Nerf their range (they outrange 1h)
Nerf their duration (they last longer than their animation)
Nerf their arc (oftentimes the foot does not hit but the kick lands)
I realise this thread has been made 50 times without any word at all from the devs, but hey, maybe this time will be the one :)
thanks, corsair
native?
native?
native?
native?
native?
Why not just make kicks like they are in native?
You're aware that the kicks in native allowed for you to kick again before the stun was complete?Kicks in native have the same cooldown they do in cRPG, unless things have changed in the last couple patches (I haven't played much recently).
it's obvious most people agree that kicks ruin gameplay for 1h shielders and make the 's-key kick spam' metagame far too easy for 2h / polearm players
we just need the devs to nerf them now :)
(when i say nerf them i'd like to reinforce i mean reduce the duration, the range, and the area of effect. If you have to give them back blocking whilst kicking to rebalance this, i could live with that personally, i'd imagine a lot of other people would be able to as well)
Kicks are fine as they are right now and the most recent changes were reasonable. Unless you got really unlucky you could still block and avoid getting hit whilst kicking.
As of now if you actually anticipate a kick you WILL get a free hit on someone. The increase in range is the logical trade off for that. It's high risk high reward (Please spare me your complaints about how you think it's low risk high reward just because you continuously run into everyone's kicks because that's something you can change yourself)
cmp changed the kick with wse so it's his responsibility and only he can revise it. find a medium to talk to him about it.
is it even possible to contact cmp / chadz? o.OThey were both in IRC the last time I visited.
Why not just make kicks like they are in native?
You're aware that the kicks in native allowed for you to kick again before the stun was complete?You're aware that you're talking nonsense?
You're aware that you're talking nonsense?
Native kicks add another layer of depth to duels, forcing you to take footwork even more into consideration - and giving you another weapon.
kicks ruin gameplay for 1h shielders
Please don't turn this into a drama thread, because; as much as kicks are avoidable if you are ultra-experienced in the profession of avoiding them; they are still broken both visually and gameplaywise. Don't spoil the thread as it might serve a purpose. I know it's just a fool's hope, but please. Let the discussion remain serious.
really a 1h/shielder class has never been stronger and yet you still arent satisfied and ask a nerf for one of the rare counters to your class. Shamefur Dispray!! :mrgreen:
they still were kinda cheap in native duels; if someone had a ping of (i believe but im not sure of the exact number) above 60, they could block on every kick, meaning they could spam them with no risk :PYou could also consider that people with a high ping have trouble fighting people with half their ping or less, especially if the opponent's weapon is faster. Maybe that little advantage of blocking while kicking isn't so cheap if you think about it.
was a little bit cheap that this happened
You're aware that you're talking nonsense?
Native kicks add another layer of depth to duels, forcing you to take footwork even more into consideration - and giving you another weapon.
I realise this thread has been made 50 times without any word at all from the devs, but hey, maybe this time will be the one :)
"layer of depth"e:e:(click to show/hide)
e:e:
This wasn't really worth the polite post I had previously made to address this. You are playing single-player and complaining about the kick delay. Try the same thing on a multiplayer server with bots. The AI is still braindead, but the kicks will have the same delay as cRPG (barring any recent cRPG patches). Jesus fucking Christ.
This would be forgivable if it was just a simple mistake, but the smug tone of your post combined with the obvious fact that you haven't played enough Native to comment knowledgeably on it makes for a really obnoxious combination.
Why not just make kicks like they are in native?
You're aware that the kicks in native allowed for you to kick again before the stun was complete?
When I see "native" I think of the vanilla single-player game. Guess I'm obnoxious because of that.
Why on Earth would you not think of vanilla multiplayer?
Why on Earth would you not think of vanilla multiplayer?Because we're playing cRPG singleplayer here, so it makes sense to think of native singleplayer.
Guess I'm obnoxious because of that.
You can kick more than two people if standing next to each other.
As you said, the area of effect (radius) is ridiculous on kicks, and the "hang time" is bad too (animation stopped, leg is hanging in the air and you still get kicked if you come anywhere in the area of effect).
