cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Canuck on June 30, 2013, 12:53:20 am
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Sorry if this has been brought up before. I'm just wanting to hear other peoples opinions on this. I've been told to loom armour once I have all my weapons done, but it just doesn't seem worth it to me. I generally use agility builds and low/medium tier armour, lately the heavy aketon mostly. Fully loomed the heavy aketon only goes up from 30 body and 10 leg to 34 and 14 armour values respectively. Should I actually spend 3 generations worth of time and effort on that?
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Honestly if you are going to be retiring anyway, there is not reason to not get your armor loomed (after weapons). Wearing medium armor (mail hauberk) myself I found I survived a lot longer with loomed head/body armor.
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Unless you want a really rare armor piece, you don't need to retire 3 times but about 2 times plus investing some gold on the marketplace. You get many common armors for 2 LPs and 50-200k gold. :)
If you plan to retire anyway, may it be for gold or enjoying many different builds or going high generations, it is worth for sure.
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Anything that get's "reinforced" at +3 (meaning it gets only +4 armor) isn't worth looming unless you already have some spare looms because it's a pretty low armor anyway.
+3 "Lordly" items (usually those weighting more than 7) get +5 bonus armor and coupled with loomed gloves make quite a big difference in your survivability.
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If you wear that armor anyway though and got the time to play for LPs, you can still loom reinforced stuff. ^^
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Loom gloves first
Same advantage, good market value and if you change build/appearance/rp they don't have to get traded on.
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its nice to have, but you will die just as quickly. Armour isnt really helping that much.
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loomed armour + gloves is really worth it.
+10 armour for no extra weight. Thats about 10K or 7 weight worth of extra armour (light kuyak vs khergit elite). Or putting it another way about %20 extra armour for no disadvantage when considering most medium tier armours.
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I have +3 armor and +3 gloves with my 8IF char, its nice versus weak players but helps only in few situations
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Heirlooming isnt really worth it AT ALL.
Even in full +3 you'll be only around 5% more resilient/stronger/faster.
This +5% can save your ass some time, but 95% of your skill is keyboard/mouse + build; heirlooming is for me only a long term goal and a desire to be the best at all cost. Its an efficient way to enhance the replayability of the game :D
BUT, the most "interesting items" to heirlooms are definitely those that :
- puts you in a "very high" item value (like heirlooming heaviest armors, or faster/stronger weapon; it then becomes "unbeatable" in its category)
- have multi-layered heirloom item bonus : armors have only 1-2 bonus values (1 armor type, or 2 (for the chest, or even 3 in the case of the gothic plate with bevor)); the horses have 4-5 stats bonus (armor, hit points, speed, manoeuvrability AND CHARGE) and a few weapons have 3 stats bonus (speed, damage and weight)
Those are definitely the first to be heirloomed if you want to be the most efficient;
If you want style, heirloom what you want!
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Heirlooming isnt really worth it AT ALL.
Even in full +3 you'll be only around 5% more resilient/stronger/faster.
This +5% can save your ass some time, but 95% of your skill is keyboard/mouse + build; heirlooming is for me only a long term goal and a desire to be the best at all cost. Its an efficient way to enhance the replayability of the game :D
BUT, the most "interesting items" to heirlooms are definitely those that :
- puts you in a "very high" item value (like heirlooming heaviest armors, or faster/stronger weapon; it then becomes "unbeatable" in its category)
- have multi-layered heirloom item bonus : armors have only 1-2 bonus values (1 armor type, or 2 (for the chest, or even 3 in the case of the gothic plate with bevor)); the horses have 4-5 stats bonus (armor, hit points, speed, manoeuvrability AND CHARGE) and a few weapons have 3 stats bonus (speed, damage and weight)
Those are definitely the first to be heirloomed if you want to be the most efficient;
If you want style, heirloom what you want!
Generally, going from no looms to full looms is equivalent to gaining:
+1 free level of Power Strike
+2 free levels of Weapon Master (+1 speed)
+2 free levels of Shield Skill (when looming a shield)
+6-8 free levels of Ironflesh (+10 armor)
+1-2 free levels of riding (when looming a horse)
+1 level of power throw/draw (when looming ranged)
So if you are a hybrid like me, you gain like 15 skill points worth of upgrades by looming. Or you could think of it as being 5 levels higher. That's a big deal!
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Its a bit less than that, but I had forgot that heirlooming an item that is then multiplied by each skill point you have (especially PS/PT/PD for raw damage, and the horses stats multiplied by riding) makes it more worthwhile than I first though indeed!
The weapon master and iron flesh skill is pretty much under powered though, so your comparison chart is of course very high when you talk of those 2 skills.
Still, a good player with a good build will 9 times out of 10 do wonder even with full +0 !
