules

    No exploiting of any kind
        NOT OK: Using a bug to gain undeserved benefits

This isn't a bug. It is part of the game's graphics pipeline and is called backface culling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-face_culling
Title: Re: Make shooting from inside a breach, banable offence.
Post by: Segd on October 23, 2013, 03:58:27 pm
Quote from: Benemortasia on October 23, 2013, 10:03:33 am
This isn't a bug. It is part of the game's graphics pipeline and is called backface culling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-face_culling
Yep, I never saw anybody banned for hiding in a haystack :)