cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Fartface on September 30, 2013, 08:24:40 pm

Title: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on September 30, 2013, 08:24:40 pm
We removed polestagger because it gave a ´´freehit´´ , so why when a archer/crossbowman/thrower hits me I'm unable to block for 2 seconds aswel?If you're in a melee fight and any type of ranged hits you they can easily get 1 if not 2 free hits off you because you are immobalised and can't block for 1 second after the arrow/bolt/throwing weapon has hit you. It's annoying enough you lose 70% to an crossbow bolt but they get to stun you for 2 seconds aswel.....
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Paul on September 30, 2013, 08:51:25 pm
no, because no bow/xbow has the cadence to profit from that with a free follow up hit. if you manage to provide an assist to a teammate with it: good job. could have hit the teammate instead, so risk and reward. seems fine to me.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: BlueKnight on September 30, 2013, 09:04:48 pm
no, because no bow/xbow has the cadence to profit from that with a free follow up hit. if you manage to provide an assist to a teammate with it: good job. could have hit the teammate instead, so risk and reward. seems fine to me.
Being unable to reach the end of a siege ladder during strategus battle because of ranged is fine huh? getting stopped each 2 steps. I'm standing still on a siege ladder more than walking.

Also you can't apply same rules to melee and ranged hits. They are just different.

no, because no bow/xbow has the cadence to profit from that with a free follow up hit.
Following this logic, you could increase stun from arablest to like 5 seconds...
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: HappyPhantom on September 30, 2013, 09:38:12 pm
We removed polestagger because it gave a ´´freehit´´ , so why when a archer/crossbowman/thrower hits me I'm unable to block for 2 seconds aswel?If you're in a melee fight and any type of ranged hits you they can easily get 1 if not 2 free hits off you because you are immobalised and can't block for 1 second after the arrow/bolt/throwing weapon has hit you. It's annoying enough you lose 70% to an crossbow bolt but they get to stun you for 2 seconds aswel.....

... go die in a fire.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on September 30, 2013, 10:05:08 pm
... go die in a fire.
Because you disagree about something with me in a game , you sir are a sadistic NA cunt.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on September 30, 2013, 10:07:28 pm
no, because no bow/xbow has the cadence to profit from that with a free follow up hit. if you manage to provide an assist to a teammate with it: good job. could have hit the teammate instead, so risk and reward. seems fine to me.
Except that the times of my teammates hitting me VS the amount of times they were actualy usefull and stunned the enemy, most of the time they don´t want to assist they just want as mutch kills as possible and don´t care about the risk since it doesn´t effect them.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 01, 2013, 12:13:31 am
I think that time of stun sould be depended on how much dmg you deliver to the enemy (or friend).

I'm talking mostly about bows, because it's strange for me that guy with weakest bow and arrows is stunning enemy for the same time that for eg. I'm doing it with +3 Long Bow and +3 Bodkins.
 
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on October 01, 2013, 12:14:45 am
I think that time of stun sould be depended on how much dmg you deliver to the enemy (or friend).

I'm talking mostly about bows, because it's strange for me that guy with weakest bow and arrows is stunning enemy for the same time that for eg. I'm doing it with +3 Long Bow and +3 Bodkins.
 
Ye see it´s unfair , remove it entirely!
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 01, 2013, 12:29:15 am
Make it so arrows pin you to objects.  Add fire and poison arrows.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Sir_Hans on October 01, 2013, 03:55:36 am
Make it so arrows pin you to objects.  Add fire and poison arrows.

don't forget too add blunt arrows with knockdown also.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: HappyPhantom on October 01, 2013, 04:40:51 am
don't forget too add blunt arrows with knockdown also.

With secondary mode so I can use it for melee.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Rumblood on October 01, 2013, 05:52:42 am
Except that the times of my teammates hitting me VS the amount of times they were actualy usefull and stunned the enemy, most of the time they don´t want to assist they just want as mutch kills as possible and don´t care about the risk since it doesn´t effect them.

