cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: LEKIS on September 08, 2013, 03:29:12 pm

Title: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: LEKIS on September 08, 2013, 03:29:12 pm
Sooooooooo, I bought a rather "shit" gun.
It is my first gun except for those 10Dollar springloaded guns from Turkey.

It's a Classic Army Bushmaster Predator (m16), and I'm wondering if there is any chance I can only upgrade the spring (for starters) without upgrading a whole lot of things.
It's around 290-330 FPS and i would like it to be atleast like 350 every shot.

I can't find anything on google about upgrading it, nothing useful atleast.

Link to le gun: http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=37499 (http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=37499) (without the gay orange safety thing though.)

Link to le first game: http://www.farmengames.com/games/stalker-human-nature (http://www.farmengames.com/games/stalker-human-nature)

Thanks if there is anyone who can actually help me.
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Tot. on September 08, 2013, 03:54:16 pm
Upgrading only spring is bad idea. You most definitely should upgrade the cylinder, the cylinder head and the piston head + nozzle, which isn't expensive and it would allow you to use ie. M110 (~400fps).

Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: LEKIS on September 08, 2013, 07:18:35 pm
I Believe it's a 90's spring in it.
Isin't it possible to upgrade it to either 110 or 115 without upgrading a whole bunch of things?
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Rumblood on September 08, 2013, 07:34:21 pm
So you are trying to upgrade from "sting" to "welt"?  :lol:
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Tot. on September 08, 2013, 10:13:27 pm
Quote from: Halfdan_stenman on September 08, 2013, 07:18:35 pm
Isin't it possible to upgrade it to either 110 or 115 without upgrading a whole bunch of things?

It's certainly physically possible to put any spring you want in there. It might even work for a short while. I wouldn't put any stronger spring into stock CA, let alone 110.

If you want a cheap, one-part upgrade for it then just buy a tight bore barrel (ie. Systema). It's a must-buy anyway at some point and it does increase fps a bit too.
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Torost on September 08, 2013, 11:36:26 pm
I have never understood the fascination with airsoft and other replica guns.
Not trying to put anyone down, just wondering what the hell are they usefull for.
Are they just for fun? Can get kids into alot of trouble....
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: LEKIS on September 08, 2013, 11:41:17 pm
Soon to be 19, full time job, car, apartment, gf etcetc! I've left the kid part.

It's basically a fps but irl. Two or more teams, objective and points. Never played but that sounds appealing to me :)
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on September 09, 2013, 12:43:29 am
It's fun enough when you actually do it with a large group. Used to do it when I was much smaller, but I could only afford one with a springy thing while most others who took it seriously had those gaspowered thingies or something.
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: AntiBlitz on September 09, 2013, 01:08:10 am
Quote from: Torost on September 08, 2013, 11:36:26 pm
I have never understood the fascination with airsoft and other replica guns.
Not trying to put anyone down, just wondering what the hell are they usefull for.
Are they just for fun? Can get kids into alot of trouble....


Airsoft is a way of essentially LARPing with toys that are meant to look realistic, teaming up with friends to play massive battle against one another.  The difference between this and paintball is the fact that, the majority of paintball guns do not look realistic enough for people who want the hardcore look of military simulation.  Airsoft provides this look while remaining cheaper in many aspects, since paintballs can cost nearly $70 dollars for a thousand rounds of the good shit, and a thousand rounds goes quick when your spraying it at 20 bps, a can of pellets goes for what like $15 for five thousand shots.

The only cons of airsoft is the fact that the magazines on many weapons have like 600 fucking shots, which is highly unrealistic.  Also a man who spent like $700 dollars on some crazy gun which shoots air will out perform you while your cheap ass is using a fucking electric gun with a spring that cant shoot nearly as far or as many rounds per minute.
In this video the guy with the m4 variant(idk what kind of weapon it is, specifically) shoots like 300 fucking rounds from one simple magazine, while the poor bastard with the ak is stuck on semi auto. BTW at the 7minute mark, i will literally fly to your country and smack you in the mouth if you hold your handgun like that, ffs that is the worst hand placement i have ever seen, like he wants his fucking fingers to get ripped off by the slide or something if it was real.  Worst part is, this is some sort of airsoft pro or some shit, who prolly has never shot a handgun properly in his life.

