cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Daunt_Flockula on July 16, 2013, 05:05:55 pm

Title: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on July 16, 2013, 05:05:55 pm
Jackhammer users won't like me mentioning this, but I will anyway.

Is it really logical that those drumsticks can knock an adversary down so easily? I understand the way mauls as well other 2H and polearm blunts do it, but I just can't acknowledge the knockdown capacity of, say, a jackhammer or a little pickaxe. Well, actually I believe it is total bullshit. It would only be possible for those cotton swabs to knock people down only if they were wielded by a bridge troll or something.

(click to show/hide)

So, what do you guys think about it?
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Fips on July 16, 2013, 05:10:33 pm
Nerf blunt and pierce-weapons, buff cut 1handers :0
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Miwiw on July 16, 2013, 05:16:02 pm
Ye, its usually damn annoying.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: brockssn on July 16, 2013, 05:43:19 pm
Jackhammer users won't like me mentioning this, but I will anyway.

Is it really logical that those drumsticks can knock an adversary down so easily? I understand the way mauls as well other 2H and polearm blunts do it, but I just can't acknowledge the knockdown capacity of, say, a jackhammer or a little pickaxe. Well, actually I believe it is total bullshit. It would only be possible for those cotton swabs to knock people down only if they were wielded by a bridge troll or something.

(click to show/hide)

So, what do you guys think about it?


Experiment 1: hand your best friend a metal baseball bat and let him hold it in one hand and hit you over the head as hard as he can. If it does not kill you, I assure you it will cause you to fall on the ground.

/experiment /thread

1h'rs have a big disadvantage in c-rpg (I had to hit some people 8 times before killing them already where they can hit me once and i'm dead). Things like this help balance it
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on July 16, 2013, 05:45:45 pm
Experiment 1: hand your best friend a metal baseball bat and let him hold it in one hand and hit you over the head as hard as he can. If it does not kill you, I assure you it will cause you to fall on the ground.

/experiment /thread

1h'rs have a big disadvantage in c-rpg (I had to hit some people 8 times before killing them already where they can hit me once and i'm dead). Things like this help balance it

Please test this immediately and post results. With pics.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Erzengel on July 16, 2013, 05:45:53 pm
The knockdown chance of one handed blunt weapons with more than 2 weight (unloomed) is indeed a little bit too high (still not as overpowered as Bar Mace :rolleyes:). But you always have to remember that their short length is a major drawback. Most of the time they are only really effective with either agi builds (low damage) or light armor (low survivability). They usually don't work well with strength builds and medium - heavy armor (at least on EU). I am using 15/27 and I often need 5+ hits to kill enemies in heavy armor with a weapon that was exactly designed for that job...

I am not against a small nerf for some (!) blunt weapons, though. But only if you buff most one handed cut weapons at the same time (a small buff might not be enough for most of them)!

Nerf blunt and pierce-weapons, buff cut 1handers :0

One handed pierce weapons were already nerfed enough.  :P The only pierce weapon that is still used by some people is the Steel Pick. I almost never see a Military Pick or even a Military Sickle.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: brockssn on July 16, 2013, 05:58:52 pm
Please test this immediately and post results. With pics.

experiment complete, only took 2 hits for knockdown:
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Phew on July 16, 2013, 06:13:26 pm
1h swords have always been a poor option against anyone with loomed medium armor or higher, and now 1h pierce weapons have been nerfed into oblivion, so blunt is used by default. The fact that the Spathovaklion is now 99 speed (overpowered, IMHO) has made almost every other 1h obsolete.

My suggestions?
-Change the soak/reduce formulas so blunt weapons 100% ignore armor, but have a much lower base damage (~10-14). This way blunt weapons would be a really poor choice against lightly-armored opponents. Right now, blunt outdamages cut weapons against anyone above naked.
-Make knockdown less random. i.e. held attacks to the head should have a high knockdown chance, but a near-glance on the torso shouldn't knockdown. The problem now is that even "crappy" swings can still knockdown.
-Improve the 1h thrust animation/sweetspot so 1h swords are more attractive, and possibly buff the stats of 1h swords slightly
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on July 16, 2013, 06:32:18 pm

Experiment 1: hand your best friend a metal baseball bat and let him hold it in one hand and hit you over the head as hard as he can. If it does not kill you, I assure you it will cause you to fall on the ground.

