cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Tomeusz on March 09, 2013, 09:52:25 am
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I think 1h cav is op it comparsion to spear cav. Swords do enormous dmg, because of bugged speed attitude bonus which shouldnt happen. This bonus happens even when 1h cav man swinging from side and still get bonus for speed, also swinging reach during horse "colission" animation is bugged. It should be fixed.
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revive the heavy lance a bit and lance cav will start dealing better against the 1h cav
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nerff 1 h cav, god wills it!If you have any doubts, watch royanss playing.
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I liked your red lightsaber, dear "darth junk thread creator".
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I liked your red lightsaber, dear "darth junk thread creator".
I liked your too "Count
Anyway. Reaching system and bonus dmg for speed on swords isnt fine imho. Swinging bonus is bugged.
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I liked your too "Count
Anyway. Reaching system and bonus dmg for speed on swords isnt fine imho. Swinging bonus is bugged.
Noble
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nerff 1 h cav, god wills it!If you have any doubts, watch royanss playing.
If you would take Royanss as an example, I can go and find some other players from other classes doing not worse or even better (by your means proving that their class is op), even archers.
1h cav is harder to make, (normal 18 21 or 24 15 builds makes itself on 33-34 lvl).
Only thing I can agree with - is that it's damage is really ridiculous with speed bonus.
Reduce it and you can even review lance dmg. (I mean reduce it for horsmen/vs horsemen, but I doubt it's an easy thing to do)
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It's not op, sup.
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Meh, I recently turned my stf into a 1h cav.... and that shit is just hard :( I can hardly get any kills with it.
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i don't have any problems with 1h cav untill they start using heavy horses,and heavy armors and raising shield and just bumping me.
They go straight into me and when i start swing they always bump me before my sword reach horse,or if i hit it it doesn't deal any dmg to them so they do it again.
Bump dmg is too high i die more to bumps then on 1h sword hits. it is usualy situation when i am fucked up anyway when they slash me with sword,but every time i die to bump when i fight vs infrantry. they bump me and infrantry finish me or bump kills me.
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1h cav is not OP. its just royanss who is OP...and the ghost range is not only when you are mounted...its the arabian cavalr sword...105 length seems like 110 with this sword.
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I'm curious how many people think they get killed by 1h cav when they get killed by a bastard/longsword cav instead.
Had a couple of guys asking me what 1h I was using back when I used the longsword and shield on horse.
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1h cavalry takes a lot of work to pull off successfully (I know, I did it for 3 gens). Leave it alone.
Situational awareness, use a polearm, stick with teammates, etc.
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Lance cavalry is just as good if not better than one handed cavalry. My proof is Devilize's KDR on horseback.
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Lance cavalry is just as good if not better than one handed cavalry. My proof is Devilize's KDR on horseback.
i think the same but you should compare his KDR with the one of Royanss...
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Considering all the friendly bumps going around, I'd say they're not op at all. In an 1vs1 scenario anyone with a big melee weapon has the advantage on cav, unlike my archer underdog, but that's meant to be.
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Meh, I recently turned my stf into a 1h cav.... and that shit is just hard :( I can hardly get any kills with it.
Maybe that's because you hardly have any cav experience whatsoever and you probably just suck :D. I made a 1h cav stf too and it feels ezimode.
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I'm curious how many people think they get killed by 1h cav when they get killed by a bastard/longsword cav instead.
Had a couple of guys asking me what 1h I was using back when I used the longsword and shield on horse.
Longsword with shield on horse IS 1handed cav....
Anyway, dmg is too much on 1handed cav: I once teamkilled Tommy, he was on full hp, full lordly set (brigandine, guard helmet, gauntlets), I had 5 PS, on a steppe at medium speed, he was running away from me, so hardly any speed bonus: 1 hit him, teamkill, so HALF dmg...from sideswing of long espada...
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Longsword with shield on horse IS 1handed cav....
Anyway, dmg is too much on 1handed cav: I once teamkilled Tommy, he was on full hp, full lordly set (brigandine, guard helmet, gauntlets), I had 5 PS, on a steppe at medium speed, he was running away from me, so hardly any speed bonus: 1 hit him, teamkill, so HALF dmg...from sideswing of long espada...
I guess you could argue that, although my point remains as it's still the same animations when you don't have a shield equipped.
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1h cav is not that powerful compared to lance cav...cavalry in general is just a potent class if played with skill.
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1h cav is not that powerful compared to lance cav...cavalry in general is just a potent class if played with skill.
But lance cavalry gets dominated by sword cavalry on horse.
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1h cav is not that powerful compared to lance cav...cavalry in general is just a potent class if played with skill.
