cRPG

cRPG => Announcements => Topic started by: chadz on May 18, 2013, 09:53:32 am

Title: 0.3.0.0
Post by: chadz on May 18, 2013, 09:53:32 am
cmpxchg8b: Fixed slot system on siege, check for invalid banner meshes.
Urist: DTV: added warnings when the virgin is hit by bots
Urist: DTV: changed virgin speech so it's the same message for every player
Shik: fix strat bad mechanics - closed loophole where defender wins even after he's lost by flagcap as long as he hides long enough.
Urist: adding 1h w/o shield nudge to all gamemodes now that knockback is fixed
Harald: Fixed order by name on select char page.
Harald: Fixed archive/delete links on message list.
Harald: Fixed recipients extend/collapse link to not trigger collapsing of message too.
Harald: Added unread count when there are more than 3 recipients.
chadz: Added new Gamemode "Commander" Commander Mode Discussion (http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/%28new%29-commander-mode/new/#new)




Ok, version 0.3 here - it's a bit cheating, but the big version jump was done for several reasons.
1) New gamemode Commander Commander Mode Discussion (http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/%28new%29-commander-mode/new/#new)
2) New gamemode Siege beta (I forgot to switch version number back then)
3) running out of version numbers (don't ask.. they have to be single digit)
4) plan to fix the stronghold gamemode
5) plan to change the WPF formula
6) plan to go away from the multi system
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Glyph on May 18, 2013, 10:00:41 am
great work! glad to see you guys actively working on the mod. thx

EDIT: I see you guys have some great stuff for us in store, I bet it'll all work out great! changing the multi system is a thing I'd love to see being changed.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Panos on May 18, 2013, 10:07:52 am
Thanks for the new gamemode and the patch in general Devs,  but do you think you could add some new armors aswell??

Pretty please  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: BadooN on May 18, 2013, 10:19:58 am
I think a lot of people will be happy with a change in the multi system
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: KingBread on May 18, 2013, 10:26:29 am
those plans... i want them to stop being plans only
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Ronin on May 18, 2013, 10:28:34 am
Becmoing a swashbuckler now! Was waiting for this to get implemented!
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Prpavi on May 18, 2013, 11:31:26 am
5) plan to change the WPF formula
6) plan to go away from the multi system

interesting
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on May 18, 2013, 11:41:07 am
-post to follow-
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: engurrand on May 18, 2013, 11:46:50 am
-post to follow-
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Lactating Vegetables on May 18, 2013, 11:47:22 am
So going to update Eu7 aka dtv to have same features as NA7 yet?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Molly on May 18, 2013, 12:09:36 pm
5) plan to change the WPF formula
6) plan to go away from the multi system

interesting
Plannings are running since December 2010 :)
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: bagge on May 18, 2013, 12:13:05 pm
5) plan to change the WPF formula
6) plan to go away from the multi system

Good shit.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Burr1ck on May 18, 2013, 12:30:20 pm
Please make it so that you can rebind the nudge key (V).
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 18, 2013, 12:37:43 pm
haha, I  like the "plan" cheating.  :D

At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square..
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Gravoth_iii on May 18, 2013, 12:52:04 pm
The nudges are fucking epic, best thing ever. Sometimes hard to land, seems to have very short range and the nudge with held attack may be considered op as it pretty much functions as a fast kick, giving free hits. Still 1h w/o shield now has a purpose.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: [ptx] on May 18, 2013, 01:08:55 pm
I think you forgot to fix DUEL!  :(

Damned Urist, duel hater :/
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Rebelyell on May 18, 2013, 01:38:54 pm
Quote
5) plan to change the WPF formula
pls don't shit on the players and give them free respec, that may be really imporant for lots of players
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Panos on May 18, 2013, 01:39:18 pm
Can someone explain me what the "nudge" is and what it`s use?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Miwiw on May 18, 2013, 01:42:26 pm
Nudge is a feature on DTV servers, like shieldbash afaik.

Changing stuff about wpf seems interesting.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Jarlek on May 18, 2013, 02:20:49 pm
4) plan to fix the stronghold gamemode
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: BlindGuy on May 18, 2013, 02:30:34 pm
Becmoing a swashbuckler now! Was waiting for this to get implemented!

