cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Michael on May 30, 2013, 10:10:02 pm

Title: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Michael on May 30, 2013, 10:10:02 pm: First of all, consider this as another troll post, I dont care.

Next, I have always hated archers, and still do. In native. I hate them more than backstabbing horsecocksuckers, maybe even more than 2h/polearm "heroes". They deal insane damage over the whole map, and if caught in melee range, they backpedal and kick or run in silly circles and spam. And when finally killed, the next rounds its 'fucking shield my old friend, without shield, you would be nothing fucking noob shield pussy.'

But still, in crpg I pity them.

As I have already explained, using a shield in crpg defeats its own purpose.
2h/polearm heroes are easier to fight with pure 1h than with 1h-shield.

So when I dont need the skill points for shield anyway, I thought I could try something else.

I tried the Riekling build. When my dedicated thrower (9 power throw, all wpf to throwing) couldnt kill a courser with a throwing lance and got 1-hit-killed by the rider afterwards, meh, upkeep was too expensive anyway.

Next build was power draw 4 archery 151.

With 4 power strike and 151 in 2h or pole, I can kill everyone in 2-3 hits.

I didnt expect something similiar but I was surprised: I did zero damage to 45+ armor and very little damage to 30 armor.

Okay, I got more power draw.
Went up to 7 power draw, and here are some pictures:

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/build0x34yhfa1j.png

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/overpoweredarctmvq163wl7.jpg

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/overpoweredarciuwo3qmnx2.jpg

http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/overpoweredarc6fstbaj7qe.jpg
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Kafein on May 30, 2013, 10:23:44 pm: Wait, are you really using unloomed bows and arrows ? You sir ain't an archer.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 30, 2013, 10:32:46 pm: Your image hosting site sucks assholes...slow as fuck to load (I'm on a network with 100mb/s down and 10mb/s up)

Also it's not clear, but you're saying archers are nerfed to shit? Everyone already knows that...
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Macropus on May 30, 2013, 10:35:26 pm: Buff unloomed bows and arrows, leave everything else as it is.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 30, 2013, 10:37:09 pm: How come all the guys you shot at have visible arrows in their head?
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Grumbs on May 30, 2013, 10:42:24 pm: archer WPF is 10x more valuable than melee WPF. Its kind of a scewed comparison. You don't need 120 melee, but 120 archer is subpar
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Haboe on May 30, 2013, 10:44:38 pm: Unloomed bow and arrows.
Cut damage arrows.

"i used a unloomed sickle but my enemy didn't die! Buff 1h please."
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Teeth on May 30, 2013, 11:10:33 pm: Nomad bow and Tatar arrows. 'My 25c cheapskate gear doesn't do much damage!'
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Tibe on May 30, 2013, 11:34:44 pm: Your shit aint even worth reading anymore.....
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: zottlmarsch on May 30, 2013, 11:54:28 pm: penis
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on May 31, 2013, 12:00:48 am: Quote from: TiberiusX on May 30, 2013, 11:34:44 pm
Your shit aint even worth reading anymore.....

You read it in the first place? :lol:

I always just scrolled down to read the rather humourous comments
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 31, 2013, 12:01:56 am: visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Vodner on May 31, 2013, 12:14:46 am: Unloomed archery is quite weak. I've played an unloomed archer/1h several times. If it wasn't weak, it would likely end up as the go-to class for new players, which would be bad.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Falka on May 31, 2013, 12:15:03 am: Quote from: TiberiusX on May 30, 2013, 11:34:44 pm
Your shit aint even worth reading anymore.....

Your shit aint even worth reading anymore..
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Prpavi on May 31, 2013, 01:01:37 am: Quote from: Michael on May 30, 2013, 10:10:02 pm

2h/polearm "heroes"

waiting for Panos...
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Haboe on May 31, 2013, 01:12:19 am: Quote from: Michael on May 30, 2013, 10:10:02 pm

Next, I have always hated archers, and still do. In native. I hate them more than backstabbing horsecocksuckers, maybe even more than 2h/polearm "heroes". They deal insane damage over the whole map, and if caught in melee range, they backpedal and kick or run in silly circles and spam. And when finally killed, the next rounds its 'fucking shield my old friend, without shield, you would be nothing fucking noob shield pussy.'

But still, in crpg I pity them.

As I have already explained, using a shield in crpg defeats its own purpose.
2h/polearm heroes are easier to fight with pure 1h than with 1h-shield.

Words spoken by a mediocre shielder.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Son Of Odin on May 31, 2013, 01:21:15 am: Just leaving this here ^^
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Tibe on May 31, 2013, 06:47:39 am: Quote from: Falka on May 31, 2013, 12:15:03 am
Your shit aint even worth reading anymore..
Im quite sure you will find gold from time to time.... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Winterly on May 31, 2013, 07:40:32 am: you give me a headache
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Vibe on May 31, 2013, 08:04:32 am: another michael post another minus
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Michael on May 31, 2013, 04:53:44 pm: Quote from: Haboe on May 31, 2013, 01:12:19 am
Words spoken by a mediocre shielder.

