cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Complexx on March 11, 2013, 11:32:19 pm
Title: Archer super mode
Post by: Complexx on March 11, 2013, 11:32:19 pm
New mode for archers. It would be nice if there would be possible for some subclase for archers to be able to do what this guy can do (bottom link), and how they have really fight back in the days with archers :)
http://www.wimp.com/forgottenarchery/
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Rumblood on March 11, 2013, 11:34:31 pm
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Penguin on March 12, 2013, 12:09:53 am
So running backwards, shooting 3 arrows per second. Jumping and falling down, getting off an arrow. Sounds good to me.
In all honesty, I actually wouldn't mind an archer rapid fire mode (let's say he gets 3-5 arrows in his hand) at the expense of a slow cool down similar to couch levels. Of course this would reduce damage, because he's not pulling down all the way, and it would also only be capable with the shorter bows.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Miwiw on March 12, 2013, 04:22:59 pm
As a pole-user i hate archers.... But as someone who studies history and frankly finds that video awesome i wouldnt mind seeing this, even if it rapes me every time. Archery gets nerfed for game reasons... But in history archery is OP :P Ask the knights at Agincourt
At agincourt we raped the horses not the men with arrows. By we I mean archers. By archers I mean: Big lads, strong lads, with big manly bows (no little crapanese horsebows here pls thanks). Then we killed the dismounted knights with mauls and daggers cause they tried to run through mud. The French were stupid and overconfident that day. Same at crecy. And potiers. If they had employed their mercenaries well and given them the TIME to fight, probably today we would say "Crossbows were OP, just ask the english at agincourt". But since crossbows have a lower rate of fire, they need TIME to do damage to archer formations. They had pavises tho, if the French had allowed them time to get into range, get their pavises up and actually get a shooting match on, the combination of having cover and the english being massed on those low hills would have spelt death for the english.
But thats besides the point: That guy can shoot fast, but damage would be very low, and that action is unsustainable: the wear of your fingers, bowstring and forarm would be immense, and the muscle strain would quickly reduce the archer to less that fighting fit.
Would be good if this was usuable ONCE per spawn, or had a 30 sec cooldown or something, and massively reduced accuracy and dmg to represent the way you must only draw a short distance and release from below shoulders...
But dont forget: The french WON the 100 years war, not the english.
EDIT: also, this method would seem very good. I mean, there is limited footage that allows me to see his fingers as he fires, but if this is 100% real, I need to train more cause that guy shames me and my crpg char. Also, bring back jump shooting! It was lol and fun. Anyway, historical note (ish): While that may be possible, it is not tactically a realistic solution to massed charges: no guarantee a line of ppl shooting like that will stop a charge, although it might scare them away! But the massed longbows of the english, although not pinpoint, were accurate enough to fire into enemy formations from 200 yards away: ANYTHING without armor on would be getting hit before you can even make out the faces of the enemy, crpg (warband) does its best to give everyone a class to play in battle, but remember real world battles would tens or even hundreds of thousands of men: if you have 100k men charging at you, its important to start firing as soon as possible, so you need the most possible range, so in massive battles: full draw and lots of range important, this arrow spam looks cool but tactically it is not reliable.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: enigmatic_stranger on March 12, 2013, 05:10:11 pm
This is archer super mode:
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Matey on March 13, 2013, 09:58:37 am
gief chu-ko-nu too
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: XyNox on March 13, 2013, 05:18:00 pm
... If they had employed their mercenaries well and given them the TIME to fight, probably today we would say "Crossbows were OP, just ask the english at agincourt". But since crossbows have a lower rate of fire, they need TIME to do damage to archer formations. They had pavises tho, if the French had allowed them time to get into range, get their pavises up and actually get a shooting match on, the combination of having cover and the english being massed on those low hills would have spelt death for the english.
Exaclty like in cRPG. Instead of staying back so ranged can unleash their payload without having to bother about teammates getting in the way, melees just charge in and block 90 % of the hits their ranged teammates could potentially land.
We learn: Melee players are all frenchies :lol:
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Joker86 on March 13, 2013, 05:29:27 pm
Exaclty like in cRPG. Instead of staying back so ranged can unleash their payload without having to bother about teammates getting in the way, melees just charge in and block 90 % of the hits their ranged teammates could potentially land.