And AGAIN: swashbuckling means banging your weapon ON YOUR SHIELD.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Paul on May 18, 2013, 02:31:07 pm
Nudge guide (http://forum.meleegaming.com/guides/nudge-guide/msg786559/#msg786559) up.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Ronin on May 18, 2013, 02:43:00 pm
And AGAIN: swashbuckling means banging your weapon ON YOUR SHIELD.
No swahbuckling is
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Jacu on May 18, 2013, 02:50:08 pm
nudge - ok
shield bush - ok

but pls do something with this bugged kick.... kick makes something like struck wave WTF
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Macropus on May 18, 2013, 04:13:50 pm
And AGAIN: swashbuckling means banging your weapon ON YOUR SHIELD.
Swashbuckler = thug, cutthroat. Google translate is always right.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Patoson on May 18, 2013, 05:44:34 pm
These little additions to DTV are helpful, yes, but when will you update EU DTV? American DTV has had ragdoll hit soak and bots blocking properly for ages and you just won't update the EU server... If it's not possible, at least say it, but this silence is rude.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Christo on May 18, 2013, 06:52:58 pm
5) plan to change the WPF formula
6) plan to go away from the multi system

If you guys get these through, I'll come back and play more often.

\o/
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Inglorious on May 18, 2013, 07:02:01 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


#FCC#Delayers
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: San on May 18, 2013, 07:17:57 pm
The nudges are fucking epic, best thing ever. Sometimes hard to land, seems to have very short range and the nudge with held attack may be considered op as it pretty much functions as a fast kick, giving free hits. Still 1h w/o shield now has a purpose.
It has good range on guys to your left. It can barely hit someone directly in front of you. It completely misses someone who is anywhere on your right.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: zagibu on May 18, 2013, 07:52:23 pm
It has good range on guys to your left. It can barely hit someone directly in front of you. It completely misses someone who is anywhere on your right.

Which is great, because all them turtles are always going against the clock.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Angantyr on May 18, 2013, 08:32:04 pm
Thank you for the continued development of the mod.


(Of course the WPF change comes just as I've retired and almost finished my first lower-than-6-WM-build  :? :wink:)
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Panos on May 18, 2013, 08:39:19 pm
Thank you for the continued development of the mod.


(Of course the WPF change comes just as I've retired and almost finished my first lower-than-6-WM-build  :? :wink:)

AFAIK, when they will enable the WPF changes, we all gonna get a free respec
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Ronin on May 18, 2013, 08:53:04 pm
Which servers allow the nudge ability?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Gravoth_iii on May 18, 2013, 10:01:11 pm
After nudging for around 4 hours today i would say its kinda balanced, the really short range makes up for the free attack if you land one. Allthough some people seem to be unable to attack after having nudged someone, while i can attack almost instantly after i hit mine, why is this?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: matt2507 on May 18, 2013, 10:43:24 pm
First of all, thank you for this update, it's cool to see the developement of the mod continues in the same time of the game

However, I have a problem with the last update.
I have too high ping compared to usual.

Usually, I have between 45 and 50 ping.
Today I have between 100 and 120 ping.


(click to show/hide)

It is very annoying..

edit: For those who think that I forgot to stop my porn download behind, watch the screeshot and you will see my normal ping on EU4  :wink:


edit2: Apparently the problem was steam in the background. This is strange because I had no problem on the 4...
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: chadz on May 18, 2013, 11:01:55 pm
0.3.0.1 Quickfixes:

Urist: added nudge trigger to siege beta
Urist: hopefully fixed 3rd party nudging in duel mode
Urist: fix for duel nudge
chadz:
= Commander mode =
fix (?) bug where multiple ticks occur
disable repair
disable valor
make commander die when all troops dead
add commanders kill/death on bot success
new troops for commander mode (c) Tydeus
spawn motf between all agents
make hills flatter
made vaegirs and swadia available


Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Polobow on May 18, 2013, 11:12:23 pm
add commanders kill/death on bot success
What do you mean by this?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Elio on May 18, 2013, 11:31:20 pm
What can be used in Command Line ?
net_graph, sv_gravity, help ?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Ronin on May 18, 2013, 11:32:38 pm
What do you mean by this?
that means your personal k/d ratio will be based on you and your men.