/experiment /thread

1h'rs have a big disadvantage in c-rpg (I had to hit some people 8 times before killing them already where they can hit me once and i'm dead). Things like this help balance it

1- Metal
2- Baseball bat (2H and not really a jackhammer)
3- No armor involved

I love how you believe you proved me wrong. But did you really?

And I did not mention anything about damage. Yes, they take several hits to bring down an enemy. I have no problems about that, but that cannot be compensated with illogical and irrelevant knockdown capacity.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: dreadnok on July 16, 2013, 08:31:18 pm
Right I'll smack you with a hammer and let's see if you drop
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on July 16, 2013, 09:34:37 pm
I'll allow you to do it with me donning medium armor, not even heavy.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on July 16, 2013, 10:27:16 pm
I'll allow you to do it with me donning medium armor, not even heavy.
Just while we are talking about "real life" (What's that?), I doubt a small chain helmet will prevent you from falling down when a beefed up New Jersian slams a ball-peen into your face.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on July 16, 2013, 10:45:09 pm
I didn't even reference to what would happen irl. Overall, however you view it, it still appears downright silly for 1H blunts to have such knockdown chance.

Maybe if they were textured to look a little more intimidating, I wouldn't mind. To me only the warhammer looks like it could knock peeps down, the rest all look like match sticks and drive you mad when they knock you down, often on the very first hit.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on July 17, 2013, 05:27:30 am
Lol Dread and Froto's posts made this thread gold. +1
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Berserkadin on July 17, 2013, 01:18:59 pm
Yeah only 2h masterrace should be able to knockdown!!!!!!!11111oneoeon

(Cause bar mace ain't retarded at all)
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Lars on July 17, 2013, 02:47:49 pm
I'm using a warhammer at the moment (the manliest weapon in crpg) and honestly i wouldn't mind at all if devs would remove knockdown from 1h maces,  but please, if you remove knockdown add some speed or damage to 1h blunt weapons( or both), because blunt damage  is not as good as pierce, and most 1h blunt weapons are also slower than 1h pierce weapons.

I find quite retarded that 1h maces can knockdown people, and imo it's also ridicolous that the  short black mace (2h?) used by many xbowers can knockdown too.
Also "cotton swabs" like spiked club, long hafted knobbed mace, long hafted spiked mace, staffs, Goedendag &co shoulnd't have knockdown imo, but obviously, if knockdown gets removed from those weapons, imo it would be needed to buff their damage and speed a bit.

Imo the only weapons that shuld have knockdown are: Mauls and bar mace (2h), long maul ( pole) and maybe also poleaxe's secondary mode.

P.s Bar mace knockdown chance is a bit too high imo, it should be decreased a bit.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 17, 2013, 05:21:30 pm
I didn't even reference to what would happen irl. Overall, however you view it, it still appears downright silly for 1H blunts to have such knockdown chance.

Maybe if they were textured to look a little more intimidating, I wouldn't mind. To me only the warhammer looks like it could knock peeps down, the rest all look like match sticks and drive you mad when they knock you down, often on the very first hit.

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Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on July 17, 2013, 05:31:59 pm
Internet: The place where you can nonchalantly call somebody "not smart enough" by using some stock image with a squirrel on it without even making a valid point and someone is already there to +1 you (you really showed him brah!).
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Shemaforash on July 17, 2013, 06:56:37 pm
It doesn't though ASGUARDIAN.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Rebelyell on July 17, 2013, 07:04:09 pm
knockdown is broken on all weapons

it should not be random

i suggest to make knockdown able only after hold
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Macropus on July 17, 2013, 07:29:54 pm
(click to show/hide)
1h blunt weapons are just slightly OP, I think it needs like 1 damage nerf and maybe 1 speed nerf, dunno.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Elindor on July 17, 2013, 08:09:12 pm
P.s Bar mace knockdown chance is a bit too high imo, it should be decreased a bit.