If you want to truly be realistic which was what i was going to do a few years back, its incredibly expensive is this below.  You cant get much more simulation than this without shooting real firearms with a different firing pin and powder rounds(IE, also really fucking expensive).  A paintball shoots a .68mm which is large, while these shoots a .43mm which is smaller and allows the barrel as well as the others components to be much more realistic(similar to what most airsoft junkies want).  The .43mm shoots from a casing similar to how live ammunition shoots, which inturn ejects shell casings and gives you much more realistic magazine counts(around 20-30).  Only down side to this is, you look like a clown trying to paintball with it, as everyone else has 200 rounds of ammunition, and finding people who are into simulation is tough, as meets are far and normally quite large, requiring you to drive and possibly stay a night or so to continue your war escapades.  Also, as far as i am aware of, alot of things like this are banned in other countries, like Germany i do believe.  Another aspect of this .43mm is that many of its weapons will give you a blowback simulation which is great for realism in pistols and rifles that you simply cannot get with something like airsoft, or paintball markers.  Honestly this is as real as it gets for someone who wants to simulate, and i would tell anyone to go this route over airsoft.





This last video has nothing to do with anything above, its just for shits and giggles.  This is what happens when you give russians tanks and paintball guns.  The other jaunts have rocket launchers and are shooting them at the tank to simulate it being blown up.



Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Clockworkkiller on September 09, 2013, 03:32:13 am
i have a few super shitty guns and ive taken part in 1 or 2 battles...
i dont really like the airsoft "communitiy" the actual game is alot of fun.

every major airsoft "enthusiasist"(fuck spelling that shit) thinks that Airsoft=real guns/real war, ive meet plenty of airsofters who boast of their extensive knowledge of real firearms, basing all of this on their plastic toy that shoots plastic, most of the people who say these things have never held a real firearm in their life. they get this massive ego thinking their some sort of "pro spec ops SEAL" running around in their surplus BDU's
i mean, if you want that much realism, go join the military, thats as real as it gets.

IMO ditch the airsoft, go try the real thing, unless of course your in EU or outside the US, in which case, airsoft seems to be your only choice, sadly
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Rumblood on September 09, 2013, 04:40:41 am
Those are girly airsoft players. We played with shirt, jeans and goggles, thats it. Those guys can't even feel the pellet through all those heavy coats and triple layers they are wearing. Plus, they have the same problem as 5 year olds with old fashioned fake gun play. "I shot you!" "No you didn't!"
When you have only a shirt on, that pretty red dot shows up nicely on the skin and you can see who got shot and where. Plus, they know they got shot and you can see them flinch when they do.
You can bet that they would be a lot less casual about standing where they can be hit when it hurts to do it.
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Jarold on September 09, 2013, 05:25:27 am
My friends and I got over a Airsoft a while ago. But it was fun while it lasted we only used spring sniper rifles and shotguns. Oh we did use gas hand guns too. Hehe I remember how frantic it would get when we were like 10 feet away from eachother not wanting to get a huge tramp stamp on our bodies.

It's just fun to shoot at people with guns "safely" and act like you're in a real life situation. It's also cool just to own the gun and just reload it constantly and shoot it whenever you want safely. I liked the occasional shoot out but we usually played game modes like protect the president and shit like that.

My favorite way to play was as a sniper in a battle with more than ten people. It kinda stinks though when people lie about getting hit and keep going.
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: LEKIS on September 09, 2013, 07:20:56 am
I come from a family of hunters so I have held quite powerful guns (enough to take down grizzlies and whatnot). This is not for simulatin the "real deal" but to simulate a first person shooter and to have fun with friends. There's battle in october with 112 "human players, called stalkers" and maybe 50 zombies.

But to the question, can i just put in a teenie weenie more powerful spring without compromissing  the health of the gun?
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Tot. on September 09, 2013, 09:06:03 am
Quote from: Torost on September 08, 2013, 11:36:26 pm
I have never understood the fascination with airsoft and other replica guns.
Not trying to put anyone down, just wondering what the hell are they usefull for.
Are they just for fun? Can get kids into alot of trouble....

Someone below wrote a more extensive reply but just wanted to drop my two cents and mention that asg can be used for a large variety of, well, field games, from casual running around abandonded buildings with your friends on sundays and shooting each other for fun to milsims that last several days and are meant to be training exercises for actual military personnel. You probably can find events that mix those two ends of the spectrum in any proportions.

Quote from: Rumblood on September 09, 2013, 04:40:41 am
Those are girly airsoft players. We played with shirt, jeans and goggles, thats it. Those guys can't even feel the pellet through all those heavy coats and triple layers they are wearing. Plus, they have the same problem as 5 year olds with old fashioned fake gun play. "I shot you!" "No you didn't!"