On topic : heirlooming armour should be done last, after weapons and or horses :P
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As an archer using same set all the time (heavy aketon+3 and mail gauntlets +3) i can tell that difference between nan loomed and loomed ligtharmor is noticable.
My non loomed equip have 34 body armor, loomed 43 so difference is big IMO. You can survive one more hit sometimes an belive me, it helps a lot.
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Loom gloves first
Same advantage, good market value and if you change build/appearance/rp they don't have to get traded on.
no no no. Why would you loom gloves first? Only reason to do that, would be if you switch your builds a lot and wouldn't use the same body armor from one gen to the next.
if you're going to be able to keep using the same body armor, then loom your body armor before your gloves. It's simple math really...
A +3 body armor (at lordly) is going to give you 5 more body and 5 more leg armor
+3 gloves will give you 5 more body armor.
What's better, 5 more leg and body armor, or just 5 more body armor?
After your horse, then weapon, I'd suggest looming your body armor.
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^Mate leg armour is for newbs (see light kuyak, archons armour, sarranid guard armour)
But seriously I don't rate leg armour all that much unless you are cav. I can use the same gloves on all my characters even if my body armour is too heavy to use on my archer alt. Weapon, Gloves, Armour.
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I would say looming hand armor is very important for people like me who change builds often or throw them between alts. Not to mention they give you good leverage in the market as loomed gauntlets are almost always in demand, so you get a little extra buying power if you want to trade them. From my experiences anyways
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Yes looming hand armor is the way to go if you switch your body armor around, or if you switch up your builds regularly. For people trying to be as efficient as possible, I suggest they pick a build and stick with it so that they can start building up the best possible heirlooms for their character.
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Gloves are the critical thing. They can give you another +5 body armor without any weight penalty. Lordly heavy gauntlets give you a full +10 or more to your body armor: that's like swapping a semi-heavy armor for a tincan in native.
After gloves, keep looms secured until you see an offer that fits your favorite armor.
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Looming armor is critical if you have enough IF to support it. Full tincan plate and 8 IF make the difference.
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^I find loomed armour to be just as important on high ath characters.
Being one hit is never fun
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If you always use the same body armor, get +3 body armor early (if it is lordly; do other things if you want to have one that tops out at reinforced). Any gloves besides leather gloves become "lordly" at +3 and give the same bonus as +3 body armor does. If you loom gloves first, you can play with many different body armors until you find one whose stats or appearance really fit you. If weight matters to your build FOR ANY REASON, gloves are always better to loom first. Even counting the x8 penalty for glove weight when you use ranged, heirloomed gloves are still more efficient than heirloomed armor.
+3 gloves are also one of the easiest +3 items to trade. If you change your mind, you can break even or get a profit trading +3 gloves for almost anything within the same day you put the offer on marketplace. If you have +3 lordly armor and +3 lordly gloves, that's 10 more armor with no increase in weight or repair cost. That's a huge difference even with 0 IF skill. Unless you are a master at blocking, heirloomed armor is a very tangible increase in power.
I still prefer to loom weapons first on any build, but that's my opinion. Even if the benefits aren't as big. If you can kill someone before they even hit you, your loomed armor doesn't matter at all.
On the other hand, my heavy armor longmaul build has +3 armor and +3 gloves. With 6 IF, the change from 7 + 53 (60) to 12 + 58 (70) means you can take about 10 hits in melee instead of 5-6. Your build and playstyle matter more than anything else when you are deciding what to loom.
edit: +3 armors make a huge difference, even on low weight ranged builds. If you can take 2 hits instead of 1, it lets you fuck up ONCE PER ROUND instead of being instantly punished with death for bad positioning or team support. Makes it easier to learn from your mistakes, since you can immediately act on them instead of waiting until next round to figure out what you can do to be better.
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Does loomed armors have more upkeep ?
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Does loomed armors have more upkeep ?
No, loomed items always have the same upkeep.
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There was simple rule for any light armored character - you must survive arbalest bodyshot (because other dangers can be blocked, avoided, dodged etc). Year ago this level of survability was about 42-45 body armor (armor+gauntlets). This can be a starting point for you.
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Lol, you can get +10 body, +10 leg and +5 body armour from looming and all of that without any disadvantages whatsoever. Even for the lower tier armours the weight less armour increases allow you to be extremely fast while being quite well protected.
Horrible grind2win system if you ask me. Whether it's worth the time is a question only you can answer, but you are going to be at a considerable disadvantage forever if you are not willing to put hundreds of hours into retiring and grinding. Shit system is shit.
Also:
Heavy Aketon 30 -> 34 = 13,3% increase
Milanese Plate 59 -> 64 = 8,5% increase
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Lol, you can get +10 body, +10 leg and +5 body armour from looming and all of that without any disadvantages whatsoever. Even for the lower tier armours the weight less armour increases allow you to be extremely fast while being quite well protected.