(click to show/hide)
Gifs of kicks!(click to show/hide)
Gifs of kicks!I don't know why you perceive kicking people during their attack as a problem, that is exactly the point of the kick. People walk backwards when defending, move forward when attacking, which is why you attack, he blocks, you anticipate how he will move in on you and place the kick there. Kicking him before or during his attack. That is just how it works, even in Native. Of course apart from that I fully agree with the sentiment.(click to show/hide)
Nudge is (badly) done in the module system by me while the kick changes are done in WSE2 by cmp. That are two different levels of implementation, the latter being the higher(engine) one. Only cmp can do wse stuff, so he is the only one who can change kick mechanic. There can be crude workarounds be done with the MS though but I dunno if there are any MS coder devs active atm apart from DTV.
Nudge is (badly) done in the module system by me while the kick changes are done in WSE2 by cmp. That are two different levels of implementation, the latter being the higher(engine) one. Only cmp can do wse stuff, so he is the only one who can change kick mechanic. There can be crude workarounds be done with the MS though but I dunno if there are any MS coder devs active atm apart from DTV.It is not the process that matters, what matters is the result of the work and the professional approach.
Nudge is (badly) done in the module system by me while the kick changes are done in WSE2 by cmp. That are two different levels of implementation, the latter being the higher(engine) one. Only cmp can do wse stuff, so he is the only one who can change kick mechanic. There can be crude workarounds be done with the MS though but I dunno if there are any MS coder devs active atm apart from DTV.
Seriously? Infestation of little kingrimms, 15/30 shielder builds with tiny damaging weaponswhich can hardly be blockedwhile having superior athleticsand almost unbreakable,360 autoblockshield. And you want kicks to be nerfed? Begone with you, phool!
skilled 15/30 shielder with steel pick and elite cav shield.
:lol:
Well Kafein, maybe you should stop using heaviest shield in this mod and pick something lighter. Buckler maybe. You are so narrow minded when it comes to balance discussion, it hurts. I remember when you used to argue about 1Hcav on TW forums, just because you played cav atm. Look at other players a bit, look which weapons and build are dominant atm and then come to conclusions.
...I would trade fighting Rollicks or Nokeyboard for Danior or Alonza any day.Fighting Nokeyboard is like signing your own death sentence. He doesnt do that much dmg himself, but damn those knockdowns all the time while 3 other enemies are around. Besides he realy knows how/when to block and even a normal attack on him perfectly timed often is just not good enough as he moves to the side and spams and once again you land on the floor.
... But I have a problem losing to the likes of kinngrimm because I know they are dead meat without their shield.:lol: that made my day, well i guess you need to get yourself an axe or keep on trying to shoot me in the back. In the end, if you got a problem .. adapt, wasnt that one of the things you suggested?
Nokeyboard uses Quarter Staff which is simply too fast. For some reason 100 speed polearms are a lot faster than 100 speed one handers...
I'm glad that more people haven't figured out that fast polearms are the way to go. But they are abusing fast shielder builds, today I've seen at least 5 rondel my old friends on siege server...
Anyway, I don't mind losing to the likes of Nokeyboard because I know he's very good player who knows everything (includes manual blocking). But I have problem losing to the likes of kinngrimm because I know they are dead meat without their shield.
The only safe way to fight someone who kicks a lot is to stay out of their range. So you either need a long weapon, or if you have a short 1-hand you have to right swing/stab them to death.
Jumping works too and grants you a free headshot.while this may work at times
The problem with kicks is that they break the game reality. Since the kicking area and duration has absolutely nothing to do with the kicker's leg, you really have no idea whether you're in a safe zone or not.
After someone kicks, you can't approach them either as their kick may still be active. Because of the long duration, you really have no idea.
...
Saying you have a problem losing to kinngrim is like me saying I have a problem losing to the likes of Varadin because I hit him 5 times in a row but he's still alive then he oneshots me when I bounce on his armor.
Kinngrimm might be a shameless lobbyist and of course his opinion is mostly disregarded because of that but at least he's moderately sane.