We learn: Melee players are all frenchies :lol:
Oh sorry. And I retard always equipped a melee weapon to fight by myself. Instead I should just have equipped the applause hands and clapped politely while watching the archers play the game.
,|,, :P ,,|,
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: XyNox on March 13, 2013, 05:35:16 pm
Oh sorry. And I retard always equipped a melee weapon to fight by myself. Instead I should just have equipped the applause hands and clapped politely while watching the archers play the game.
,|,, :P ,,|,
Finally someone got it :lol:
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Joker86 on March 13, 2013, 05:54:45 pm
Call me old fashioned, but i never do a job when i can find someone else to do it for me xP if a gang of archers can kill all the enemies for me then i'll go put the kettle on, it is the British way.
I always thought it's the French way... :?
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: LordRichrich on March 13, 2013, 05:55:28 pm
Oh sorry. And I retard always equipped a melee weapon to fight by myself. Instead I should just have equipped the applause hands and clapped politely while watching the archers play the game.
,|,, :P ,,|,
Doesn't the TP stand for team player? :P So surely, you use all the advantages your team has to offer? Such as your ranged weakening the enemy before they close :P
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: NuberT on March 13, 2013, 05:58:21 pm
would be super awesome, put 5 archers on one spot and you got a minigun..
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: XyNox on March 13, 2013, 06:10:26 pm
Well, on a serious note, I dont ask melee players to stop playing so ranged can pewpew. But there are those situations where several ranged are targeting a group of melees and could do some reasonable damage before they get in melee range. Usually in a matter of seconds friendly melees charge in although the enemy is in no postion to deal any damage without having to get close first. This is not only blocking your own ranged from dealing damage effectively but also simply gives the enemy a better chance to survive/win the melee encounter. Last but not least, it leaves the ranged uncovered.
I think it would not be too much to ask the average melee player to let go of the W key for 5 seconds so you give your ranged at least a chance of scoring 1 or 2 additional hits and softening up the targets before they come close.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 13, 2013, 06:35:21 pm
I think it would not be too much to ask the average melee player to let go of the W key for 5 seconds so you give your ranged at least a chance of scoring 1 or 2 additional hits and softening up the targets before they come close.
wait people use that? I thought we only had the S key...never knew there was another movement key.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Ronin on March 13, 2013, 09:25:38 pm
I liked the horse archer trick, shooting when dehorsed or falling down. I think we can add this, HA needs an edge over HX. (Not 3 arrows at once though, only 1 shoot)
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Joker86 on March 13, 2013, 11:29:31 pm
Doesn't the TP stand for team player? :P So surely, you use all the advantages your team has to offer? Such as your ranged weakening the enemy before they close :P
Well, on a serious note, I dont ask melee players to stop playing so ranged can pewpew. But there are those situations where several ranged are targeting a group of melees and could do some reasonable damage before they get in melee range. Usually in a matter of seconds friendly melees charge in although the enemy is in no postion to deal any damage without having to get close first. This is not only blocking your own ranged from dealing damage effectively but also simply gives the enemy a better chance to survive/win the melee encounter. Last but not least, it leaves the ranged uncovered.
I think it would not be too much to ask the average melee player to let go of the W key for 5 seconds so you give your ranged at least a chance of scoring 1 or 2 additional hits and softening up the targets before they come close.
I was only fooling around. Of course I stand and wait if I see that our archers have an advantageous position and the enemy has to run through heavy fire. Especially because I don't trust all archers ;-)
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: BlindGuy on March 13, 2013, 11:34:51 pm
True, I also stand and defend the archers, cause last place I want friendly archer is behind me
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Nordwolf on March 13, 2013, 11:53:25 pm
I think exactly this type of archery was removed in a process of developing cRPG from native.... Except for the fact that in native their damage is as good as in slow(realistic!) mode in cRPG.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: XyNox on March 14, 2013, 01:10:53 am
I think exactly this type of archery was removed in a process of developing cRPG from native.... Except for the fact that in native their damage is as good as in slow(realistic!) mode in cRPG.
Well this kind of support archery, as in firing lines to soften up incoming targets would still be possible today but look what happens in an average round on EU1 ...
