cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Penguin on May 16, 2013, 07:56:58 am

Title: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Penguin on May 16, 2013, 07:56:58 am: Buff thrust damage or remove it outright. If the long maul thrust somehow does less damage than a wooden staff and shares the weakest thrust in the entire mod (with the practice sword) then why even have a thrust at all?

Up the speed from 70 to 76. It's unusable if you can't just kite as a naked or lightly armored agility build and backwhack people. It's too slow to use if you have too much strength, and has no crushthrough, the main advantage, if you have too much agility.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Penguin on May 16, 2013, 09:15:51 am: Quote from: Kulin_ban on May 16, 2013, 08:51:20 am
l2p

(click to show/hide)
Only maul that has enough distance to be held to crush trough, without getting slapped in your face by a scimitar spammer

Is....is this a joke? I don't know anyone that could possibly lose with a scimitar(that's not a level 13 peasant) against a long maul.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Molly on May 16, 2013, 09:32:31 am: After being spec to Elio for a little while on EU1 when he was Long Maul'ing, I'd say the weapon is just fine :D
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: NuberT on May 16, 2013, 09:56:58 am: Quote from: Kulin_ban on May 16, 2013, 08:51:20 am
l2p

(click to show/hide)
Only maul that has enough distance to be held to crush trough, without getting slapped in your face by a scimitar spammer

Scimi right swing as many other 1h got more reach, just saying. And thanks to insta-swings you can practically start your swing as a 1h after 50% of the long mauls overhead animation is completed. For me its just borked right now and I am raging way more than having fun..

Edit: But I like the thrust, its nice for poking teamates :oops:
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Kafein on May 16, 2013, 12:11:36 pm: The long maul does what it is good at. And it is a pretty decent melee weapon if you don't forget you better be 100% sure about overheads and thrusts.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Thomek on May 16, 2013, 01:09:10 pm: I'd say it could use a slight slight buff.. :)

It's fun and seeing more usage of it wouldn't hurt. It also has enourmous weakness with its speed.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Gurnisson on May 16, 2013, 01:41:10 pm: It really needs a buff and have needed one for quite a while.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: ThePoopy on May 16, 2013, 04:46:07 pm: long maul is so slow, when you knock someone down they can still block your next attack.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Elmuri on May 16, 2013, 04:57:40 pm: And the crushthrough effect is too weak, with 9ps even small swords often completely block my overheads (even if I hold the attack for some time).
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Thomek on May 16, 2013, 05:03:11 pm: trick is to hold the attack exactly 1.2 secs or smth? There's a sweetspot somewhere. It's the time it takes for your char to AAARGH when you release :)
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: wayyyyyne on May 16, 2013, 05:56:48 pm: I think the main problem with the long maul is that people using it think it's all about doing overheads all the time.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Kafein on May 16, 2013, 06:49:20 pm: Quote from: wayyyyyne on May 16, 2013, 05:56:48 pm
I think the main problem with the long maul is that people using it think it's all about doing overheads all the time.

Pretty much this.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Gurnisson on May 16, 2013, 08:32:52 pm: Quote from: wayyyyyne on May 16, 2013, 05:56:48 pm
I think the main problem with the long maul is that people using it think it's all about doing overheads all the time.

No, the main problem is that the thrust is utter garbage and you'll get double-hit every time an enemy is in reach, even doing side swings. And the reach ain't even that long. It truly is a bad weapon if you don't have a dedicated buddy guarding you at all times.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Elmuri on May 16, 2013, 08:59:49 pm: Quote from: wayyyyyne on May 16, 2013, 05:56:48 pm
I think the main problem with the long maul is that people using it think it's all about doing overheads all the time.
Too bad it's so slow and easy to see that your sideswings and thrusts get blocked all the time.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Thomek on May 16, 2013, 09:33:17 pm: Nevertheless, its very effective in siege with heavy armor and a str build.. :D
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: NuberT on May 16, 2013, 09:54:09 pm: List of direkt and indirekt nerfs:

Damage reduced (more than 2 years ago, shortly after the model was changed, cannot remember the old values, but I think it was a lot higher)

Change of the armor/soak values (~2 years ago, biggest nerf in my opinion, as it made group fights pretty much impossible -stun-)

Nerf of loomed armors (less bouncing -> more stun, being stunned = dead with long maul)

Removal of polearm stun (not sure, if long maul actually got polestun, but I can remember that it was possible to hit a shielder twice with an overhead)

Turn rate nerf (can't think of any weapon, which got hurt more than long maul by this - to hit something when the enemy got space to dodge, depends on nothing but luck)

Crushthrough nerf (worst for me is that it made chamberblocks useless..)

