cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: EyeBeat on July 06, 2013, 08:23:31 am

Title: Archerfest
Post by: EyeBeat on July 06, 2013, 08:23:31 am
Going to say about a good 95% of the people on the NA battles server is some sort of ranged.

That is all.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Strudog on July 06, 2013, 08:33:13 am
Take a shield

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: agile on July 06, 2013, 08:33:45 am
Going to say about a good 95% of the people on the NA battles server is some sort of ranged.

That is all.

ok
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Miley on July 06, 2013, 08:55:50 am
Take a shield

(click to show/hide)

Shield helps... especially if it's a Huscarl like EyeBeat's...
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Strudog on July 06, 2013, 09:15:42 am
Shield helps... especially if it's a Huscarl like EyeBeat's...

obviously not if he is complianing
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 06, 2013, 10:15:56 am
nerf archer
but btw wasnt it like that that archers get buffed in one patch and in the following two derped to herp?
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: darmaster on July 06, 2013, 10:24:15 am
Some people even think archers got nerfed and quit  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 06, 2013, 10:54:50 am
Some people even think archers got nerfed and quit  :rolleyes:
thats the dumb version of a blondepewpewingnoobrangedprojectilenoob
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Mammonist on July 06, 2013, 11:30:16 am
stupid archers! we should shoot them!
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Gnjus on July 06, 2013, 11:42:04 am
Going to say about a good 95% of the people on the NA battles server is some sort of ranged.

That is all.

I remember how Yanks kept creeping into similar EU threads during the last 2 or so years and laughing at us when we said the same. Welcome to the club, I'm glad to see that plague finally spread on the new world as well.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: //saxon on July 06, 2013, 12:28:21 pm
I remember how Yanks kept creeping into similar EU threads during the last 2 or so years and laughing at us when we said the same. Welcome to the club, I'm glad to see that plague finally spread on the new world as well.
its just one person from NA that has complained atm. they seem to be able to put up with it.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Miwiw on July 06, 2013, 01:03:39 pm
"95% are some sort of ranged"

Title of the thread "Archerfest". DERP!
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Fips on July 06, 2013, 01:12:41 pm
Buff ranged! Nerf 2h!
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: oreshy on July 06, 2013, 02:53:42 pm
stupid archers! we should shoot them!



 :D
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Aderyn on July 06, 2013, 03:55:33 pm
He said range, it's not 95% archers... Most of the range are xbow and throwers. =)

As a sidenote i think alot of the archers that have started to emerge are the ones that REALLY disliked archery before when you had to shoot people 6 times to kill them. ergo, they feel their mainclass has been unnerfed somewhat so they can return to it.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: ROHYPNOL on July 06, 2013, 04:13:37 pm
This whole ranged business seems to be getting out of hand. I would honestly say more like 75 to 80% are ranged of some sort. I think this is getting a bit carried away. I know some responses are "Grab a

shield". We all know that has no effect on 10 ranged surrounding you from every angle only when you can try and catch them they just run away, some even if you have 7 athletics, "Mainly these bullshit

xbowers". Throwing is a bit OP too, everyone just has to respec to a 15/24 build and kite people.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: dreadnok on July 06, 2013, 04:35:13 pm
I remember how Yanks kept creeping into similar EU threads during the last 2 or so years and laughing at us when we said the same. Welcome to the club, I'm glad to see that plague finally spread on the new world as well.

No need to be rude dude with attitude
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Oberyn on July 06, 2013, 04:53:49 pm
It's Gnjus, he doesn't know any other way to be. On behalf of all of EU, I apologize, but Gnjus is Gnjus. You cannot change him.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Prpavi on July 06, 2013, 05:15:31 pm
BUFF RANGED!!!!1
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Tydeus on July 06, 2013, 05:30:26 pm
Needs wpf rework.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Aleskander on July 06, 2013, 05:33:28 pm
Is it literally 80% ranged now? I haven't been able to play for a few weeks.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Gnjus on July 06, 2013, 05:33:44 pm
No need to be rude

You don't even know the meaning of "rude", little one.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Nehvar on July 06, 2013, 06:11:53 pm
Is it literally 80% ranged now? I haven't been able to play for a few weeks.

