cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: StuLLe on March 18, 2013, 05:49:59 pm
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When I started playing this gamethis was all about skill...and maybe your internet connection. Somehow this mutated into a spamfest over the years. I see alot of people who dont even bother to block me as an archer anymore, because my pickaxe with 40 wpf and 3 PS will glance on them anyways if they dont have the lightest armor.
I see 2H spammers even get Valor (the Valor System sux balls btw, because it so unbalanced, that I am really asking myself how this could make it in the game like that...prolly because most of the people play 2H Lolstabbers, buts thats another topic^^).
Spamming used to be punished hard, no matter if you were fighting a naked guy with a pickaxe or whatever.
I really would like to see the game turn back in that direction!!
Let me knmow what you guys think.
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You overreact bro. Unexpected spam is also the tactic and don't say it isn't unexpected because if you expected it, you would have blocked it. Also mind that someone may think, he will stun your small "tool" and then he goes for a hit when your weapon is stunned.
If you expect to stun enemy's weapon you have to attack immediately after your previous attack or the stun you've done is nearly worthless.
Shitload of stuff could be said but basically spam is anti-feint attack just as chambers are used against simple&predictable attacks. If you know your enemy, he shouldn't surprise you with any move. For example you can expect spam from Jackie :D It's usually better to fight safely in the beginning vs people you don't know but...
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ya, the title is a bit attention whoring...i admit.
But I think you got wrong what I mean. For me spam is the following. My enemy tries a hit. I block it. He immediately tries a second. So back in the days it used to be in a way, that my hit ( after I blocked his first) would land earlier than his second...except if his movement was better than mine during the second cycle.
Now, speed gain through wpf and agi seems to be that high, that the melee is not in "hit-turns" or "-cycles" anymore in some cases, because when I fight someone with a miadao, his second hit lands before my counter attack when I am not feinting of course.
As far as I know, stun is only possible with poles, or am I wrong here? Abnyway, what I am talking about has nothing to do with stun or chambering...read again:-)
the upper is the first point where the game allows spamming in my opinion.The second is the glancing on heavier armor. I am not saying that an archer should stand equal chance in a fight with an armored Knight, but that my weapon does a minimum of the damage he can deal while he can take alot more of that plus his weapon having double the lenghth of mine should be enough. in my opinion...I would love to see if the chance of glancing would be a bit reduced;-)
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So you want the game to be turn based?
SOUNDS REALLY FUN
But seriously, I like the fact that someone MIGHT be able to hit me twice quickly if they get the footwork right, keeps me on my toes, makes fights more interesting.
And stop complaining that ppl don't block your shitty pickaxe. Why would anyone block what won't hurt them?
QQ
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Weapon stun can happen any time a heavier weapon than yours is blocked by you. not just with polearms.
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they can spam like that beacuse armour is overpowered ... you can take huge amounts of armour crutch with very little penalty (~~60 body armour will still move the same speed as a shielder with ~~30 body armour)
Nerf armour nerf spam
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But seriously, I like the fact that someone MIGHT be able to hit me twice quickly if they get the footwork right, keeps me on my toes, makes fights more interesting.
Maybe you should read again what I wrote...
And stop complaining that ppl don't block your shitty pickaxe. Why would anyone block what won't hurt them?
exactly my point:D
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they can spam like that beacuse armour is overpowered ... you can take huge amounts of armour crutch with very little penalty (~~60 body armour will still move the same speed as a shielder with ~~30 body armour)
Nerf armour nerf spam
jou just hate everything that is diffrent than native is
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ya, the title is a bit attention whoring...i admit.
But I think you got wrong what I mean. For me spam is the following. My enemy tries a hit. I block it. He immediately tries a second. So back in the days it used to be in a way, that my hit ( after I blocked his first) would land earlier than his second...except if his movement was better than mine during the second cycle.
Now, speed gain through wpf and agi seems to be that high, that the melee is not in "hit-turns" or "-cycles" anymore in some cases, because when I fight someone with a miadao, his second hit lands before my counter attack when I am not feinting of course.
