cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: rufio on May 22, 2013, 03:41:04 pm

Title: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 22, 2013, 03:41:04 pm
quite an unneeded and stupid new mechanic.  :mad:
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Latrinenkobold on May 22, 2013, 03:43:04 pm
Well it´s funny as long you don´t get nudged yourself :D

Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 03:44:37 pm
Play EU_2, nobody nudges there afaik (nudging enemies anyway).
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: okiN on May 22, 2013, 03:45:05 pm
What is this nudging people keep talking about?
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Gurnisson on May 22, 2013, 03:45:21 pm
Play EU_2

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Moncho on May 22, 2013, 03:46:06 pm
What is this nudging people keep talking about?
A new way for 1h no shield characters to disable opponents for a little bit

http://forum.meleegaming.com/guides/nudge-guide/msg786559/#msg786559
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 03:49:18 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Considering that the alternative is play have mass gay gank orgy on EU_1, I think you mixed up somewhere :D
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Tzar on May 22, 2013, 03:52:22 pm
Think its fine. Now we just need nugde for 2h´s pole´s and shield.

Also a sprint an overall speed up on all 4 attack directions on all weapons would be awesome  :lol:

The faster and intense gameplay the better
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 22, 2013, 03:53:27 pm
I do think its cool, but its still just a mobile kick, and people have been anti-kicks for forever. When people get over the newness of it they will see its just a dumb gimmick. IMO

They give it to shielder/1 hand class as well which is barmy. The last guys who need a disable are shielders. Also, its a buff for all ranged who use 1 hand
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: okiN on May 22, 2013, 03:54:32 pm
A new way for 1h no shield characters to disable opponents for a little bit

http://forum.meleegaming.com/guides/nudge-guide/msg786559/#msg786559

Mite b cool. How about shield bashes?
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 22, 2013, 03:55:29 pm
Shield bash is probably the main reason to add this anyway, since you can't kick with a shield. Just more buffs for shielders
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Teeth on May 22, 2013, 03:58:07 pm
Play EU_2, nobody nudges there afaik (nudging enemies anyway).
I was on EU_2 today and I tore shit up as a full plate nudge abusing mace user.

I think nudges are not too OP, people just don't know how to deal with them yet. On siege they will soon be a fucking plague though, on siege 1h no shield does not require a buff at all.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: okiN on May 22, 2013, 03:58:48 pm
Shield bash is probably the main reason to add this anyway, since you can't kick with a shield. Just more buffs for shielders

Buffs for shielders? But you can only nudge without a shield.

Also, I just tested it on the duel server and it seems when you nudge, it sheaths your weapon. What's the point of that?
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Teeth on May 22, 2013, 03:59:17 pm
Buffs for shielders? But you can only nudge without a shield.

Also, I just tested it on the duel server and it seems when you nudge, it sheaths your weapon. What's the point of that?
That is because of your own key bindings.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: okiN on May 22, 2013, 04:00:34 pm
Oh right, I forgot there even was a sheath key. :lol:
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 22, 2013, 04:05:34 pm
Buffs for shielders? But you can only nudge without a shield.

Also, I just tested it on the duel server and it seems when you nudge, it sheaths your weapon. What's the point of that?

I mean 1 handers who have their shield broken, or when they put it away against axes or if they outnumber someone.

- me all you want. Running in and pressing a button to bypass all the skills in the game is the complete opposite of game depth. Its a shortcut rather than an actual skill. Its really badly implemented too, just run in and press a button and you or team mates get free hits.

Might sound negative, and I do appreciate new additions and time put into improving the game. Just don't agree with this particular direction for the game
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 04:18:09 pm
I mean 1 handers who have their shield broken, or when they put it away against axes or if they outnumber someone.

- me all you want. Running in and pressing a button to bypass all the skills in the game is the complete opposite of game depth. Its a shortcut rather than an actual skill. Its really badly implemented too, just run in and press a button and you or team mates get free hits.

Might sound negative, and I do appreciate new additions and time put into improving the game. Just don't agree with this particular direction for the game

You know, attacking with a longer weapon than your enemy is also "running and pressing a button". In this thread you managed to show more ignorance about game mechanics (who doesn't know shielders can kick ? Someone that never played with a shield ?) than actual arguments. Shielders with their low reach and speed are the easiest to nudge. Also they are "the last guys that need a disable", why ? They don't even have nudges right now. The only ones that have them are pseudo-2h with crappy weapons aka 1h no shield.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 22, 2013, 04:19:13 pm
I was on EU_2 today and I tore shit up as a full plate nudge abusing mace user.

I think nudges are not too OP, people just don't know how to deal with them yet. On siege they will soon be a fucking plague though, on siege 1h no shield does not require a buff at all.

why dous this nudge need to be implemented? why do 1 handers need a buff? is it implemented for the pure 1 hander hipsters? who already have best turnrate ingame? this buffs all xbowers and archers to in melee, and imo its silly op.  handle it? deal with it? only way to do that is have more athletics than the other person. broken as hell this stuff.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Haboe on May 22, 2013, 04:27:41 pm
I love the nudge :P

Seems a bit hard to hit a guy thats being nudged though, anyone noticed? (I use the powernudge a lot, and the "nudged" gets stunned for a full second it seems. Yet rarely anyone is able to hit them.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 22, 2013, 04:30:40 pm
You know, attacking with a longer weapon than your enemy is also "running and pressing a button". In this thread you managed to show more ignorance about game mechanics (who doesn't know shielders can kick ? Someone that never played with a shield ?) than actual arguments. Shielders with their low reach and speed are the easiest to nudge. Also they are "the last guys that need a disable", why ? They don't even have nudges right now. The only ones that have them are pseudo-2h with crappy weapons aka 1h no shield.

