cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: owens on May 12, 2013, 01:14:50 pm

Title: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: owens on May 12, 2013, 01:14:50 pm
haha really????
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Brrrak on May 12, 2013, 09:29:40 pm
-3 pierce from the GS, but...same cut.

Oh my lawd.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Jarlek on May 12, 2013, 11:19:46 pm
Yet, a halberd having the same cut damage as a katana is totally fine...
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Sparvico on May 13, 2013, 06:03:02 am
Pretty much makes Great Swords pointless. Just get a Longsword if you want fast and a bit shorter, or a Sword of War, which is the great swords non-retarded brother.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kadeth on May 14, 2013, 04:19:35 am
Much cheaper, much faster and same swing damage with only 14 less reach? Nerf Longsword thx!
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Strudog on May 14, 2013, 09:29:27 am
70 body armour and 6 IF and all lordly stuff, lose 90% of my health to one swing of a longsword, nerf that shit
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kafein on May 14, 2013, 09:33:37 am
Quote from: strudog on May 14, 2013, 09:29:27 am
70 body armour and 6 IF and all lordly stuff, lose 90% of my health to one swing of a longsword, nerf that shit

With MW longsword and 7 PS, I need more than ten swings at Butan to kill him, instead of 50 like in a fast-paced and skillbased game, nerf that shit please !
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: owens on May 14, 2013, 10:08:19 am
^ that is a lie

Longswords do too much damage for no disadvantage
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kafein on May 14, 2013, 10:12:12 am
Quote from: owens on May 14, 2013, 10:08:19 am
^ that is a lie

Longswords do too much damage for no disadvantage

You mean all melee weapons do much too weak damage, except the longsword is one of those that needs to be slightly less buffed ? Yes, definitely.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Lannistark on May 14, 2013, 10:21:19 am
As a spamming user of the longsword, I'll admit it's funny as fuck seeing how you can basically:

1.
 Spam almost every player with easy hitslashes.
2.
 Killing Great Sword wielders in less hits than they gave to you.
3.
(click to show/hide)
4.
 Laugh at the face of all those who complain "that fucking toy is insanely overpowered".
5.
 Realise longsword is indeed fucking overpowered...
6.
Pray that it will not be nerfed because it definitely needs a damage nerf.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kafein on May 14, 2013, 10:28:10 am
Anyway it's more of a speed rating problem
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Lannistark on May 14, 2013, 10:35:47 am
Mainly, speed is the problem. Yet a very speedy weapon with reasonably low damage would be acceptable. What you can't have is a machine gun - like two handed sword.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: owens on May 14, 2013, 11:17:13 am
@Kafein.
A longsword slash would never ever cut through padded chain mail. EVER.



This isn't the lord of the rings movie. People wore armour for a reason. It worked.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kafein on May 14, 2013, 01:16:53 pm
Quote from: owens on May 14, 2013, 11:17:13 am
@Kafein.
A longsword slash would never ever cut through padded chain mail. EVER.



This isn't the lord of the rings movie. People wore armour for a reason. It worked.

This is a game. Your argument is invalid. Really.

By your logic all 1h swords should be utterly useless. They already are to some degree anyway.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: owens on May 14, 2013, 01:43:59 pm
^you said it yourself many one handed swords are weak


Kafein have you ever used a sword?

You can swing a sword much more comfortably with 1 hand than 2. I would estimate with maybe 80% the penetration. The longsword i toyed with was ~115cm in length and it really was fast but i doubt it was as dangerous as the bigger greatswords I would prefer to have a shield or sidearm instead of using it with two hands.

I say buff its 1H mode (mayeb x mode) reduce its damage back to 35cut.
 


Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kafein on May 14, 2013, 03:02:20 pm
Quote from: owens on May 14, 2013, 01:43:59 pm
^you said it yourself many one handed swords are weak


Kafein have you ever used a sword?

You can swing a sword much more comfortably with 1 hand than 2. I would estimate with maybe 80% the penetration. The longsword i toyed with was ~115cm in length and it really was fast but i doubt it was as dangerous as the bigger greatswords I would prefer to have a shield or sidearm instead of using it with two hands.

I say buff its 1H mode (mayeb x mode) reduce its damage back to 35cut.

1h weapons are weaker than longswords in the game. If you want to nerf longswords down to the point they can't penetrate mail, then you may as well remove 1h swords.

Also I get the feeling I'm reading your post backwards or you mixed it with your shopping list.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Ulter on May 14, 2013, 03:38:31 pm
Making the armour penetration realistic in a game where EVERYBODY can afford plate is not a good idea.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kafein on May 14, 2013, 03:58:09 pm
Quote from: Ulter on May 14, 2013, 03:38:31 pm
Making the armour penetration realistic in a game where EVERYBODY can afford plate is not a good idea.

Well I already posted this suggestion but if everybody could afford plate but team balance was done based on equipment cost, then you'd get a sizable advantage by not using expensive stuff because your team would be stronger.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kadeth on May 15, 2013, 11:09:39 am
Realism aside, it hits pretty hard for a weapon with that speed rating. Same could be said for the HBS.

35 cut would be reasonable; it would still be faster and have higher damage than most 1h weapons, but wouldn't hit as hard as a great sword.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Mlekce on May 15, 2013, 03:30:21 pm
Quote from: Kafein on May 14, 2013, 09:33:37 am
With MW longsword and 7 PS, I need more than ten swings at Butan to kill him, instead of 50 like in a fast-paced and skillbased game, nerf that shit please !

Butan have 30 str,plate and 10if man. You need like 4 flamberge hits to kill him.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Necrorave on May 15, 2013, 03:42:17 pm
I tend to say that 2h is much stronger then every other class in most situations.  Although, what I really mean is that the 3 "1/2h" swords are just too fast and strong at the same time.  They used to be alright, then they had a great idea to boost their speeds by 2 for no apparent reason.