Certainly seems that way; most battles devolve into Call Duty: Medieval Warfare.  It's stripping what's left of the fun right out of the game.

I guess it's not all bad though, it has me playing other games that have been collecting dust on my list for years.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Lord_Bernie_of_Voodoo on July 06, 2013, 06:29:08 pm
I wouldn't say the problem is archery, or even the crossbows that give away effortless kills - I'd say the problem are the pure throwers. Every NA1 round i've played on in the last week or so, there has been at least 5 people with throwing lances, the dumbest weapon I can think of. They often 1 shot people in heavy armor, regardless of where they hit.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: dreadnok on July 06, 2013, 07:02:50 pm
You don't even know the meaning of "rude", little one.


Christ now we get an international internet tommy toughtits on our hands, sigmar save us
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Memento_Mori on July 06, 2013, 07:10:36 pm
obviously not if he is complianing

Eyebeats huscarl helps him vs range, his play style does not though. He likes to run solo vs many almost every round.



My 2h hero didn't have much of a problem with ranged last night.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: dreadnok on July 06, 2013, 07:12:37 pm
Eyebeats huscarl helps him vs range, his play style does not though. He likes to run solo vs many almost every round.



My 2h hero didn't have a problem with ranged last night.

But your memento fucking mori
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Vodner on July 06, 2013, 07:20:44 pm
I did pretty well with an 18/21 longsword/heavy armor build yesterday (or was it two days ago now?), with no shield skill. Normally would have preferred a greatsword in battle, but there was a +3 longsword in the armory.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Inglorious on July 06, 2013, 07:28:44 pm
Being a lancer I "used" to have to responsibility of chasing down ranged who run all over the servers at low infantry points of the day. Now, when I log in and mount up, it's more of put on your heaviest armor with your heaviest horse and just try to survive.

I mean a Regular Rouncey used to carry you through a whole map if you were careful. Now, I can't even get a Champion Cataphract to last a whole round. 4 shots from someone without a loomed bow put it in the danger zone of not wanting to engage unless I have to.

When a Champion Plated Charger can got shot down in less than a minute into the round, I think it's time for me to say something.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Kalam on July 06, 2013, 07:31:34 pm
Light armor, no IF. I'm annihilated by ranged half the time.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: betard_lulz on July 06, 2013, 08:14:26 pm
Light armor, no IF. I'm annihilated by ranged half the time.
as you should be
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Gnjus on July 06, 2013, 11:24:25 pm

Christ now we get an international internet tommy toughtits on our hands, sigmar save us


All the Christs & Sigmars of this world couldn't help you with your stupidity and hipocrisy. Look at your posts and tell me who is the bad attitude rude dude, you American Imbecile. One page of that crap was more then enough to make a valid conclusion.




Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Berserkadin on July 07, 2013, 12:30:00 am
Best way to counter range is with range, invest 1-2 points into Power Throw and use Snowflakes/War Darts.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Grumbs on July 07, 2013, 02:57:49 pm
Best way to counter range is with range, invest 1-2 points into Power Throw and use Snowflakes/War Darts.

People that do stuff like this are part of the problem. You are offering a solution to range spam with "play ranged too".
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: XyNox on July 07, 2013, 03:16:47 pm
People that do stuff like this are part of the problem. You are offering a solution to range spam with "play ranged too".

I read your "low risk reward" and "too much 1 v 1 capability" and "ranged spam" stuff all the time when it comes to ranged balance. So what is your "solution" Grumbs ? You refuse from going away from your pure melee build it seems, yet you will only be happy when missile speed has been toned down so much that nobody can hit you anymore and simultaniously you also want the damage to be so low that even if someone hits you, you dont have to worry much about it. Needless to say, both of those are ridiculous.