People might know how to block, how to use footwork and how to hiltslash now adays but when it comes to teamwork between melee and ranged we are still stuck in some premature state of evolution. People dont even seem to realize that friendly ranged close by can pretty much make them win every duel they fight, but instead of giving them a chance to sneak in a clean hit by clever movement they just spazz out like ballerinas, circling around each other at 300 rounds per minture.
Melees still complain that they get hit by friendly ranged although they dont show any sign of understanding at what they actually have to do in order not to shut down their own teammates. A team of players that would, for example be aware of where friendly ranged is located and, as a result, knows where NOT to walk to prevent intersecting with their lines of fire, would simply ROFLSTOMP any other random pub team we have right now.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 14, 2013, 01:33:05 am
Well this kind of support archery, as in firing lines to soften up incoming targets would still be possible today but look what happens in an average round on EU1 ...
People might know how to block, how to use footwork and how to hiltslash now adays but when it comes to teamwork between melee and ranged we are still stuck in some premature state of evolution. People dont even seem to realize that friendly ranged close by can pretty much make them win every duel they fight, but instead of giving them a chance to sneak in a clean hit by clever movement they just spazz out like ballerinas, circling around each other at 300 rounds per minture.
Melees still complain that they get hit by friendly ranged although they dont show any sign of understanding at what they actually have to do in order not to shut down their own teammates. A team of players that would, for example be aware of where friendly ranged is located and, as a result, knows where NOT to walk to prevent intersecting with their lines of fire, would simply ROFLSTOMP any other random pub team we have right now.
XyNox why'd you leave EU_4 so early mate?
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Ronin on March 14, 2013, 12:18:56 pm
Spoilers!
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Kafein on March 14, 2013, 01:37:13 pm
Exaclty like in cRPG. Instead of staying back so ranged can unleash their payload without having to bother about teammates getting in the way, melees just charge in and block 90 % of the hits their ranged teammates could potentially land.
We learn: Melee players are all frenchies :lol:
This is correct, but you can't really blame people for wanting to have fun...
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Ronin on March 14, 2013, 01:40:16 pm
This is correct, but you can blame people if they are destroying your fun...
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Byrdi on March 14, 2013, 02:25:05 pm
Well, on a serious note, I dont ask melee players to stop playing so ranged can pewpew. But there are those situations where several ranged are targeting a group of melees and could do some reasonable damage before they get in melee range. Usually in a matter of seconds friendly melees charge in although the enemy is in no postion to deal any damage without having to get close first. This is not only blocking your own ranged from dealing damage effectively but also simply gives the enemy a better chance to survive/win the melee encounter. Last but not least, it leaves the ranged uncovered.
I think it would not be too much to ask the average melee player to let go of the W key for 5 seconds so you give your ranged at least a chance of scoring 1 or 2 additional hits and softening up the targets before they come close.
What if we want all the kills for ourselves? Or just don't like the idea of you shooting everyone to pieces and just standing by as it happens?
Also it would be no fun for ranged if all the melee players left, then they would have noone to shoot at besides eachother... And we all now how boring ranged duels can be :D But on the other hand it would be boring without ranged, that melee server that used to be on was just one big gank fest, even though there were max 30 players.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Ronin on March 14, 2013, 02:34:43 pm
It's about gameplay and teamplay byrdi. Imagine an archer going in between you and your target just before you're about to hit.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: XyNox on March 14, 2013, 05:45:48 pm
What if we want all the kills for ourselves? Or just don't like the idea of you shooting everyone to pieces and just standing by as it happens?
Also it would be no fun for ranged if all the melee players left, then they would have noone to shoot at besides eachother... And we all now how boring ranged duels can be :D But on the other hand it would be boring without ranged, that melee server that used to be on was just one big gank fest, even though there were max 30 players.
If you want all the kills for yourself you are playing the wrong game Id say. Nor will any ranged be able to shoot a whole team "to pieces" in the current state.
The problem I am adressing is that you just cant support your teammate as ranged when they dont let you. More often than not, the only reasonable decision to make is to let your teammate die - then enjoy a clean shot. Not because of douchbaggery but because the missilespeed nerf and glitchy hitboxes make it mathematically impossible to completely eliminate the chance of hitting your teammate unless you are shooting at point blank range. So what can you do ?
