cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: no_rules_just_play on October 08, 2013, 10:34:46 am

Title: fucked up overheads
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 08, 2013, 10:34:46 am
I think everyone probably already has had this problem, especially with the worst of all weapons that can do this: the great maul.

An enemy swings an overhead at you, but misses you by an inch.
When you take away your block, he turns his body so that he new faces you (the animation of his swing still in the very end or even with the weapon already touching the ground).
Because he turns his body, the his weapons follows and makes contact with your hitbox (your toe of something).
For some retarded reason this still makes damage and if he uses a knockdown weapon you even have a chance to get knocked down..

This seriously annoys me and there is no way this is acceptable, please do something!
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 08, 2013, 10:53:23 am
i took the time and elaboration to make a drawing:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Paul on October 08, 2013, 11:12:27 am
Actually in the last patch there was a slight change to 2h overheads that should in theory ease the problem a bit. However imo the only ways to solve it completely would be either to freeze turning in the later parts of overhead or to make the overhead release anim weapon speed independent and very quick.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 08, 2013, 11:15:49 am
It might indeed happen a bit less, but it still happens quite alot :/
Maybe the first solution might be the most realistic as you wouldn't be able to turn your body anyway if you would put so much momentum forward
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Bjord on October 08, 2013, 11:39:09 am
Why is no_rules even being downvoted? What he described is like one of the most annoying mechanics in this game. Should be remedied if possible.

Good suggestion, about time.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Strudog on October 08, 2013, 12:04:10 pm
It happens with the Long maul as well, i will hit the ground next to the guy and hear a clonk sound, maybe the animation freezes while you turn with these weapons and is why it looks like they miss
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 08, 2013, 12:13:29 pm
yes, it is both polearms and twohanders that do this
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: 722_ on October 08, 2013, 12:48:19 pm
yes please, this is really annoying
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: AntiBlitz on October 08, 2013, 02:15:24 pm
Actually in the last patch there was a slight change to 2h overheads that should in theory ease the problem a bit. However imo the only ways to solve it completely would be either to freeze turning in the later parts of overhead or to make the overhead release anim weapon speed independent and very quick.

Paul makes the exact same suggestion as me, gets +ed, i make the same suggestion, get -10.  I made this suggestion ages ago, i figured this could be used to stop people from spinning with weapons, it made clear sense, and it didnt have to just be used for one direction, it could have been used for stabbing, overheads, etc.

http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/2h-lolstab-polearm-stab-fix/msg830354/#msg830354

thanks Kalp, ur trolling skills are great.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Torben on October 08, 2013, 02:18:19 pm
same thing happens with 2h stab though,  doesnt it?
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Bjord on October 08, 2013, 02:29:35 pm
No, 2h stabs are more likely to glance that far into the animation compared to maul overhead.

Also, Kalp, fuck off.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Gurnisson on October 08, 2013, 04:42:29 pm
Maul your toe and see if it doesn't hurt. :P

Locking overhead in the end of the animation would make it even more inferior to side-swings and stabs. Overhead is already the worst attacking direction (for polearms and two-handers, not 1h) in anything but a gank, where the stab is the king anyway. Also, the turn-rate on the great maul is abysmal and definitely doesn't need a(nother) nerf.


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: San on October 08, 2013, 04:50:13 pm
yes, it is both polearms and twohanders that do this

Sometimes happens with 1h, too. It's not satisfying to get hits like those.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: AntiBlitz on October 08, 2013, 04:53:45 pm
Maul your toe and see if it doesn't hurt. :P

Locking overhead in the end of the animation would make it even more inferior to side-swings and stabs. Overhead is already the worst attacking direction (for polearms and two-handers, not 1h) in anything but a gank, where the stab is the king anyway. Also, the turn-rate on the great maul is abysmal and definitely doesn't need a(nother) nerf.


(click to show/hide)

what sound? taking advantage of a person missing should be key, being rewarded for hitting someone because u missed shouldnt, by the time u wait for anything he will be blocking again, and you ruined an opportunity.  How is overhead worse? you hit a headbox nearly every swing, how is that worse?

(click to show/hide)
^secret way of knowing what Gurnisson will say.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Gurnisson on October 08, 2013, 05:20:00 pm
Overhead is a liability. Even if the miss chance is low, those few missed hits and the fact that you can't make really trick your opponent into believing that you've already released the attack makes it inferior in my opinion. Hitting the head with side swings are not hard by the way.

I trust my ears more than my eyes in a game full of weird lags. You should to the same if get hit by dragged overheads often. If it happens once in a blue moon, just move on.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Bjord on October 08, 2013, 05:35:25 pm
Maul your toe and see if it doesn't hurt. :P

Locking overhead in the end of the animation would make it even more inferior to side-swings and stabs. Overhead is already the worst attacking direction (for polearms and two-handers, not 1h) in anything but a gank, where the stab is the king anyway. Also, the turn-rate on the great maul is abysmal and definitely doesn't need a(nother) nerf.


(click to show/hide)

Gurnisson, really? Realism angle?

I never thought you to be one of them. :wink:

Also, trusting your ears is not a problem, but this isn't at all where the main issue is. The main issue is the fact that lack of skill or a simple mistake has a chance to reward you with a knockdown. That's just fucked up and stuff like that adds to all the other tons of quirks the cRPG populace has learned to abuse in all these years.

Maul overhead is mostly fine, the window of damage should just be reduced, assuming it's possible to tweak that. Use animation for reference.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: BlueKnight on October 08, 2013, 05:46:11 pm
It happens to me when I use bec de corbin overhead a lot don't know why. It seems my weapon should already be moving back but then bam! hit... Same with Long Maul and all other weapons that do not bounce when they hit the ground with the overhead.

