cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Tovi on March 12, 2013, 10:19:40 am

Title: Shield Bash
Post by: Tovi on March 12, 2013, 10:19:40 am
I really like the shield bashing system in the DTV servers. And I'd like to have it in battle and siege.
I would just nerf the power of the jump, wich is too trolling. A short stun (like the kick) would be enough.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: XyNox on March 12, 2013, 11:18:28 am
It is basicly an unblockable insta kick WHILE having your shield up that grants you a free hit, thus way to easy to land. Imagine getting bashed -> hit -> knockdown by blunt -> hit -> kicked -> hit -> bashed -> hit

Oh the rage
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Malaclypse on March 12, 2013, 11:32:16 am
It is basicly an unblockable insta kick WHILE having your shield up that grants you a free hit, thus way to easy to land. Imagine getting bashed -> hit -> knockdown by blunt -> hit -> kicked -> hit -> bashed -> hit

Oh the rage

Well, if you miss the bash you're open to a hit during the animation, and high strength non-shield melee have a pretty powerful nudge of their own it seems like (block + v).

Both would prob be IMBA, especially in siege.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: XyNox on March 12, 2013, 11:56:59 am
Well, if you miss the bash you're open to a hit during the animation, and high strength non-shield melee have a pretty powerful nudge of their own it seems like (block + v).

Both would prob be IMBA, especially in siege.

The problem I see with shield bash in its current form is that it is instant and does not root you in place. Kicks need at least some timing and anticipation to pull off but the very exact moment you press V the nudge/bash is already done. You could simply turtle-facehug while keeping in mind to dodge kicks, then press V when the time is right.

Even if a delay gets added, knockback effect gets toned down and bash recovery time gets increased etc. to make it more suitable for competitive gameplay, I still dont believe shielders are a weak class right now that need yet another tool to suppress the enemy, nor are there too few shielders on the field in the present state.

Granted, it may be historical accurate and really looks like fun new toy but in this case I'd say it comes at the cost of balance. If shielders could only shieldbash other shielders however who have their shield up as well, to prevent those 3 minute-hold-RMB-as-long-as-you-can-shielder-duels, that MAYBE might be a good thing.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Tovi on March 12, 2013, 03:25:42 pm
But the way it push the enemy, now, doesn't allow you to strike him just after.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Tzar on March 13, 2013, 10:31:40 am
Gief us shield bash plox  :D
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Necrorave on March 13, 2013, 04:59:34 pm
I do not like the idea of Shield bash from a having it myself perspective.  If I was holding a shield up and pushed a button that I expected to do one thing and it instead did something else it would just cause a lot of problems with timing for me. 

Side note: Jumping with a shield is very useful.  So never take that away.  (An archer inside a fence, jump over the fence while blocking)
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Duster on March 13, 2013, 05:06:25 pm
Simple solution, make it block able?
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Haboe on March 13, 2013, 06:55:09 pm
I have huge trouble getting that free hit after my shield bash... Usually the bot is blocking by the time i reach him. So its less effective then a kick, where on succes you do get that instant hit.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 13, 2013, 06:56:48 pm
I have huge trouble getting that free hit after my shield bash... Usually the bot is blocking by the time i reach him. So its less effective then a kick, where on succes you do get that instant hit.
You're not supposed to get a free hit after the bash, the nudges (and bashes) aren't meant to be for free hits.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on March 14, 2013, 04:19:17 am
It is basicly an unblockable insta kick WHILE having your shield up that grants you a free hit, thus way to easy to land. Imagine getting bashed -> hit -> knockdown by blunt -> hit -> kicked -> hit -> bashed -> hit

Oh the rage

And your point is...?

So, shielders would have the advantage at closequarters? Scary thought isn't it, but you can merely kick spam them like you can do already. Or how about that overhead maul attack that can't be countered other than sidesteping just in time.....oh wait, they turned with you and hit your ankle.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Carthan on March 14, 2013, 05:36:57 am
Well, since everyone can nudge why not just nudge them if they get to close?
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Andy on March 14, 2013, 05:55:27 am
1) Add sheild bash to all gamemodes.
2) All non-sheilders rage for a week or so.
3) They get over it.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Tovi on March 14, 2013, 09:06:24 am
Maulers have a free hit after a stun. And it's often a free kill.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Paul on March 14, 2013, 09:49:04 am
The nudge/shield bash we have now is just a quick experiment I have done some time ago. There are some limitations that make it pretty bad. So I can't adjust the ground friction a player has for a good looking knockback (for example after a shield push) effect. Instead I have to throw him in an arc which looks silly.
Also the hit detection is very simple and instantaneous, thus the short range.

