cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Algarn on April 14, 2013, 09:57:05 am

Title: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Algarn on April 14, 2013, 09:57:05 am
When you look at historical film , archers can draw 5 seconds their bow... In cRPG , that's 0.5 secs ...  :| Second problem , kiting is a pain and that's not really realistic ; third problem , HA are too weak if we compare to HX .

Then :

- try to remove kiting
- make archers can keep their bows drawn more than 0.5 sec lol
- buff accuracy and damages of HA ( now , that's weak , poorly accurate , and pretty expensive)

Thanks for reading
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on April 14, 2013, 10:25:30 am
the amount of HAs are balanced these days.
if you would buff them there would be alot of GTXting again.
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Algarn on April 14, 2013, 11:37:22 am
Try HA before say this. Even with loomed bow , you can hit a shit with this : the crosshair is really big and I don't make any damage
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on April 14, 2013, 12:01:10 pm
i had lvl 32 HA one time...
it wasnt quite funny at all...
but like 99% of the community hate HA and HX...keep it like it is and dont get even more players play HA
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Algarn on April 14, 2013, 01:16:39 pm
Yeah , HA/HX are annoying , but they have , as all classes , some weaknesses ( for example , an HA or HX who don't have more ammo can't really fight at melee )
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on April 14, 2013, 01:18:43 pm
HA can have 74 arrows if he wants to...thats much more then you need...
HX can have 26 steel bolts...thats enough or not?
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Arrowblood on April 14, 2013, 02:59:45 pm
When you look at historical film , archers can draw 5 seconds their bow... In cRPG , that's 0.5 secs ...  :| Second problem , kiting is a pain and that's not really realistic ; third problem , HA are too weak if we compare to HX .

Then :

- try to remove kiting
- make archers can draw their bows more than 0.5 sec lol
- buff accuracy and damages of HA ( now , that's weak , poorly accurate , and pretty expensive)

Thanks for reading
Did you forget that we have 20kg of Arrows if we use 2 quivers?

And an well trained man doesnt need 5 seconds to draw bow, not even a longbow. It is bad for a wooden bow to hold it so long.
Maybe a woman that trys to draw a 100 lbs bow.
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: GanForr on April 14, 2013, 03:30:31 pm
Maybe the problem of ranged cav is just the huge amount of ammos. Reducing them shoud force the ranged horsemen to melee, and so there will be no problem with HX at the end of the round. What do you think?

About the archers, i think that they are fine, now that there is no more absurd kiting. I would buff them, by the way, because there are so many crossbowman now, and they have no counter.
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Miwiw on April 14, 2013, 04:38:33 pm
- try to remove kiting
- make archers can draw their bows more than 0.5 sec lol
- buff accuracy and damages of HA ( now , that's weak , poorly accurate , and pretty expensive)


Yes, you need 0,5 sec for a short bow. For my long bow and 7 WM I need about 3 seconds to draw and after that my aim is screwed up again, so I usually need to draw twice to shoot once. Horn Bow is slighty better, its about 1,5-2sec drawing time, depending on WM. 0,5sec is a weird amount of time you claim there. Thats just BS.
Now that quivers with arrows became that heavy, its total bullshit that jumping while having drawn a bow is not possible. It's usually not possible to avoid being bumped by a horse, and that with ATH5+ and light armor. Keep either thing but both is annoying.
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Kafein on April 14, 2013, 06:26:51 pm
The "short" (it is really not short at all with a proper build and looms) window of good accuracy is the only thing that keeps archery relatively skillbased. Remove that and it becomes just as easy as xbows, except with a much better firing rate.

Also miwiw, do you feel archers should be able to dodge cav 24/7 ? Would it be balanced ?
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Algarn on April 14, 2013, 06:35:16 pm
Emh , I think I didn't wrote the right sentence : Archer can't maintain their bows drawn more than 0.5 second , I don't care about the time for draw the bow !! x)  I'm sorry for my bad english  :mrgreen: 
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Rumblood on April 14, 2013, 06:46:02 pm
The "short" (it is really not short at all with a proper build and looms) window of good accuracy is the only thing that keeps archery relatively skillbased. Remove that and it becomes just as easy as xbows, except with a much better firing rate.

Also miwiw, do you feel archers should be able to dodge cav 24/7 ? Would it be balanced ?

Cavalry can 100% run over archers 24/7. Do you think that is balanced?
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Gurnisson on April 14, 2013, 07:47:26 pm
Now that quivers with arrows became that heavy, its total bullshit that jumping while having drawn a bow is not possible. It's usually not possible to avoid being bumped by a horse, and that with ATH5+ and light armor. Keep either thing but both is annoying.

