cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Strudog on June 21, 2013, 12:28:10 pm

Title: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Strudog on June 21, 2013, 12:28:10 pm
At the moment the long maul is probably one of the worse weapons in the game, its damage is too low for how slow it is, you have to hold your swing for 1 sec to get crushthrough.

The Long maul is in actual fact the slowest weapon in the game, please it either  damage buff or a speed buuf

Thank you

Strudog
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Torben on June 21, 2013, 12:29:38 pm
maybe give it old crushthrough?   would be ok for this wep imo
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Latvian on June 21, 2013, 12:40:52 pm
i say leave it as it is, it has longest reach for crushthrough weapons and it should not be abused, in right hands this weapon is way more dangerous than great maul or anything.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Teeth on June 21, 2013, 12:50:22 pm
The Long maul is in actual fact the slowest weapon in the game
Bitch please

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Also, couch lances.

That said, I agree with the sentiment. The Long Maul is a joke and has been for all eternity. As a polearmer that used to sometimes maul on siege, I'd picked a Great Maul with 0 wpf over the long Maul with a 160. 10 less speed, 6 less damage and 1 less weight. All that for 120 length which is impossible to use to its full extent due to the slow speed and is in the first place still shorter than almost any weapon.

in right hands this weapon is way more dangerous than great maul or anything.
Tell me whos magical hands you are referring to, because I can't think of anyone. Great Maul shits over the Long Maul.

First things first, revert the model back to the boulder on a stick, the people want it! Secondly, increase speed, damage or weight, or a combination of the three. It is simply a bad weapon.

Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: sF_Guardian on June 21, 2013, 01:13:36 pm
Well, I loved it either with 36/3 or 18/18 before but now it's really a pot of piss.
And this Model... fuckin hurts my eyes like hell.
GIVE THE BOULDER BACK!
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 21, 2013, 01:31:37 pm
Bitch please

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Also, couch lances.

That said, I agree with the sentiment. The Long Maul is a joke and has been for all eternity. As a polearmer that used to sometimes maul on siege, I'd picked a Great Maul with 0 wpf over the long Maul with a 160. 10 less speed, 6 less damage and 1 less weight. All that for 120 length which is impossible to use to its full extent due to the slow speed and is in the first place still shorter than almost any weapon.
Tell me whos magical hands you are referring to, because I can't think of anyone. Great Maul shits over the Long Maul.

First things first, revert the model back to the boulder on a stick, the people want it! Secondly, increase speed, damage or weight, or a combination of the three. It is simply a bad weapon.

Maybe they should just resize it out to 140 or 150?
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: jacouille on June 21, 2013, 01:35:02 pm
The damage are already quite important ... It's hard to survive 2 hits of this weapon ...
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: vipere on June 21, 2013, 01:48:57 pm
Long maul was fine  : 4-5 dedicated Long maul users in Eu

they nerfed long maul : none use it

GOOOOD    JOOOOOOOB

Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Gurnisson on June 21, 2013, 01:49:48 pm
It's complete garbage.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: the real god emperor on June 21, 2013, 01:57:01 pm
Well, i used to play with a +3 Long Maul, its easy to play seriously, when you swing it, people gets mindfucked, because your swing will be a delaying hit,   which makes people confuse.Also mostly at first hit, it knocks you down,and you can land another it, its pretty useful with heavy armor. But the problem is; They re not dying! You nearly got no kills at the end of the map even on siege! If you go for a STR build then everyone blocks you easily then spams you to death,if you go for agi build no one will die until you land 3 hits on the head! Buff buff buff!

edit: also crushthrough of it is a complete bs after the last nerf.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Ronin on June 21, 2013, 01:59:21 pm
First things first, revert the model back to the boulder on a stick, the people want it!
Can't agree more!
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: karasu on June 21, 2013, 02:11:48 pm
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OR GTFO
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: the real god emperor on June 21, 2013, 02:12:21 pm
Zhe mighty banhammer!
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Fips on June 21, 2013, 02:34:02 pm
Nubert used to be a beast with the Long Maul and even he stopped using it after the latest nerf of it.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 21, 2013, 02:36:10 pm
Bitch please

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Bitch please

Morningstar+shield got the lowest weapon speed in the mod.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: NuberT on June 21, 2013, 02:50:27 pm
kinda miss playing long maul, but actually playing it made me GTX within 5 minutes since the crushthrough nerf..

gameplay is soooo far away from what it was in early 2011, when people bounced in close combat and you could actually make an overhead without beeing interrupted, which even dealt some damage.