Attacking with a long weapon has numerous counters. Blocking, dodging, timing. You can outplay an opponent to beat him. The closest thing to this is like having an unblockable short range swing. You don't outplay anyone with these disables. Players with shields equipped shouldn't have nudges because they already have the best defence in the whole game. They don't need anything extra added to their kit. They have huge forcefields against all attack directions in a large angle infront and defence against ranged. About kicking with a shield, i'm probably thinking turtlers with the shield up (and you could manual block while kicking before).

So you got 1 hand damage buffs across the board recently. Got weight buffs (less weapon stun). Kicking against shielders was made weaker over several patches. Random knockdown while kicking introduced to increase risk (chamber my ass). And now they add some new kick thats only for when shielders lose their shield or put it away? I swear Paul is on a path to make everyone use 1 hand and shield with this game.

Then they will let everyone do a nudge? Battle of the button pressers? It is not skillful to land a nudge
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: BlueKnight on May 22, 2013, 04:33:39 pm
why dous this nudge need to be implemented? why do 1 handers need a buff? is it implemented for the pure 1 hander hipsters? who already have best turnrate ingame? this buffs all xbowers and archers to in melee, and imo its silly op.  handle it? deal with it? only way to do that is have more athletics than the other person. broken as hell this stuff.

Rufio, it's not a direct buff, it's a mechanic which is supposed to increase the variety in game and to make combat more sophisticated. Obviously it gives a small advantage to the class receiving this mechanic but I believe it wasn't meant to balance classes but to make game more enjoyable and as sb said it earlier, some other classes might also get new mechanics which is a great news imho.

Also, after more people start using it, it is going to be abused terribly in the end. I suggested to lower it's significance. I'm afraid in it's current state, nudge will soon be very annoying. Not to mention that left-hand push can stop&stun enemy in the middle of fighting... Should be blockable only with shield and depend on str and gauntlets of attacker and armour of defender. It should work like a punch, interrupting enemy, opening his block and leaving him without any stun. It's just a punch after all...

I was on EU_2 today and I tore shit up as a full plate nudge abusing mace user.
And this is what I'm talking about...
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 04:48:13 pm
Attacking with a long weapon has numerous counters. Blocking, dodging, timing.

Blocking is not a counter, dodging can only mean dodging backwards in which case it doesn't give the short weapon any advantage either, timing is a word like giraffe and can help you about as much as a giraffe.

Then they will let everyone do a nudge? Battle of the button pressers? It is not skillful to land a nudge

You can outplay an opponent to beat him. The closest thing to this is like having an unblockable short range swing. You don't outplay anyone with these disables.

You do. Having someone exactly in front of you at facehug range is only possible if your enemy lets you do it. Let people learn to defend against nudges and then we'll see if they are so bad.

Players with shields equipped shouldn't have nudges because they already have the best defence in the whole game. They don't need anything extra added to their kit. They have huge forcefields against all attack directions in a large angle infront and defence against ranged. About kicking with a shield, i'm probably thinking turtlers with the shield up (and you could manual block while kicking before).

So you got 1 hand damage buffs across the board recently. Got weight buffs (less weapon stun). Kicking against shielders was made weaker over several patches. Random knockdown while kicking introduced to increase risk. And now they add some new kick thats only for when shielders lose their shield or put it away? I swear Paul is on a path to make everyone use 1 hand and shield with this game.

The melee blocking angle of shielders is narrower than that of manual blocks. With manual blocks, if your block physically hits the weapon before your body, it is blocked. Shields work by relative positionning. 1h damage buffs were pretty far from across the board. They essentially made 1h weapons that sucked hard suck a little less. Kicking was made stronger because unless you are kicking when you shouldn't you don't need to block when you kick, and the range was increased. The knockdown that you get when you kick is not random at all, it happens because your opponent counterkicked you at the right moment (and that is very difficult to pull off), way to not know what you are talking about.


I'm not per se lobbying pro nudges but you have the worst argumentation ever.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 22, 2013, 04:50:16 pm
Blocking is not a counter,

Not even going to bother.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: San on May 22, 2013, 04:52:48 pm
Surprisingly, the buffs aren't as clear-cut as you may believe. The 1h slot change also makes it better for hybrid ranged in melee, especially against agi shielders. The kick change made it easier for shielders to kick other shielders. Shielders are by far the easiest to nudge not including tincans. Certain playing styles might find it more difficult.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Paul on May 22, 2013, 04:59:45 pm
Actually I'm thinking about an RSP-like system that allows to counter nudges once I made it non-instantaneous and every weapontype has access to it. A bit like chamberkick, it would work in a way that if someone connects a quicknudge while the other does a shove anim, it would punish the quicknudger instead.  Attack+nudge would be punished by quicknudge and shove by attack+nudge. Oh well, still thinking about it but it might give a way to counter when one can anticipate the opponents move.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Idzo on May 22, 2013, 05:00:16 pm
Nice buff for swashbucklers.

Lets see how long does it take before it get's aboosed :D
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Jarlek on May 22, 2013, 05:02:10 pm
There's one reason I love nudges and don't mind them being powerful: Nudging is an offensive playstyle that works very well against high STR backpedalers that kicks every time you get close. Nudging is the counter to the lamest melee playstyle.