Varadin is a native player and can block very well when he wants. Kinngrimm is just a player who abuses whatever he finds suitable. Can't block manually, have awful footwork for someone with 10 ATH, can't even feint fast enough. But yes, he kills me a lot. Mostly in gank but 1vs1 he gets in your face which combined with ping difference between him and me and famous Warband's crappy collision detection (players going through models ftw) grants him a free hit WHICH CAN'T BE BLOCKED.
If it was up to me, I would completely render his build pointless by either nerfing blunt/pierce damage of one handed weapons or simply raise STR requirement so he can't have more than 24 AGI and use pick/mace/whatever damaging.
Oh really? He believes you're going to take over cRPG development and port it to M&B2, transferring character database so he could continue to grind to whatever level he has envisioned. Who's insane now?u mad? take a chillpill or whatever other medication you normally get against your dellusions
I was asking for people to continue the development of this mod in general not a particular person specifically. As i see it, it would be a shame not to do so, when there has already been so much effort and love put into this game. If that is insane, well then i am insane and you are the sane one who doesnt want that to happen as it seems. Differentiating , is one of the big accomplishments of human logic in my eyes, to get our perpsectives straight, you should try it at times.
Not to mention the whole quitting and coming back ordeal. I did it very quietly, only bothering Cooties to resurrect characters just like everyone else who deleted them in the past. He knew he's gonna get dick if he go to Cooties, so he went to good old Harald instead and asked for full retrieval.
Again, you asume false. I did get in touch with Cooties, while we have different opinions and stances onto several strategus based political aspects, i always had the feeling he is a as you would put it "sane" person, which responses to logic and also appart from that i see him as intelligent. So while i respect him and i hope to some extent that maybe the other way round, too :lol: we have differances in Strategus. When i asked him about what Tenne wrote in the faction hall thread of Wolves, if that would be possible, he arranged that, which i am gratefull for. So this is but a human thing, what happend there, nothing sinister i could see at least.
Not to mention that he went into fight with his old clannies, demanding to get leadership back after months of absence.
You really are delusional you know? You had not been present for wahtever went down there and still you judge loudly, i prefer to solve and discuss these things with the people who concerns it, you are not one of those. As you but try to put mud here onto me i see myself in the need to clarify, it wasnt me who attacked in strategus a former clan friend and it was not me who ruined for 50 players 1 million XP in a fun fight where Nords as they told me later, repeatidly asked Odysseus not to kill the last remaining dude who could take up the flags again so we could continue. It was not me who started a flame thread in the forum, which in the end hurt Wolves more then myself or the new found clan Fenris. Before all of that, i didnt demand anything from Wolves, but i told them i would like to have a fief for my epen title and i would prefer the old flag over the new one, i told them what i didnt like, but in the same way as i talked openly about that, i congratulated them to their accomplishments since i was gone and i felt proud that my offsprings in a sense, that they kept going.
That later on, i quited Wolves, had been to many factors not only those i told above, there was amattor where people had been removed from the steam group, some of them now lost forever as i cant reac hthem otehrwise(some of those i were abel to recover and are now part of Fenris) and a again a few other things.
All this shit you havent witnessed Leshma, and you have no rigth to judge about it, if you do anyhow, well it prooves only that you bare any relation to reality and i may even concider you a douchbag
AND formost, all that shit has nothing at all to do with kicks
:rolleyes:
....
Kinngrimm might be a shameless lobbyist and of course his opinion is mostly disregarded because of that but at least he's moderately sane.I cant argue there, it is all a matter of opinion and perspective. I am not in the slightest hurt by this :D as i see it wise to not listen to everything i have to say. Not because i would be allways wrong, but because i cant be always right. Too many things i may miss in my own judgment calls.
I mean if you compare someone with just a warhammer to someone with just an awlpike I wouldn't say the warhammer guy is OP. Even with a shield, you don't have the stab and shorter reach than a lot of swords. The damage and random knockdown can be a pain though and quite unrealistic.
Downblock, forward, downblock, feint, attack, blocked, downblock, avoid kick, feint, attack, blocked, downblock, forward, attack, hit, knockdown, hit while on ground, win.
Pretty much every 1vs1 I had vs 2D pole players today.