As far as I know, stun is only possible with poles, or am I wrong here? Abnyway, what I am talking about has nothing to do with stun or chambering...read again:-)
the upper is the first point where the game allows spamming in my opinion.The second is the glancing on heavier armor. I am not saying that an archer should stand equal chance in a fight with an armored Knight, but that my weapon does a minimum of the damage he can deal while he can take alot more of that plus his weapon having double the lenghth of mine should be enough. in my opinion...I would love to see if the chance of glancing would be a bit reduced;-)
Ok I guess I understood you better this time, also I was talking about stun of the block of blocking person, not about polestun or other stun.
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Pickaxe has 1.2 weight. A big axe or Greatsword got about double that amount, so you might experience some short stun without even involving polestun. And many people are able to cause a second hit during that time. :)
What I don't understand, are those 2h that always look on the ground while fighting and then "spamming" the shit out of me. :D
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It's a whole different game since you left, StuLLe my friend.
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I've been playing with a Mw Katana for almost every gen. now and pretty much never gone under 18 agility, my attacks are faster than normal players but spam is my one way of defending myself when I wear low tier armor with low protection, since I go with high agility, even and archer could easily land two head-blows on me with a pickaxe and I would be dead :D
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Why the fuck are u still using a pickaxe when we have some nice 0 slot swords now? Also I would hope that someone who is a pure melee build with more than double ur melee prof would be able to swing faster.
You wanna be able to be decent in melee as an archer? Get some more prof and drop the shitty pickaxe.
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It's a whole different game since you left, StuLLe my friend.
indeed karasu, it seems to be:-) Question is, do you think it has improved?
Why the fuck are u still using a pickaxe when we have some nice 0 slot swords now? Also I would hope that someone who is a pure melee build with more than double ur melee prof would be able to swing faster.
You wanna be able to be decent in melee as an archer? Get some more prof and drop the shitty pickaxe.
Well, I was going with a Hornbow and an MW Langes Messer before, and even then I glanced all the fuckin time (also I lost 250 k to upkeep with that gear so I had to change spec due to beeing broke)...but for the 0 slot one hand swords...they glance even more than the pickaxe on heavy armor since they do cut dmg .
I dunno if you ever played archery, but as it is now you definetely need your prof there. I believe, spending any points on melee is a commitment, not many archers even want to do. For me, under 160 wpf my arrows fly anywhere, but not where I want them to:-) But maybe thats just me.
Maybe I have have just been out for too long and need to adapt I guess, if I am the only one who feels that way.
Cheers for ya input anyways.
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Maybe I have have just been out for too long and need to adapt I guess, if I am the only one who feels that way.
Cheers for ya input anyways.
Its not you, its the problem most archers are facing everyday.
Either you get enough archery WPF to be able to shoot straight but pay the price by getting outspammed by agi-melees and glance on str/armor-melees, or you get enough melee wpf/ps to be competitive in melee but cant in turn shoot straight with your bow. Combining decent ( not outstanding ) archery and melee abilities into one build is hardly possible without a high level char.
I dunno if you ever played archery, but as it is now you definetely need your prof there.
No, most people that complain about archery still havent tried it themselves. I dont know how long you were missing but I am sure that was not any different when you were around. Archery still rage class no. 1 :wink:
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jou just hate everything that is diffrent than native is
that's not true ... i like the way the server list loads faster with WSE2. that's not in native.
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indeed karasu, it seems to be:-) Question is, do you think it has improved?
Well, I was going with a Hornbow and an MW Langes Messer before, and even then I glanced all the fuckin time (also I lost 250 k to upkeep with that gear so I had to change spec due to beeing broke)...but for the 0 slot one hand swords...they glance even more than the pickaxe on heavy armor since they do cut dmg .
I dunno if you ever played archery, but as it is now you definetely need your prof there. I believe, spending any points on melee is a commitment, not many archers even want to do. For me, under 160 wpf my arrows fly anywhere, but not where I want them to:-) But maybe thats just me.