I'd rather have W-key hero nudge spammers than W-key hero kick spammers.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 22, 2013, 05:03:25 pm
Actually I'm thinking about an RSP-like system that allows to counter nudges once I made it non-instantaneous and every weapontype has access to it. A bit like chamberkick, it would work in a way that if someone connects a quicknudge while the other does a shove anim, it would punish the quicknudger instead.  Attack+nudge would be punished by quicknudge and shove by attack+nudge. Oh well, still thinking about it but it might give a way to counter when one can anticipate the opponents move.

I'm sure it will be as successful as chamber kick :P
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: BlueKnight on May 22, 2013, 05:16:53 pm
Actually I'm thinking about an RSP-like system that allows to counter nudges once I made it non-instantaneous and every weapontype has access to it. A bit like chamberkick, it would work in a way that if someone connects a quicknudge while the other does a shove anim, it would punish the quicknudger instead.  Attack+nudge would be punished by quicknudge and shove by attack+nudge. Oh well, still thinking about it but it might give a way to counter when one can anticipate the opponents move.

If you make this "punching" fast, barely anybody will be able to counter it, on the other hand if you make it slow so people can counter it, it might become less useful because it will be too hard to perform safely. You have to be really careful with choice of time-from-v-to-hit. It may not be easy. Also ping matters a lot in those quick-reaction things.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Tibe on May 22, 2013, 05:18:15 pm
Somehow I get the feeling it was specifically made so that 1h would be a more viable duelingweapon vs 2h. In the middle of a battleclusterfuck its not so useful. Being a shieldless 1h on the field with bunch of player beating the shit out of eachother in a small area is like bringing a butterknife to an all-out gunfight. It starts to get useful once the clusterfuckphase of the battle is over and you get more mano a mano action.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Duster on May 22, 2013, 05:18:34 pm
As far as I've seen, the nudge is one of the easiest things to see coming and counter so far, because the 1her has to be pushing, and he has to get closer than any weapon's swing. A simple sidestep, jump, kick, hell even a swing can punish the 1h no shield nudger. The ones complaining are the same old 2h and polearm lobbyists from forever, if they had it their way all 2h would have a chance to crushthrough and knockdown because ooh they're manual blocking and that's so hard and ooh they dont have protection from ranged because they minmax their build with no shield skill. Everyone will learn how to deal with the nudge in time, just like the kicks. Or they won't and they'll just die to about 10% of the player base.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 05:19:46 pm
Not even going to bother.

You don't harm anyone when blocking.

If blocking is a counter to attacks then shields are a counter to horse archers. Might as well use "christmas tree" as a word for that kind of "counter" and keep counter for the effective and meaningful thing. Blocking is a christmas tree to attacks and shields are christmas trees against horse archers.

Btw aren't kicks a decent counter to current nudges ?
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: BlueKnight on May 22, 2013, 05:23:32 pm
You don't harm anyone when blocking.

If blocking is a counter to attacks then shields are a counter to horse archers. Might as well use "christmas tree" as a word for that kind of "counter" and keep counter for the effective and meaningful thing. Blocking is a christmas tree to attacks and shields are christmas trees against horse archers.

Btw aren't kicks a decent counter to current nudges ?
Nudge of nudger cancels kick of kicker. In some cases even knocks down a kicker...
                            ^                                                               ^
              Checked it myself.                    Paul said it can do eet under some circumstances if I remember properly.

Kicks don't prevent nudges. By kicking you expose yourself, so why would a 1h-no-shield want to nudge an enemy if he can just wait for enemy to expose himself. The point of fighting is not to nudge or kick the enemy but to kill him wither by reacting better or outsmarting him (like with chamber-kicking when you are knocked down).
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Jarlek on May 22, 2013, 05:31:53 pm
Nudge of nudger cancels kick of kicker. In some cases even knocks down a kicker...
                            ^                                                               ^
              Checked it myself.                    Paul said it can do eet under some circumstances if I remember properly.
I confirm that you can knock down kickers with a nudge (attack+nudge, IIRC). Reason 1 why I love nudges.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 22, 2013, 05:53:52 pm
so ye, i still have to test it more and play it more,sofar i think nudging kills the whole game, its basicly giving people a free disable wich is increddibly eazy to pull off, and not really punishable like with the kick, where u get locked in animation, wich they kinda ruined to when giving the kick a silly cone hitreach oh you took away the block? oh yeah gj. so guys, im calling it now, new meta, everybody with 1 handers and xbows and good athletics. will kill with ranged and will dominate in melee, because of this nudge. lets see what eu1 will look like in a week and if there will be any shielders left on foot.

 oh and paul, id like to hear from you how often u see kicks get counterkicked/chambered, and then elaborate more about this chamber nudging youre thinking about.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 05:58:51 pm
oh and paul, id like to hear from you how often u see kicks get counterkicked/chambered, and then elaborate more about this chamber nudging youre thinking about.

Tbh I never thought of how useful the counterkick is when you are knocked down and your enemy goes for a kick triple hit. At least in that situation counterkicking seems doable. Otherwise, the timing is so tight and your reaction has to be so fast, it's not really possible.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 22, 2013, 06:09:36 pm
indeed if your knocked down you can spam kick to atleast not get kicked on the rise, but thats my point, personally i hardly see counter kicks, and have only rarely pulled them off myself, this whole counter nudge is all nice and well in theory , but not practical at all. but hey , thread is up and we will see how things turn out, i feel a plague of 1 handers waving their fist and weapon in an eternal dance of nudge spams and left swing repeaters.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 06:14:26 pm
Being good at kicking has more to do with what your char and your enemy has in his hands than anything related to the player IMO.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 22, 2013, 06:19:47 pm
its indeed about playstyle, i know its eazier for an S key hero to lure somone into a kick specially now that kicks have a stupid big hit cone, but im talking about real play here, where offensiveness is a must. it still takes skill to time and land kicks without putting yourself in a stupid position. and hey kafein i wouldnt try kicking tomuch either if i was you , because being locked in one place isnt a good position for a naked guy.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Akynos on May 22, 2013, 06:29:29 pm
There's one reason I love nudges and don't mind them being powerful: Nudging is an offensive playstyle that works very well against high STR backpedalers that kicks every time you get close. Nudging is the counter to the lamest melee playstyle.