I know it's fucked up but in the same time, overhead is the most dangerous attack for you when you do it. It just likes missing the target itself or hitting other people around cuz yolo. Making all the overheads bounce on the ground on the other hand would be just retarded, as they tend to bounce even when it looked like a perfect hit.

Freezing overhead rotation is not an option as well. Shortening the effective time of an overhead (so you can see the animation but the weapon doesn't carry damage anymore (if it's even possible)) would be best imho.

Maul your toe and see if it doesn't hurt. :P

Locking overhead in the end of the animation would make it even more inferior to side-swings and stabs. Overhead is already the worst attacking direction (for polearms and two-handers, not 1h) in anything but a gank, where the stab is the king anyway. Also, the turn-rate on the great maul is abysmal and definitely doesn't need a(nother) nerf.


(click to show/hide)

^
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 08, 2013, 06:24:11 pm
allright allright, I won't do it :P

Don't release block before you hear the sound.
the point is that the overhead misses you, so there is no sound unless you just abandon all sense and accept the fact that it can still hit your block when it hit the floor next to your feet.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Falka on October 08, 2013, 06:38:17 pm
allright allright, I won't do it :P

Yup, don't cry about minuses, it's retarded  :wink:
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 08, 2013, 06:43:50 pm
it's just how narrow-minded some people can be...
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Bjord on October 08, 2013, 07:12:58 pm
Yup, don't cry about minuses, it's retarded  :wink:

It's not retarded, but downvoting on no merit other than personal dislike is. However, everyone does it, so we're all guilty.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 08, 2013, 07:59:46 pm
yes but we don't just downvote every post in a thread without giving a reason why your opinion is different. That's being a douche without adding anything to the discussion.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Bjord on October 08, 2013, 08:15:10 pm
I admit I come off as very abrasive in my tone and that is probably why I often get downvoted. Zlisch & Gang are special, though. :wink:
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 08, 2013, 08:19:43 pm
I admit I come off as very abrasive in my tone and that is probably why I often get downvoted. Zlisch & Gang are special, though. :wink:
Look through all your posts buddy, ooooh look, there are some I've not downvoted, is that because I didn't think you were Bjording, or because you were at least only Bjording a little bit and I felt that was an achievement for you?
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Bjord on October 08, 2013, 08:23:53 pm
I wonder if you're such a bundle of sticks IRL too, Zlisch. ( ゚‿ ゚)

Have fun coming up with an edgy reply, won't bother reading it though.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 08, 2013, 08:25:50 pm
I wonder if you're such a bundle of sticks IRL too, Zlisch. ( ゚‿ ゚)

Have fun coming up with an edgy reply, won't bother reading it though.
I am, oh, and idiot, I also have a point, and you're to cowardly to admit it.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 08, 2013, 08:48:24 pm
in theory it can happen with any weapon, it's more noticeable with the mauls because they are longer (so you see them physically "in the ground" at the end of the animation), and they can crush through.  Would be nice if the end of animations just didn't do any damage, I know there's a window in the animation that can be set to do some damage, full damage, basically no damage, etc. 

I think the only problem with that, is what about when you're on terrain, or something like that...not all situations are static, but the amount of damage compared to where you're at in the animation does stay the same.  It's always been annoying when a maul is sitting in the ground and they helicopter spin it on the ground and you get crushthroughed or knocked down...but I don't know what can be done to fix it without fucking something else up.  I think they tried their best (and succeeded for the most part) with the limiting of how much you can turn with heavy weapons once you swing them (basically it ended helicopter swinging great mauls/pikes). 
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Bjord on October 08, 2013, 09:14:01 pm
I get people bandwagon downvoting me, but no_rules? AFAIK he's one of the few who cares about our newbies. Fucking cancers.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 08, 2013, 09:17:02 pm
I get people bandwagon downvoting me, but no_rules? AFAIK he's one of the few who cares about our newbies. Fucking cancers.
<3
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 09, 2013, 08:22:45 am
2h is the worst offender of the three.  Polearm spins are regulated the most, which I guess was used to get rid of the real lolstabs.  1h are generally too short, and don't really have a chance to pass under the legs.
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: Latvian on October 09, 2013, 08:50:45 am
I think everyone probably already has had this problem, especially with the worst of all weapons that can do this: the great maul.

An enemy swings an overhead at you, but misses you by an inch.
When you take away your block, he turns his body so that he new faces you (the animation of his swing still in the very end or even with the weapon already touching the ground).
Because he turns his body, the his weapons follows and makes contact with your hitbox (your toe of something).
For some retarded reason this still makes damage and if he uses a knockdown weapon you even have a chance to get knocked down..

This seriously annoys me and there is no way this is acceptable, please do something!
how is this different from poking with long sharp sticks and shaking mouse at that moment so you hit soemone right infront of you with 3m long stick?
Title: Re: fucked up overheads
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 09, 2013, 09:27:59 am
Well first of all that the problem i described is a bonus that people get for making the stupid mistake of missing an overhead.
The pike 'abuse' so many people talk about is a practiced skill that is the only way to play the pike class. I know it's not realistic and i would love to have more realistic pikes. But before you remove the only thing pikers have, think about what they should do if an enemy ran straight through their 3m long sharp stick again. Or when by some magic people started running into a pikewall blocking all pikes with one blok at the same time.

I think this topic has been discussed quite a few times already and i already mentioned my opinion so i wont say anymore.

This problem is not just an attack on a certain class (i could cry so much about some classes, but i wont) i also have seen this happening with my polearms, so i just would like an annoying game feature to be taken care off. ;)