Maybe I have have just been out for too long and need to adapt I guess, if I am the only one who feels that way.
Cheers for ya input anyways.
I use a longbow and a Broad short sword. I have 147 archer, 72 one handed and 6 pw. im still able to hit my targets with my bow and i can kill anything except someone in Milanese plate in melee. u are obviously doing somthing wrong if ur glancing with a pierce wep
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Well, I was going with a Hornbow and an MW Langes Messer before, and even then I glanced all the fuckin time (also I lost 250 k to upkeep with that gear so I had to change spec due to beeing broke)...but for the 0 slot one hand swords...they glance even more than the pickaxe on heavy armor since they do cut dmg .
I dunno if you ever played archery, but as it is now you definetely need your prof there. I believe, spending any points on melee is a commitment, not many archers even want to do. For me, under 160 wpf my arrows fly anywhere, but not where I want them to:-) But maybe thats just me.
Maybe I have have just been out for too long and need to adapt I guess, if I am the only one who feels that way.
Cheers for ya input anyways.
Atm I'm 18/15. WPF split evenly between 1h and archery, about 110ish in each.
I'm not gonna be more accurate that super pure archers, but think, who's my main target? people standing still on their own, or large bodies such as mass players or cav?
The latter, hence I don't need a pin sized reticule. And when they too close, 6PS and broad short sword is perfect.
Pure archer is dead. Be like xbows have been forever, hybrid a little. It'll pay off
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. Combining decent ( not outstanding ) archery and melee abilities into one build is hardly possible without a high level char.
Try this build then
18 STR
18 AGI
archery 150
1 handed 50
WM 6
PS 6
IR 5
ATH 6
PD 6
This build is for the level 30 , whith this , you can shoot decently , and be a pain for mega agi whores my old friends :)
But yeah , XyNox, is right , that's hard for archers beginners
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they can spam like that beacuse armour is overpowered ... you can take huge amounts of armour crutch with very little penalty (~~60 body armour will still move the same speed as a shielder with ~~30 body armour)
Nerf armour nerf spam
^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Try this build then
18 STR
18 AGI
archery 150
1 handed 50
WM 6
PS 6
IR 5
ATH 6
PD 6
This build is for the level 30 , whith this , you can shoot decently , and be a pain for mega agi whores my old friends :)
But yeah , XyNox, is right , that's hard for archers beginners
I had that build once with about 80 2h wpf and rest in archery if i recall correctly and it was quite devastating in melee with a military sickle 2h mode. With the new nerfs however, I dont even wanna imagine how gimped your footwork is with all the weight and just 18 agi/6 ath. Also 140 ish wpf in archery makes headshots a game of chance at longer ranges and I sure would like to hit what I am aiming at.
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I had that build once with about 80 2h wpf and rest in archery if i recall correctly and it was quite devastating in melee with a military sickle 2h mode. With the new nerfs however, I dont even wanna imagine how gimped your footwork is with all the weight and just 18 agi/6 ath. Also 140 ish wpf in archery makes headshots a game of chance at longer ranges and I sure would like to hit what I am aiming at.
yea footwork is gimped as hell but, thats why we always have the option to drop our bow and pick it up latr
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I exploit spam.
Please nerf spam.
Spam is silly.
I enrage when I am spammed.
Spam is easy.
Spam.
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Try this build then
18 STR
18 AGI
archery 150
1 handed 50
WM 6
PS 6
IR 5
ATH 6
PD 6
This build is for the level 30 , whith this , you can shoot decently , and be a pain for mega agi whores my old friends :)
But yeah , XyNox, is right , that's hard for archers beginners
Exactly what I use except that I have 5 ath and 6 shield and No if :)
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I used this build with an heavy armor (brigandine over aketon), now , I'm a fucking heavy archer with 6 PS and I'll have soon (20 m lol) 8 in WM !!!! And when you are level 33 , you feel powerful and you kill ninjas for breakfast .