It's not hard dodging once horse even with 3 ath and 2 stack of bods from my experience. If I'm out in the open and there's 3 or more cav I've got almost no chance though, but that's fair. Jump shot was bullshit anyway.
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Miwiw on April 14, 2013, 10:42:39 pm
I was with light gear, my long bow and 2 stacks of bodkins. Had my bow half drawn and tried to dodge a destrier.. I didn't make it though I'm really used to that as my overall main class during the last 3 years was Archer (in native and crpg). Never experienced that. :D

Ofc I'm against the fact that anyone can easily dodge any other attack from another class. On the other hand, yes it should be very easy to dodge. It should be both.
I don't know for sure, but a month or 2 ago it was far "easier" and the ability to jump while having a bow drawn, was helping too. You know I tried to jump but was stuck to the ground, looking like a fool taking a step back...

I don't want jump shooting, never used it anyway. :) Jumping should make you stop the drawing process. But I was simply stuck there. x)
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Rumblood on April 14, 2013, 11:36:19 pm
It's not hard dodging once horse even with 3 ath and 2 stack of bods from my experience. If I'm out in the open and there's 3 or more cav I've got almost no chance though, but that's fair. Jump shot was bullshit anyway.

When was the last time you did this? You know in my experience you could helicopter spin your polearm, but that wouldn't be the case any longer would it?
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Tydeus on April 14, 2013, 11:38:34 pm
Get this shit out of my forum section!
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Ptolemy on April 15, 2013, 12:15:42 am
Try HA before say this. Even with loomed bow , you can hit a shit with this : the crosshair is really big and I don't make any damage

No... you're just a terrible HA. I do fine with my unloomed HA.
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Gurnisson on April 15, 2013, 12:26:55 am
When was the last time you did this? You know in my experience you could helicopter spin your polearm, but that wouldn't be the case any longer would it?

Few weeks back. Had 24 agility though. 18/24 lvl 30 build archer.
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Carthan on April 15, 2013, 12:27:49 am
Emh , I think I didn't wrote the right sentence : Archer can't maintain their bows drawn more than 0.5 second , I don't care about the time for draw the bow !! x)  I'm sorry for my bad english  :mrgreen:
Oh, that is different.
Yes the accuracy decreases significantly (Possibly too much) over a short duration, but I would also imagine my arms would cramp up pretty quickly and painfully if I tried it even briefly.
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Kafein on April 15, 2013, 12:55:50 am
Cavalry can 100% run over archers 24/7. Do you think that is balanced?

Archers can 100% trash cavalry at range 24/7. Do you think that is balanced ?

Furthermore, what you said is simply false right now. One or two stacks of arrows aren't going to slow you down enough to be hit by cav consistently.
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Miwiw on April 15, 2013, 01:20:18 am
Oh they do. I'm incredible slow now, but that's not the problem and I, as I said before, am fine with that. The other thing I rather doubt I was fine with, is the removing of jumping while having a bow drawn PLUS the heavy additonal weight. I don't want to shoot while jumping, I have never cared about that. But after 3 years of jumping to avoid cavalry with ANY build, this was just plain stupid today. :P
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Rumblood on April 15, 2013, 05:05:41 am
Archers can 100% trash cavalry at range 24/7. Do you think that is balanced ?

Furthermore, what you said is simply false right now. One or two stacks of arrows aren't going to slow you down enough to be hit by cav consistently.

Dude, I run over archers every day, all day. If they can't find cover, they are bump charge toast. Xbows? Yes, they can take out the horse with one shot before they are horse stomp jelly, but archers? They better just drop their bows and run for a pikeman.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Some problems of realism and gameplay for archers
Post by: Zaren on April 15, 2013, 08:05:33 am
When you look at historical film , archers can draw 5 seconds their bow... In cRPG , that's 0.5 secs ...  :| Second problem , kiting is a pain and that's not really realistic
are you seriously invoking realism as the way to decide classes......lol


If you really want realism then these things would have to added for archers.....
1.If a fully armored knight gets shot with a longbow, hes dead or at least maimed so bad that he flies off his horse and bleeds out.
2. Archers could kite since they are faster than your stupid FULLY PLATE builds which weigh a ton and no one can run in.
3.Any archer with a light build can basicly only do blunt damage to plate since those arrows cant penetrate especially when fired from small bows.

And for infantry
1.When you get slashed in the brain you are dead no continuation....and in the arm means u just lost that arm and cant use a 2hander effectively or can only use your shield/1hander depending on the arm hit.
2.You could swing that greatmaul probably 4 or 5 times before needing a break.
3.You would run rediculously slow or not at all in anything above chainmail.