Why do I feel you're pointing at me Jarlek? :D


As for the nudge itself, after having a sesh with Zlisch, I didn't feel that it was overpowered, mostly because it seemd tough to land a hit with the sword even if the nudge did hit. However, as it is the beginning, I do not know if it will turn towards abuse or if it will simply be a rewarding yet dangerous manoeuver reserved to skillful players. I guess time will tell.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: wanteds on May 22, 2013, 06:40:01 pm
Gonna have to "-" you on this one Rufio, nudge is longer implemented on dtv and it was lots of fun when you could nudge teammates into hordes of enemies or off a cliff/roof top. Its still fun tho you can't nudge teammates anymore, too much QQ about it.

*Assuming this is the same kind of nudge on dtv, haven't checked yet.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: dreadnok on May 22, 2013, 06:47:15 pm
And no shield bash. Just absurd
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 07:22:24 pm
its indeed about playstyle, i know its eazier for an S key hero to lure somone into a kick specially now that kicks have a stupid big hit cone, but im talking about real play here, where offensiveness is a must. it still takes skill to time and land kicks without putting yourself in a stupid position. and hey kafein i wouldnt try kicking tomuch either if i was you , because being locked in one place isnt a good position for a naked guy.
(click to show/hide)

Compared to other 1h, I kick a lot even when it's not obvious (obvious kicks happen all the time in siege). Not as much as that Deserter_Robb_Stark fellow though, but I haven't seen him in a while. Most 1h are required to go into kick range to attack and even much closer than that if they don't want to be easily dodged, defending against kicks or not isn't a choice for these guys. Fact is they aren't that much harder to kick a second time after the first one. All this in siege though.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 22, 2013, 07:29:05 pm
.also this thread seems to have the same little downvote gang again as usuall. ah well ive stated my oppinion

here then, the explanation for the minus I gave you:

people generally qq that devs do nothing for the mod. Then someone comes up with new fighting mechanic stuff and you make a thread with this content: "quite an unneeded and stupid new mechanic." Not an opinion, not an explanation why you think so, not a suggestion about what to do, nothing.

I generally like it when they try out new stuff, even if it's horrible at first. (which I don't think nudge is)


once I made it non-instantaneous and every weapontype has access to it.

sounds good.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Tydeus on May 22, 2013, 07:48:46 pm
The ones complaining are the same old 2h and polearm lobbyists from forever, if they had it their way all 2h would have a chance to crushthrough and knockdown because ooh they're manual blocking and that's so hard and ooh they dont have protection from ranged because they minmax their build with no shield skill.
Just thought this deserved quoting.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 07:51:14 pm
Well honestly I don't see why a 2h or pole guy that doesn't want a shield should get shield skill. Having a shield on your back that you draw when you need it is not very practical.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Jarlek on May 22, 2013, 08:12:54 pm
Why do I feel you're pointing at me Jarlek? :D
Wasn't thinking of you specifically. Too many who plays like that sadly. Also, aren't you 1h/shield now? (although still tincan :P

Seriously though, this (and the upcoming ones for 2h/pole/shields) will be a nice buff to people that actually charge instead of standing with long weapons at their max reach, wanking off with stabs (2h/pikes/hoplites) or right swings (polearms) while never actually going into the range of being hit themselves.

Nudging and knocking down people that kick feels so good too. Rufio called me a bad kicker (true, I am), and even I had no problem landing kicks, so making the S-key heroes suffer is a nice improvement.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Akynos on May 22, 2013, 08:33:51 pm
I hardly see any str backpeddling bitches beyond myself, so I couldn't see who else you could target ;)

Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Tibe on May 22, 2013, 08:45:19 pm
El Supreme, Grellenort, Bonk, me(when i havent recently retired), Oldgeezer etc....
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Berserkadin on May 22, 2013, 08:50:29 pm
Other classes got buffed? Fucking go get them 2h heroes.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Akynos on May 22, 2013, 09:25:14 pm
El Supreme, Grellenort, Bonk, me(when i havent recently retired), Oldgeezer etc....

None of them are S-whores like me !
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Ragni_Bross on May 22, 2013, 09:44:22 pm
Here's an idea.

Why not remove the bullshit kick and turn the nudge into a shield-bash? That'd make great sense really. It does not make sense that 1h's without shields are better at bashing than the shielders are.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 22, 2013, 10:11:58 pm
Lol, if we balanced with realism the game would be very different. Remove kick and make shielders even more of a cheese class? Nah
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Haboe on May 22, 2013, 11:21:30 pm
Why not give the nudge to fists? I dare you to come with arguments why that would make fisting OP  :idea:
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 23, 2013, 12:38:35 am
here then, the explanation for the minus I gave you:

people generally qq that devs do nothing for the mod. Then someone comes up with new fighting mechanic stuff and you make a thread with this content: "quite an unneeded and stupid new mechanic." Not an opinion, not an explanation why you think so, not a suggestion about what to do, nothing.

