cRPG
cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: Jacko on June 29, 2013, 03:06:35 pm
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So, I'm stepping down from Scene Editing and mapping in general. I'm busy with Melee and stuff, so I don't really have the time nor energy to give it the attention it deserves.
This leaves us in need of someone that feels he or she is up for the task of managing and updating maps and rotations, as well as taking care of the Scene Editing subforum.
Anyone thinking this could be their thing would need to be familiar with the module system and be able to take care of map related issues (in editor and in module system).
Responsibilities include:
-Reviewing new maps
-Adding and updating new maps to the module system (transitional period required, you'd start with handing the changes over to me or someone else for implementation)
-Updating rotations for EU and NA
-Updating threads in Scene Editing
-Searching for new maps outside of cRPG
-IRC availability is a must
-Obey Mustikki at any desires she might have
I'll still be around of course, to help out and oversee, and possibly smooth the transition period (if there is a need). If by chance we have an abundant amount of people applying who meet the standards, I'd have no problem adding several people as Scene Managers. Apply in this thread with a short summary of your skills and why you think you would be a good Scene Manger.
This is a tricky position and they honeymoon period will be over sooner rather than later. Know that you will never please everyone, and that this should never be your concern either.
Feel free to ask me any questions, be it here, a PM or on IRC.
/Jacko
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FIPS!
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Finaly, my maps will be heard! :twisted:
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I apply
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I think Fips, Zlisch or Jarold would be the best choices for this.
Dunno how I forgot about Obitus. He would be good for this, too.
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FIPS!
I almost feel honoured that one of Panos last posts with this account was dedicated to me, hehe. :D
Well, i wanted to post my application here once more but i can't seem to find it in the messages index and i'm not going to bother writing a new one just for this thread. But since jacko got it already, it doesn't matter i guess.
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Fips and Obitus for scene managers! I would love to be a scene manager but I think I am too lazy.
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I'm also still in here even i'm a bit busy in RL works.
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FIPS !
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I would like to apply for this. I have made a handful of decent maps and really enjoyed doing it, and will continue to do so as soon as scene management is a bit more responsive to new maps. I am a long time player with clear opinions on mapping for both siege and battle. I am reasonably active both ingame and on the forum. I would have to work in my IRC activity but that should be no problem. I think I am a reasonable guy and I am always willing to explain my views and actions, and I am not too afraid to step on someone's toes.
I think mapping is very important to a game like this and if I can do my part to liven up the mapping scene I'd gladly do it.
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+1 for Teeth
Even if i had some difficulties in the past with him, (which mostly happened because of me :rolleyes:)
He knows how to make maps, and i consider him as mature enough for this position.
About Fips, i dont know him and his maps tbh. probably mostly siege maps i guess :wink:
but as far as i saw his activities on the forum i would atleast from the maturity consider him also as usefull :)
About Zlisch , i think he is a nice and friendly guy, atleast thats how i experienced him, though he is sometimes atleast according to ingame/forum activity kind of a troll :wink:
And i have no doubts that he is a mature guy irl , but i think a position of this importance requires a guy who is respected and taken serious from mostly all the community.
Just felt like throwing my opinion inside the ring :wink:
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I would love to apply as an assistant to this if that is possible...
I've made a couple maps that are still in rotation (think most people like them, Rochester, Devonshire, and Himmelsberg Monastery - link in my sig) and a rotation with strong maps that change over time to avoid staleness is something important to me.
I am too busy to be the main point person though I'm afraid :(
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Either way I'm excited for there to be some change - something has needed to happen with this side of things.
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Elindor would be just the perfect man for this. Bright and sharp. I love his maps. Too bad he doesn't have the time.
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Back in town, sup thread 8-)
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Elindor would be just the perfect man for this. Bright and sharp. I love his maps. Too bad he doesn't have the time.
Thanks!
I'll help out however I can. I'd love to assist Fips or Obitus or Teeth or Zlisch or whoever...just excited for things to be moving.
I wouldn't mind reviewing maps, or helping to make sure new updates get uploaded to the server (although, as Ive mentioned before I think we are still at the mercy of the core devs for them to restart the servers before anything goes live)
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guys guys guys... it doesnt have to be just ONE scene manager.
Every one who showed interest in this thread, is part of the few people that are still concerned about SCENE EDITING.
We are all part of the same club, our duty is to review the maps and decide, in a democracy, wich maps will me added.
The task of talking to jacko and updating the map rotation can be anyone's who has SPARE TIME.
reading this thread makes me inspired to make maps, now knowing the community isint dead after all.