I want to say an other thing in this topic : XyNox , you are my heroooo !!! :D
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Just a fact, I don't see people spamming with characters that can't take a serious beating, hence why I think it is as valid as a playstyle as intentionally making your horse soak hits because you know it won't die.
Spam is not a "clever tactic". People do it because they can. Can't handle holds ? Spam. Can't handle feints ? Spam. Annoyed by players that need to use their w key to be in range ? Backpedal (or jump) and spam. Want to make chamberblocks ? Spam. Got a fast 1h build and daddy problems ? Spam (although it only works with left swings). Can't handle people that dare hit you first when you spam ? Hiltslash.
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_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| - Long War Axe | old | new |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty | 15 | 14 |
| speed rating | 92 | 94 |
| swing damage 44 cut | 42 cut |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
thats how devs see balance facepalm
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_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| - Long War Axe | old | new |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty | 15 | 14 |
| speed rating | 92 | 94 |
| swing damage 44 cut | 42 cut |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|
thats how devs see balance facepalm
2 speed - 2 in cut damage, I wouldn't say no to that if it happened to the Katana :P
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Spam > feints and slow people
Holds > spam
feints > spam
blocking > holds
Spam only works against good players if you catch them offguard or "flatfooted". A good dueller will fucking school ya if you try to spam him straight up. Believe me i have tried (and i keep trying xD)
Holds and feints are alot more reliable.
btw stop spamming arrows yo
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Spam > feints and slow people
Holds > spam
feints > spam
blocking > holds
Spam only works against good players if you catch them offguard or "flatfooted". A good dueller will fucking school ya if you try to spam him straight up. Believe me i have tried (and i keep trying xD)
Holds and feints are alot more reliable.
btw stop spamming arrows yo
Did u try with a pickaxe and archer spec?:D
Anyway, i was a bit fast with this thread, should ve checked out the new 0 slot weps before making it. feels alot better with a short sword:D thx for that tips!
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Spam > feints and slow people
Holds > spam
feints > spam
blocking > holds
Spam only works against good players if you catch them offguard or "flatfooted". A good dueller will fucking school ya if you try to spam him straight up. Believe me i have tried (and i keep trying xD)
Holds and feints are alot more reliable.
btw stop spamming arrows yo
The sad thing with spam is that it forces others to just block and attack immediately, anything else (and even that if s key or hiltslash) being potentially a risk. That is part of the reason combats feel slow. Spam gives the advantage to the defensive player, as offensive styles are more susceptible to being catched doing a hold/feint.
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I personally prefer the "spam if possible" route being ready to block if the enemy's swing is primed first. Doesn't it make sense that you try to hit the enemy before he hits you?
Also if someone is spamming you, it makes it very hard to feint if they aren't attempting to block.
I just don't see the validity of complaining about someone's playstyle. If someone is getting the best of you with their "spam" then they are doing something right. Or more likely, you're doing something wrong.
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People spam more now because the game has been dumbed down alot and your average player now can block most attacks, including feints, chambers etc. So when all else fails .... spam
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Do i see an archer raging over his melee wep not being good enough? xD
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On first page I see error of OP: agi doesnt increase swingspeed bro.
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Buff chamberblocking -> less spam
right now trying to chamberblock those fast 2h weapons or 1h leftswing is fucking difficult, kinda random and absolutely not worth it.. succes rate is maybe 33% (with good ping and 2 years of daily practice..) but they block more than 50% of the successfull chambers anyway..
And bring back old armor/soak values already.
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2 speed - 2 in cut damage, I wouldn't say no to that if it happened to the Katana :P
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Buff chamberblocking -> less spam
right now trying to chamberblock those fast 2h weapons or 1h leftswing is fucking difficult, kinda random and absolutely not worth it.. succes rate is maybe 33% (with good ping and 2 years of daily practice..) but they block more than 50% of the successfull chambers anyway..
And bring back old armor/soak values already.