I am better than most of your clan mates. So when I am mediocre, what is your clan? Below average?
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Michael on May 31, 2013, 04:58:54 pm: Quote from: Haboe on May 30, 2013, 10:44:38 pm
Unloomed bow and arrows.
Cut damage arrows.

So what is your argument? crpg is a mod for no lifers with loomed stuff only or what are you trying to say?

Quote
"i used a unloomed sickle but my enemy didn't die! Buff 1h please."

I can use a unloomed sickle and kill most of your clanmates (including yourself).
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Michael on May 31, 2013, 05:07:53 pm: Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on May 30, 2013, 10:32:46 pm
Your image hosting site sucks assholes...slow as fuck to load (I'm on a network with 100mb/s down and 10mb/s up)

qq, I have 0,2 mb/s.

Quote
Also it's not clear, but you're saying archers are nerfed to shit? Everyone already knows that...

No, they dont. Read their comments.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Michael on May 31, 2013, 05:17:35 pm: Quote from: Teeth on May 30, 2013, 11:10:33 pm
Nomad bow and Tatar arrows. 'My 25c cheapskate gear doesn't do much damage!'

You are (like most people posting here, apparently) are not very familiar with game code.

Bows (unlike melee weapons) requirement is power draw, not strength.

You need to have 4 power draw more than the bows requirement to get the maximum out of the bow.
Its not only bow damage, its also accuracy.
So when you use a power draw 3 bow with a character power draw 4 its inaccurate. You can use it, but you cant aim.
Thats hard coded in the source of the originial mount and blade game.

That is the main issue here. The bows requirement is way too high.

At level 30 I cant get higher than 7 power draw, because cprg devs added a minimum of archery wpf needed.

In other words, the longbow or warbow is only usefull for people with power draw 10 and 200 archery. This is far beyond normal people can reach.

Whatever. crpg folks has the game balancers it deserves. I guess.

One more thing: Its not about that bows do little damage. Its about a level 30 archer does no damage at all.

It was said crpg is all about freedom of choice but where is the choice here: 2h, pole or pure 1h? Sure I can do that and be on top of the scoreboard all the time because the crpg players skill level in comparision to native competetive scene is really low, but where is here a choice and what has this to do with battle when its mostly melee spam?

But still, people complain about 5 level 35 archers on a 100 players, ridiculous.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Gurnisson on May 31, 2013, 05:19:56 pm: Quote from: Michael on May 31, 2013, 05:17:35 pm
At level 30 I cant get higher than 7 power draw, because cprg devs added a minimum of archery wpf needed.

You can get up to 10 PD at level 30
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Panos on May 31, 2013, 05:20:58 pm: Quote from: Prpavi on May 31, 2013, 01:01:37 am
waiting for Panos...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Michael on May 31, 2013, 05:27:41 pm: Quote from: Gurnisson on May 31, 2013, 05:19:56 pm
You can get up to 10 PD at level 30

Sure. But then I have not a single point in melee and get a red message saying my archery is too low which is an understatement. I cant aim for a millisecond. Its like a native melee char using a bow. Well, its worse actually.

Another problem: 10 power draw means 30 strength. So I have 2 athletics, 0 wpf in melee and 0 power strike. What the fuck I am supposed to do with such a character? Its useless in ranged, and useless in melee.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Bobthehero on June 01, 2013, 08:50:09 am: Whistle for Atheism
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: OttomanSniper on June 03, 2013, 05:55:31 pm: i was say "make archer limit to the servers but never use nerf card" but they are not listen me. now archery is really bad and still too many archer in the servers. no idea, no brain.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Jarold on June 05, 2013, 02:21:12 am: I'll just leave this here...

(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Stormcrow on June 05, 2013, 03:08:46 am: solution is simple, dont play archery. Here are the choices

play 2h and hit someone in 50 armor twice to kill them, takes 2-5 seconds

Or shoot someone in 50 armor 5-6 times while not being able to kick, block, jump or move. Takes about 35 secs providing you hit them every time.

Choice is clear, only morons play archer builds
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Stormcrow on June 05, 2013, 04:07:47 am: I just shot shana 9 times with mw horn bow, mw bodkins and 6 pd and she didnt die. She was only wearing black lamellar and a straw hat. Ran out of arrows before I could kill her. So may have previously under exaggerated the weakness of archery, my mistake.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Kafein on June 05, 2013, 12:54:06 pm: Quote from: Stormcrow on June 05, 2013, 04:07:47 am
mw horn bow

You would need more hits with a sickle and 6 PS, just saying.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: peter_afca7 on June 05, 2013, 01:24:19 pm: visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Stormcrow on June 05, 2013, 03:35:46 pm: Um a sickle would cost you 47 gold, while mw horn bow and mw bodkins cost 13, 000 gold and 6 loom points. A theoretical value of 2.4 million gold.