List of direkt and indirekt buffs:

Crushthrough damage buff (too bad overheads suck so hard, that you barely use them)

did I miss something? also QQ and eh QQ, but I really don't care anymore, since I got my long hafted spiked mace of knockdown.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Penguin on May 17, 2013, 12:22:44 am: I believe the speed was heavily nerfed as well within the last year or so. I'm not sure of the previous values but if I had to guess it was around 75-77.

Also, I believe that there ARE people that can do well with the long maul, however these are the 0.01% of people who use it. And even those people agree that your playstyle has to completely make up for its shortcomings. If you look at the long maul and compare its stats to the cheaper long hafted spiked mace you will see how ludicrous it is to select the long maul over the mace.

It's longer, by 13 units, weighs 4 less, is 91 speed (versus 70), does 10 more thrust damage (20), is one less slot, and only 5 less damage (which would be the same if you loomed it) than the long maul. 2handers, imagine if you were using the great maul while the bar mace did only 5 less damage, had 21 more speed, and weighed 4 less. Save the long maul!
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: NuberT on May 17, 2013, 01:46:08 am: Quote from: Penguin on May 17, 2013, 12:22:44 am
I believe the speed was heavily nerfed as well within the last year or so. I'm not sure of the previous values but if I had to guess it was around 75-77.

Also, I believe that there ARE people that can do well with the long maul, however these are the 0.01% of people who use it. And even those people agree that your playstyle has to completely make up for its shortcomings. If you look at the long maul and compare its stats to the cheaper long hafted spiked mace you will see how ludicrous it is to select the long maul over the mace.

It's longer, by 13 units, weighs 4 less, is 91 speed (versus 70), does 10 more thrust damage (20), is one less slot, and only 5 less damage (which would be the same if you loomed it) than the long maul. 2handers, imagine if you were using the great maul while the bar mace did only 5 less damage, had 21 more speed, and weighed 4 less. Save the long maul!

Speed was at 70 the whole time, maybe it was different with the old model, cannot remember..

But yeah whats the point, there is exactly one reason to play long maul and thats ofc the overhead crushthrough, which has been nerfed to a point where the whole weapon is just inferior to every other melee class..
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Jarold on May 17, 2013, 01:57:54 am: JesusChrist, what a renown whore. :P
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 17, 2013, 08:17:38 am: Make the long maul 4 slots
Put it's speed up to 82
Increase it's length by 15
Increase it's weight by 3
Increase it's damage by 8
Remove thrust

Fixed, it should now crush skulls real good, but it will suffer pretty badly on ye olde turn rate.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Tydeus on May 17, 2013, 08:43:43 am: I should probably point out before more people waste their time with this thread, that a buff for the Long Maul has been planned for a few weeks now.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 17, 2013, 09:00:18 am: Do mine or I poke you eye Tiedye!
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Tydeus on May 17, 2013, 09:07:37 am: Quote from: Kulin_ban on May 17, 2013, 09:02:37 am
Buying +3 Long Maul
Do it, +15 damage on both swings and thrusts, +15 speed, and +5 weight. Best weapon in the game.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 17, 2013, 09:27:38 am: I already brought all the LMs and Heavy Lances. Now to wait for unnerf and profit!
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Strudog on May 17, 2013, 09:30:50 am: Quote from: Tydeus on May 17, 2013, 08:43:43 am
I should probably point out before more people waste their time with this thread, that a buff for the Long Maul has been planned for a few weeks now.

Great Marketing, let me guess you have 5 Long Mauls?
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 17, 2013, 09:44:19 am: Quote from: strudog on May 17, 2013, 09:30:50 am
Great Marketing, let me guess you have 5 Long Mauls?

He has none because I brought them all off him for 1.3mill each! I'll be rich! RICH I TELL YA!
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Nukkel on May 17, 2013, 05:15:02 pm: Long mual needs more speed for sure. Every weapon can spam me.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Necrorave on May 17, 2013, 05:27:43 pm: Quote from: Tydeus on May 17, 2013, 08:43:43 am
I should probably point out before more people waste their time with this thread, that a buff for the Long Maul has been planned for a few weeks now.

Now how about that Long Voulge...
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Tydeus on May 17, 2013, 06:40:00 pm: Quote from: strudog on May 17, 2013, 09:30:50 am
Great Marketing, let me guess you have 5 Long Mauls?
I was the one who proposed the buffs. And no, it's not getting the previously mentioned stat change. Just a modest buff.

Quote from: Necrorave on May 17, 2013, 05:27:43 pm
Now how about that Long Voulge...
Removed.
Replaced with Looney Toons Axe
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Teeth on May 17, 2013, 07:11:47 pm: Quote from: wayyyyyne on May 16, 2013, 05:56:48 pm
I think the main problem with the long maul is that people using it think it's all about doing overheads all the time.
If you stop doing overheads the weapon just devolves into an unbelievably crappy version of the Long Hafted Spiked Mace. Occasionally I like to maul a little on siege, usually just with my main and despite having a 167 wpf difference, I'd pick the Great Maul over the Long Maul any day of the week.

