cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Necrorave on July 24, 2013, 03:45:15 pm

Title: Just an idea..
Post by: Necrorave on July 24, 2013, 03:45:15 pm
I was thinking about the "Issue" of strat that we have.  The inevitable end game where everyone is a Tin can.

I was thinking of ways to fix that and I do not think a change to gold would fix it entirely.  It would just make it take longer to happen.

Perhaps this could help;
A system that makes higher end items decay overtime.  I mean, the timer would have to be quite large although small enough to make armies restock or perhaps "Polish" their gear.
This would stop stockpiling of expensive items and make people buy/create them at appropriate times and make them a bit more "Rare".  This could go for all item types, although I feel this would only be necessary for armors.  Once an items reaches the end of the timer, it goes down by one loom.
(Perhaps make the timer a month or so?)

Second idea;
Create a "Polish" system where you can reset the timer attached to items for a % fee of the original cost of the item.  This will not revert a item that lost a loom already, merely restart the timer that would take one away.  This would force players to look over their gear and manage gold a bit more rather than stockpiling it all and buying more items with it.  If they decide to stockpile items they will have to maintain them even when they are not in use.  I feel this kind of system would help shoo away the end game result a bit better.  Although, like most of the ideas presented; this is a prediction on my part.

This is merely an idea, so please feel free to discuss.

EDIT: Making the post look prettier
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Vovka on July 24, 2013, 03:48:01 pm
Oh! another button to push!
 FU i wish a permadeath to ur character  :P


best solution - just ban a last 10 man on eu side of strat who still care about strat and dont let their faction die
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Necrorave on July 24, 2013, 03:49:33 pm
Quote from: Vovka on July 24, 2013, 03:48:01 pm
Oh! another button to push!
 FU i wish a permadeath to ur character  :P

The amount of tears flowing from my eyes will level villages.
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Strudog on July 24, 2013, 03:51:58 pm
It would be easier just to minimise amount of gold made by trading.

But i like the idea that this 'polish' thibg you have going on will be like upkeep in strat which would be nice
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Vovka on July 24, 2013, 03:52:03 pm
Quote from: Necrorave on July 24, 2013, 03:49:33 pm
The amount of tears flowing from my eyes will level villages.
do u have village?
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Necrorave on July 24, 2013, 03:53:20 pm
Quote from: Vovka on July 24, 2013, 03:52:03 pm
do u have village?

I used to, but its leveled now.  The floods are heading towards EU as we speak.
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Vovka on July 25, 2013, 11:17:50 am
  We already have enough trouble with modifiers armor after the fight, which is why you are forced to clean up more than 100 items with different modifiers. It would be nice to combine your stupid idea and a stupid strat system to another over a stupid system - and prohibit the use of weapons looted from the battlefield until to be fixed for the % of its value. Until then, it will be stored in crates.
  If you allow repair only from character's inventory, and prevent while fief under siedge - its eliminate this stupid cases where the besiegers are sponsoring fiefs with their own weapons after of imminent defeat against the garrison at 3+k troops because of another stupid system
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Necrorave on July 25, 2013, 01:22:46 pm
Quote from: Vovka on July 25, 2013, 11:17:50 am
  We already have enough trouble with modifiers armor after the fight, which is why you are forced to clean up more than 100 items with different modifiers. It would be nice to combine your stupid idea and a stupid strat system to another over a stupid system - and prohibit the use of weapons looted from the battlefield until to be fixed for the % of its value. Until then, it will be stored in crates.
  If you allow repair only from character's inventory, and prevent while fief under siedge - its eliminate this stupid cases where the besiegers are sponsoring fiefs with their own weapons after of imminent defeat against the garrison at 3+k troops because of another stupid system

We do have a lot of stupid systems.  Although, the reason I bring this up is to stop stockpiling.  The battle thing was a decent one, but it only effects those that are in a war.  Those factions that are at peace will maintain a large amount of gear and keep growing though.  This is merely another dumb system to stop massive stockpiling.  Perhaps even limit what people buy instead of plate all the time.