I generally like it when they try out new stuff, even if it's horrible at first. (which I don't think nudge is)


sounds good.

if u read thread, u will see the explenations arrise, so your argument is invalid. and you dont find it horrible because as an 8 athletics 2hander nudge isnt a big problem for you, unless you get cornered, try playing a shielder brah, and i wasnt really talking about the Official posts votes, more of the later constant downvotes from the same fairyboygang, aka zlish, jarlek, unther ect. but hey careface.
Just thought this deserved quoting.

im lvl 35 with 4 shieldskill, and i dont get why people would max out a pure 1hander build, and then whine about reach and needing buff, onehanders have had alot of love lately and are ballanced if not op in some situations: close quarters tight areas. but hey like i said a week or more so we will see how this mechanic really affect the crpg experience. i think you wont even be able to fight 2vs1 enymore because of this nudge. great fun
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 23, 2013, 12:53:11 am
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Jarlek on May 23, 2013, 04:02:29 am

if u read thread, u will see the explenations arrise, so your argument is invalid. and you dont find it horrible because as an 8 athletics 2hander nudge isnt a big problem for you, unless you get cornered, try playing a shielder brah, and i wasnt really talking about the Official posts votes, more of the later constant downvotes from the same fairyboygang, aka zlish, jarlek, unther ect. but hey careface.
Says he doesn't care about the minuses.
Writes about them in every post.

GG
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: LordLargos on May 23, 2013, 04:40:04 am
First of all what the hell is grumbs saying, second of all gimmie shield bash!
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: isatis on May 23, 2013, 04:58:50 am
Just need to chamber nudge like chamber kick

true skill has to be rewarded
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Sparvico on May 23, 2013, 08:25:16 am

and i dont get why people would max out a pure 1hander build, and then whine about reach and needing buff, onehanders have had alot of love lately and are ballanced if not op in some situations: close quarters tight areas. but hey like i said a week or more so we will see how this mechanic really affect the crpg experience. i think you wont even be able to fight 2vs1 enymore because of this nudge. great fun


1. Lolstab to all of that.
2. All the people whining in this thread are 2 handers. In fact I cannot recall a time I have seen a 1 hander whine about needing a reach buff.
3. The only time that I get nudged is when I let them nudge me (i.e. facehug them). Move your goddamn feet a bit more and you'll be fine.

As a side note, manual blocking is not difficult. I have never seen someone with a decent computer and stable internet not eventually learn how to manually block really well. In fact when I started playing cRPG I had more trouble learning when to swing and when to block as a shielder (because everyone swung their longsword like it was as light as a goddamn butter knife) then I ever did with manual blocking. Not saying that I'm a master blocker, simply saying I've never really understood why certain 2handers feel their manual blocking makes them superior. Pressing 2 keys or moving your mouse in a certain direction while pressing one key is not that impressive people.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 23, 2013, 08:39:49 am
1. Lolstab to all of that.
2. All the people whining in this thread are 2 handers. In fact I cannot recall a time I have seen a 1 hander whine about needing a reach buff.
3. The only time that I get nudged is when I let them nudge me (i.e. facehug them). Move your goddamn feet a bit more and you'll be fine.

As a side note, manual blocking is not difficult. I have never seen someone with a decent computer and stable internet not eventually learn how to manually block really well. In fact when I started playing cRPG I had more trouble learning when to swing and when to block as a shielder (because everyone swung their longsword like it was as light as a goddamn butter knife) then I ever did with manual blocking. Not saying that I'm a master blocker, simply saying I've never really understood why certain 2handers feel their manual blocking makes them superior. Pressing 2 keys or moving your mouse in a certain direction while pressing one key is not that impressive people.

plz read better i never said 1 handers wanted more reach, second of all, you seem to still be fairly new to crpg no need to tell people how to play,  we dont care about your oppinion about manual blocking this isnt the thread for that, third of all this post was made from a shielders perspective, the nudge takes away the whole usefullness of a shielder in melee combat, havent even played on my main since nudge implemented but i dont think it will be tomuch trouble on that char.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: owens on May 23, 2013, 08:57:48 am
nudge is brutal against a hoplite.

Hoplites rely on waiting for an opening when someone nudges while facehugging nothing can be done in defence.


On the otherhand 1H was terribly underpowered and this buff is in good spirit
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Berserkadin on May 23, 2013, 11:34:19 am
well hoplites got a counter then, 1h without shield.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: owens on May 23, 2013, 12:26:44 pm
Hoplites didn't need another counter.

Only class that relies on teamwork i think its enough of a weakness in cRPG.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Everkistus on May 23, 2013, 12:30:51 pm
Hoplites didn't need another counter.

Only class that relies on teamwork i think its enough of a weakness in cRPG.
Have you noticed how strong hoplites are nowadays?
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: owens on May 23, 2013, 12:38:28 pm
^Ive noticed people using them. I have been playing hoplite in native for the last 2 months exclusively and spend %30 of my cRPG time as hoplite.

A hoplite will always lose 1v1 if the players have similar skill. I am not threatened by hoplites unless there is 3 or more. 2 holites should not be a problem for any decent player with any athletics.

Hoplites are the slowest moving on the battlefield, 1 attack direction, lowered damage, easily stunned, easily chambered and require a compromised build.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 23, 2013, 06:02:57 pm

if u read thread, u will see the explenations arrise, so your argument is invalid. and you dont find it horrible because as an 8 athletics 2hander nudge isnt a big problem for you, unless you get cornered, try playing a shielder brah,

I voted before the responses.

I used nudge sometimes with my shielder (putting the shield away) against other shielders who constantly hold their shield up, good fun. :)
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Tibe on May 23, 2013, 09:17:38 pm
Its for 1vs1 purposes. Being a shieldless 1h cunt in the middle of battle turns you into dogmeat.
But its OP as hell tbh in 1v1. Played in EU3. Only 10% of the time I fucked up when nudging and I wasnt even trying very hard. Just randomly swinged a punch at the opponent when the cooldown was over.