For 5 round the max upkeep for the sickle would be 15 gold. For horn bow and bodkins its around 1000g.

You tell me what the better value is.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Kafein on June 06, 2013, 06:36:50 pm: Quote from: Stormcrow on June 05, 2013, 03:35:46 pm
Um a sickle would cost you 47 gold, while mw horn bow and mw bodkins cost 13, 000 gold and 6 loom points. A theoretical value of 2.4 million gold.

For 5 round the max upkeep for the sickle would be 15 gold. For horn bow and bodkins its around 1000g.

You tell me what the better value is.

MW sickle if you want

My point is, why not compare the strongest melee weapons with the strongest bows on a large sample size instead of taking apart one outlier event and start to qq over it. Damage comparisons are completely meaningless anyway, as one can't block arrows.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: HoboJoe on June 06, 2013, 09:29:47 pm: Quote from: Kafein on June 06, 2013, 06:36:50 pm
MW sickle if you want
23C OF DOOM! It's like getting cut open with a spoon!
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Stormcrow on June 09, 2013, 05:18:12 am: Shield
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Sellka on June 09, 2013, 10:32:19 pm: I use to play archery three years ago, back when I could actually hit things for a dam. the way archery is now, you can't support your allies in combat, it all required timing and lots of practice. I know back then I could build a 18 18 and actually hit something I was aiming at, and the damage with a un loomed longbow was good enough where you could kill something with 2-4 hits with bodkins. Now I see a crossbow, reload faster then a longbow draw an arrow, and do less damage then the crossbow. all I can look at here is having the longbow Buffed, the rest can stay the same, since hornbows etc seem to have better accuracy then the longbow for some reason.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Algarn on June 10, 2013, 01:50:20 am: I was longbowman until the level 33, I was acurate , fast , and powerful , at melee too ... Why did I stopped ? Because of upkeeps and shitty scores.

Archery is balanced, but repairs are high (I saw stats , I lost 39 k a day), and you need looms to be an archer. You never have valour as archer, even if you are a fucking sniper, a headshot gives you 2 points I think ... Long-range shot are almost impossible , and we have a shitty score for it ... So, the wayout is :

-buff unloomed stuff and nerf loomed stuff (nohing will change for loomed archers , and archery will be more easy for new players)
-reduce prices for fuck sake ... Archery and throwing were cheapest things on the battlefield, in this game , a longbow cost MORE than the best 1 hander ...
-Change the scoring system please ... I saw guys in siege with 0/19 to have better scores than me with 8/3 ... you don't believe me , so , go on EU 2 ...

I don't believe in "ARCHERY IS NERFED AS FUCK !!" ... Michael, are you mad ? You use a nomad bow without looms and without bodkins , so , even with a lot of PD , you can't make a shit with a ligh bow. Archery is pretty balanced in a fight, even if that does require practice. Only those 3 things are pain. Don't expect to 1 shot a guy with a light bow, before QQ about archery, try bows like Rus , or longbow, and then , you will really feel the difference...
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Michael on June 10, 2013, 06:34:17 pm: Quote from: Kafein on June 05, 2013, 12:54:06 pm
You would need more hits with a sickle and 6 PS, just saying.

This was a missunderstanding. On my side. I was thinking he was talking about the native Rhodok (military) sickle. I didnt even know there is some cheap crap called sickle you can buy in the crpg shop.
I did not expect crpg players to be smart, but still, I did not expect anyone to be stupid enough wanting to compare a decent bow (in my opinion the nomad bow is the best bow for native competetive play) with some useless crap.

Anyhow, I am absofuckinglutely open for challenges. Nditions (native duel server), swadian infantery, default sword, best shield (heavy heater). Be it Mercs, Deserters or some other crpg-hero: tell me when you are ready, I was born ready.
Title: Re: Another fucking troll post- this time: on archery
Post by: Michael on June 10, 2013, 06:41:48 pm: Quote from: Stormcrow on June 05, 2013, 03:08:46 am
solution is simple, dont play archery. Here are the choices

play 2h and hit someone in 50 armor twice to kill them, takes 2-5 seconds

Depends on opponent, but most crpg players can be killed faster.

Quote
Or shoot someone in 50 armor 5-6 times while not being able to kick, block, jump or move. Takes about 35 secs providing you hit them every time.

Choice is clear, only morons play archer builds

That is my argument. Crpg devs should write something like: what is crpg? to sum it up: if you dont care about night/fog/ rain 24/7, great mod for people who love to hide in heavy armor and spam 2h, pole or pure 1h - all others play something else.