^
Perceived percentage of hits from bar mace resulting in knockdowns = 90%
I'm sure that's not the case, but damn it feels that way sometimes  :evil:
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Nightmare798 on July 17, 2013, 10:17:24 pm

Experiment 1: hand your best friend a metal baseball bat and let him hold it in one hand and hit you over the head as hard as he can. If it does not kill you, I assure you it will cause you to fall on the ground.

/experiment /thread

1h'rs have a big disadvantage in c-rpg (I had to hit some people 8 times before killing them already where they can hit me once and i'm dead). Things like this help balance it

and now try to do that to a guy in full plate armor.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Nightmare798 on July 17, 2013, 10:19:56 pm
I'm using a warhammer at the moment (the manliest weapon in crpg)
HAHAHA

No.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Jarold on July 18, 2013, 04:59:43 am
I think it would be nice for them to take away most of the randomness of knockdown and replace it with some sort of system. First you meet a damage threshold, and if you meet that threshold the game rolls some dice to see if you knockdown ( 15% chance ).

This would at least solve the glancing hits that still knock you down.

I also think a hammer hitting you in the head/body with anything but plate would bring you to your knees. Especially a big lead pipe like a bar mace, or a long pole with metal wrapped around it ( like the long hafted mace ).
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Winterly on July 18, 2013, 07:59:55 am
I think it would be nice for them to take away most of the randomness of knockdown and replace it with some sort of system. First you meet a damage threshold, and if you meet that threshold the game rolls some dice to see if you knockdown ( 15% chance ).

This would at least solve the glancing hits that still knock you down.

I also think a hammer hitting you in the head/body with anything but plate would bring you to your knees. Especially a big lead pipe like a bar mace, or a long pole with metal wrapped around it ( like the long hafted mace ).

Some sort of threshold would be nice. I'm more looking forward to (meaning never) some sort of locational damage system. A warhammer swing to the head is sure to cause some concussion damage while to an arm/body should have a significantly lower chance to down somebody.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 18, 2013, 05:17:04 pm
Internet: The place where you can nonchalantly call somebody "not smart enough" by using some stock image with a squirrel on it without even making a valid point and someone is already there to +1 you (you really showed him brah!).

Hey no need to get uppity about it, just found a picture and was looking for someplace to post it.  You were the lucky winner.

I think 1h's with knockdown are balanced around it.  Blunt and pierce do about the same amount of damage to people in the same types of armor.  So blunt weapons with knockdown usually have slower swing speeds, and do less base damage than piercing 1h weapons.   If you remove knockdown, then you'd just need to speed up the blunt weapons and give them more damage.  Or another way to balance it, would be to leave them slower, give them relatively the same length, but make them stronger than the pierce weapons, and remove knockdown.

I'd be okay with that, but I honestly don't have a problem with 1h blunt weapons giving knock down effect.  I'd rather the devs left most things alone with the game, rather than constantly trying to tweak mechanics.
Title: Re: 1H blunt knockdowns
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on July 18, 2013, 05:37:59 pm
Hey no need to get uppity about it, just found a picture and was looking for someplace to post it.  You were the lucky winner.

I think 1h's with knockdown are balanced around it.  Blunt and pierce do about the same amount of damage to people in the same types of armor.  So blunt weapons with knockdown usually have slower swing speeds, and do less base damage than piercing 1h weapons.   If you remove knockdown, then you'd just need to speed up the blunt weapons and give them more damage.  Or another way to balance it, would be to leave them slower, give them relatively the same length, but make them stronger than the pierce weapons, and remove knockdown.

I'd be okay with that, but I honestly don't have a problem with 1h blunt weapons giving knock down effect.  I'd rather the devs left most things alone with the game, rather than constantly trying to tweak mechanics.

They could always be balanced to get more speed, which I truly wouldn't mind. They are small weapons and it would only make sense for them to be swung around faster. But the way they look only like a mechanic's tools but easily knock you down is plain annoying.

And I appreciate you giving me a proper reply instead of randomly squirrelling me once again.