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Buff chamberblocking -> less spam
right now trying to chamberblock those fast 2h weapons or 1h leftswing is fucking difficult, kinda random and absolutely not worth it.. succes rate is maybe 33% (with good ping and 2 years of daily practice..) but they block more than 50% of the successfull chambers anyway..
And bring back old armor/soak values already.
Lol no, chamberblocking is part of the problem to begin with.
I just don't see the validity of complaining about someone's playstyle. If someone is getting the best of you with their "spam" then they are doing something right. Or more likely, you're doing something wrong.
I wouldn't say they are doing something right. If you happen to spam and be unlucky, your opponent attacks straight and you likely get hit. Which is why spam is closer to a gamble rather than a solid long term playstyle. Also spamming advantages the person that can take more hits from the other guy before dying, because only a fraction of second (often below usual ping) makes the difference between hitting and being hit and as such nobody can be actually consistent at spamming "better". In a sense, a platecrutch STR stacker makes the right move by spamming because that means pushing his own statistical advantage.
Of course, not blocking in time is an error. But this pushes players to be overly conservative and slows down combat.
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Spam is viable.
//Thread
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Define spam :wink:
There are many moves that may look like spam, hiltslash, double attack (left left 1h), over head to right hoping for a stun on the enemy weapon etc.i dont consider these spam unless a guy just all out attacks non stop or repeatedly tries to hilt slash.
If i double attack and the other guy doesnt block either then im just going to hit again, there is a difference between being spammed and failing to block anything :D
What do you guys consider spam?
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I find it much harder to fight 1vs1 than fighting 1vs2. Because most players block so well, and then i get impatient, and try to spam and then i die.
But with several opponents you can bounce around and make them trip over each other, fucks up their timing too.
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Lol no, chamberblocking is part of the problem to begin with.
explain that to me plz. There are maybe 5% of the players who try to chamber in a fight at all.. I get chamberblocked maybe 1-2 times per hour
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The sad thing with spam is that it forces others to just block and attack immediately, anything else (and even that if s key or hiltslash) being potentially a risk. That is part of the reason combats feel slow. Spam gives the advantage to the defensive player, as offensive styles are more susceptible to being catched doing a hold/feint.
Kafein, you are like a broken tape. Reset, pls.
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indeed karasu, it seems to be:-) Question is, do you think it has improved?
In some aspects. But the fun factor of the mod is slowly disappearing. There's nothing unique anymore without being gimped to the bone.
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Kafein, you are like a broken tape. Reset, pls.
You get that impression because you read the forums a lot. I spread my message everywhere so everybody reads it :lol:
But yes I can conceive it may be aggravating when you read the same thing three times.
explain that to me plz. There are maybe 5% of the players who try to chamber in a fight at all.. I get chamberblocked maybe 1-2 times per hour
A failed chamberblock is exactly like spam, that's why. Also, because chamberblocking is the least effective way of dealing with spam. Why not block, or even just attack at your turn faster ? I don't get chamberblocked often either (and even more rarely do I get chamberblocked intentionally, that happens maybe once a week), but it is nevertheless very close to base spam and can't really counter it better than safer countermeasures.
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spam is coolio.
Hei, its really nobody elses fault but yours if you fall for simple spamming attacks.
Some blame the game for it...most will call the spammer gay....but everybody should just stfu and deal with it!
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A failed chamberblock is exactly like spam, that's why. Also, because chamberblocking is the least effective way of dealing with spam. Why not block, or even just attack at your turn faster ? I don't get chamberblocked often either (and even more rarely do I get chamberblocked intentionally, that happens maybe once a week), but it is nevertheless very close to base spam and can't really counter it better than safer countermeasures.
When you try to chamberblock and fail you get hit - nothing else.
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If you look like an archer, and wield a pickaxe, most meleist will laugh and relax their playstyle and just swing wildly, that is a certainty.
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Weapon stun can happen any time a heavier weapon than yours is blocked by you. not just with polearms.
Block bar mace with long espada and 90 ping then try to get a hit off, ridiculous but I guess realistic.