cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 01:59:44 am

Title: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 01:59:44 am
there pretty much worthless and they slow you down way too much. since i came back from a 6 month break this latest patch has rendered them useless. is the only shield worth a fuck the round rounds?
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Kamirane on April 29, 2013, 02:13:25 am
Quote from: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 01:59:44 am
there pretty much worthless and they slow you down way too much. since i came back from a 6 month break this latest patch has rendered them useless. is the only shield worth a fuck the round rounds?

sadly Kinngrim is gone. You should have asked him about Shields and its worth. Maybe he could tell u this alot better as most of us could do.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 02:55:03 am
Wait, he doesn't play anymore? Im gen 28 brah been playing for 2 years. I stated up above the only shield's worth a fuck were the round ones. Which you can still be shot around 1-2 shotted by maul crush thru. You should get hit less with adumb shield then more.  Its only getting worse. You block a maul with a 1 pound sword but huscarl just gets blasted
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Vodner on April 29, 2013, 02:59:59 am
Quote from: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 02:55:03 am
Wait, he doesn't play anymore?
Can't really blame him. There was a nerf to the steel pick (upping the str requirement to 13) that seemed to serve no real purpose beyond screwing him over.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Kamirane on April 29, 2013, 03:00:36 am
Quote from: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 02:55:03 am
Wait, he doesn't play anymore?

yes. but the reason wasnt something about the patch and balance.

I really cant understand why u think Shields are useless. They are more usefull than me!
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Gurnisson on April 29, 2013, 03:04:42 am
Quote from: Vodner on April 29, 2013, 02:59:59 am
Can't really blame him. There was a nerf to the steel pick (upping the str requirement to 13) that seemed to serve no real purpose beyond screwing him over.

Except that the strength requirement for the steel pick always was retarded, and compared to the other 1h blunt and pierce weapons, never justified having such a low requirement.

Previously you had;
Iberian Mace: 13
Warhammer: 15

Military Pick: 13
Steel Pick: 12

How did that make any sense at all? I feel sorry for him, but it was always a risk going a 12 strength build with the steel pick. I still don't understand why he didn't go back to the side sword he loved so much, which also got buffed at the same time (?)
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Shaksie on April 29, 2013, 03:59:01 am
Hahha enjoy your infamy friend!
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 09:14:47 am
He was in our ts a couple weeks ago. We were talking about it. But i didnt think he was quiting. So you dont think having 7 shield skill with a shield heavier than a great maul and constantly crushed thru while a 1.5 pound sword blocks it no problem isn't bizarre? Or how you get hit around the side even tho the shield should technically get hit first? You dont think it weird when headshots of any ranged go up and over  and down to hit your head? The weight penalty is absurd as well. I honestly dont care about infamy or fame horse shit. All im saying is you get hit less without a shield then if you had one. Also your just a kick magnet. The hilt slashing has gone up 10x the amount since wse2 as well
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Torben on April 29, 2013, 09:28:05 am
get your shit straight son
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Moncho on April 29, 2013, 09:30:56 am
What the hell are you speaking about? Are you using a buckler?
I am using MP Heavy Round and Knightly Heater and Kite Shields with 6 Shield skill, and if I get shot, it is 90% of the times my fault for not having it raised. The other 10% is either point blank crossbow shots that go through it, or my mistakes.

Maul crushthrough is a much smaller problem than a few patches ago, since they NEED to hold the overhead to have a chance to CT you, and this alllows you to try and spam them, so it is not unbalanced. Also, a shielder complaining about CT is like a 2her QQing about getting shot by archers...

About side hits, I find it annoying to see people block left swings with left blocks, but I see how it makes sense, if they get the footwork right it comes really useful. And I rarely get hit around my shield, all it takes is a little mouse movement and you are set.

It is in clusterfucks that shields really shine, they have never been intended to be elite 1v1 duelist classes (which they are not far from though, though I prefer to duel with 1h no shield), but the real beauty of being a shielder is to be on the first line of battle dancing around and drawing attention giving your teammates a big break from having to worry about blocking all the time. Pushing positions, holding them, gaining time for your teammates to backstab that pesky guy that is focused on breaking your shield, etc.

Overall, nice QQ thread, but completely disagree with you. Shields are fine. Otherwise why are there so many hoplites around? early connection and low glance chance of polestab helps, true, but I think it is the shield that really sets them apart.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 12:57:12 pm
O fuck all of you. If you think crush thru isnt bad your a fucking dope. Strategus is a fucking joke with mauls. Whats the point when you have a better chance of up blocking a maul attack with a 2 pound stick instead of a shield. What did i not get strait there with crush thru and kick magnet? Im not even going to comment on how shitty wse2 game play is. Oooo hopilites are in cause of cav and the easiness of just ganking. And the polearm stab is the quickest attack animation
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Ronin on April 29, 2013, 01:50:29 pm
Dude are you trying to farm infamy?
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Macropus on April 29, 2013, 03:42:01 pm
Was that really nesessary to create a thread for whining? You can do it at home.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 04:59:05 pm
Ya that's the problem i noticed with this community. Instead of a discussion on an anything it turns into trolling. Im stating facts and it turns into jerkoff euros always saying some horse shit internet language. I stated before i dont care aboit infamy at all. Im more disgusted about being 1 to 2 shotted by a maul with 7 shield skill. Shielders are the easiest class by far. The best shieders i know are harder when their shield breaks! Go figure. If i was "farming" infamy i wouldnt be putting facts down that make sense.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Panos on April 29, 2013, 05:03:00 pm
Quote from: Kamirane on April 29, 2013, 02:13:25 am
sadly Kinngrim is gone. You should have asked him about Shields and its worth. Maybe he could tell u this alot better as most of us could do.