As I said.  It is only an idea.  It is meant to be tinkered with.
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Butan on July 25, 2013, 01:38:32 pm
Change strength requirement of the plated armors from where they are to 24-27-30 : no more problem  :) only a small % of an army could use that, and if everyone respec to a strength build they will suck at anything that requires them to move from one place to another and there wont be so much plated men riding plated chargers.


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Turboflex on July 26, 2013, 07:48:32 pm
The problem is economic balance. there's no cap on fief points and no check against prosperity. Fiefs started at 200 prosperity I think, now most are over 1000-2000 even the cities with 10 heirloomed items at 40% discount. This will only continue to increase as  castles gain 10 per day, cities 14. S&D used to be scarce now it's everywhere especially on EU where there's 50% more fiefs than NA even though activity levels are roughly the same. So every day the amount of gold sloshing around increases, completely open ended while the costs of equipping an army remain constant, so gold has reached trivial levels (on EU )and there's no reason not to equip everything with top level plate (NA is not too far behind).
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Haboe on July 26, 2013, 08:01:16 pm
Quote from: Butan on July 25, 2013, 01:38:32 pm
Change strength requirement of the plated armors from where they are to 24-27-30 : no more problem  :) only a small % of an army could use that, and if everyone respec to a strength build they will suck at anything that requires them to move from one place to another and there wont be so much plated men riding plated chargers.


(click to show/hide)

Hell no.


Then you get 45 plated players with 10+ IF, we don't want that.
We already have about 30+ greys with 10+ IF in tincans making it hard enough atm  :mrgreen: Now at least some of them die in less then 4 hits :P
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Butan on July 26, 2013, 08:28:06 pm
They can already do that Haboe, so why do they stick to their build ?

Because they dont like the pure strength build  :)
Also if they have that much strength + 10 IF (and most probably 10 PS), it means they have no ATH, almost no WM, no hybridization whatsoever is possible (except a few points here and there that would do no good) and they certainly cannot have enough riding to master a war horse or even a steppe horse. Skill points balance is key here.

They would be confined to slow-ass hard-puncher infantry; while an army such as this has its advantages, it also has big disadvantages :

- it cannot move fast (winning by flags is most likely impossible except if the enemy camp on its flags and lose in 1 wave, and capturing/holding a position is hard by itself because reinforcements would come late)
- very easy to harass and gank (I can tell you that  :P)


I'm confident that most people would keep their build and not respec or change their hero, so an army like that would not likely appear, so it would only go in the direction of the "less plates" mindset for strategus (and cRPG in that case, which is two birds in one stone!).


All other ideas I heard from are only of the "lets delay this problem further" type, which (if the strat round is long enough) doesnt do any good. A solution to that "problem" has to be radical.

The only thing up for debate, to me, is wether or not this is a problem, at all. Some argue that it is, others that it isnt; I think it isnt a problem per say, but doesnt encourage variety and fun and should be tweaked so that it is VITAL to have fewer heavy armors.
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Haboe on July 26, 2013, 08:42:47 pm
Flag capping is easier with high str :P

You last longer, you can take more hits, so if you crush a wave, you have a lot of guys left to attack the spawn. And its not like they walk in quicksand, they just go a tad slower :P

But i don't see a reason to force them into high str builds to wear their armor

High armor is op in strat, some exceptions ofc, but a full tincan army wins vs a full medium armor.
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Haboe on July 26, 2013, 08:46:00 pm
Maybe as a fix you can give items a max amount of  equipment pieces produced per day.
Each category gets an amount per day, with a limit on how much you can expand that amount.

Does give the annoying "defending a castle is even more efficient".
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Lt_Anders on July 26, 2013, 08:49:16 pm
Quote from: Haboe on July 26, 2013, 08:42:47 pm
Flag capping is easier with high str :P

You last longer, you can take more hits, so if you crush a wave, you have a lot of guys left to attack the spawn. And its not like they walk in quicksand, they just go a tad slower :P

But i don't see a reason to force them into high str builds to wear their armor

High armor is op in strat, some exceptions ofc, but a full tincan army wins vs a full medium armor.

btw, if they make the armor strength go up, large portions of mercs wouldn't be able to wear it, FYI. Few people make radical 27-9 builds. Most do 24-15 type builds.
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Butan on July 26, 2013, 11:56:54 pm
Quote from: Lt_Anders on July 26, 2013, 08:49:16 pm
btw, if they make the armor strength go up, large portions of mercs wouldn't be able to wear it, FYI. Few people make radical 27-9 builds. Most do 24-15 type builds.