Must be useless EU cunts.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 01, 2013, 07:55:54 am
Ye see it´s unfair , remove it entirely!
You drunk, go sleep, or if you are not drunk go and learn phisics
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: NuberT on October 01, 2013, 09:40:54 am
how about adding some randomness to stun in general? like 50% chance to stun or whatever, might increase fun in general and fun in groupfights a lot - less ganking etc.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Son Of Odin on October 01, 2013, 10:52:35 am
how about adding some randomness to stun in general? like 50% chance to stun or whatever, might increase fun in general and fun in groupfights a lot - less ganking etc.
You suggesting yet another random factor? I thought we wanted to get rid of them mostly...
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: RobertOfDrugsley on October 01, 2013, 11:27:33 am
I like ranged stun.

Sort of evens the playing field from time to time. If you're outnumbered or against a setup that you can't really do much about you can always hope for a friendly archer to interrupt someone for long enough for you to get a few punches in.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Torben on October 01, 2013, 12:47:15 pm
having stun depending on damage sounds great
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Sharpe on October 01, 2013, 12:48:42 pm
Because you disagree about something with me in a game , you sir are a sadistic NA cunt.

Good thing this sir isnt even from the continent of NA, and I'd say nerf ranged stun after we fix two handers being able to swing through solid objects like they don't exist.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Sharpe on October 01, 2013, 12:49:47 pm
Good thing this sir isnt even from the continent of NA, and I'd say nerf ranged stun after we fix two handers being able to swing through solid objects like they don't exist.

But I'd say make the stun dependent on the type of bow, like the shortbow; it shouldn't be able to stun someone in full Milanese plate; but a longbow should be able to.

Fuck Double Posting.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on October 01, 2013, 01:31:32 pm
Good thing this sir isnt even from the continent of NA, and I'd say nerf ranged stun after we fix two handers being able to swing through solid objects like they don't exist.
Deal, good thing not a single Euro guy who has posted in this thread (besides maybe blueknight, don't know), use 2hs.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on October 01, 2013, 01:54:56 pm
Il agree with you every class has it´s retarded mechanics, but I feel that archers and crossbowmen usualy just take extremely risky shots just to get the kill from my hands. Well why would you care if you hit you get the kill if you miss you don't die yourself but you get your teammate wounded/dead. The team arrows themself don't do alot of damage but the stun they still give always opens me up for the enemy infantry.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Tennenoth on October 01, 2013, 02:44:47 pm
I think that time of stun sould be depended on how much dmg you deliver to the enemy (or friend).

I'm talking mostly about bows, because it's strange for me that guy with weakest bow and arrows is stunning enemy for the same time that for eg. I'm doing it with +3 Long Bow and +3 Bodkins.
 

This is the entire reason I have "Bloody Peasant Archers" as my personal text. If the server was capable of running this alongside everything else & it was easy to code, then I would probably be for this.

A variable stagger dependent on bows is a nice idea. I have concerns about it causing newer players just trying the class to think it's completely rubbish (which I'm sure some people would be pleased about, stopping new players becoming archers) but as a low level archer anyway, they're quite rubbish & a stagger makes it reasonably worthwhile if they land a hit, allowing an ally to take down an enemy, it gives a sense of accomplishment, that you're actually helping the team win.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 01, 2013, 03:57:49 pm
Add a crossbow that shoots bees.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: NuberT on October 01, 2013, 04:13:13 pm
having stun depending on damage sounds great

I suggested that a long time ago, but eh people didn't like it: http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/overhaul-the-stun-system/ (a lot of the replies are gone, why?)
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Nightmare798 on October 01, 2013, 04:38:07 pm
inb4 Prpavi`s Buff archery response.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Kafein on October 01, 2013, 05:44:08 pm
no, because no bow/xbow has the cadence to profit from that with a free follow up hit. if you manage to provide an assist to a teammate with it: good job. could have hit the teammate instead, so risk and reward. seems fine to me.

From the victim's perspective, there's virtually no limit to the amount of ranged hits someone can take during the stun. I can get shot by an archer, then eat a bolt and be finished by a war dart, all that without ever being in control of my character from the instant I'm hit with the arrow. Ranged power growing superlinearly with numbers and all that...

In battle, the ability of polearms (which largely still exists with lower body stun) to polestun was detrimental to gameplay by being too strong as a support tool. It was really broken in a duel setting with the fastest polearms too, but other issues did exist. I don't see how range stun is any different in that regard.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: San on October 01, 2013, 05:53:46 pm
I just don't support instant death sentences for a single (non-headshot) hit. The stun is easily long enough to attract multiple melee and ranged fighters on that target. Polestagger was removed, but still given some unique traits to help in support roles. Knockdown was given a recovery option if one puts in the correct input fast enough. The fact that this can happen suddenly when there are too many ranged enemies to track and not enough cover spots makes it incredibly daunting. I think momentarily pausing enemies similar to current polearm attacks are just fine.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 01, 2013, 05:59:01 pm
It's just a fucking dumb mechanic that should be removed.

Your swings/blocks should be interrupted like any other hit, but you shouldn't be staggered.

I'd even say that it would be fine if you were "stun locked" for an extra half second (where you can't block or swing, but you can move, like if you block a very heavy weapon with your light weapon you can get stunned some times).  But the paulstagger is fucking dumb, remove it already.

An arrow isn't going to stagger you more than getting pummeled by a heavy weapon.  Pole stagger is gone, arrow stagger should be too.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on October 01, 2013, 10:17:06 pm
You drunk, go sleep, or if you are not drunk go and learn phisics
phisics? :lol: How is that even relevant to a game, we are discussing a GAME here not a real life scenario.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Rumblood on October 02, 2013, 01:23:56 am
I like ranged stun.

Sort of evens the playing field from time to time. If you're outnumbered or against a setup that you can't really do much about you can always hope for a friendly archer to interrupt someone for long enough for you to get a few punches in.

I like finding one lonely beastie I be all by himself with nobody being chased by 5 raging 2 handers, and stunning the lead chasers in turn until lonely beastie gets away, run across a group of teammates, or the group of haters gives up and runs into a building.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Adamar on October 02, 2013, 01:31:46 am
Polestagger was removed because of the 2 handed lobby it made 1 poleuser able to stunlock the enemy. It's just not the same thing when you need several ranged shooting at the same target completely sincronised to have the same effect. Quit trying to make the game easier and easier for ye when you're already in control of the battlefield.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 02, 2013, 07:29:53 am
look for how long Boromir got stunned after one arrow and stop QQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9nr1uUrNr0
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: BlueKnight on October 02, 2013, 02:49:43 pm
look for how long Boromir got stunned after one arrow and stop QQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9nr1uUrNr0
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on October 02, 2013, 05:16:03 pm
Once again what happens in movies or RL isn´t relevant , I just find it stupid that if im being ganked and I get hit in the face by a Danish I can block the next strike after it straight away but when an Noman Bow hits me and does 2% damage I´m stunned for a full 2 seconds.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Algarn on October 02, 2013, 05:23:29 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9nr1uUrNr0

Nerf stones.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 02, 2013, 05:25:16 pm
look for how long Boromir got stunned after one arrow and stop QQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9nr1uUrNr0


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Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Jona on October 02, 2013, 05:42:38 pm
The problem I have with ranged stun is when it glitches out your game by making you stagger backwards a full 10-15 ft in game. Sometimes you instantly go back to where you were standing (rubber band style), and the only difference is that you are completely disoriented and potentially motion sick, while other times you stay in your new teleported-to location... only problem is when you are in siege, on a wall, and your new location has no floor.

So yeah, I guess this is can be a big problem.

Only times I ever get tossed around in melee is when facing pure strength 2h builds... and even then I will rarely get catapulted around from a single hit... does happen much more often from ranged.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Rumblood on October 02, 2013, 11:32:33 pm
From the victim's perspective, there's virtually no limit to the amount of ranged hits someone can take during the stun. I can get shot by an archer, then eat a bolt and be finished by a war dart, all that without ever being in control of my character from the instant I'm hit with the arrow. Ranged power growing superlinearly with numbers and all that...

In battle, the ability of polearms (which largely still exists with lower body stun) to polestun was detrimental to gameplay by being too strong as a support tool. It was really broken in a duel setting with the fastest polearms too, but other issues did exist. I don't see how range stun is any different in that regard.

Because it took a 3vs1 for you to get killed in that manner? Polestun let you do it in a 1vs1. I'm sorry, but if you think you should ever be able to argue balance because of what happens to you in a 3vs1, your opinion on the matter can be auto-moved to the Chamber of Tears.

The problem I have with ranged stun is when it glitches out your game by making you stagger backwards a full 10-15 ft in game. Sometimes you instantly go back to where you were standing (rubber band style), and the only difference is that you are completely disoriented and potentially motion sick, while other times you stay in your new teleported-to location... only problem is when you are in siege, on a wall, and your new location has no floor.