I suggest a vote to elect the responsible of updating the rotation.
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guys guys guys... it doesnt have to be just ONE scene manager.
Every one who showed interest in this thread, is part of the few people that are still concerned about SCENE EDITING.
We are all part of the same club, our duty is to review the maps and decide, in a democracy, wich maps will me added.
The task of talking to jacko and updating the map rotation can be anyone's who has SPARE TIME.
reading this thread makes me inspired to make maps, now knowing the community isint dead after all.
I suggest a vote to elect the responsible of updating the rotation.
I agree.
I think there should be a SCENE MANAGER and a SCENE TEAM and that scene manager is the one ultimately responsible but the team assists him in those tasks, voting on maps, map rotations, helping make updates, etc.
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I agree.
I think there should be a SCENE MANAGER and a SCENE TEAM and that scene manager is the one ultimately responsible but the team assists him in those tasks, voting on maps, map rotations, helping make updates, etc.
I really like this idea. Especially a combination of NA and EU would do this very good. As far as i can tell the playstyles of NA and EU are generally quite different, which should also be considered when choosing maps, so i don't think too many cooks will spoil the broth in this particular case.
Anyway, i'm hoping jacko hurries up with his decision, the servers struggle with the same map-cycles for several months now and the earlier this gets through, the earlier the new scene manager can rework the cycle and annoy chadz to push the patch-button for updated map-cycles.
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Such team was created before, Mappers Guild or something like that, but i wasent here back than.
I think the manager should put up a voting thread, in order to decide if the map goes, or not, in the server rotation.
(just like Elindor said)
I know that once the Scene manager is elected, all of us will be activly reviewing maps, giving feedback, and voting.
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I'm not sure how everyone wants to arrange this but no matter what everyone ends up deciding I will volunteer to review every map in rotation.
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Fips you are right, the Scene Team should be built from roughly half NA and roughly half EU for balance.
Afonsoserro, I founded the Mapper's Guild a while back...it unfortunately was just a club to share info, and had no official standing or role.
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I'd love to hear Jacko's response to the SCENE MANAGER & SCENE TEAM idea.
I'd nominate FIPS for Scene Manager, and (so far) myself, Zlisch, Obitus, Jarold, Teeth, Alsonsoserro, Mustikki? and whoever else is interested for Scene Team. Not sure how many of those are EU or NA...I know myself, Zlisch (?) and Jarold are NA.
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Put me down for the Scene Team too please. EU.
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Let's not get ahead of ourselfs, shall we? Let jacko comment on this first before we start to nominate anyone =P
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Not sure how many of those are EU or NA...I know myself, Zlisch (?) and Jarold are NA.
I live in Europe.
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I will gladly take part on the team, EU.
As for the manager, im not so sure who to choose, i didnt get to meet most of the guys, i noticed how Obitus as been active lately, and Fips as well.
Im fine with either one, or any one who believes its up for the task.
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I live in Europe.
Yeah wasn't sure.
Well, looks like so far me and Jarold lol.....
We'll have to find another one or two from NA.
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I'm NA
Disclaimer - I only play / know about battle maps
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I'm NA
Disclaimer - I only play / know about battle maps
Oh nice!
Well that's fine...I know siege maps very well, and I think Jarold does too.
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I ( used ) to play a lot of both, and I try to keep up to date. If this scene team thing is happening, we need to make some NA scene team jerseys. :D
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I agree.
I think there should be a SCENE MANAGER and a SCENE TEAM and that scene manager is the one ultimately responsible but the team assists him in those tasks, voting on maps, map rotations, helping make updates, etc.
Good idea, this sounds kewl!
Elindor you would be perfect for this, you obviously have a good understanding of what makes a fun siege map!
Also, your suggestions on my past map attempts were very helpful. You'd fill the role quite well I think ^_^
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Personally I see no need for a dedicated scene team, to use a swedish proverb; "The more chefs, the worse the soup". We want to keep the organization as flat as possible, not bog it down further with more bureaucracy. We already have threads were people can post feedback (which I did use a lot). Do we really need another layer?
What we really need, is a couple of dedicated Scene Reviewers who can provide feedback and good critique to people submitting new maps.
However, the scene managers are free to create scene teams (or whatever you wish to call it) as they see fit, I'm only interested in seeing a functional (for lack of better words), organization, and if that is what they want... *shrug*
The two candidates that have replied so far in this thread are Fips and Teeth. General deadline for applications will be on Sunday (the 7th), after we'll swiftly decide who gets the roles and hopefully put em to work.