*wallowing in memories*  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Arthur_ on June 21, 2013, 04:12:24 pm
im gonna respec my main to long maul user so I will become a dying species.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Prpavi on June 21, 2013, 04:23:12 pm
bUFF LONG MAUL AND NERF 2H!
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Tibe on June 21, 2013, 04:28:07 pm
Its so pathetic that nobody even uses it as a jokeweapon for the lols. Thats how fucking seriuslly it needs a buff.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Torben on June 21, 2013, 06:39:24 pm
Its so pathetic that nobody even uses it as a jokeweapon for the lols. Thats how fucking seriuslly it needs a buff.

this!  I so much enjoyed putting on my clowns costume and lolling around with it :/  and it was just right!  not up not op,  just right!  ahrg.  the turnrate nurf already fucked it good,  but the crushthrough killed it :'I
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 21, 2013, 07:29:58 pm
There's a suggestion part of the forums, doesn't surprise me that strudog would feel he's above posting in the correct part of the forums.  Goes nicely with his sense of entitlement (aka Mr. "another class is getting the best of me, nerf that class").

I think long maul is fine as it is, personally.  It's a nice weapon that I use on strategus sieges and it gets the job done.  It's got a very long length for still dealing crush through.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Strudog on June 21, 2013, 10:06:48 pm
Cracka post me a good score with the Long maul in battle, i sometimes get lucky and get 20 kills plus but that comes with a lot of hard work, more work than any other weapon
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 21, 2013, 10:11:14 pm
Cracka post me a good score with the Long maul in battle, i sometimes get lucky and get 20 kills plus but that comes with a lot of hard work, more work than any other weapon

Ok well I'll grant you that I could never get 20 kills in a battle server with a long maul, and it would be harder to do than with almost any other weapon...I still don't think that makes it underpowered though...I think of it more as a support weapon (or a situation specific weapon).  I also wouldn't expect to get 20 kills as an archer or pikeman.   It swings very slow, so I think that's the main reason you wouldn't get as many kills with it.

I don't see how you can justify a speed buff for it, since it's the longest crush through weapon in the game.  That's the trade-off for it.  You get a long crush through weapon, but it's one of the slowest weapons in the game, and not as strong as other crushthrough weapons. 

37 blunt is a great deal of damage being dealt, I can't see a justification for increasing the damage or the speed of it.  And I think it's very useful in siege maps, and can see it being useful on battle as well (in strategus) as a support weapon.  Once you have the weapon chambered, it's not really that slow to swing forward.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to take it into the battle server on NA1 or EU battle server though...I think I'd get reamed most rounds.  But I don't think that qualifies it for a buff...

*EDIT*  I think an acceptable buff might be to increase the length some, as Frank suggested.  Or possibly the weight as Teeth suggested.  I don't think increasing the speed or the damage is the right direction though.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Strudog on June 21, 2013, 10:30:32 pm
Ok well I'll grant you that I could never get 20 kills in a battle server with a long maul, and it would be harder to do than with almost any other weapon...I still don't think that makes it underpowered though...I think of it more as a support weapon (or a situation specific weapon).  I also wouldn't expect to get 20 kills as an archer or pikeman.   It swings very slow, so I think that's the main reason you wouldn't get as many kills with it.

I don't see how you can justify a speed buff for it, since it's the longest crush through weapon in the game.  That's the trade-off for it.  You get a long crush through weapon, but it's one of the slowest weapons in the game, and not as strong as other crushthrough weapons. 

37 blunt is a great deal of damage being dealt, I can't see a justification for increasing the damage or the speed of it.  And I think it's very useful in siege maps, and can see it being useful on battle as well (in strategus) as a support weapon.  Once you have the weapon chambered, it's not really that slow to swing forward.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to take it into the battle server on NA1 or EU battle server though...I think I'd get reamed most rounds.  But I don't think that qualifies it for a buff...


But thats not how c-rpg works, or have you been playing another game?
Every weapon should at least be at least a viable weapon in battle or siege, but i believe that it is not viable in both scenarios. In strat i would be very surprised to see anyone use a long maul as its just a pile of rubbish.

With Nubert no longer using it in siege and Nicko no longer using it in battle, why should it only be confounded to strategus sieges. Compared to the Long Maul which more than viable in these fields especially strategus.

I will see people use  a Long maul in battle and get rid of it very quickly because they realise how crap it is, i only use it in battle because all other polearms have become boring for me and it is just a challenge to do well with it, without support the Long maul is useless.

As your support argument it is not valid, the longspear and pike are meant to be support weapons but they do fine in many different situations in the right hands.