0.3.0.1 Quickfixes:

Urist: added nudge trigger to siege beta
Urist: hopefully fixed 3rd party nudging in duel mode
Urist: fix for duel nudge
chadz:
= Commander mode =
fix (?) bug where multiple ticks occur
disable repair
disable valor
make commander die when all troops dead
add commanders kill/death on bot success
new troops for commander mode (c) Tydeus
spawn motf between all agents
make hills flatter
made vaegirs and swadia available

can't wait for khergits!
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: cmp on May 18, 2013, 11:49:44 pm
What can be used in Command Line ?
net_graph, sv_gravity, help ?

Just dev stuff (show_mouse_pos, flush_ondemand) and leftovers from TaleWorlds (show_ping_samples, bugged until next version).
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Banok on May 19, 2013, 08:30:11 am
so there will definitely be a wpf change soon? where are people getting this?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Miracle on May 19, 2013, 08:53:22 am
cmpxchg8b: Fixed slot system on siege, check for invalid banner meshes.
Urist: DTV: added warnings when the virgin is hit by bots
Urist: DTV: changed virgin speech so it's the same message for every player
Shik: fix strat bad mechanics - closed loophole where defender wins even after he's lost by flagcap as long as he hides long enough.
Urist: adding 1h w/o shield nudge to all gamemodes now that knockback is fixed
Harald: Fixed order by name on select char page.
Harald: Fixed archive/delete links on message list.
Harald: Fixed recipients extend/collapse link to not trigger collapsing of message too.
Harald: Added unread count when there are more than 3 recipients.
chadz: Added new Gamemode "Commander" Commander Mode Discussion (http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/%28new%29-commander-mode/new/#new)




Ok, version 0.3 here - it's a bit cheating, but the big version jump was done for several reasons.
1) New gamemode Commander Commander Mode Discussion (http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/%28new%29-commander-mode/new/#new)
2) New gamemode Siege beta (I forgot to switch version number back then)
3) running out of version numbers (don't ask.. they have to be single digit)
4) plan to fix the stronghold gamemode
5) plan to change the WPF formula
6) plan to go away from the multi system
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Falka on May 19, 2013, 09:29:22 am
so there will definitely be a wpf change soon? where are people getting this?
5) plan to change the WPF formula



http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/crpg-status-and-plans/

« on: June 24, 2012, 05:12:17 pm »
Quote from: chadz
we will also implement a new WPF curve, resulting in higher maximum WPF numbers and buffing those with weapon master skills. You can expect your wpf points to be wiped when this happens.

December 2010  :wink:
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Matey on May 19, 2013, 09:43:53 am
7) plan to make everything perfect and exactly the way you want it to be.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: FleetFox on May 19, 2013, 09:46:11 am
7) plan to make everything perfect and exactly the way you want it to be.

Sounds pretty sweet actually
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: BD_Baby_Wolf on May 19, 2013, 09:55:00 am
wpf formula change to celebrate half life 3 release?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Voso on May 19, 2013, 10:39:43 am
At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Gristle on May 19, 2013, 12:11:07 pm
Free respec with new wpf so all level 33+ players aren't forced to rage quit forever?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Teeth on May 19, 2013, 12:34:28 pm
My entire configuration reset entirely upon downloading the latest version today, this happened a few times before. I have quite heavily modified all my settings to fit my preference, including mouse sensitivity, font scale, attack control, music, key configuration, optimized graphics settings and so on. It is quite a nuisance having to redo it. Having to find or remember all my old settings. I dunno why this happens, but if there is a way to prevent it, please do or please tell me.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Panos on May 19, 2013, 12:43:13 pm
My entire configuration reset entirely upon downloading the latest version today, this happened a few times before. I have quite heavily modified all my settings to fit my preference, including mouse sensitivity, font scale, attack control, music, key configuration, optimized graphics settings and so on. It is quite a nuisance having to redo it. Having to find or remember all my old settings. I dunno why this happens, but if there is a way to prevent it, please do or please tell me.