But than again, the main guys fearing it were 2h lolstabbers who lacked kickingskills. So I dunno. Kinda neutral here. Nerf it, dont care, dont nerf it, still dont care. It felt beatable yet it was still pretty easy to execute. I dunno rufio. I was swinging my Flamberge when nudge was exsistant and I did pretty good. Just loads of lame highdamage "s"key heroismswings did the trick for me.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Sparvico on May 23, 2013, 09:57:40 pm
plz read better i never said 1 handers wanted more reach, second of all, you seem to still be fairly new to crpg no need to tell people how to play,  we dont care about your oppinion about manual blocking this isnt the thread for that, third of all this post was made from a shielders perspective, the nudge takes away the whole usefullness of a shielder in melee combat, havent even played on my main since nudge implemented but i dont think it will be tomuch trouble on that char.

and i dont get why people would max out a pure 1hander build, and then whine about reach and needing buff, onehanders have had alot of love lately and are ballanced if not op in some situations: close quarters tight areas. but hey like i said a week or more so we will see how this mechanic really affect the crpg experience. i think you wont even be able to fight 2vs1 enymore because of this nudge. great fun

Can you read?

Also, I am a shielder and, as I said before, I only get nudged if I face-hug the enemy. You don't need to face-hug to be effective in melee.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 24, 2013, 02:07:13 am
experience real group play naab.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Sultan Eren on May 24, 2013, 02:42:32 am
I love nudges.
"Stunning feature"

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Ronin on May 24, 2013, 10:33:08 am
The only class should be whining now is hoplites, my friend said it was so easy for hoplites to get beaten by a 1h-no shield class that it isn't even funny. Yet all I see in this thread is 2h/pole drama.

Seriously guys, you should have been lived in Ancient greece. You would have been better tragedians than Sophocles.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 24, 2013, 11:07:41 am
cunt, ive been saying im whining from a shielders perspective in like 3 posts now.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: dontgothere on May 24, 2013, 11:21:08 am
ADD E HONDAS SLAP ATTACK
OH AND CHUN LIS SPINKICK
I MEAN SINCE WERE JUST ADDING RANDOM STUFF FROM OTHER GAMES NOW INSTEAD OF FIXING BUGS OR WORKING ON BALANCING CORE MECHANICS OR ADDING CONTENT
OK THANKS HAVE A GREAT DAY
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on May 24, 2013, 03:29:01 pm
sry rufio but im playing a lot recently on my hoplite and all the time a 1h no shield came close to me i jumped away because you cant get nudged while jumping and then im stabbing them in their tiny face or i just kick them nth easier than that nudge is by far not op even though im fighting my counter
so its complete bullshit that nudges are op
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Sparvico on May 24, 2013, 03:36:08 pm
sry rufio but im playing a lot recently on my hoplite and all the time a 1h no shield came close to me i jumped away because you cant get nudged while jumping and then im stabbing them in their tiny face or i just kick them nth easier than that nudge is by far not op even though im fighting my counter
so its complete bullshit that nudges are op
Essentially what I've been saying since my first post in this reason forsaken thread. JUST DON'T FACE-HUG LIKE A CUNT AND YOU'LL BE FINE!

Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Spanish on May 24, 2013, 08:29:46 pm
Throwers deserve to nudge people that would be hilarious and OP but fucking hilarious
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 25, 2013, 01:37:19 am
Essentially what I've been saying since my first post in this reason forsaken thread. JUST DON'T FACE-HUG LIKE A CUNT AND YOU'LL BE FINE!
the times i got nudge wasnt facehugging, it was retreating with shield up backwards. they face hug me and nudge, its increddibly eazy in alot of combat situations on siege and battle to pull of.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Sparvico on May 25, 2013, 02:00:40 am
the times i got nudge wasnt facehugging, it was retreating with shield up backwards. they face hug me and nudge, its increddibly eazy in alot of combat situations on siege and battle to pull of.

You, my friend, are doing it wrong. Sidestep, swing at the right time, there are many ways to avoid a nudge. And if all else fails and you do get nudged perhaps accept the fact that you cannot always be at an advantage. I promise you that if you use good footwork you won't get nudged anymore then you get kicked.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 25, 2013, 03:54:13 am
You, my friend, are doing it wrong. Sidestep, swing at the right time, there are many ways to avoid a nudge. And if all else fails and you do get nudged perhaps accept the fact that you cannot always be at an advantage. I promise you that if you use good footwork you won't get nudged anymore then you get kicked.

How often did you see ranged guys landing kicks before?

Nudge is 10x easier to land than kicks regardless and carries far less risk

Just don't see what it adds to the game. Its a cool idea that you can bash someone in the face, but it adds nothing in terms of pvp style combat, it detracts from it imo. We got rid of pole stagger and that even needed to go past a manual block (or shield). This requires no prerequisite fail from a player except being close to someone which is going to happen regardless

Good features are bourn from necessity, or from an idea to increase pvp style depth. This however is only there because its cool (which it is). Its not like someone thought "hey we need more disables in combat, that will add depth". Its "I could code nudges and that looks cool as hell"
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Matey on May 25, 2013, 04:23:58 am
How often did you see ranged guys landing kicks before?