Lower the damage on those 3, the speed I can deal with.  I should not be one shot by a longsword on a daily basis.  A good hit is understandable, although the amount of damage it offers just does not need a good hit half the time.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Strudog on May 15, 2013, 03:59:25 pm
70 body armour 5 IF and 22 STR, i lose 90% of my health to a longsword swing, thats more than any pole arm, which has a cut damage of up to 46.

NERF THAT SHIT.

When they nerfed greatswords who the fuck came up with the idea that the Longsword and HBS was UP and thought they needed a buff, this is what happens when a dev team don't play their own game
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kafein on May 16, 2013, 02:18:54 pm
Quote from: strudog on May 15, 2013, 03:59:25 pm
70 body armour 5 IF and 22 STR, i lose 90% of my health to a longsword swing

No you dont
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: owens on May 16, 2013, 02:34:33 pm
It normally takes about 3 hits to kill my 21str 7IF with 37 armour loadout

but... I was 1hit by a HBS stab on NA_1

and i did lose 70% hp to one longsword swing on AUS 1 last night
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Gurnisson on May 16, 2013, 02:38:00 pm
Quote from: Mlekce on May 15, 2013, 03:30:21 pm
Butan have 30 str,plate and 10if man. You need like 4 flamberge hits to kill him.

40 strength, 13 IF and a shit-ton of armor :D
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Teeth on May 16, 2013, 03:01:34 pm
Wait, when did the Longsword get +1 cut? One of the last weapons that needed a buff.

Quote from: Sparvico on May 13, 2013, 06:03:02 am
Pretty much makes Great Swords pointless. Just get a Longsword if you want fast and a bit shorter, or a Sword of War, which is the great swords non-retarded brother.
What stats do not portray though, is the difference between the Sword of War being a fat bulky blade and the Great Sword being very thin. This matters a lot for people's ability to follow feints and block your weapon.  I would go as far to say that there is an actual speed difference between the two. Great Sword just feels much faster, similar to the way a German feels faster than a Danish. Perhaps it is just psychological, regardless, people block a Sword of War way better than they do a Great Sword.

Same thing with KAS and NCS. I prefer the Danish over the German, the NCS over the KAS, the Sword of War over the Great Sword when it comes to stats. When it comes to actual ingame performance and feel, I prefer the other.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Angellore on May 16, 2013, 03:24:14 pm
Quote from: Teeth on May 16, 2013, 03:01:34 pm
Wait, when did the Longsword get +1 cut? One of the last weapons that needed a buff.

With other 2h weapons buff. They buffed 2h weapons like 3-4 months ago?
All two handed axes got huge buff in that patch (+3 damage!).
Other 2h weapons got buffed as well (Longsword, Katana, Heavy Bastard Sword, Bastard Sword, Dadao, Miaodao, Two Handed Sword, Heavy Great Sword).
Only the last one deserved to be buffed imo, I don't really understand why they buffed so many 2h weapons.
My guess is, buffing 2h weapons while nerfing everthing else makes most people on forum happy. No one cares about the minority in cRPG.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kajia on May 16, 2013, 04:41:04 pm
I am normally a huge fan and advokate of realism, but you have to admit, that this game (cRPG) is not meant for simulating that. I had to learn that too everytime I brought this up.
If you want semi-realism, it would be easier to go and try "Vikingr" or "1257 a.d.". Both of these mods take a very good step towards realism, and Vikingr is even multiplayer and quite fun.

Because, in fact, swords were weapons for rich people (a lot of metal, a lot of production time, very very expensive, even the simpler versions), not common for the common man, and longswords even less. They were sidearm for cav (because of length, and because you can use it as a lever and wedge with both hands against plate-wearing folks.
Armor penetration is of course not that easy, but I personally believe it wasn't always necessary, because most people back then couldn't afford more than a gambeson or something similar. And even that was worth a fortune.

Now, what we COULD do in cRPG, is getting the prices up like crazy for everything with more metal than a spear and nerfing every speed value to a low standard. Then, when even having a sword and a chainmail or something is considered wealth, you can start talking about cutting/not cutting and penetration physics, imho.
But this won't happen in cRPG. Maybe in M:BG, I am hoping.

Until now, my apporach for speed calculation would have been: converting the damage values to something that displays sharpness, and the speed and weight/length values to something indirectionally proportional to each other, the longer and heavier it gets, the longer you end up swinging it. maybe: swingtime = 1 / someValue * weight * (length/10) // with someValue being <1 as a global standard
BUT I really don't know that much about physics, AND I don't know how the game does it now. So this is just a sketch. Food for thought hopefully.
Title: Re: Long sword and great sword same damage?????
Post by: Kadeth on May 17, 2013, 09:06:15 am
Quote from: Teeth on May 16, 2013, 03:01:34 pm
Wait, when did the Longsword get +1 cut? One of the last weapons that needed a buff.
What stats do not portray though, is the difference between the Sword of War being a fat bulky blade and the Great Sword being very thin. This matters a lot for people's ability to follow feints and block your weapon.  I would go as far to say that there is an actual speed difference between the two. Great Sword just feels much faster, similar to the way a German feels faster than a Danish. Perhaps it is just psychological, regardless, people block a Sword of War way better than they do a Great Sword.

Same thing with KAS and NCS. I prefer the Danish over the German, the NCS over the KAS, the Sword of War over the Great Sword when it comes to stats. When it comes to actual ingame performance and feel, I prefer the other.


This is absolutely true. Stats don't always seem to accurately represent how a weapon performs in game. A weapon with slower speed rating can often seem faster because of its model and different animations.

Maybe it is psychological. Maybe some things in Warband cannot be explained :idea: