cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Grumbs on September 17, 2013, 01:53:57 am

Title: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Grumbs on September 17, 2013, 01:53:57 am
What would happen if we front loaded the gains from looms? I think its the wrong way around how it is now. Should be the main bonus from +1, then a bit more from +2 and finally a tiny gain with +3. As it is now it only serves to buff guys that are already very experienced at the game, and nerf guys that are new and trying to get better. We should make the game more welcoming to new guys and take out some of the artificial buffs that make the game easier for guys simply because they played longer

The economy would change a bit and loom points would become less valuable but it would be worth it for making the game less about gear/build crutching and more about how you play
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 17, 2013, 07:47:04 am
I would even prefer it if you could only loom an item once but have to choose a benefit.
For example heirloom a Heavy Lance, you could go for extra damage or extra speed. That would create even more different items.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Fartface on September 17, 2013, 11:10:39 am
Quote from: Grumpy_Nic on September 17, 2013, 07:47:04 am
I would even prefer it if you could only loom an item once but have to choose a benefit.
For example heirloom a Heavy Lance, you could go for extra damage or extra speed. That would create even more different items.
Certain weapons could get realy strong because of that , for an example katana with 44 cut damage. Great maul with 85 speed.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Angantyr on September 17, 2013, 11:43:04 am
+1

Also, make looms less powerful across the board.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Vermilion on September 17, 2013, 12:07:45 pm
Quote from: Grumbs on September 17, 2013, 01:53:57 am
What would happen if we front loaded the gains from looms? I think its the wrong way around how it is now. Should be the main bonus from +1, then a bit more from +2 and finally a tiny gain with +3. As it is now it only serves to buff guys that are already very experienced at the game, and nerf guys that are new and trying to get better. We should make the game more welcoming to new guys and take out some of the artificial buffs that make the game easier for guys simply because they played longer

The economy would change a bit and loom points would become less valuable but it would be worth it for making the game less about gear/build crutching and more about how you play

If you did that you might as well just remove looms and make the starting stats slightly better.

Too many people have too many +3 items as it is. They could then have triple the amount of loomed items. This would make looms drop in price rapidly, and everyone would have them.

As an extreme example Erzengel claims to have 29 +3 items in his "shop" and 6 looms. That would mean he had the potential for 93 +1 items. Which would be enough for him to have 18 characters with +1 complete armor set and a +1 weapon.

It would also affect strat, the PP system is designed on increasing the cost to go from -2 to +3 exponentially. People would just stop at +1 and you could have a village which could outfit an army.

As someone who plays without looms, I find my current advantage that I can use any weapon/class (some days I do better with different weapons). If +1 gave the biggest/most effective improvement everyone would be able to switch between weapons and I would join the league of loomers. Hence my point "you might as well just remove looms".


IMO A better system would be one where a loom improves 1 stat at the cost reducing of 1 or 2 others. For example if you chose to increase speed it would increase by +3 but damage would decrease by -2 pierce. Make it so you can loom an item as many times as you like but each time the reduction gets slightly greater, so you can't just loom each stat.

This would reduce the number of looms available, make weapons more personalised and increase the diversity of the market place.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: BlueKnight on September 17, 2013, 12:48:57 pm
Quote from: Grumpy_Nic on September 17, 2013, 07:47:04 am
I would even prefer it if you could only loom an item once but have to choose a benefit.
For example heirloom a Heavy Lance, you could go for extra damage or extra speed. That would create even more different items.
Heavy glance sucks compared to normal lance. Somebody should do something about it imho.

Also looming item in order to reduce the upkeep could be a good thing.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 17, 2013, 01:02:19 pm
Quote from: BlueKnight on September 17, 2013, 12:48:57 pm
Also looming item in order to reduce the upkeep could be a good thing.