If there was no need to give a fuck about ranged at all due to overnerfing them, there would be no point in playing ranged. If you dont want to deal with that, as in altering your build to something more battlefield appropriate, I guess the only chance left for you to enjoy the game is playing DTV or ask for a melee only server.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Grumbs on July 07, 2013, 03:31:30 pm
I suggest limiting the amount that choose to play the class, not necessarily by nerfing them but by making the class more player skill orientated. If you made melee harder to play by for eg  making blocking harder I wouldn't say thats a nerf to melee, I would say its a buff to player skill based combat. I would welcome it

The skill floor for ranged is much lower than melee vs melee. Increase the skill floor. Ranged is like you're testing your own FPS skills, rather than player vs player fighting you get in melee. I would make every shot count so you can't spam and miss and still get some randy shots (increasing ammo is counter to this). Making shots land faster means you don't have to judge player's movements as much. Large stagger means you can stop a guy in his tracks and kite, especially with the new low PD bows. You get rooted in place even when jumping. Ranged got buffs in melee over and over, why do you need to stagger and kiting ability we have now?

The cost of playing ranged and the risk vs reward can be used to limit ranged without necessarily over nerfing them. You just make it so good ranged stay good, and the mediocre guys get better or enter into melee combat more often

Here's some bonus stuff that should have been changed already with xbows from a skill perspective:

Holding shot forever with tight accuracy
Running while shooting is too accurate up close. Looks like some FPS game
Point & click, shot lands extremely quickly
Shots going straight through shields and doing damage
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Adamar on July 07, 2013, 04:08:12 pm
So many nerf ranged threads and no Kafein in sight?  :shock:
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Berserkadin on July 07, 2013, 11:03:42 pm
People that do stuff like this are part of the problem. You are offering a solution to range spam with "play ranged too".
No.

What problem? The ones who got a problem with ranged is melee that refuses to adapt in any manner, you claim that you're totally helpless and can't do shit and we must nerf nerf nerf because your way is the only way. And don't fucking tell me Snowflakes with 1 PT hurts if you have better armour then your average archer. I use them only against ranged, but I prefer melee, I just get some basic ranged capabilities to have some way to handle ranged. When the shit hit the fans I'm more then happy to throw my sword out and hack some limbs and splitter skulls.

I'm trying to do something about ganking archers, what are you doing except from crying? You should try hanging out on eu_2 for abit, maybe you'll calm down and get a new perspective of things. But I guess that you actually like to be mad.

Pure melee isn't suited for battle, just accept the fact that being pure melee is STUPID if you mainly play battle(except for hoplites and pikemen). Pure melee is for siege or duels.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on July 12, 2013, 07:56:34 am
You dont even have to spend any points on throwing, take stones. Last time I used them on my 18 Str char it was enough to scare away a HA and to catch up to a runaway archer and disrupted his shots. They dont do real damage but they are just stones. I will go for 5PT and around 100wpf in throwing and pack 1-2 slots with mw stones. Should be enough to get the upper hand in some situations.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: RandomDude on July 12, 2013, 02:28:51 pm
I agree that players should adapt to the situation in some ways. Getting some throwing items is useful but as a hardcore flamberger its not an option for me lol.

One of the main reasons i grinded for gothic plate was because I thought it would protect me from ranged a lot. Over the years, I can safely say it's doesn't work as well as I'd hoped.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Chasey on July 12, 2013, 04:21:26 pm
I suggest limiting the amount that choose to play the class, not necessarily by nerfing them but by making the class more player skill orientated. If you made melee harder to play by for eg  making blocking harder I wouldn't say thats a nerf to melee, I would say its a buff to player skill based combat. I would welcome it

The skill floor for ranged is much lower than melee vs melee. Increase the skill floor. Ranged is like you're testing your own FPS skills, rather than player vs player fighting you get in melee. I would make every shot count so you can't spam and miss and still get some randy shots (increasing ammo is counter to this). Making shots land faster means you don't have to judge player's movements as much. Large stagger means you can stop a guy in his tracks and kite, especially with the new low PD bows. You get rooted in place even when jumping. Ranged got buffs in melee over and over, why do you need to stagger and kiting ability we have now?

The cost of playing ranged and the risk vs reward can be used to limit ranged without necessarily over nerfing them. You just make it so good ranged stay good, and the mediocre guys get better or enter into melee combat more often

Here's some bonus stuff that should have been changed already with xbows from a skill perspective:

Holding shot forever with tight accuracy
Running while shooting is too accurate up close. Looks like some FPS game
Point & click, shot lands extremely quickly
Shots going straight through shields and doing damage

1 thing I thought would help make ranged less attractive and require more skill is to remove the crosshair, playing ranged myself now mainly I think it would be more challenging than the point and click we use now.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Strudog on July 12, 2013, 04:28:44 pm
+1 Chase

Ive suggested this countless times, but i get the same response, that people will but a dot in the middle of their screen and thus nulify it, which is complete BS.

