cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: AntiBlitz on August 21, 2013, 07:33:44 am

Title: 1h pricing
Post by: AntiBlitz on August 21, 2013, 07:33:44 am
So why is is that we have weapons that are so similar in stats yet, they cost a difference of 6k gold.  Why do the Paramerion, Spathion, Nordic Champion's sword, and Knightly arming sword cost between 9,000-10,700 gold??? yet the Arabian Guard sword , Arabian Cav sword, Arabian arming sword, and Long arming sword have nearly identical stats and are 2,000-6,000gold lower then the above listed swords? 

I understand having a sword that costs more be better then a cheaper sword, however they are damn near identical in stats with slight variations that i dont see warranting a 6k gold difference in price.  How is the Arabian Cavalry sword, which is the longest hardest hitting 1h sword so much cheaper than the Paramerion.  Dont forget these weapons are normally paired with a shield boosting the cost of such a build even higher, putting it on pair with 2h great swords and poleaxes.

Knightly Arming Sword
weapon length: 102
weight: 1.7
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 102
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 31 cut
slots: 1
cost:8,944

Nordic Champion's Sword
weapon length: 102
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 102
thrust damage: 21 pierce
swing damage: 32 cut
slots: 1
cost:9,285

Spathion
weapon length: 102
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 102
thrust damage: 26 pierce
swing damage: 31 cut
slots: 1
cost:10,290

Paramerion
weapon length: 103
weight: 1.6
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 103
thrust damage: 23 pierce
swing damage: 32 cut
slots: 1
10,678

Arabian Arming Sword
weapon length: 100
weight: 1.8
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 100
thrust damage: 19 pierce
swing damage: 30 cut
slots: 1
cost:4,537

Arabian Guard Sword
weapon length: 100
weight: 1.9
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 100
thrust damage: 20 pierce
swing damage: 32 cut
slots: 1
cost:6,261

Long Arming Sword
weapon length: 102
weight: 1.7
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 102
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 30 cut
slots: 1
cost:6,708

Arabian Cavalry Sword
weapon length: 105
weight: 2.3
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 95
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 19 pierce
swing damage: 33 cut
slots: 1
cost:6,900

Are we simplying paying for the "cool factor" of a red and gold handle, with a dark blade?
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on August 21, 2013, 08:09:36 am
Spathion has a good thrust without losing swing damage, speed, or length. Compare it to the long espada eslavona.

Paramerion is an arabian cavalry sword with improved (no longer useless) thrust.

It's like plate armor. Once you get to the top, you are paying for a minor advantage. You rise above jack of all trades: You can do everything well, and one thing very well. Cheaper swords do one thing well and are okay or bad outside of their specific niche. You sacrifice gold instead of versatility.
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: Simon_Templar on August 21, 2013, 03:01:57 pm
what about make plate armour realistic that you idiot can forget to pierce thru. How about that.
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: Simon_Templar on August 21, 2013, 03:18:10 pm
The hole Problem for me is it woud need a much more complexity System for all weapons. becouse with some weapons you simple can not get through armour. Stabs woud go throw mail. but not through plate. So it is not really balanced at the moment. Steel piks woud stuck in the plate armour sometimes. And when you were not be able to put it out again you were disarmd. same counts for ahlpike when you bounce of the plate armour and fail you simply get killed by a profesional soldier. so acally the game is not balanced at all. It shoud be like you bounce of with the ahlpike and get your self exposed. becouse you made a step to close to the enemy. and then you are in his killing zone. what counts now with this weapons is. who makes the most damage. what is pretty match idiotic. And also let the skillfull players stop playing the mod.
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 21, 2013, 06:09:18 pm
Well I choose the Knightly Arming Sword over very similar swords (LAS or Nordic Champion Sword) due to the 24 pierce damage and 31 cut (both better than these other two swords in their respective damage type).