Every weapon should be viable in each mode and have somewhat a place on the battlefield

With Nubert no longer using it on siege, Nicko no longer using it in battle
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Penguin on June 21, 2013, 10:34:02 pm
Mastering the long maul is definitely a challenge. I've used it lately in strat battles. It is very good in castle sieges if you're on the defenders and the attackers are attempting to ladder or have to push through a relatively confined area. It also was decent as attackers in a field battle even if you got stuck dueling 1 or 2 people. But I can't argue that a mighty long hafted spiked mace would probably do the job just as well or even better in place of the long maul, whose only upside would be the crushthrough. That said, it's probably the most fun I have had running around as a long mauler in a strat battle trying to crush through waves of my enemies. If you do have a strat army, I would definitely recommend buying 50 or so long mauls for any kind of situation.

Anyways strudog, since you asked for it, here are some of my scores with the long maul.

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=4075  58:37, Attackers in Field Battle
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=4052  44:28, Attackers in Field Battle
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=4039  57:31, Defenders in Castle Siege
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=4010  56:21, Defenders in Castle Siege
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=3997  83:26, Defenders in Castle Siege

Edit: oh wait you meant in battle. I guess you'll just have to take my word on it that I do occasionally go long maul on battle and do pretty well  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 21, 2013, 10:36:01 pm
I have one at +3 and would love to see it receive a minor buff. However, I don't think it needs one at all. I can do very well with the long maul on my alt. He is below level 30, 18/18 build that isn't even complete yet.

It's a tough weapon to master, though. Unbalanced, knockdown, and 120 length can lead to a lot of teamhits/kills and knockdowns that lead to a teamate's death. You gotta be careful!
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Strudog on June 21, 2013, 10:37:47 pm
Mastering the long maul is definitely a challenge. I've used it lately in strat battles. It is very good in castle sieges if you're on the defenders and the attackers are attempting to ladder or have to push through a relatively confined area. It also was decent as attackers in a field battle even if you got stuck dueling 1 or 2 people. But I can't argue that a mighty long hafted spiked mace would probably do the job just as well or even better in place of the long maul, whose only upside would be the crushthrough. That said, it's probably the most fun I have had running around as a long mauler in a strat battle trying to crush through waves of my enemies. If you do have a strat army, I would definitely recommend buying 50 or so long mauls for any kind of situation.

Anyways strudog, since you asked for it, here are some of my scores with the long maul.

http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=4075  58:37, Attackers in Field Battle
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=4052  44:28, Attackers in Field Battle
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=4039  57:31, Defenders in Castle Siege
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=4010  56:21, Defenders in Castle Siege
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesparticipated#!?page=battleroster&id=3997  83:26, Defenders in Castle Siege

Edit: oh wait you meant in battle. I guess you'll just have to take my word on it that I do occasionally go long maul on battle and do pretty well  :mrgreen:

less than 2:1 KD wouldnt say that you did well with it

Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Artyem on June 21, 2013, 10:38:38 pm
Fuck it, just bring back the Boulder on a Stick.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 21, 2013, 10:42:39 pm
Strudog you're not supposed to be able to 1v1 or 1vmany with every single weapon in the game.  Most weapons and classes have strengths and weaknesses, and are stronger in some situations, and weak in others.  Some of those playstyles and weapons can very easily 1v1 or 1vmany, but there are a lot that cannot. I see that as being the case with the long maul.  But even the long maul is able to 1v1 or 1vmany in the right circumstances. 

I would be against the dev's buffing the cleaver so that it can just as easily win a 1v1 as a longsword user.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Penguin on June 21, 2013, 10:48:41 pm
less than 2:1 KD wouldnt say that you did well with it

Well, it is mainly a support weapon and teamwork + leadership play a greater factor than you might think in strat battles. I wasn't trying to brag and my melee skills are pretty sub-par still; just showing you what I consider to be a decent performance relative to everyone else in the battle.