- If you engage you might hit your teammate, effectively helping the enemy.
- If you dont engage you are letting your team down by one player, effectively helping the enemy.
So what do you do ? The only thing reasonable of course ... you switch to another target that is not getting meatshielded by your teammates.
With a bit of teamwork however, what is the enemy gonna do ? Imagine a smart melee and archer working together. The melee keeps in mind the relative position of his ranged buddy so he doesnt walk into his line of fire. Also the melee will roughly pay attention to when the archer has drawn his bow and is ready to fire. Options for enemy:
- If the enemy tries to use the melee player as cover, melee player instantly knows how to move in order not to meatshield the enemy from his ranged teammate -> enemy is always exposed to archer, archer has a much higher chance at scoring hits without having to cancel his attacks.
- When melee knows that the archer is about to shoot, he just holds his attack ready ( preferably greatsword stab ) and simply dances just outside of the enemies weapon reach until archer releases his arrow -> when archer hits, enemy is staggered for a sec and melee gets in a free hit.
- Enemy cant attack the archer as he will get hit in the back by melee player
- Enemy cant run away as he will get shot in the back by archer
Instawin.
This is of course a very idealised situation and will arguably not always work in big clusterfucks. However at the current state of average teamwork, even if an ideal situation like the one stated above would occure on EU1 these days, almost no melee player would give a fuck about actually using his ranged teammate to gain an advantage over his opponent.
I think you get the point. I am not saying that melees should stop playing the game so ranged can have all the fun but as its present state, ranged has to stop playing the game because melee or cav teammates are shutting them down more often than not.
So yeah, enjoy your support, dont fight it. As a result, enjoy more gametime, less time spent dead, less teamhits, more multi and more winning.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Haboe on March 14, 2013, 09:41:28 pm
The acient archery skills, were not really used in medieval times were they? There they just got a big bow, and a 3 day bootcamp on how to shoot an arrow volley :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Rumblood on March 15, 2013, 05:12:17 am
The ancient archery skills, were not really used in medieval times were they? There they just got a big xbow, and a 3 day bootcamp on how to shoot an bolt volley :mrgreen:
corrections added :wink:
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Joker86 on March 15, 2013, 01:43:08 pm
I still think that the method was not used on a regular base. It lacks accuracy and power, as most historic battles were not fought inside a gymnasium. Unless it's an emergency and the enemy is only a few meters away, I think it's still more resonable to use the whole power of a bow and shoot percisely (or to make percie volleys, which on long distance is difficult enough). And you must not forget that most medieval bows have been probably much stronger than modern bows, because people were trained their whole life to use them, and their use was more about power to penetrate armour, than about precision to win contests like nowadays "professional" archers are training for.
Armour did have a good effect against arrows, and the test in that video honestly surprised me. I guess the reasons why he could penetrate the chainmail could have been:
- the chainmail was no "real" chainmail, only something "faked" for movies or the like. It was made out of metal, but not with the needed quality. - the distance. I doubt most shots were fired on that close distance. It's a distance a trained warrior can close in easily and chop the archer to death, so they will most likely have respectfully kep more distance - the missing of a gambesson. I think it's a big difference if you want to penetrate something which has a solid background (?) or a soft one. With a padded undercoat I guess the arrow would have been more likely to rather bounce off instead of actually penetrating the rings.
We all have heared from the reports where knights after battle looked like porcupines. I am also not a fan of the theory that archers were basically useless against armored enemies, and their only use was killing their horses, because then I doubt the English would have brought so many archers with them (sometimes 2/3s of their army consisted of archers) if they did not kill enemies, but on the other hand I doubt that a half drawn bow fired from the hip will bring down any armoured enemy on the usual fighting distances for archers. I support the "arrows could penetrate enemy armour, but it was difficult"-theory. Fast firing from the hip doesn't seem to be "difficult" in that context.
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Sniger on March 15, 2013, 09:28:01 pm
of course its a dane... :)
edit:
o m g
Title: Re: Archer super mode
Post by: Sniger on March 15, 2013, 09:51:31 pm