Long Maul has been utterly crap for about 3 years now. -10 less speed, 1 less weight, 6 less damage, all that for 65 extra reach, which still makes it shorter than any weapon ever. With that speed it is almost impossible to actually use the reach anyway. A steel pick user can close that distance easily within the time it takes to swing and left swing you in the face.

Buff it, a lot.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Riddaren on May 17, 2013, 07:51:50 pm: Not only is it slow, it doesn't seem to deal the damage it should.
I once hit a shielder with 4 overheads, all with crushtrough but he didn't die and I had 8 PS and 150 wpf in polearm at that time.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Jarlek on May 17, 2013, 09:21:01 pm: I wouldn't mind a buff to the longmaul if they made it 4 slots.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: wayyyyyne on May 17, 2013, 09:58:31 pm: Quote from: Jarlek on May 17, 2013, 09:21:01 pm
I wouldn't mind a buff to the longmaul if they made it 4 slots.

oh yeah swashbucklers with a long maul maul on their back is what's breaking the mod

Quote from: Teeth on May 17, 2013, 07:11:47 pm
If you stop doing overheads the weapon just devolves into an unbelievably crappy version of the Long Hafted Spiked Mace. Occasionally I like to maul a little on siege, usually just with my main and despite having a 167 wpf difference, I'd pick the Great Maul over the Long Maul any day of the week.

Long Maul has been utterly crap for about 3 years now. -10 less speed, 1 less weight, 6 less damage, all that for 65 extra reach, which still makes it shorter than any weapon ever. With that speed it is almost impossible to actually use the reach anyway. A steel pick user can close that distance easily within the time it takes to swing and left swing you in the face.

Buff it, a lot.

I never said it wasn't in need of some sort of buff but what I do say is that people got the wrong expectations when touching the long maul. It's just this typical weapon every first gen players uses (together with the LEE and the warhammer) because they think something that long and high damaging and down knocking MUST BE THE SHIT (it even got CT on top!!!!!!!). It's really just the kinda weapon that gets effective when you either a) buddy up with a decent teammate or b) stand behind a ladder in siege (I've seen it being used really succesfully that way in strat sieges). The overhead is situational unless your opponent is a moron and that's the way it should be.

The kinda buff I personally would be ok with would be upping its damage by something like 5(+x ?) points (remember we're talking blunt damage here that also comes with crush through and knockdown) so that it becomes the slow hitting shield-crushing juggernaut it's supposed to be but really isn't at the current state of the mod. It's either the beginner's trap or the niche weapon for really decent polearm users.
Leave the speed as it is. Remove the thrust.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: NuberT on May 18, 2013, 02:02:52 am: Speed was fine, until the crushthrough delay nonsense, which is simply plain stupid - I certainly gather more power by holding 8 kg 1 m behind my back for 1,2 seconds.. But its not working as it is right now either speed increase or preferably removal of that crushthrough delay. And the long overdue damage buff ofc.. I wouldn't mind 4 slots, if the weapon would finally hurt again.
Trust is also fine as it is in my opinion, its just good for the lols.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on May 18, 2013, 07:16:49 am: The side swings are not entirely useless. Like the hafted spike maces, you can aim at the floor and do some wacky support swings that seem to magically bend around your teamate who is in front of you. Overhead is still the main draw of the weapon though.

I agree that a modest buff was long(hehe) needed. It's one of those weapons that you only see once in a blue moon, because it is mediocre at most things.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: vipere on May 18, 2013, 09:32:21 am: Just remove the crushtrough delay for the long maul.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Penguin on June 29, 2013, 11:40:27 pm: I'd just like to thank the devs for making the long maul 76 speed and buffing the thrust!
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: Tydeus on June 29, 2013, 11:59:06 pm: Quote from: Penguin on June 29, 2013, 11:40:27 pm
I'd just like to thank the devs for making the long maul 76 speed and buffing the thrust!
I'm taking payments in form of +1s.
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: BadooN on June 30, 2013, 12:13:41 am: of course my mighty long maul trade gets accepted right after the patch is up lol
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: rustyspoon on June 30, 2013, 04:12:25 am: Quote from: BadooN on June 30, 2013, 12:13:41 am
of course my mighty long maul trade gets accepted right after the patch is up lol

Thanks for the maul, by the way. :wink:
Title: Re: Save the Long Maul
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 30, 2013, 09:20:55 am: With 156 WPF, the change from 70 -> 76 speed feels like a huge difference. Almost as fast sidewswings as an expensive greatsword with 111 wpf.