This I forgot to mention. On the other hand this would make rich persons even richer and richer and richer...
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: BlueKnight on September 17, 2013, 01:12:12 pm
Quote from: Grumpy_Nic on September 17, 2013, 01:02:19 pm
This I forgot to mention. On the other hand this would make rich persons even richer and richer and richer...
Depends on how strong this upkeep-decreasing would be.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Switchtense on September 17, 2013, 03:05:20 pm
just increase upkeep with every loom-level

also maybe make people pay some gold to loom an item, like 25k for +1, 50k for +2 and 100k for +3

that way people would not instantly loom items themselves, but rather try to get items from the market
overall loom items amount would not increase that rapidly and the prices wouldnt drop quickly
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: RobertOfDrugsley on September 17, 2013, 03:53:58 pm
I guess the effect would be that players in stead of having one +3 piece of equipment might have three +1 pieces.

Guess that would mean that fewer players have all their loomed equipment ruined from changes or nerfs, so +1.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Jarlek on September 17, 2013, 06:28:57 pm
Totally agree.

The higher the loom, the worse the bonus (but still a bonus). +3 items would remain the same they are now, it's just +1/+2 that would be better, making it more fair to new people.

Example (with longsword):
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on September 17, 2013, 06:34:58 pm
We could also just remove looms, upkeep, gold, and grinding.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Tomas on September 17, 2013, 06:36:14 pm
@Vermillion - Who cares if someone has 90 or more +1 looms.  They can only use 5-9 of them at once and after that is is just about extra choices.



+1 to the OP.  XP gain is less significant at higher levels so why not loom gains as well
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Torben on September 17, 2013, 06:40:50 pm
having the different loom levels elevate different stats,  with the higher levels expressing the commonly as "most usefull" known stats was kinda nice,  like back in the days when horses had the "heavy" tag at level one,  giving them more hp, armor and charge,  but loosing those characteristics for speed or maneuverability later on.

 
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Phew on September 17, 2013, 07:07:02 pm
The problem lies in how weapon stats are presented in this game; damage values are all integers, and speed is also all integers but has a small range (most weapons are between 90-100 speed).

If damage values were allowed to be non-integer, and the speed stat was reset to something more meaningful (i.e. attacks per minute for a character with 100 wpf, for instance), then it opens the door for more balanced heirloom upgrades, both between different levels and different items.

If the above was implemented, then each heirloom level could be +3% damage and +1% speed, for instance. This would also fix the fact that certain weapons get better heirloom stats than others (i.e. Knightly Arming Sword gets +3 cut +2 pierce and +1 speed, but the nearly-identical Spathion gets +3 cut +3 pierce and +1 speed).
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 17, 2013, 07:26:52 pm
I think this would have been a good idea initially, but not now.  I think there is a little too much emphasis on pixel crack in Crpg and not enough about individual skill and character specialization.  If +1's and +2's are more important than getting to +3, then it would have made a lot more sense for me to put my limited loompoints into +1'ing more items rather than masterworking a select few.

It is nice (for keeping a playerbase) that looms give you an advantage, because it keeps people grinding and playing (rather than playing for fun and possibly getting bored and leaving...but that's very similar to work or a task).  But at the same time, that hurdle can keep people from downloading the game, or sticking with it once they have it.  So I can't really say if looms have helped the population or hurt it.

I personally would have preferred if there were no looms in game, but that's just me.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Vermilion on September 17, 2013, 07:28:12 pm
Quote from: Tomas on September 17, 2013, 06:36:14 pm
@Vermillion - Who cares if someone has 90 or more +1 looms.  They can only use 5-9 of them at once and after that is is just about extra choices.

If you read the rest of the post I explain that.

It will reduce the value of the looms to the point where everyone will be running around with a complete +1 set... Which completely removes the purpose of the loom. You might as well just improve all the weapon stats by +2/3 and remove the loom system.
Title: Re: Buff +1 and +2 Items
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 17, 2013, 08:56:01 pm
Reset everything. Peasant wars. Much more fun