Make your game configurations first and then

go to my Documents > MnB folder > and make a copy of the c-rpg folder

Now, each time a new patch comes out, just overwrite with the one you saved.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Polobow on May 19, 2013, 12:48:54 pm
My entire configuration reset entirely upon downloading the latest version today, this happened a few times before. I have quite heavily modified all my settings to fit my preference, including mouse sensitivity, font scale, attack control, music, key configuration, optimized graphics settings and so on. It is quite a nuisance having to redo it. Having to find or remember all my old settings. I dunno why this happens, but if there is a way to prevent it, please do or please tell me.

Isn't there a .txt file with all the settings saved? Just backup that one. If you copy your whole c-rpg folder you're just reverting back to an old version.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Panos on May 19, 2013, 12:54:53 pm
Isn't there a .txt file with all the settings saved? Just backup that one. If you copy your whole c-rpg folder you're just reverting back to an old version.


the c-rpg folder on my documents, has nothing to do, with the one at Program files.

Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Blackbow on May 19, 2013, 05:41:43 pm
...
5) plan to change the WPF formula
5.5) plan to give a free respec ????
6) plan to go away from the multi system
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Butan on May 20, 2013, 12:36:04 am
Shik: fix strat bad mechanics - closed loophole where defender wins by stacking enough troops on fiefs on the strategus map to deter any attacks using 1/3 rule.


Thats what I would have liked to hear about strat changes...



Great Patch nonetheless
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Turboflex on May 20, 2013, 05:06:04 pm
I don't get the point of tinkering with WPF.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Phew on May 20, 2013, 05:40:54 pm
I don't get the point of tinkering with WPF.

Right now, most builds have a choice between like 2% more speed and damage from 5+ points in Weapon Master, or 8%+ more damage from more strength+power strike/~20% more HP from Ironflesh/Riding skill to ride the best horses/etc. Weapon master is too crappy of a skill compared to all other skills/stats (at least for dedicated builds).

I think the leading proposal is to remove "free" wpf from leveling, replace it with wpf from the agility stat, coupled with making Weapon Master more rewarding to spec. This simultaneously makes agility and weapon master more effective.

There are lvl 33+ guys running around with builds like 30/18, all their points in PS+athletics, with a +3 longsword/HBS or similar and loomed medium armor. They are top-tier in damage, speed, and survivability, with nearly no compromises. The balanced/agility builds with weapon master should be a viable option compared to these juggernaughts, and a wpf rework is the best way to make this happen.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Kafein on May 20, 2013, 05:52:14 pm
I think the wpf curve shouldn't be touched too much, at least not towards faster attacks because those few % in swing speed actually do make a difference depending on your playstyle and also because you can already spam free with some weapons and high wm. I'd rather have WM give other bonuses.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Phew on May 20, 2013, 06:02:54 pm
I'd rather have WM give other bonuses.

Oh, agreed, large speed bonuses could lead to overpowered katana builds with 200wpf. I've suggested these many times before, but I think Weapon Master should unlock bonuses like:
-Allow deeper feints
-Enable bigger animation sweetspots
-Less chance to be stunned when blocking heavy weapons
-Less chanced to be crushed through
-Reduce effective weight of weapons
-Reduce wpf penalty due to armor weight
-Larger damage bonus from holds/longer window for max damage during holds
-Increased turn rates

i.e. duelist features that don't necessarily allow overpowered "spamming".

Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Elindor on May 20, 2013, 10:02:25 pm
The wpf curve rework should not yield really much faster results for those with wpf, it should instead slow down those WITHOUT it compared to where they are now.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Phew on May 20, 2013, 10:16:55 pm
The wpf curve rework should not yield really much faster results for those with wpf, it should instead slow down those WITHOUT it compared to where they are now.

I imagine the lvl 34 guys with 0 WM will be pissed though. Then again, they got to rule the roost for years, so crocodile tears.