So yeah, I guess this is can be a big problem.

Only times I ever get tossed around in melee is when facing pure strength 2h builds... and even then I will rarely get catapulted around from a single hit... does happen much more often from ranged.

Never seen that in years of playing. Sounds more like you have a network problem on your end.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Jona on October 02, 2013, 11:47:07 pm
Because it took a 3vs1 for you to get killed in that manner? Polestun let you do it in a 1vs1. I'm sorry, but if you think you should ever be able to argue balance because of what happens to you in a 3vs1, your opinion on the matter can be auto-moved to the Chamber of Tears.

Never seen that in years of playing. Sounds more like you have a network problem on your end.

Or just cuz I have low str?

Pretty sure there are many secretive disadvantages to playing an agi build... less IF/health = increased stagger cuz ur a whimp and all.. yep, I'd buy it.

And people do see this occur to me sometimes (maybe not when I rubberband back and forth) but when I am permanently thrown I will see comments in chat sometimes.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Kafein on October 03, 2013, 12:38:07 am
Because it took a 3vs1 for you to get killed in that manner? Polestun let you do it in a 1vs1. I'm sorry, but if you think you should ever be able to argue balance because of what happens to you in a 3vs1, your opinion on the matter can be auto-moved to the Chamber of Tears.

This argument is baloney when dicussing ranged. Most of the time if there's someone shooting in your general direction, there are other people shooting in your general direction. This kind of 3vs1 happens all the time.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: HappyPhantom on October 03, 2013, 02:03:35 am
Or just cuz I have low str?

Pretty sure there are many secretive disadvantages to playing an agi build... less IF/health = increased stagger cuz ur a whimp and all.. yep, I'd buy it.

And people do see this occur to me sometimes (maybe not when I rubberband back and forth) but when I am permanently thrown I will see comments in chat sometimes.

Happens to me in DTV quite often when I get smashed; haven't had it happen on other game modes.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Rumblood on October 03, 2013, 05:56:45 am
This argument is baloney when dicussing ranged. Most of the time if there's someone shooting in your general direction, there are other people shooting in your general direction. This kind of 3vs1 happens all the time.

No, you're argument that fighting 3 people should be an even chance for the 1 person is baloney  :idea:
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Tibe on October 03, 2013, 07:26:50 am
I find the ranged stun rather fine. It would be retarded, if you get shot and all you do is "meh" and keep swinging. Its a supportthing. Acctually shooting an enemy who is getting ganked by your teammates is not as easy as it sounds. I say, definately keep it, even suggesting this was a bad idea imo.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Kafein on October 03, 2013, 09:35:10 am
No, your argument that fighting 3 people should be an even chance for the 1 person is baloney  :idea:

By that logic there's virtually no point choosing a melee class. Ho wait...

What I'm saying is that due to the nature of ranged, getting 3v1 with the 3 being ranged is so much easier, it should not give such a huge advantage. The same thing with melee requires that one enemy has to be isolated from the rest and that two allies move together with you.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Bulzur on October 03, 2013, 12:17:31 pm
By that logic there's virtually no point choosing a melee class. Ho wait...

What I'm saying is that due to the nature of ranged, getting 3v1 with the 3 being ranged is so much easier, it should not give such a huge advantage. The same thing with melee requires that one enemy has to be isolated from the rest and that two allies move together with you.

You're forgetting one little thing here. Yes, melees can't block projectiles, but the projectiles aren't always hitting the melee player either.

Comparing polestun, where the melee can't even block, and arrowstun, where the archers have to aim, and shoot in actually  a precise order to keep that stun, thus rendering them blind to anything else, i believe that's a flaw.


