cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Necrorave on October 09, 2013, 10:07:27 pm

Title: Long Voulge
Post by: Necrorave on October 09, 2013, 10:07:27 pm
While I agree we need more variety in the weapons, I do not believe we need more weapons.  (For the most part)

I am not sure if this is possible with a cut weapon (I don't see why not though)  Why don't we try this with the Long Voulge

Add Crushthrough

As of now, the long voulge is almost unacceptable as a weapon other then to fool around with.  I understand why it cannot be a 4 directional weapon, although I always thought it would be interesting to give it Crush through.

The length is a big plus that the long voulge has, although it is unbalanced and can only swing in two directions.  Which seems to balance it out.  It also has Cut damage with the overhead that can be somewhat formidable, although the pierce is laughable.

Adding crush through would bring enough to the weapon without making it too much to deal with at the same time I believe.  The low weight will make it harder to accomplish this crush through, while at the same time it will also not have knockdown.  So this weapon would be turned into a effective support weapon.  If the speed must be modified, so be it.  Although, I do not see why it would be necessary.

I am not saying this is what we NEED to fix the long voulge. I am merely creating an idea that could perhaps revive it.

Feedback?

EDIT: Wrong Section ;p  Apologies to the nerds who care.
Title: Re: Long Voulge
Post by: Malaclypse on October 09, 2013, 10:20:16 pm
Quote from: Necrorave on October 09, 2013, 10:07:27 pm
I understand why it cannot be a 4 directional weapon, although I always thought it would be interesting to give it Crush through.

If I remember correctly, it was made from a 4d weapon to a 2d weapon because of how effective and cheap it was in Strat, not because it was too long for a 4d weapon for regular play. Pretty lame reason, seemed fine as a 4d weapon in regards to regular play, just another item ruin't by Strat balancing. The Long Voulge at least remains hilariously effective in DTV.

As to the suggestion, I don't believe there's anything stopping pierce/cut from being CT. Pikes were/are CT in WF&S IIRC.  A MW Long Voulge weighs a mere 3.7, lighter than even a +0 Maul (5 weight), so it probably wouldn't crushthrough all that often anyhow, as you noted.

Overall I don't think this is the right fix for it; I think the right fix is to give it back it's side-swings, and jack up the price in Strategus. If that ruffles too many feathers on it's own, lowering it's damage to LHB/HB level should straighten them I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Long Voulge
Post by: Necrorave on October 09, 2013, 10:28:52 pm
Quote from: Malaclypse on October 09, 2013, 10:20:16 pm
Overall I don't think this is the right fix for it; I think the right fix is to give it back it's side-swings, and jack up the price in Strategus. If that ruffles too many feathers on it's own, lowering it's damage to LHB/HB level should straighten them I'd imagine.

While I do understand your reasoning.

I also made this idea to add more variety to the weapons we have now.  I felt a Cut weapon with Crushthrough would give some uniqueness to the weapon, while creating a new feel as well.  It may not be much different, but it is still something.

I do miss the 4 directional aspect fo the long voulge, but now that I have played much more I can see the choppiness of the Glaive side swing animations.  Imagine that but a little worse.

It may have originally have been nerfed for strat, but I do feel it should stay 2 Directional.
Title: Re: Long Voulge
Post by: Grumbs on October 10, 2013, 12:54:53 am
I wouldn't really change it so drastically. Just make it Balanced and give it about 24/25 pierce stab. Swiss Halbard is shorter but +4/+3 damage stab on it, Partisan doesn't rear horses but has 37 cut stab (i'd give Partisan about 40 cut stab tbh because it doesn't rear). For 5k weapon I think Long Volge would be about right then, maybe a bit less overhead damage
Title: Re: Long Voulge
Post by: Necrorave on October 10, 2013, 03:08:28 pm
Quote from: Grumbs on October 10, 2013, 12:54:53 am
I wouldn't really change it so drastically. Just make it Balanced and give it about 24/25 pierce stab. Swiss Halbard is shorter but +4/+3 damage stab on it, Partisan doesn't rear horses but has 37 cut stab (i'd give Partisan about 40 cut stab tbh because it doesn't rear). For 5k weapon I think Long Volge would be about right then, maybe a bit less overhead damage

Now, I am not arguing that something like this would make sense.  Although, it would make the Long Voulge no different from any other 2 Directional.