His favourite weapon got nerfed and instead of trying to play/learn a new 1h weapon, he RQ`s.

qqers never win.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Gurnisson on April 29, 2013, 05:36:17 pm
Quote from: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 04:59:05 pm
Im stating facts

Quote from: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 01:59:44 am
there pretty much worthless

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 29, 2013, 05:54:55 pm
I have 4 shield skill and use a knightly heater shield (unloomed) and I love it, always have liked it.  I don't see them being useless at all (for melee or protecting from ranged).

Also, I was one of the people who commented in a suggestion thread about the steel picking being at 12 strength requirement didn't make sense.  It was significantly heavier than a lot of 1h swords that required 13 or higher strength.  I wasn't trying to fuck over kingrimm with my suggestion, it was just an obvious issue for the balance team.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Ronin on April 29, 2013, 05:59:56 pm
You might be stating facts, and I must say I do not disagree with all of them. But your writing style makes it look like whining.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Macropus on April 29, 2013, 06:14:31 pm
Quote from: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 04:59:05 pm
Ya that's the problem i noticed with this community. Instead of a discussion on an anything it turns into trolling. Im stating facts...
||
Quote from: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 12:57:12 pm
O fuck all of you. If you think crush thru isnt bad your a fucking dope
Great.

People troll you instead of discussing because there's nothing to discuss here, shielders are fine. Shield is useful - if you don't think so, play few hours without it. And if you like it, well respec to 2h then? What's the problem? Shielders also can do fine against mauls (unless you have a terribly str-oriented build like 30-9 as a shielder), and mauls aren't OP in general. All this is quite obvious for me and other people too I guess.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Phew on April 29, 2013, 06:55:34 pm
Shield skill just needs to do something besides increase durability and ranged coverage, such as:
-Improve crushthrough resistance
-Reduce bolt penetration chance
-Reduce movement speed penalty due to shield weight

Also, shield mechanics are just glitchy. Even 100+ speed shields are waaay slower to block than manual blocking, 2-handers that are like 5 degrees off center swing around your block, projectiles warp around the shield into your head, etc.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Necrorave on April 29, 2013, 07:12:29 pm
What Crpg is now

(click to show/hide)

Only solution to fix things...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: IR_Kuoin on April 29, 2013, 07:16:04 pm
Why complain about shields slowing you down, when the solution (for you) is to just get a lighter shield or completely drop it ...?
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Zanze on April 29, 2013, 07:23:58 pm
Imo, I don't see these problems much with 6 shield skill and +2 elite cav. Sure I get hit around the shield sometimes, but that is just people abusing 2h animations. Crushthrough usually isn't a problem given my shield has high res. If the attack did crushthrough my shield even a direct hit to my face would only do about 10% of my health. (Numbers taken from that full plate Occitan maul guy that runs around on battle server)
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on April 29, 2013, 07:30:31 pm
have you ever fought R4DL? he will show you how nice kite shields are.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Daniisme on April 29, 2013, 09:26:03 pm
You cry about mauls crushing through your shield.... That's only shows that you are inexperienced as shielder, wich means that all the reasons for removing shields from cRPG that you stated in your thread are stuipd and.... More stuipd.

Shut up.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 11:57:34 pm
how is it crying?  if you dont think crush thru is a fucking joke, anything you say is invalid brah. now wonder this community sucks dick. great responses. ooo speak of the devil headshoted by a thrower from a  mile away because it went up and down over my shield :[
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Moncho on April 30, 2013, 12:48:45 am
Crying about mauls crushing your shield is like cav crying because pikes rear their horses...
They are meant to be your counter, quit QQing and spam them to death... You have the range, you have the speed, all they have over you is the damage and a chance to crush through your block if they hold the attack.
and the reason you are getting trolled is, as mentioned already, your tone. You almost sound like a 2her hero crying about archery...
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Varadin on April 30, 2013, 01:10:40 am
Quote from: dreadnok on April 29, 2013, 11:57:34 pm
how is it crying?  if you dont think crush thru is a fucking joke, anything you say is invalid brah. now wonder this community sucks dick. great responses. ooo speak of the devil headshoted by a thrower from a  mile away because it went up and down over my shield :[

Learn to play you noob homo  8-)
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Teeth on April 30, 2013, 01:18:31 am
Agreed, my shield is a useless piece of crud. I only use it because it makes my spear longer. Hits pass through all the time and I still get shot a shit ton.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Penitent on April 30, 2013, 03:12:21 am
Another problem shields have is player models moving through your shield and hitting you.  When you are blocking with a shield the player model detections sometimes gets wonky and enemies can move through/past you.