Free respecs would just encourage high level players to chase the latest flavor-of-the-month build. More frequent training lesson auctions would be a good compromise. In fact, "mini respecs" would be another good auction item; more frequent auctions but only allow you to change a few skills/stats at a time (so people couple move some points from IF to WM, for instance).
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: IG_Saint on May 20, 2013, 11:03:08 pm
In this (http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/crpg-status-and-plans/) post, chadz did say "You can expect your wpf points to be wiped when this happens." about the wpf changes, but I wouldn't expect a complete respec. As far as I can remember the only time (after the very old days) the devs have given a complete respec was after the big patch that added the current retirement and max lvl system.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Prpavi on May 20, 2013, 11:51:49 pm
In this (http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/crpg-status-and-plans/) post, chadz did say "You can expect your wpf points to be wiped when this happens." about the wpf changes, but I wouldn't expect a complete respec. As far as I can remember the only time (after the very old days) the devs have given a complete respec was after the big patch that added the current retirement and max lvl system.

I think doing somtehing so radical as removing wpf points at this moment would be a welcome breath of fresh air in the mod.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: karasu on May 21, 2013, 12:09:12 am
Quote
Urist: DTV: added warnings when the virgin is hit by bots
Urist: DTV: changed virgin speech so it's the same message for every player



Thanks paul! :3
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Phew on May 21, 2013, 04:18:48 am
chadz did say "You can expect your wpf points to be wiped when this happens." about the wpf changes, but I wouldn't expect a complete respec.

well, the people most screwed by a wpf curve change would be people with 0 WM, and those people wouldn't benefit from a "wpf wipe". They would want some mechanism to convert points in other skills to weapon master. Like I said before though, those people shouldn't be rewarded for their prior min/maxing.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Angantyr on May 21, 2013, 07:18:08 am
The wpf curve rework should not yield really much faster results for those with wpf, it should instead slow down those WITHOUT it compared to where they are now.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on May 21, 2013, 10:05:19 am
Since 3.0 I have problems to find servers when searching "Internet" wide...
In my favorites everything is okay...but when I search for Internet i cant find servers like NA_3 and others...

Any solutions or suggestion what I can do or change?
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: cmp on May 21, 2013, 12:55:18 pm
The wpf curve rework should not yield really much faster results for those with wpf, it should instead slow down those WITHOUT it compared to where they are now.

Yeah, this is what we plan to do.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: F i n on May 21, 2013, 02:18:12 pm
6) plan to go away from the multi system

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Panos on May 21, 2013, 02:20:51 pm
Yeah, this is what we plan to do.

can you give us an ETA at least  :?:
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: cmp on May 21, 2013, 02:22:03 pm
ETA: when it's done.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: F i n on May 21, 2013, 02:24:23 pm
ETA: when it's done.

Answers that actually dont answer anything. Love them.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Angellore on May 21, 2013, 02:33:48 pm
Almost a year ago chadz wrote those changes are planned (http://forum.meleegaming.com/announcements/crpg-status-and-plans/msg522883/#msg522883), so you can figure out yourself when they will be done :D.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Christo on May 21, 2013, 04:45:01 pm
ETA: when it's done.

December 2010
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Turboflex on May 21, 2013, 05:39:07 pm
Right now, most builds have a choice between like 2% more speed and damage from 5+ points in Weapon Master, or 8%+ more damage from more strength+power strike/~20% more HP from Ironflesh/Riding skill to ride the best horses/etc. Weapon master is too crappy of a skill compared to all other skills/stats (at least for dedicated builds).

I think the leading proposal is to remove "free" wpf from leveling, replace it with wpf from the agility stat, coupled with making Weapon Master more rewarding to spec. This simultaneously makes agility and weapon master more effective.

There are lvl 33+ guys running around with builds like 30/18, all their points in PS+athletics, with a +3 longsword/HBS or similar and loomed medium armor. They are top-tier in damage, speed, and survivability, with nearly no compromises. The balanced/agility builds with weapon master should be a viable option compared to these juggernaughts, and a wpf rework is the best way to make this happen.

Still don't see the point.

First off, right now you have people with high PS not just cuz they don't have WM but cuz everyone is running around in 55-70 loomed armor. I have 8 PS which is high for a shielder, not cuz I'm trying to min-max but because I need that PS to actually hurt these armoured people with a slash damage weapon (even a high one with 38c), let alone in strat battles where armor is usually over 70.

So what's going to be done about armor? Nerf PS-STR builds and high loomed armor just gets indirectly buffed.

Second, take a look at the most dangerous players around. They all know animation breaking tricks, all the best 2h can do this animation breaking double hilt slash thing, polearms can do this point blank animation breaking stab where they bring it up quick then down, and shielders have animation breaking turns also. None of this is dependent on WPF, they could have zero and still do this. Compared to this speed from broken animation tricks, even 200 wpf is a marginal improvement.

Third, WM is already balanced: It's a specialty skill for people either trying to get 180+ wpf for certain weapons where it actually is marginally effective (super slow ones like long maul or arbalast, or super fast ones for a marginal boost to ultimate spam) and for hybrids. If you have multiple melee, or melee + range, you need to sacrifice some points for WM. Seems fair to me. The mistake is people think you need WM otherwise, or need WPF past like 110-120.

So again, I don't see the point, or the point is based on faulty calculations and will lead to unintended consequences: PS is currently to counter high armor, nerf it and you buff armor. If I have to drop from 24-15 to 18-18 to get more WM, well goodbye to cut weapons I guess I will have to use a steel pick instead to open up 65 armor people in reasonable time. Also the fastest meleers don't use WPF anyway, they use turns and the engine's bad animations.

Now the devs are smart guys and I don't think they'd just patch in a mess of a rebalance, but taking this on seems like a more effort than it's worth and won't accomplish anything except to mollify some weirdoes here who have an obsession with having their gimmick 12-27 ninja builds perfectly "fairly balanced" with everyone else.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: engurrand on May 21, 2013, 05:47:10 pm
Still don't see the point.

First off, right now you have people with high PS not just cuz they don't have WM but cuz everyone is running around in 55-70 loomed armor. I have 8 PS which is high for a shielder, not cuz I'm trying to min-max but because I need that PS to actually hurt these armoured people with a slash damage weapon (even a high one with 38c), let alone in strat battles where armor is usually over 70.

So what's going to be done about armor? Nerf PS-STR builds and high loomed armor just gets indirectly buffed.

Second, take a look at the most dangerous players around. They all know animation breaking tricks, all the best 2h can do this animation breaking double hilt slash thing, polearms can do this point blank animation breaking stab where they bring it up quick then down, and shielders have animation breaking turns also. None of this is dependent on WPF, they could have zero and still do this. Compared to this speed from broken animation tricks, even 200 wpf is a marginal improvement.

Third, WM is already balanced: It's a specialty skill for people either trying to get 180+ wpf for certain weapons where it actually is marginally effective (super slow ones like long maul or arbalast, or super fast ones for a marginal boost to ultimate spam) and for hybrids. If you have multiple melee, or melee + range, you need to sacrifice some points for WM. Seems fair to me. The mistake is people think you need WM otherwise, or need WPF past like 110-120.

So again, I don't see the point, or the point is based on faulty calculations and will lead to unintended consequences: PS is currently to counter high armor, nerf it and you buff armor. If I have to drop from 24-15 to 18-18 to get more WM, well goodbye to cut weapons I guess I will have to use a steel pick instead to open up 65 armor people in reasonable time. Also the fastest meleers don't use WPF anyway, they use turns and the engine's bad animations.

Now the devs are smart guys and I don't think they'd just patch in a mess of a rebalance, but taking this on seems like a more effort than it's worth and won't accomplish anything except to mollify some weirdoes here who have an obsession with having their gimmick 12-27 ninja builds perfectly "fairly balanced" with everyone else.

The animations are not broken. Thats how they are supposed to work.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Phew on May 21, 2013, 07:24:56 pm
Still don't see the point.

Sounds like your beef is with the animations, not a proposed buff to WM. And most people would agree; everyone has found ways to hit for full damage in the first 1% of the animation, nullifying footwork, weapon speed, wpf, etc. Sounds like the animation sweetspots need to be adjusted, then wpf will start to matter a lot.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Turboflex on May 21, 2013, 07:32:52 pm
ok so what about reducing average PS being an indirect buff to armour which is actually a bigger concern.

Less STR/PS = better get a blunt/pierce weapon cuz no way is slash gonna do much for me vs typical 55-70 armour player.

The animations are what they are doubt they will change. Just saying WPF is marginal compared to them when it comes to determining actual swing speed.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Matey on May 21, 2013, 08:46:56 pm
December 2010
Beat me to it D:
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Byrdi on May 21, 2013, 11:15:48 pm
Sounds really good.

Though please update EU_4, so us non-gangbangers can have all the WSE2 stuff as well.
(Though, I am seriously doubting that you can update EU_4, it seems to be on a different server and all. Do you even have access to it?)
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Cup1d on May 22, 2013, 11:53:47 am
I hope the WPF curve change will not mean that one will have to max out WM.

Of course, why do you need to learn something about your weapon, if you can just fress up and grow you muscle fast.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Ronin on May 22, 2013, 12:40:11 pm
He is talking about maxing it out all the time, for every build.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Phew on May 22, 2013, 03:03:48 pm
He is talking about maxing it out all the time, for every build.

Probably won't be any more "necessary" than Ironflesh, the skill it usually competes with. Maxing Ironflesh usually provides ~20% more HP, while maxing weapon master provides a couple percent damage and speed.

Like I keep saying, it will be a lot easier to balance Weapon Master if the bonuses are something other than damage and speed. I think you should need lots of weapon master to enable hiltslashes and spinthrusts and all these other wonky animation abuses; right now a 39/3 guy in plate with 0WM can pick up a longsword and double hit like a boss just by hiltslashing.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Byrdi on May 22, 2013, 05:46:52 pm
I think you should need lots of weapon master to enable hiltslashes and spinthrusts and all these other wonky animation abuses; right now a 39/3 guy in plate with 0WM can pick up a longsword and double hit like a boss just by hiltslashing.

I doubt that they are able to or going to change that. Besides you must be really slow (reflex wise) or have a lousy ping to whine about being out spammed by a full STR build.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 05:55:22 pm
I doubt that they are able to or going to change that. Besides you must be really slow (reflex wise) or have a lousy ping to whine about being out spammed by a full STR build.

No, you don't need anything special to be spammed by a STR build. Really. The sheer amount of hits they can survive already makes random spam or trying to chamberblock everything a "valid" tactic for STR stacks because heh being hit when you fail isn't so bad, and you only need to get lucky once or twice to kill your enemy. Furthermore, hitting in early animation stages bounces less when you have lots of PS, and that's the reason STR spam works.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Sagar on May 22, 2013, 06:28:29 pm
I hope, from all new changes that str builds wont be totally fucked up.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Nehvar on May 22, 2013, 08:22:55 pm
I see a lot of worrying in chat these days over WPF levels potentially exceeding 200.  I don't know exactly what you're thinking about doing with the WPF curve so this may be a worthless suggestion but have you considered introducing WM-dependent WPF caps? 
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Algarn on May 23, 2013, 09:10:42 pm
just fix a limit.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Duc_OLIVIERO_loliv on May 24, 2013, 11:59:31 am
I can not get passed from the version v.2.9.3.5 to 3.0.0.4 gives me his version of his: the underlying connection was closed: An unexpected error occurred during the reception. Unable to read data from the transport connection: An existing connection had to be closed by the remote host. An existing connection was forcibly Dermée by the remote host . I need HELP :)
Title: Re: 0.3.1.0
Post by: Apsod on June 21, 2013, 03:41:36 am
I am hoping that the next patch will have some goodies.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Varadin on June 21, 2013, 05:38:38 am
i hope for many many new items
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: Mendro on June 21, 2013, 01:42:33 pm
I hope there will be a next patch.
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: karasu on June 21, 2013, 02:12:28 pm
Patch....?


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 0.3.0.0
Post by: FleetFox on June 21, 2013, 02:27:27 pm
cant wait for the next patch! new multi system ahhh right