Nudge is 10x easier to land than kicks regardless and carries far less risk

Just don't see what it adds to the game. Its a cool idea that you can bash someone in the face, but it adds nothing in terms of pvp style combat, it detracts from it imo. We got rid of pole stagger and that even needed to go past a manual block (or shield). This requires no prerequisite fail from a player except being close to someone which is going to happen regardless

Good features are bourn from necessity, or from an idea to increase pvp style depth. This however is only there because its cool (which it is). Its not like someone thought "hey we need more disables in combat, that will add depth". Its "I could code nudges and that looks cool as hell"


nudges ARE borne of necessity. They are a fantastic addition to the game. The only thing that sucks about them is that it is possible to chain them into a kick. As for why they are needed... 2h hero holds an attack and waits for you to stop blocking.. sure you can try to fake him out or hope you can hit him before he lets his swing go in your face... but now you can also just run up and nudge him then force him to block an attack before he goes back to holding indefinitly again... which prompts you to nudge em again.. or if he is backpedaling you can even knock em down! Or you run into a shielder who refuses to ever attack and has an indestructible shield you can run up and nudge him which might throw him off a bit while you try to position for a swing on em. So yeah, nudges are great. they are also easier to use and easier to avoid for speedy people which is nice cause fuck str crutchers.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Require on May 25, 2013, 05:38:35 am
REMOVE NUDGE. It makes 1h OP. Having the ability to stun people while RUNNING at them is STUPID OP. Kicking you stand in one spot and takes skill and precision. This is just fucking stupid.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Matey on May 25, 2013, 05:41:46 am
REMOVE NUDGE. It makes 1h OP. Having the ability to stun people while RUNNING at them is STUPID OP. Kicking you stand in one spot and takes skill and precision. This is just fucking stupid.

kicking gives you a free hit. nudging just mildly annoys people but does not give you time to hit them. also depending on the nudge they use they can be quite open to a smack in the face if they miss.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Canuck on May 25, 2013, 05:46:29 am
Kicking you stand in one spot and takes skill and precision.
Eh, that's debatable.. Guess it depends on the situation.
I really don't believe though that nudging is that OP. It's great to stop a mauler from completely demolishing you with crush through, and can be used to score a free hit on really, really slow people but otherwise it's just an extra perk to 1h dueling. I don't quite understand why people want it instantly removed without even giving it a chance. Instead of lobbying for it's removal and saying it's so OP, provide constructive feedback that can be used to change the nudge for the benefit of the community and improve combat in general.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 25, 2013, 09:35:39 am
just leave it on in duels then i dont care, the problem is in teamplay nudge gets silly op. but hey scrubs gonna scrub. and these people saying they cant land a hit after nudge, oh god they have no clue. but ye i guess give it time and see.

canuck , i like how you try to sound smart requesting constructive feedback, but it all boils down to the fact that nudge is stupid because its an offensive unblockable stagger with no real counter but '' footwork'' wich is dependant on builds, so hey yeah if you have high athletics ( 7 + ) nudge wont bother you tomuch. also it isnt badly punishable since the animation is pretty quick and dousnt lock you in place. only way it might be ballanced is if you give it the same block cooldown as hitting a couched lance, then it would be usable for those rare situations where a shielder turtles up hard, and not like now where u have 3 1 handers pressing on and spamming nudge enytime it comes of cooldown.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: dontgothere on May 25, 2013, 09:48:51 am
what used to make crpg better than warband, better than chivalry and better than war of the roses was that the core gameplay mechanics - basic melee dynamics, trade-offs for having viable ranged skill, etcetera - were the focus of the experience
melee USED to be fluid, fast, and based on a subtle interplay between twitch-reaction, stat choices, and equipment familiarization.

now everything that made crpg preferable to the other crap knight-vs-knight games is being steadily eroded, useless crap is being added to complicate the game and detract from the fundamental visceral combat that was enjoyed ~2 years ago, meanwhile a host of bugs continue to exist and lots of older, excellent maps have been allowed to completely disappear.

nudge another nail in the coffin
in another year or two crpg is going to be just what chivalry and war of roses are: an arcade game where players juggle tired gimmicks through an overly-complicated interface

block up. block down. block left. block right. swing. stab. overhead. arrows. bolts. throws. shields. kicks. couching. chambers. feints. horsies.
that is ALL you need if you do your core balancing properly
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Tibe on May 25, 2013, 11:57:15 am
(click to show/hide)
Another one of the "back in my day, things were more simple and cooler" post. Grab your cane oldtimer and start scaring the neighbourhood kids while you are at it.

You know back in MY day. We played Pong. We had no need for fanzy graphics and those colors. All you need is a black and white screen and moving parts to make a perfectly balanced game. Like Pong is. Pong ftw!
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Sagar on May 25, 2013, 12:36:09 pm
Why not to add nudge for all weapons, just like kick.
2h,1h, polearm, throwing ... when you fight with opponent you have two options: kick or nudge.

Why would that be a problem?
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 25, 2013, 12:48:08 pm
Why not to add nudge for all weapons, just like kick.
2h,1h, polearm, throwing ... when you fight with opponent you have two options: kick or nudge.

Why would that be a problem?

The funny thing is if we changed the kick we have now so that you can use it while moving people would be up in arms, but add a new animation with a nudge or punch and its the coolest brogamer feature ever. Don't need more kick type mechanics, one is plenty and requires more skill to land than the new one
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: owens on May 25, 2013, 12:48:24 pm
fix nudge and it would be okay.

It is broken at the moment.