Only thing i'd find a decent suggestion is removing, completely removing, arrow stun when it does 1 damage. It would get rid of all thoses pewpew normal arrows, getting valour for shooting a hundred times melee players rushing to them. While you're at it, don't give them points for that... 1 point for 1 damage is retarded, look at thoses HA with normal arrows, shooting at armored horses all round, and getting valour, for being useless...
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on October 03, 2013, 01:46:29 pm
I find the ranged stun rather fine. It would be retarded, if you get shot and all you do is "meh" and keep swinging. Its a supportthing. Acctually shooting an enemy who is getting ganked by your teammates is not as easy as it sounds. I say, definately keep it, even suggesting this was a bad idea imo.
But when I take a greatmaul to the face I fall and can roll over straight away , and when a Danish hits me I go meh and slash right away.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on October 03, 2013, 05:11:02 pm
No
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Akynos on October 04, 2013, 04:29:46 pm



if you manage to provide an assist to a teammate with it: good job. could have hit the teammate instead, so risk and reward. seems fine to me.

So how about we make my GLB stun again, I mean, I often have teammates around me and I'm full str, so if I hit the enemy and not my teammates thats ''good job'' right? ''Risk and reward'' as you call it?

Oh, and make it a knockdown as well, because I don't have a thrust so I'm disadvantaged by this and am therefore more likely to hit a mate with a swing. Risk and reward yo?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on October 04, 2013, 04:36:31 pm
This thread seems entertaining
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Rumblood on October 04, 2013, 05:08:18 pm


So how about we make my GLB stun again, I mean, I often have teammates around me and I'm full str, so if I hit the enemy and not my teammates thats ''good job'' right? ''Risk and reward'' as you call it?

Oh, and make it a knockdown as well, because I don't have a thrust so I'm disadvantaged by this and am therefore more likely to hit a mate with a swing. Risk and reward yo?

(click to show/hide)

Good job! It can now offically be moved to Chamber of Tears.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 04, 2013, 05:13:28 pm
ok, but what go you think talking about removing stun from ranged? Removing it totall is a nonsence, we should talk more about duration of stun.
Every single attack in this game is stunning enemy, why you want to remove it from ranged?

Agi whores are sometimes so fast that you can't do shit against 2 of them, but you are able to kill a single one without getting hit. Same thing is with archers.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Gurnisson on October 04, 2013, 05:22:19 pm
Just Darian being silly and calling it stun when it's the stagger which is being discussed. stun =\= stagger
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Rebelyell on October 04, 2013, 05:22:39 pm
Stun based on % dmg that you deal to enemy with resonable cap it is what I love to see.

stun is last thing that I care about when archer hit me for 1/3 of my hp but is retarded when some pesant stun you with NERF BOw

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Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 04, 2013, 05:25:03 pm
stun based on % dmg that you deal to enemy with resonable cap

stun is last thing that I care about when archer hit me for 1/3 of my hp but is retarded when some pesant stun you with NERF BOw

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I would like to see ppl shooting with sub-machine things like those. If they introduce something like that i'll resurrect GraveFlower ^^
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on October 04, 2013, 05:31:27 pm
Well stun or stagger , this shit prevents me from doing anything for 2 seconds after being hit.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 04, 2013, 05:33:23 pm
cry more, or stop it and start playing like a real girl and cry while playing XD
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: BlueKnight on October 04, 2013, 05:43:04 pm
cry more, or stop it and start playing like a real girl and cry while playing XD

My sense of humour may not be the best but I see I'm not the only one ^^
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Rebelyell on October 04, 2013, 05:47:33 pm
My sense of humour may not be the best but I see I'm not the only one ^^

Archers are not human
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: XyNox on October 04, 2013, 05:49:41 pm
nerv ARCHA remove shield buff 2h gief lazer beamz to greatsword
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: XyNox on October 04, 2013, 06:09:20 pm
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NO U !1!1

Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on October 04, 2013, 06:25:01 pm
lol, pm terror
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Fartface on October 10, 2013, 04:42:12 pm
cry more, or stop it and start playing like a real girl and cry while playing XD
Id go archer if I realy wanted to play like a girl.
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 10, 2013, 06:27:49 pm
so start playing an archer and cry more  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on October 10, 2013, 06:27:55 pm
Is archery something that girls do?
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 10, 2013, 06:32:51 pm
to be a good a good archer you have to be a cunt, not girl XD
Title: Re: Remove ranged stun.
Post by: Riddaren on October 10, 2013, 09:11:19 pm
A lot of improvements could be done about this.

First of all it makes no sense that only projectiles stun people.
It should happen when taking damage from both melee and ranged and it should be based on damage dealt.

Secondly, why not make the target become slowed down instead of stunned?
And again, how much and for how long you are slowed down should be based on damage received.