Thats the point but we are discussing if people wouldnt just switch their hero to a pure str one and roll on everyone,

Anyway my proposition is a bit wild since it changes cRPG too and would need a long consideration  :o
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Lt_Anders on July 27, 2013, 05:36:11 am
Quote from: Butan on July 26, 2013, 11:56:54 pm
Thats the point but we are discussing if people wouldnt just switch their hero to a pure str one and roll on everyone,

Anyway my proposition is a bit wild since it changes cRPG too and would need a long consideration  :o

Actually, they can change strat requirements without changing crpg.
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Bryggan on July 29, 2013, 04:54:07 am
Quote from: Turboflex on July 26, 2013, 07:48:32 pm
The problem is economic balance. there's no cap on fief points and no check against prosperity. Fiefs started at 200 prosperity I think, now most are over 1000-2000 even the cities with 10 heirloomed items at 40% discount. This will only continue to increase as  castles gain 10 per day, cities 14. S&D used to be scarce now it's everywhere especially on EU where there's 50% more fiefs than NA even though activity levels are roughly the same. So every day the amount of gold sloshing around increases, completely open ended while the costs of equipping an army remain constant, so gold has reached trivial levels (on EU )and there's no reason not to equip everything with top level plate (NA is not too far behind).

So the problem is too much money?  I'm new to strat, so I'm not sure what's what, but I'm guessing that when villages are attacked, they don't lose prosperity.  Cuz if they did, people wouldn't wait for armies to attack them in the fief, but would go out to meet them. Or am I wrong?

I would suggest that fiefs lose prosperity when attacked according to how long the attack lasts.  I'd also suggest that troops costs should get exponentially higher when out in the field, a percentage of men times the value of gear.  Then you'd have to choose between quantity and quality.  The only places troops should be cheaply garrisoned is in castles and towns, where a clan member could quickly grab some troops to make a large army to meet an oncoming large army.  If you are an independent village owner, you could pay for either protection or pay to station troops in a nearby castle or town.

This would stop the constant village sieges, and would make defenders send armies out to intercept attacking ones, and would only do the village siege thing as a last defence, which also has the added benefit of a scorched earth policy should you lose.  And as war continues, large areas of the map will become poverty stricken, making the trade routes more and more competitive as caravans fight over the little S/D in the peaceful villages, perhaps making hawk factions force trade agreements on the dove factions with gunboat diplomacy- which will either make the doves more hawkish, or make other hawks charge in and turn the dove's lands into another battleground.

I think this would lead to more interesting strategies, and get rid of those 1500 man caravans carrying 2000 crates.  This would also give new players and lower rank members more stuff to do- ie more small caravans (and probably caravan 'privateers'), scouting enemy areas, patrolling friendly areas, harassing enemy villages, and getting ready to rush to your comrade's aid when a battle starts nearby.

So I may be all off on this, being new to strat, but I'd like to see this made more interesting for everyone, not just the clan leaders.  Also I think that would increase a demand for the small time mercenary, which is my greatest aspiration in life.
Title: Re: Just an idea..
Post by: Butan on July 29, 2013, 05:34:23 am
Quote from: Bryggan on July 29, 2013, 04:54:07 am
fiefs lose prosperity when attacked
troops costs should get exponentially higher by percentage of men times the value of gear


2 good ideas  :)


Also to add more "manoeuvrability" to a faction, there should be a strategus faction rank that enables you to withdraw items/troops from any fiefs your faction own : atm, lords have to sit in one place to ensure its defenses and its very annoying for them, and for the faction when they need them badly and they arent even here. A lot of open field battles are lost there since noone can draw armies out to fight.