We're doing a lot of MOUT lately and I'd say I certainly wouldn't want to do it without the helmet and face protection gear, especially if you allow using grenades (and I can't imagine any sort of CQB without them). Shirts and jeans might be fine though if you're just using stock replicas I guess but once you start getting skin penetration and losing teeth it's not that fun. :wink:
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Christo on September 09, 2013, 09:11:45 am
Just a small question.

Can't they just make a type of BB that.. I don't know gives some kind of a marking?

Like in paintball or something, so before the game everyone grabs a color, then try lying yourself out of that..
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Tot. on September 09, 2013, 09:27:59 am
There are 6mm paint BBs, though they're not widely used because (afaik) they tend to splash inside your replica and are quite expensive.
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Christo on September 09, 2013, 09:28:20 am
Ah, I see.


This made me lol
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Sir_Hans on September 09, 2013, 12:00:20 pm
Sell your airsoft and buy a paintball gun...
Paintball is way better, it puts hair on your neckbeard... Airsoft is for girls.  :mrgreen:

Airsoft guns are nice to look at, but paintball guns are much funner to play with. Not to mention paintballs are biodegradable (almost all of them anyways.) and the CO2 or compressed air tanks are re-usable... unlike airsoft guns which generally use disposable co2 cartridges.

Also if you have high enough feet per second on your paintball gun, you can get rubber balls in the same caliber as paintballs and use it for home defense. A definite plus.

There's a reason why law enforcement generally choose to train with paintball guns over airsoft. It's a much more engaging experience, it might be hard to comprehend, but when you are hiding behind cover like a tree and paintballs are smacking into the tree ripping chunks of bark off it will get your adrenaline going much more than if someone was shooting piddly airsoft bb's.

Ohyeah, and if you play paintball... Play woodsball or military sim... speedball is lame and arenas generally make u turn your guns down to ridiculously low feet per second (because they are always concerned about liability).  :mrgreen:





Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Tot. on September 09, 2013, 01:52:46 pm
Paintball is indeed fun and if my main goal was to have fun I'd probably stick to it, though it's generally much more expensive and the logistics are pain in the ass.

Quote
unlike airsoft guns which generally use disposable co2 cartridges

Since when airsoft guns generally use any sort of gas at all, you mean those 2% of replicas in use that are gas-powered? BTW. I have yet to encounter asg assault rifle powered with co2 (other than RAM), they all are greengas powered. So when you want to bash asg, do some research first.  :wink:

Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: AntiBlitz on September 09, 2013, 02:05:13 pm
Quote from: Sir_Hans on September 09, 2013, 12:00:20 pm
Paintball is way better, it puts hair on your neckbeard... Airsoft is for girls.  :mrgreen:

There's a reason why law enforcement generally choose to train with paintball guns over airsoft. It's a much more engaging experience, it might be hard to comprehend, but when you are hiding behind cover like a tree and paintballs are smacking into the tree ripping chunks of bark off it will get your adrenaline going much more than if someone was shooting piddly airsoft bb's.

Ohyeah, and if you play paintball... Play woodsball or military sim... speedball is lame and arenas generally make u turn your guns down to ridiculously low feet per second (because they are always concerned about liability).  :mrgreen:

we dont use paintballs, well maybe some other departments do, but we used training pistols(glock 22's with a firing pin and Simunition rounds, or powder rounds), this gives the same effect as firing the live ammunition, because it is essentially live ammunition.  The tip fires out a plastic cap filled with colored powder from a shell casing that is exactly the same as live ammunition with gunpowder.  And it downright absolutely stings like a bitch, however force on force training is not used too often due to its expense and liability.  These firing pins and simunution rounds can also be purchased for a variety of other weapons like rifles which then take your simulation to the next level.  It truly doesnt get any more real than this, as this is a live gun with live ammunition, that goes bang loudly and has recoil.

(click to show/hide)


When i turned 16 i had bought this below, it was my third paintball gun and i wanted to start getting into simulation paintballing, however i noticed that the guns could never really take you to that point, because unfortunately, paintball guns just have a hard time looking the part.  Even this still had the silly hopper sticking out the top, the abnormally large barrel, the tank sticking out the back, and you couldnt use the sights with a mask on, as it was too bulky to get your cheek down.

(click to show/hide)
Not particularly mine, but close enough to it, without the scope.
(click to show/hide)

btw its an Ariakon Sim-15, which back then this was one of the few companies making these sort of pbguns.


Quote from: Tot. on September 09, 2013, 01:52:46 pm
Paintball is indeed fun and if my main goal was to have fun I'd probably stick to it, though it's generally much more expensive and the logistics are pain in the ass.

Since when airsoft guns generally use any sort of gas at all, you mean those 2% of replicas in use that are gas-powered? BTW. I have yet to encounter asg assault rifle powered with co2 (other than RAM), they all are greengas powered. So when you want to bash asg, do some research first.  :wink:

He is talking about the pistols mostly, they use these small cartridges, and some smaller rifles use these as welll, though they give you a very minimal amount of shots, like around 50 and your done.  Then your spending your time attempting to grab a freezing cold metal object while putting in a new one.
(click to show/hide)


Bonus video for why even the strongest neckbeard should be wearing head to toe cover, this is gas operated at its finest.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: Rumblood on September 09, 2013, 07:20:13 pm
It all depends upon the fps. At 300 fps, it won't do that even at point blank. Besides, you showed a woman getting shot. Everyone knows manly man skin is 10x the armor class!
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help?
Post by: zagibu on September 09, 2013, 08:41:43 pm
We also use Simunition in the military, so I guess it's pretty much the best marker munition you can get.
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 09, 2013, 10:08:37 pm
Would be better just playing paintball (IMO).  Airsoft seems dumb as hell.

If you want military simulation, you can look into MILES gear (the US military used to, or might still use this).  I've seen other simulated warfare where they use real firearms, but have some sort of chalk projectiles (can still be very dangerous, so important to protect your vital areas of the body).  But both of these instances, there's ways to verify if someone was hit or not, none of the recollections from childhood cowboys and indians "I shot you"..."no I shot you first"
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: Clockworkkiller on September 09, 2013, 11:14:38 pm
You want realism? Go play Arma 1, so realistic the Canadian military trains with it
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: Sir_Hans on September 10, 2013, 07:52:07 am
Quote from: AntiBlitz on September 09, 2013, 02:05:13 pm
we dont use paintballs, well maybe some other departments do, but we used training pistols(glock 22's with a firing pin and Simunition rounds, or powder rounds), this gives the same effect as firing the live ammunition, because it is essentially live ammunition.  The tip fires out a plastic cap filled with colored powder from a shell casing that is exactly the same as live ammunition with gunpowder.  And it downright absolutely stings like a bitch, however force on force training is not used too often due to its expense and liability.  These firing pins and simunution rounds can also be purchased for a variety of other weapons like rifles which then take your simulation to the next level.  It truly doesnt get any more real than this, as this is a live gun with live ammunition, that goes bang loudly and has recoil.

I stand corrected, That is obviously much more realistic, and the pain involved with getting hit with one of those probably gives new meaning to the "I don't want to get hit" line of thought.
I actually saw some of that ammo you posted a pic of, a paintball buddy showed me that same exact looking ammo. The plastic slug shell casing on those is no joke, it looked quite painful just judging by the thickness of that slug shell. I would not want to get hit by one of those. :shock:

I know some law enforcement in California here, practice with those (because my friend found some of the rounds while he was land surveying on a job). But I think a lot of the local departments don't have funding for that kind of expenditure.
All the cops I've played with (in paintball) do it on their own time, presumably with their own money.
I think there are some elements where paintball can provide good teamwork and tactical training, but also other instances where it fails when comparing it to real guns or real firearm combat.
One flaw with paintball, is once you get comfortable with it, getting shot isn't that bad and you tend to take more "rambo" type risks just for fun.

I wonder how fast those powder slugs are traveling when shot from one of those handguns or a rifle? And what do the officers wear for face/head protection?



Quote from: Clockworkkiller on September 09, 2013, 11:14:38 pm
You want realism? Go play Arma 1, so realistic the Canadian military trains with it

That might be great for large scale tactics and vehicle simulation, but a computer game/sim will never get your adrenaline pumping as much as getting shot at by a paintball gun, or those gunpowder/powder charges antiblitz mentioned.
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: AntiBlitz on September 10, 2013, 01:32:57 pm
Quote from: Sir_Hans on September 10, 2013, 07:52:07 am

I wonder how fast those powder slugs are traveling when shot from one of those handguns or a rifle? And what do the officers wear for face/head protection?



That might be great for large scale tactics and vehicle simulation, but a computer game/sim will never get your adrenaline pumping as much as getting shot at by a paintball gun, or those gunpowder/powder charges antiblitz mentioned.

lol no problem im not meaning to call you out, just inform you. 

Just a standard paintball mask, nothing special, though i would wear a long sleeve and a vest to play.  These really do sting badly, and will make you bleed at times.

Im not too sure how fast they travel, the majority of the training is meant for CQB which is what our environment mostly is, so we dont have to worry about a drop off too much with something similar to paintballs where you are shooting roping arcs
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on September 10, 2013, 03:49:41 pm
Still have a Tippmann A-5 somewhere in the basement :) Bought it about 10 years ago, when it was still legal without a weapon permission/registration... Now i need to have some sort of a document issued by police it seems.
 
It is a shame i never had friends who liked this kind of stuff! Only used my marker two times, but i loved cleaning it for some reason :) Could assemble/disassemble it like a pro! ( not that a-5 has many parts though... )
 
I have never "played" with airsoft/bb guns the same way you play paintball, but I definitely prefer to be able to see if i hit someone :) The downside of paintball, in my opinion, is high ball price and low projectile speed... I believe it was 90 m/s max ( you can adjust it higher, but it can be dangerous ). A remember paying around 50 Euro for a bag of 500 balls, that is ridiculous!
 
Btw, can you refill a gas-bottle for airsoft guns at home?.. Or do you buy a new one, and trow the old one out?
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: Tot. on September 10, 2013, 04:23:45 pm
Quote from: Armpit_Sweat on September 10, 2013, 03:49:41 pm
Btw, can you refill a gas-bottle for airsoft guns at home?.. Or do you buy a new one, and trow the old one out?

Most airsoft guns used as main weapon are AEGs, meaning they are powered with a big rechargable battery, not gas. Those few that use gas (mainly sidearms and some sniper rifles although there are also some assault rifles) use greengas, which comes in one-use bottles.
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: Clockworkkiller on September 10, 2013, 09:00:10 pm
Quote from: Armpit_Sweat on September 10, 2013, 03:49:41 pm
Bought it about 10 years ago, when it was still legal without a weapon permission/registration... Now i need to have some sort of a document issued by police it seems.

Damn, that sucks, the hell do they think people are gonna do with a fucking paintball gun?
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: AntiBlitz on September 11, 2013, 01:38:42 am
Quote from: Clockworkkiller on September 10, 2013, 09:00:10 pm
Damn, that sucks, the hell do they think people are gonna do with a fucking paintball gun?

they teach violence, similar to vidya games, which in turn makes juveniles want to cause property damage and possibly harm others with real firearms, or atleast that is the mentality of the governments in Europe who oppose them.  I could have sworn certain countries had outright banned them, or atleast tried to, i know for sure Germany tried banning them outright, though idk if it actually went through or not.  In australia, these are considered firearms and owning them is out right illegal. 
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: Clockworkkiller on September 11, 2013, 03:08:10 am
Quote from: AntiBlitz on September 11, 2013, 01:38:42 am
they teach violence, similar to vidya games, which in turn makes juveniles want to cause property damage and possibly harm others with real firearms, or atleast that is the mentality of the governments in Europe who oppose them.

kids have been pointing their fingers in the shapes of guns and playing war since the beginning of time, video games and toy guns are no different
when are politicans going to understand that unstable and violent behaviors are the cause of the cutlure, childhood and pyschological probelms?


Quote from: AntiBlitz on September 11, 2013, 01:38:42 am
In australia, these are considered firearms and owning them is out right illegal.

i often times mock the UK's laws regarding knives/guns/self-defense/tools, but Australia is a downright dictatorship
atleast UK is able to realize that a swiss army knife is not a fucking weapon, nor are they going around banning every other videogame released

anyway, /offtopicpoliticalrant
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: Christo on September 11, 2013, 12:25:58 pm

Quote from: Clockworkkiller on September 11, 2013, 03:08:10 am
when are politicans going to understand that unstable and violent behaviors are the cause of the cutlure, childhood and pyschological probelms?

It's easier to point at guns, you don't have to think up a true solution for the people
Title: Re: Airsoft? Muricans'? Help? NEWTOPIC* Airsoft vs paintball Vs fat american mothers
Post by: zagibu on September 11, 2013, 06:39:28 pm
It's a standard action in the global feminisation plan.