Punch a shield (door, plank, whatever) and tell me how it goes.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Ronin on May 25, 2013, 12:49:15 pm
The funny thing is if we changed the kick we have now so that you can use it while moving people would be up in arms, but add a new animation with a nudge or punch and its the coolest brogamer feature ever. Don't need more kick type mechanics, one is plenty and requires more skill to land than the new one

Nudge has a worse radius and range than kick. Not saying you don't make sense at all, but your argument is invalid.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 25, 2013, 12:52:52 pm
So changing kicks range a bit but allowing you to move while kicking wouldn't be something people would complain about? If they did that in a patch without this new animation these forums would go crazy with "nerf kick!" type threads. People just can't get over how shiny and new this thing is, its still very similar to a mobile kick and giving it to everyone will be a really bad idea
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Ronin on May 25, 2013, 01:07:21 pm
?

Read carefully.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: owens on May 25, 2013, 01:11:45 pm
nerf nudge
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Grumbs on May 25, 2013, 01:13:05 pm
?

Read carefully.

If you want to elaborate rather than making short "Your argument is invalid" type posts be my guest.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Tibe on May 26, 2013, 09:19:54 pm
Dedicated 100 gensinarow 2hplayers have no right discussing anything related to class/weaponbalancing. Cause they know about the subject, as much as my cat knows about interstellar travel.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Panos on May 26, 2013, 09:21:32 pm
OH LOOK, 2H HEROES ARE CRYING OVER A BUFF IN ANOTHER CLASS.

PLEASE BUFF 2H MORE.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 26, 2013, 09:24:01 pm
shut your whore mouth you !!!
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on May 26, 2013, 09:24:13 pm
Some changes are needed to nudges, however, not the shit the 2h heroes are lobbying for (which is mostly complete removal anyhow), nudging also isn't half as strong as Rufio/Grumbs would make it out to be.


Suggested alterations:

Removal immunity from kicks while nudging, why? It's retarded and fucks over kicks a bit to much. On the other hand a certain bug I don't wanna mention 'cause it'll be abused like crazy regarding kick-knockdown until the next patch in three months need to go.

Shove: Make it knock kicking people down, make it push people quite far backwards, and cancel their attacks, but not stun people or cancel blocks, this nudge would purely be for gaining distance plus pushing people off ledges, which is always fun. Also, increase its range by a decent amount.
Low left cross (normal nudge): Lower the stun on the guy nudged so it is pretty impossible for the nudger to also hit him, keep the knockdown and its conditions.
Left straight (attack nudge): Make it knockdown people doing the other two nudges, remove its ability to knockdown people kicking, increase the time you cannot block after doing it.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Panos on May 26, 2013, 09:25:06 pm
shut your whore mouth you !!!

LeDouche!
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Require on May 28, 2013, 04:48:03 am
kicking gives you a free hit. nudging just mildly annoys people but does not give you time to hit them. also depending on the nudge they use they can be quite open to a smack in the face if they miss.
It gives you time to do a chain kick. Meaning Nudge -> Kick -> Free hit. Any agi build 1h can do this nonstop.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Duster on May 28, 2013, 05:24:24 am
It gives you time to do a chain kick. Meaning Nudge -> Kick -> Free hit. Any agi build 1h can do this nonstop.

Adding a step to the already-used tactic by most decent 2hers which is kick -> free hit. Any 2h build can do this nonstop.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Matey on May 28, 2013, 05:27:32 am
im in favour of applying the nudge delay to kicking so as to prevent nudge -> kick. im also in favour of removing kicking though :D
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kenouse on May 28, 2013, 07:24:52 am
That nudge thing is OP as fuck... Its so easy to land, stuns almost as much as a kick and it hardly gives you any delay on your following attack.
Im not even sure why you wanted to buff 1h's, they are pretty strong without it.
If you want to be a 1h without a shield, be my guest.. you already get a damage buff from that if im not wrong. No need to make them even stronger, with a OP moving kick...
Give back Polestun!!
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Dezilagel on May 28, 2013, 07:24:54 am
Didn't read thread, but imo; while the nudges are a pretty cool concept, the "held attack nudge" is pure bull.

My suggestion would be to add the shove effect to that attack instead of the instant stagger we have now.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Strudog on May 28, 2013, 08:48:01 am
QQufio
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Kajia on May 28, 2013, 04:41:00 pm
Didn't read thread, but imo; while the nudges are a pretty cool concept, the "held attack nudge" is pure bull.

My suggestion would be to add the shove effect to that attack instead of the instant stagger we have now.

I agree.

I play most of my characters with 1h without a shield. I like the idea of nudge, but I still think nudge is too easy and gives too much of an advantage to one class alone.
I would propose changing it to a slight shove that requires a forward movement, and giving it to all classes at once, so that it's fair.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: rufio on May 28, 2013, 06:30:11 pm
giving nudge to 1 class only is weird, i mean whats next giving 2 handers a leap, and pole arms a multitarget spin attack, and ranged a quick succesion shot?
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 28, 2013, 06:51:05 pm
QQufio

Pot, meet kettle
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Ronin on May 28, 2013, 07:34:21 pm
giving nudge to 1 class only is weird, i mean whats next giving 2 handers a leap, and pole arms a multitarget spin attack, and ranged a quick succesion shot?
Why not? :mrgreen:
Diablo 2 mechanics? So Shielders must have the zeal skill.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Sagar on May 28, 2013, 07:56:19 pm
I heard something about Flamberge knockdown  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Require on May 28, 2013, 11:47:28 pm
im in favour of applying the nudge delay to kicking so as to prevent nudge -> kick. im also in favour of removing kicking though :D
Yeah, but 2h and polearms have to stop to kick, this nudge means 1h can stun people whenever the hell they want to.
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: Belatu on May 28, 2013, 11:48:57 pm
I want to change the key please
Title: Re: nudge
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on May 28, 2013, 11:50:40 pm
Nudge nudge, wink wink; say no more.

Your wife... does she... does she like sport? Eh? Eh?