You two-hit pretty much every 2D pole player with a +3 warhammer ? Also you always knock them down first hit even though the kd chance is like 18%. I'm not saying a +3 warhammer is a bad weapon. It certainly isn't a bad 1h by any means with that damage output and ability to stab. I'm just saying that your "average" scenario is not average at all.
How the hell did this thread go from talking about the horrible kick mechanics to warhammer vs awlpike debate? You couldn't find two less similar weapons to compare.
..., kicks and hiltslashes aren't common as they claim. ...So changing them shouldn't be a big deal, as they are not used often anyways.
So changing them shouldn't be a big deal, as they are not used often anyways.
Where's the logic there? If they're not commonly used, they shouldn't be nerfed, that's more logical, yes?You are making my point.
However, kicks are quite often used and the reach and duration is beyond retarded (saying this as a notorious kicker since it was first implemented in native...)
How many times you get kicked daily? If you get kicked often, you probably run straight to your opponents. I rarely see kicks, even from those very well armored behemoths with mauls. That's because kicking is risky in a game where everyone opens an attack with a stab.
Contrary to popular shielder whine, kicks and hiltslashes aren't common as they claim. Knockdown with one handed blunt weapons, on the other hand...
Also, for the lasy fuckers, try an stop running in a straight line
...
Ive never seen u kick once Kinngrim!! not once! :lol:
I do kick rarely, i never forced myself to train it and use it regularly to include it into my playstyle.
Your play style is so obvious, an your really easy to read, even with your 10 ath you need to work on your footwork :)
I try not to make science out of this game, i am doing ok and i know i am not the best player and i am ok with that too.
A play style that relies on facehuggin an spamming left swings is bound to get fucked by kickers, even if they reset it back to native settings 8-)
If you think i do mostly leftswing, then you do know less and asume more then reality presents, which in the end will be my advantage. Again, i think i am doing ok. If Leshma or others think it is because of high level, gear, but cant be because there is some personal skill involved, well everyone has his illusions, i do have mine too :wink: .
... a viable and doable solution codeingwise....Changing 2 variable settings for angle and range of kicks isn't a viable/doable solution codingwise?
Actually a kick recovery via a, d or even s double tab is a viable and doable solution codeingwise. But the reaction window would have to be tight(prolly harsher than kd) and that might favour low pingers. Discuss the pro&contra and then Tydeus can implement it if he cares.
Changing 2 variable settings for angle and range of kicks isn't a viable/doable solution codingwise?
Or is it about waiting on cmp to change sth in WSE2? If the later, i wait gladly a little longer, aslong in the end we have a good solution and not only a "doable" solution.
Just revert kicks back to how they were a year ago. Only pros could use and be effective with them
That's cmp stuff with an eta next pope election. Doable in real-time is only what us lesser beings can do in the module system.
To play devil's advocate, it's possible kingrimm is just as bad as you say he is, but does that mean his argument about kicks being broken is invalid? Why not both?
I might sound like an asshole saying this, But Leshma has no right to call anyone bad, being beaten by ras frenzy.
Being beaten once against a katana spammer with that kind of armor ?
Equipment was her choice. She could have used quarterstaff and heavier armor.
Besides, for all her pride as a "pro" manual blocker, she was shit at it.
But Leshma has at least defeated Raz once in the past, therefore Leshma is also the best manual blocker the world has ever seen.
Also choosing bad equipment makes you bad at playing the game somehow. Your logic.
And I'm here to defend bragging as a constitutional right
...and the angle, atm you can without a problem kick 2 people who stand next to each other, with wiggling the mouse and rotation and kicking out of the movement some have achieved mircale like skills to put the angle to good use, so that even if you try to get out of reach to the left/right through straving/circling, you have nearly no chance, not to get kicked. This is increased by duel like situations or limited environments.
just reduce the range (I mean the area effect, because sometimes I receive the kick when I´m standing beside of some guy)
and the duration (his leg is already on the ground again? So what, you still get knocked back by magical powers)
...
The angle is problematic, but the real problem with angle IMO is that you can move the kick effect while it's active.thats what i tried to express by "wiggling the mouse", as often you do put things in better argumentativ forms, where i didn't quite succeed.