Here the different types and effects:

Shield:

Without holding block or attack: Shield Bash
Attack with the edge of the shield. Does the best damage(influenced by str+shield skill, also enemy armor) but has low knockback.

Holding attack: Shield Backhand
Right to left swing with the shield. Has lower damage but gives a side knockback to the victim.

Holding block: Shield Push
Pushes the enemy away without staggering him. Does the lowest amout of damage but has great knockback.


No shield(Nudge):

Without holding block or attack: Low Left Hook
Very quick, causes a short stagger, does medium damage(depending on str, gauntlet weight and enemy armor) and 1h without shield can knockdown an attacking backpaddler with it.

With holding attack: Left Straight
While having a medium duration, it does the most damage and causes the longest stagger. It can knockdown someone who is kicking.

With holding block: Shove
Has a long duration while only causing a medium stagger, this moves strong point is the knockback effect. It does the least damage.


This is how it works at the moment. If anyone got suggestions how to change the moves and effects, post it.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Kafein on March 14, 2013, 10:53:38 am
Without holding block or attack: Low Left Hook
Very quick, causes a short stagger, does medium damage(depending on str, gauntlet weight and enemy armor) and 1h without shield can knockdown an attacking backpaddler with it.

Is the range long enough to reach backpedallers ?
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 14, 2013, 10:56:26 am
Is the range long enough to reach backpedallers ?
You can move while hitting, so sorta.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: kinngrimm on March 14, 2013, 01:48:01 pm
(click to show/hide)
holy shit so many different attack types ... this will take ages to get used to(at least for me  :( )
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on March 14, 2013, 07:11:41 pm
The nudge/shield bash we have now is just a quick experiment I have done some time ago. There are some limitations that make it pretty bad. So I can't adjust the ground friction a player has for a good looking knockback (for example after a shield push) effect. Instead I have to throw him in an arc which looks silly.
Also the hit detection is very simple and instantaneous, thus the short range.

Here the different types and effects:

Shield:

Without holding block or attack: Shield Bash
Attack with the edge of the shield. Does the best damage(influenced by str+shield skill, also enemy armor) but has low knockback.

Holding attack: Shield Backhand
Right to left swing with the shield. Has lower damage but gives a side knockback to the victim.

Holding block: Shield Push
Pushes the enemy away without staggering him. Does the lowest amout of damage but has great knockback.


No shield(Nudge):

Without holding block or attack: Low Left Hook
Very quick, causes a short stagger, does medium damage(depending on str, gauntlet weight and enemy armor) and 1h without shield can knockdown an attacking backpaddler with it.

With holding attack: Left Straight
While having a medium duration, it does the most damage and causes the longest stagger. It can knockdown someone who is kicking.

With holding block: Shove
Has a long duration while only causing a medium stagger, this moves strong point is the knockback effect. It does the least damage.


This is how it works at the moment. If anyone got suggestions how to change the moves and effects, post it.

Awesome ideas. Too complex, mount and blade is such a great game because of how simple the fighting is. Perhaps just two types of attacks, withought blocking and with using the same key.
Title: Re: Shield Bash
Post by: XyNox on March 14, 2013, 07:56:48 pm
And your point is...?

So, shielders would have the advantage at closequarters? Scary thought isn't it, but you can merely kick spam them like you can do already. Or how about that overhead maul attack that can't be countered other than sidesteping just in time.....oh wait, they turned with you and hit your ankle.

My point is exactly what I stated. Its basicly an unblockable kick that comes without any delay or movement restrictions WHILE letting you shield any oncoming attacks. No to little timing or anticipation is needed to land it successfully. Maybe you should go to dtv/rageball and try out yourself how easy it is to use instead of hopping in here writing comments in a huffy way.