Also I'm in favor of the buff of long maul: http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/save-the-long-maul/msg785273/#msg785273
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 21, 2013, 10:50:36 pm
Well the one time the long maul was OP as fuck, Jesus had me in the middle of a huge river (pretty sure I was far out in the Caravan ambush map) and Jesus and a shielder were closing in on me.  There was literally nothing I could do because in order for me to close the gap and get a hit on him, was too slow compared to how long it took to chamber and swing the long maul.  So there are situations (that I put myself in) where the long maul could be considered "OP".  Just sayin

/probably one of maybe a handful of times I was actually frustrated at c-rpg, and surprise surprise, I put myself in that situation.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Tydeus on June 21, 2013, 11:26:24 pm
Just leaving this here. Might want to change weeks to months though.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/save-the-long-maul/msg785868/#msg785868 (http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/save-the-long-maul/msg785868/#msg785868)
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Teeth on June 21, 2013, 11:52:36 pm
less than 2:1 KD wouldnt say that you did well with it
Well that is just a fucking unfair thing to say. In every single battle he posted he was one of the top performers, you need to compare his performance with the others in his team and he did excellent in all of them. Get off your high horse, you don't do much better while using a longspear. He is JesusChrist so he is a very nice and modest guy and he turns the other cheek, but you simply cannot call this 'not doing well'. I am properly impressed that he achieved those scores using a long maul. That said, I don't think Strategus should be used as a reference for balance. Look what happened to the Long Voulge and what might happen to my Pike. :|

I used it on battle for a bit and with some effort I can top scoreboards with it. It is truly a support weapon, but it is not that great at supporting due to horrible turnrate, speed and unbalancedness. Teamhitting is extremely hard to avoid. It is truly horrible against any half decent player when not supporting. The slow speed if combined with light-ish armour allows you to walk it into people, making the range seem a lot greater than it is. You could say the low speed is actually a perk for this weapon. To be honest the best fix for the weapon is in my opinion an increase in range, to really set it apart from the 2h mauls and define it's role as a support weapon.. If I recall correctly the Boulder on a Stick model had a longer pole, so if one could move the grip by 10 or 20 and use that model, it would become a really awesome and fun support weapon. If that is deemed to hard I feel like it at least deserves the same damage as the Great Maul, as I think the 10 speed and superior 2h animations is a very good trade off for the 52 length alone. Giving the Long Maul lower damage and weight on top of that makes the Long Maul just much too shit.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Lannistark on June 22, 2013, 12:47:41 am
Buff long maul, so people who use it can now feel like this:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Strudog on June 22, 2013, 04:37:45 am
Well that is just a fucking unfair thing to say. In every single battle he posted he was one of the top performers, you need to compare his performance with the others in his team and he did excellent in all of them. Get off your high horse, you don't do much better while using a longspear. He is JesusChrist so he is a very nice and modest guy and he turns the other cheek, but you simply cannot call this 'not doing well'. I am properly impressed that he achieved those scores using a long maul. That said, I don't think Strategus should be used as a reference for balance. Look what happened to the Long Voulge and what might happen to my Pike. :|

I used it on battle for a bit and with some effort I can top scoreboards with it. It is truly a support weapon, but it is not that great at supporting due to horrible turnrate, speed and unbalancedness. Teamhitting is extremely hard to avoid. It is truly horrible against any half decent player when not supporting. The slow speed if combined with light-ish armour allows you to walk it into people, making the range seem a lot greater than it is. You could say the low speed is actually a perk for this weapon. To be honest the best fix for the weapon is in my opinion an increase in range, to really set it apart from the 2h mauls and define it's role as a support weapon.. If I recall correctly the Boulder on a Stick model had a longer pole, so if one could move the grip by 10 or 20 and use that model, it would become a really awesome and fun support weapon. If that is deemed to hard I feel like it at least deserves the same damage as the Great Maul, as I think the 10 speed and superior 2h animations is a very good trade off for the 52 length alone. Giving the Long Maul lower damage and weight on top of that makes the Long Maul just much too shit.

Thats not what i meant, i asked someone to post a score that was good, and in my eyes a score in strategus that is good is above 2:1 KD, that may be big headed of me but when i play strat and i dont post such a  score i am disappointed with my score.But yes with a Long Maul those scores are rather good, but the fact is that those are the best scores you are gonna see from a long maul in strategus is rather bad, as the Long maul has been branded a 'support weapon' and support weapons are meant to be very good in strategus as everyone points out is rather underperforms.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: Ad1no on June 22, 2013, 08:30:12 pm
I love this mod.. but it has got worse instead of better over the years and it seems the vast majority of players agree... However the dev's have stated they do not care what we think.. They make changes to the game to fit their play styles and make the game fun for them and their friends.

Despite 2h being the best melee class polearms have experienced nerf after nerf. I've waisted 6 gens looming 2 items(halberd, long maul) that are now sub par. Even my +3 poleaxe has been nerfed tho I still use it.

I would love for them to un nerf everything. Even archery. But at least make shields take 0 slots to combat the ranged.
Title: Re: Buff Long Maul
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 24, 2013, 01:51:55 am
Yeah I'd love to see them un-nerf everything from the last 2 years as well