Most people wouldnt do it because for 1 it would ruin your screen and 2 it would be very innacurate portrail of where the CH is
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on July 12, 2013, 07:05:23 pm
Eyebeat is the lone ranger ninja/rambo running around by himself. 

Got no sympathy...

And the "problem" with ranged isn't the archers/xbows/throwers themselves, it's the battle game mode which allows them to hold a mountain, and infantry has 2 options, run up and die, or wait 2 minutes for MOTF to pop up (if they're lucky and their teammates don't keep running up the mountain and dying every 30 seconds, preventing MOTF from spawning). 

This can be solved by having MOTF pop up a minute or two into every round, giving infantry ground to fight over, here's my suggestion:

http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/change-battle-to-%27conquest%27-mode-by-spawning-motf-early-in-rounds/

Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Grumbs on July 13, 2013, 01:08:50 pm
1 thing I thought would help make ranged less attractive and require more skill is to remove the crosshair, playing ranged myself now mainly I think it would be more challenging than the point and click we use now.

Its possible, but the thing people do then is put something in the middle of their screen to aim with. If the aim point didn't follow centre of the screen its possible like games like arma or ro2

I would much rather get killed by people who make genuinely skillful shots tho regardless, even if its a 1 hit kill every time.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: OttomanSniper on July 13, 2013, 02:20:48 pm
skill point for xbow, too many fake archer in the server and they are more strong than real archers
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Fips on July 13, 2013, 02:47:34 pm
1 thing I thought would help make ranged less attractive and require more skill is to remove the crosshair, playing ranged myself now mainly I think it would be more challenging than the point and click we use now.

People would find a way to get a crosshair anyway and that would get them a HUGE advantage over any other ranged, so no, bad idea. Also, putting something on your screen is VERY accurate. I've used it on css on my old fat computer screen and did pretty awesome with it.

Something like wind (With a little icon to show where it's heading to not make it totally random to aim) would be nice, though. Then it's not just simply aiming higher or lower, you would probably be forced to adapt your aim very often as the wind is changing it's direction.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Joker86 on July 13, 2013, 03:15:33 pm
Raising the skill floor can only be part of the solution. The problem is, that never mind how difficult you make shooting, with missile speed, arrow drop, wind, bird poo or anything, the interaction with your target is very low.

In melee you strike your opponend, and he tries to block you, to chamber, to kick/nudge, to dodge or to attack faster. It's like playing tennis.

But shooting is only one-directional. All the skill part happens only on one client side, which is the ranged player. The only skill or interaction which takes place on the target side is moving unpredictably, using as much cover during an advance as possible, or - which is already the peak of interaction with that ranged opponent, since it's "directed" towards him personally - is to either dodge the shots when you see them coming, or to block them with your shield if you happen to wield one.

This leads to only one conclusion: since a raised skill floor for archers only affects the archer side, not the target side (apart from perhaps lowering the general amount of archers and lowering their hit rate by a percentage of which I doubt the infantry players will notice it), the complaints about archery will not stop.

CrazyCracka basically already told the only right solution: changing the game mode. I'd prefer a real conquest mode with a few changes, but having MOTF spawn always at a set time would already help a lot. It would take away from the passivity of infantry and give them more opportunities and freedom. Because right now infantry gameplay on battle mode is quite depressive, since you can only react to the other classes, while those classes enjoy a much higher flexibility. Which is quite frustrating, and "deadlyness" doesn't change much on this.
Title: Re: Archerfest
Post by: Rumblood on July 13, 2013, 06:13:33 pm
Raising the skill floor can only be part of the solution. The problem is, that never mind how difficult you make shooting, with missile speed, arrow drop, wind, bird poo or anything, the interaction with your target is very low.

Yep. No matter how *skill based* you make it, inevitably some jackass through reductio absurdum will once again simplify the mechanics to "point and click". It already is far from that, but they say it with a straight face anyhow.

They should make 2H more skill based than who can spam left click faster. (See what I did there?)