I, for one, know dread has been using a shield for a very long time so we should let him our ears.

(click to show/hide)

Phew is also a veteran shield holder and had some good comments:

Quote from: Phew on April 29, 2013, 06:55:34 pm
Shield skill just needs to do something besides increase durability and ranged coverage, such as:
-Improve crushthrough resistance
-Reduce bolt penetration chance
-Reduce movement speed penalty due to shield weight

Also, shield mechanics are just glitchy. Even 100+ speed shields are waaay slower to block than manual blocking, 2-handers that are like 5 degrees off center swing around your block, projectiles warp around the shield into your head, etc.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: rufio on April 30, 2013, 03:19:06 am
Quote from: Panos on April 29, 2013, 05:03:00 pm
His favourite weapon got nerfed and instead of trying to play/learn a new 1h weapon, he RQ`s.

qqers never win.

i stll see kinngrimm on alot on siege, and i dont even play somuch enymore, hes using some onehanded axe in secondary mode.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Wingthor on April 30, 2013, 09:00:06 am
Nope. Saw him some days ago, using the steel pick again. Before that, he was using an axe in secondary mode.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Dezilagel on April 30, 2013, 10:20:19 am
Guess he hit 37 or smth then
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 30, 2013, 03:32:52 pm
Wouldn't doubt if he respecced.

There's a nice battle axe that only requires 12 strength (does 35c unloomed)
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Ronin on April 30, 2013, 04:34:46 pm
MW Broad One Handed Battle Axe, 30p in alternative mode.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 30, 2013, 04:50:06 pm
Weapons with secondary pierce mode typically aren't worth using (at least from what I've seen of calculations), they're far too low compared to the cut damage.

I thought the broad one handed battle axe (non-loomed) was 35c and 25p?

*EDIT after san's post*  Nevermind, my data is at least 6 months old
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: San on April 30, 2013, 05:03:42 pm
The secondary modes on the axes were considerably buffed. The iron war axe, for example, with 31p at +3, becomes a great close quarters sidearm that helps fill a hybrid niche of a shieldbreaker and tincan opener (don't need a fast weapon for either) without costing all that much.

Either way, shields have their pros with a few necessary drawbacks. It is easier to fight with manual block no shield due to the movement increase, but the mental stress of having to block and dodge projectiles all the time can be annoying. Shields don't do much against archers that are specifically pinpointing you, but they do help when they have multiple distractions to deal with.

Shields break fast enough for them to receive use without being overpowered, and the defensive shields are slow. You probably get as much utility from 1-4 points in shield as most other skillpoints. After that, shield skill tapers off immensely. If shield skill were useful for things other than equipment requirements and a small defensive boost (negated by picking up additional shields off the ground), it would be nice.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: rufio on May 31, 2013, 08:09:15 pm
op dous have a point thow, shields are pretty useless , specially since nudge is implemented. also if u have a shield to protect you from range you cant catch them with it either.. atleast i have a really hard time on my main with 7 athletics and a 2hander 4 shieldskill, shield usually gets broken, and the forcefield also kinda sux.. im using the heavy round shield... imo a weight revamp would be nice to give shielders some love
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 31, 2013, 08:14:12 pm
Shields are defensive/passive equipment, not offensive/attacking equipment. 
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Necrorave on May 31, 2013, 08:15:26 pm
Why are people having a serious discussion in this thread.  Create a new one please.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 02, 2013, 03:23:10 am
dude, get your facts straight on what are facts and opinions and discussions. You're messing it all up.
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: Kenouse on June 02, 2013, 09:19:11 pm
Im really sorry, but saying that Hoplites are Op or have the fastes animation is BS.
The only time they do really well, is for supporting or if ignored. On  a 1v1 situation, every idiot should be able to kill a hoplite, if they cant they suck. If im not mistaken, 1h left swing is still the fastes animation out there and even get me started on 2h stab.

For shields, i my self is only using a 3 shield skill shield, cause i only got 3 shield skill. 
Shields is still a great item to have in close quarters.. You can block 4 direction on the same time,they does brake a bit faster then they used to. My shield normally breakes when an axe pounds on it, otherwise it rarely brakes

P.S: Im a hoplite
Title: Re: they should just take shields out of the game
Post by: owens on June 03, 2013, 01:42:58 am
Been playing a lot of hoplite in AUS battle which has had good numbers lately.

Shields are great for surviving. Whether its ganks, couched lances, ranged. As a lone hoplite I can 1v1 or 1v2 a few opponents but with lots of people in a fight reach is power. A lot of people hoplite because it is better than pike and is the only way to get the reach spears deserve. Its a completely different, fun and challenging way to play.


Finally dreadnock is super bad and should feel really bad.