This is what I get when I search for 1h sword that are at least 97 speed, at least 100 length, and at least 30 cut damage:

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As you can see they seem to match up with their prices fairly logically.  The AAS has only 19 pierce, only 30 cut.  The AGS has 32 cut, but only 20 pierce.  LAS has only 30 cut (1 less cut than KAS and worth 2,200 less gold...you may think that's a big difference, but I think it's worth the price and have since I bought the KAS 2 years ago).  Elite Scimi is very nice, but I like the KAS better (for length and having stab, and only 800 gold difference).  NCS is nice for 32 cut, but you only get 21 pierce, I'd rather have 3 more pierce and give up 1 cut.

I don't see the problem.  You have to compare apples to apples.  Pick a weapon you think is priced incorrectly, and I'm pretty confident I can find similar weapons that are better (and more expensive) or worse in some ways and cheaper.  I think the prices are logical.
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: Gurnisson on August 21, 2013, 06:24:12 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on August 21, 2013, 06:09:18 pm
(click to show/hide)

Compare Elite Scimitar to AGS. You pay ~2000 gold to get +1 speed, -2 difficulty and a curved model, while losing 1 cut and an attacking direction. Not really worth it, at least not after this patch  :P
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 21, 2013, 06:28:20 pm
Yeah after the patch the AGS looks like a better weapon than the Elite Scimi, but 1 speed is no joke (IMO at least), but I'd rather use the AGS for having 1 more cut damage.  I have an elite scimi (that I haven't used very much since I started playing), knowing what I know now, I'd have bought the AGS over the elite scimi.  So the prices of these two seem kind of like a disparity, but again, I think WITCHCRAFT nails it on the head, you pay more for very small perks.  If you don't think it's worth the price, don't pay for it.  But I don't think they are priced "wrong" necessarily. 
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: Haboe on August 21, 2013, 08:03:55 pm
If you think the cheapers ones are not really worse then the expensive ones, this should be your lucky day because they are cheap.

That 1-2 extra damage and speed does matter to most of us. We spend loompoints worth 400k+ just to improve the things by 1 damage, so these items with 1-2 less damage swords being so cheap isn't that odd.
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: Matey on August 21, 2013, 08:08:37 pm
make my LEE cheaper too D:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: Phew on August 21, 2013, 08:27:51 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on August 21, 2013, 06:28:20 pm
Yeah after the patch the AGS looks like a better weapon than the Elite Scimi, but 1 speed is no joke (IMO at least), but I'd rather use the AGS for having 1 more cut damage.  I have an elite scimi (that I haven't used very much since I started playing), knowing what I know now, I'd have bought the AGS over the elite scimi.  So the prices of these two seem kind of like a disparity, but again, I think WITCHCRAFT nails it on the head, you pay more for very small perks.  If you don't think it's worth the price, don't pay for it.  But I don't think they are priced "wrong" necessarily.

In other words, buy the +1 AGS I have on market ;-) I love my +3 AGS; it's the only way to get 99 speed, 100 reach, and 35 cut in a 1h, and it has a stab attack to boot (albeit a weak one, but it still usually lands).

The more expensive 1h swords buy you those last 2-3 cm of reach, or a better stab attack. Diminishing returns.
Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: AntiBlitz on August 21, 2013, 10:33:27 pm
Just trying to show that though i understand getting but 1 more point in any bit of the sword is an improvement worth paying for, weapons that are near similar are so far off in price differences that i dont see why they wouldnt be right next to each other in price, take for instance these two swords here:

Liuyedao
weapon length: 88
weight: 1.2
difficulty: 8
speed rating: 102
weapon length: 88
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 31 cut
slots: 1
cost:3,973

Niuweidao
weapon length: 88
weight: 1.5
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 101
weapon length: 88
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 32 cut
slots: 1
cost:6,058

They are essentially swinging 1 point in difference, but the price is astronomically higher.  Is the 1 extra cut worth more, not so much in terms of its price, but in the value of how it was priced when it was being balanced within the market?  How are these weapons being determined to be cheaper or "weaker" then another?



Title: Re: 1h pricing
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 21, 2013, 10:58:44 pm
Well true, I think those two examples should be closer in price (losing 1 speed, gaining 1 cut, versus losing 1 cut gaining 1 speed).  I supposed the .3 higher weight is a bonus too though. 

I honestly still think it's fine...and gives people more decisions to weigh when choosing what weapon to use.