A likely 'hierarchy' would looks something like this:
Scene Devs (implementing code and maps, appointing new Scene roles)
Mustikki, [Jacko]
Scene Managers (reviewing maps, fixing and preparing code, adding/removing maps, editing rotations)
Scene Reviewers (reviewing maps, commenting on rotations)
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Sounds great! I will be happy to review battle scenes.
i can guarantee that whenever a new scene comes up in rotation that the servers will erupt in cheers.
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I think basically every language has this kind of saying, ha. In english they spoil the broth, in germany they ruin the mush...and so on.
Anyway, from the posts here the so called Scene Team was a bunch of people helping the scene manager(s) with the reviewing of maps or just generally advices on the rotation, so basically what you had in mind just with a fancier name^^
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Fips, my idea of the team is not like you say it is at all.
The idea is to make a voting thread for each map to be added. Then, the team votes until the pole expires, (lets say, one week). And the manager would be only responsible for updating the rotation, and other burocracys.
The good thing about the team, is that the votes would always be solid and reasoned. If you'd put the pole open for everybody it would be anarchy, (not greater good at all)
In conclusion, the team is very inportant and necessary indeed, and its not just for giving feedback.
Hope my english was understandable, Cheers.
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Votes on every map for over a week? That sounds like a horrible idea, so much more work and time that is not really necessary.
A Scene Team around Scene Managers sounds like a great idea, especially if it's a mix-up of NA and EU, but a few people who call the shots (and someone you can blame, haha) is definitely a must. But then again, that's basically what jacko was saying from the beginning.
Maybe it's for the best to just wait on jackos decision and see how he/she/it/them will deal with it. As long as we map-makers can finally get back to updating and making new maps, i'm fine with whatever there will be.
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I think that Scene Team = Scene Reviewers
I like the hierarchy you stated Jacko (I think you maybe thought I was implying more than I was, but in reality my thought of hierarchy was similar to what you stated), and I would request to be a Scene Reviewer, not sure I have the time to be a Scene Manager.
For Scene Manager(s), both Fips and Teeth would be great if we need more than 1. If we need only 1 then I'd go with Fips merely because his humping avatar hypnotizes me and makes me feel calm and comforted. :mrgreen: (also because I know HRE loves their siege...amen)
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Maybe it's for the best to just wait on jackos decision and see how he/she/it/them will deal with it. As long as we map-makers can finally get back to updating and making new maps, i'm fine with whatever there will be.
Here here.
I will review battle maps regardless of any official status (as you all know I just can't help myself) but I do have a good sense of what makes a good map despite my trollish ways, and I can usually offer solutions when a map draws groans from a significant portion of the playerbase.
Have some battle mapping guidelines!
1. Avoid uber-campable positions that are too-easily guarded.
A good example of this is Winter Village (Native) which actually breaks 5 of my guidelines. XP Barn is by one team's spawn, has one entrance, shields all interior players from ranged, and makes for very dull games when the tactic is used.
Campable positions shouldn't be undefeatable. The more valuable a camp position is, the further away from spawns it should be. Valuable camp positions should also be equidistant from spawns, like the ruins in Field By The River (Native).
2. Use multiple routes, avoid dead-ends as a rule of thumb.
Seriously. Lots of props and models, unfortunately, have one entrance. These campable dead-ends should usually be barricaded off with stuff that makes it obvious (doors, gates, not just a random wheelbarrow or cart)
3. Steep hills should be inaccessible.
Steep hills (over ~60 degree incline) are unrealistic and never fun to fight on. It's up to us mappers to prevent that from happening, either by keeping these slopes out of the contested areas of the map (example: Glacier Valley) or by using boulders and making some real cliffs.
4. Unbalanced spawns suck
Unbalanced spawns occur when one spawn is near campable areas and one team is not.
5. Keep action away from invisible walls, and make invisible walls obvious.
Invisible walls should be in places it is obvious the players shouldn't be able to go. Have you ever ran in to an invisible wall on Glacier Valley and thought, "WTF INVISIBLE WALL, BS"? Probably not. Many, many maps include scenery and cover directly next to the automatic map borders. I personally fucking HATE those borders more than placed barriers, as unmounted horses vanish when they touch them which is retarded, looks retarded, and is unrealistic as hell.
6. Every battle map needs an area for cavalry.
Yes, you hate cavalry if you don't play it, but cavalry can only play battle and no other gametypes. Every battle map I have ever seen that requires dismounting has been removed from rotation.
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Jacko, are the Scene Devs (you and Mustikki) going to have the ability to make things live through server restarting or whatever? Or is that something that we'll still have to wait on people like chadz/cmp to do?