My idea was to pose a new feel to the weapon, make it unique in some way.  Something that does cut damage and has Crush Through as well as Bonus against Shield.

It would be a shield killer if used correctly.  Although, since the weight is so low, The Crush Through would not be too common at the same time.

The whole purpose of this post was to create something different.  Or at least change it into something different.
Title: Re: Long Voulge
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 10, 2013, 03:21:38 pm
Strategus effectiveness is a moot point.  This strat, we had a very quick arms race, and them long voulge has actually proven to be ineffective.  I think Matey had them in his battle, against +3 black lamellar vests, and they were far from too effective.

I might be wrong, since I didn't play at the time, but I heard you could swing through a teammate and hit the guy behind him, which was an issue with pole arms that has since been fixed.  Was it LLJK who used this weapon whole sale?  Also I think I once heard something about mr shovel face and his affair with a long voulge.
Title: Re: Long Voulge
Post by: Teeth on October 10, 2013, 03:58:32 pm
We do need to fix the long voulge. Long voulges definitely deserve a place in a Medieval game and currently there is zero point in using it. Definitely a return to 4 directional. Commented this on another thread as well, but the 4 directional Long Voulge was unique as fuck. I proposed the following stats for a four directional version.

(click to show/hide)

This would make it a crazy playstyle that could pay off if you play it properly, but the 80 speed and unbalanced tag ensures that anything but careful usage will end up in disaster. I'd say it should have a high difficulty because you don't want 8+ athlethics to be able to sideswing with a 175 length weapon. I don't know what the original four directional stats were, those were fine too. Too fix strat problems it should have been made more expensive.
Title: Re: Long Voulge
Post by: Necrorave on October 10, 2013, 04:07:25 pm
Quote from: Teeth on October 10, 2013, 03:58:32 pm
We do need to fix the long voulge. Long voulges definitely deserve a place in a Medieval game and currently there is zero point in using it. Definitely a return to 4 directional. Commented this on another thread as well, but the 4 directional Long Voulge was unique as fuck. I proposed the following stats for a four directional version.

The problem I can see with giving such a long weapon 4 directions is what I mentioned earlier in the discussion.  The side swing animations for longer polearms start to get choppy and sometimes impossible to predict (Backswings and such)

The Glaive is a weapon I always hated just because of the choppiness the animation presents.  Yet, that is nothing compared to the Long Voulge in length.

I have no other reason to disagree with you other than the animation issue.
Title: Re: Long Voulge
Post by: Teeth on October 10, 2013, 05:11:14 pm
Quote from: Necrorave on October 10, 2013, 04:07:25 pm
The problem I can see with giving such a long weapon 4 directions is what I mentioned earlier in the discussion.  The side swing animations for longer polearms start to get choppy and sometimes impossible to predict (Backswings and such)

The Glaive is a weapon I always hated just because of the choppiness the animation presents.  Yet, that is nothing compared to the Long Voulge in length.

I have no other reason to disagree with you other than the animation issue.
I do not get what you mean really, my suggested stats are near long maul speed and those are piss easy to predict. Honestly I always just think there is something weird with just the glaive and the long hafted blade, because they are the only polearms that seem way too fast for their speed rating and have these jerky swings.
Title: Re: Long Voulge
Post by: Necrorave on October 10, 2013, 05:23:37 pm
Quote from: Teeth on October 10, 2013, 05:11:14 pm
I do not get what you mean really, my suggested stats are near long maul speed and those are piss easy to predict. Honestly I always just think there is something weird with just the glaive and the long hafted blade, because they are the only polearms that seem way too fast for their speed rating and have these jerky swings.

I think it has a mixture to do with the animation speed and Length as well.  Although, the way a longer polearm looks when it is swung gives the illusion of speed.  Even though the glaive may not be that quick, it looks a lot quicker because of the length (The end of the weapon goes faster than the shaft)

I feel there would be a similar problem with the Long Voulge, even at a crazy speed rating like 80.  I just see issues from it.  The unpredictability I am talking about it when the swing is near its end but the speed makes the animation last longer, I have been hit by back swings for full damage at times  (By the longer polearms at least)  I can only imagine what that would be like the extra length.

Also, I feel if it was given 4 directions back.  The weight of the weapon would have to be raised as well to slow down the users a bit more anyways.