Horrible grind2win system if you ask me. Whether it's worth the time is a question only you can answer, but you are going to be at a considerable disadvantage forever if you are not willing to put hundreds of hours into retiring and grinding. Shit system is shit.
Also:
Heavy Aketon 30 -> 34 = 13,3% increase
Milanese Plate 59 -> 64 = 8,5% increase
With 34 body armor you are butter. With 75 body armor you are a rock. That 8.5% matters, trust me.
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^I dont think you get it
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grinding.
There is no "grinding" in cRPG. Grinding implies doing something that's not fun so you can do something that is fun. Like doing endless stupid quests or dungeons in a MMORPG so you can go on raids.
In cRPG, playing the game is the fun part. There is no other boring thing you have to do so you can play the game. The attack/block mechanics work the same whether you are a peasant or a lvl 35 juggernaut in full looms. Heirlooms just add a level of customization that makes you feel attached to your equipment choices. Nobody "needs" them to have fun.
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There is no "grinding" in cRPG. Grinding implies doing something that's not fun so you can do something that is fun. Like doing endless stupid quests or dungeons in a MMORPG so you can go on raids.
In cRPG, playing the game is the fun part. There is no other boring thing you have to do so you can play the game. The attack/block mechanics work the same whether you are a peasant or a lvl 35 juggernaut in full looms. Heirlooms just add a level of customization that makes you feel attached to your equipment choices. Nobody "needs" them to have fun.
I'd rather interpret grinding as having to do something that is 'less fun' so you can have more fun later. With being able to compete and do awesome as a level 35 fully stacked with looms being the 'optimal fun', and playing as a level 23 post retirement with very little looms being 'less fun'. Competing and doing good is half the fun for me in this game, and judging from the level of min maxing in this game, I am not alone.
Therefore, retiring is grinding in my book. Everytime you click retire you reduce your ability to compete so you can compete better later on. Sure, kicking some level 30 ass as a level 15 is fun, but level 20-30 is horrible in my opinion. You are just a little slower, hit a little less hard and are a little less resilient than everyone else. Pisses me the fuck off and I'm glad I got enough looms. Tell me with a straight face you haven't wished that you were back to high level after retirement, cause if you did, you were grinding.
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I'd rather interpret grinding as having to do something that is 'less fun' so you can have more fun later. With being able to compete and do awesome as a level 35 fully stacked with looms being the 'optimal fun', and playing as a level 23 post retirement with very little looms being 'less fun'. Competing and doing good is half the fun for me in this game, and judging from the level of min maxing in this game, I am not alone.
Therefore, retiring is grinding in my book. Everytime you click retire you reduce your ability to compete so you can compete better later on. Sure, kicking some level 30 ass as a level 15 is fun, but level 20-30 is horrible in my opinion. You are just a little slower, hit a little less hard and are a little less resilient than everyone else. Pisses me the fuck off and I'm glad I got enough looms. Tell me with a straight face you haven't wished that you were back to high level after retirement, cause if you did, you were grinding.
I pretty much haven't done anything in cRPG that wasn't more fun than I could have in any other game. I never thought Battle was fun, so I don't play it. But Siege is fun at any level. It's fun with no looms, and fun with full looms. I don't retire any more, but I remember siege being just as much fun back when I was retiring every time I hit 31 (15 times).
Compare that to WoW, which was fun about 5% of the time, and mindless unchallenging repetitive crap the other 95% of the time.
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I kinda agree with both Teeth and Phew here.
In cRPG even retiring is not as "GRIND-ish" as most things in other games...BUT retiring DOES suck in my book and that's why I no longer do it.
** I wouldn't mind if they reworked the retiring process **
...It could still TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT OF EXP (and therefore time), but what if you were lvl 30 the entire time (or at least start from 25 or something)? You'd still have to regain the 8.5 million exp or whatever it takes, you just wouldn't have to start at lvl 1 again. That way there's still the time sink and something to work towards, but without the aspect of becoming weak as shit for a while each time.
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Looms/retiring just add lifetime and re-playability to the mod, every good game has something like it. Like prestige mode in Call of Duty. That is one of the reasons I play, to get better equipment via looms.
So loom what you want it's always good to get better stats.
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So what gloves should I heirloom?
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I would say hourglass, they look sexy with almost all armor. Not too heavy and not light either. That is if you're melee.
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Any glove is good to heirloom.
Stick to one you like and that is compatible with the armours you like.
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Hourglass or mail gauntlets.
I can't stand mittens
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Loom heavy gauntles if you want to look like a min-maxing scrub.
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Loom expensive gauntlets if you want to lose gold.
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^Im pretty sure that optimum power to weight comes from medium armor + medium gloves. Light armour and heavy gloves has a higher effective weight assuming the same final armour value.