1H cav has a massive damage output. It says enough when I ride full speed towards a peasant in shirt, couch him and then bump him with my champ horse right after and he gets back up again. Have also bounced on tunic over mail and kuyaks with high speed couches these last two days. Ridiculous :lol:
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I guess you could argue that, although my point remains as it's still the same animations when you don't have a shield equipped.
and that is factor that balance 2h cav, and 2h cav have much much slower animation on horesback
and have no force "wtf" field
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sooo 2h cav op?
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But lance cavalry gets dominated by sword cavalry on horse.
Have you ever played 1h cav? I have...and the one enemy I almost always avoid is lance cav.
If 1h cav has a weakness besides pikes, its lance cav. The short weapon does not lend itself well to mobile cav vs cav fights. Unless the 1h cav is really good at positioning and can stop/trap the lance cav to stay still...Lance has the advantage. 1h is great for bump+Slash, but weak on anti-cav.
I can see how a 1h cav would be good at killing peasants, cuz of the higher slash damage. But on most enemies the lance will be doing more damage. Maybe the speed modifier affects them differently though.
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A good lancer with good manuever will win against a 1h cav.
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and that is factor that balance 2h cav, and 2h cav have much much slower animation on horesback
and have no force "wtf" field
When have I talked about balance? I was just mentioning how some people confuse 2h cav with 1h cav because of the same animations.
Oh, and you still have the force "wtf" field without a shield. Seems that all blocks have a much bigger impact area when you are mounted.
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morningstar?
The damage isn't too outrageous compared to lancers, the part that is tho is the bump/swing move, where they can run directly over you and basically swing through their horse to hit you under it while you are stunned from collision and can't block.
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Have you ever played 1h cav? I have...and the one enemy I almost always avoid is lance cav.
If 1h cav has a weakness besides pikes, its lance cav. The short weapon does not lend itself well to mobile cav vs cav fights. Unless the 1h cav is really good at positioning and can stop/trap the lance cav to stay still...Lance has the advantage. 1h is great for bump+Slash, but weak on anti-cav.
I can see how a 1h cav would be good at killing peasants, cuz of the higher slash damage. But on most enemies the lance will be doing more damage. Maybe the speed modifier affects them differently though.
And unfortunately I say that once again people are bad in cRPG :rolleyes:
Ronin, maybe in native but not with cRPG lance angle nerf
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1h cav in my opinion is the hardest cav to play. I hate cav in general, although I will admit it was fun to play 1h cav for a gen. I heard that they nerfed Cav in EU and plan on moving it to NA. Which seems kinda silly to me, although it is something that cannot be avoided I guess.
As of now, I think the only thing that is unbalanced is a select few underpowered Polearms. I also think some 1h weapons need to be messed with to create more variety with 1h weapons.
Other then that. I think things are fair. (Archers arrows speed is too sluggish in my opinion, although I NEVER play archer so I wouldn't know)
PS: I am currently a 1h infantry build
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And unfortunately I say that once again people are bad in cRPG :rolleyes:
Ronin, maybe in native but not with cRPG lance angle nerf
Hmm I'm not really sure. GK_Lars is giving me very hard time with his arabian warhorse. İmpossible for me to trap him, unless he makes a mistake. But in general yes, 1h cav have the edge against lancers around 5-6-7 riding, but not at high levels of riding. After all that's my observation so far. Riding also makes lancers more fast, therefore more deadly and manueverable.
On a related note: heavy lance difficulty - 11, cav swords difficulties - 13
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Hmm I'm not really sure. GK_Lars is giving me very hard time with his arabian warhorse. İmpossible for me to trap him, unless he makes a mistake. But in general yes, 1h cav have the edge against lancers around 5-6-7 riding, but not at high levels of riding. After all that's my observation so far. Riding also makes lancers more fast, therefore more deadly and manueverable.
On a related note: heavy lance difficulty - 11, cav swords difficulties - 13
I don't mean extreme cases, there's no real point in getting more than 7 riding.
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It says enough when I ride full speed towards a peasant in shirt, couch him and then bump him with my champ horse right after and he gets back up again.
That's funny, 'cause my 12/27 char with 22 body armor mostly doesn't even get up again when you miss the couch and then just bump him... :| The only way I can survive a couch of any lance is by jumping in the direction the cav is riding, with my 9 ath taking away most of your speed bonus, and then pray the bump doesn't hit me.
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I don't mean extreme cases, there's no real point in getting more than 7 riding.
Actaully there is a point of getting more than 7. Riding is the most important skill for a cavalry, more than power strike. Besides there are people who are above lvl 30 at the moment. This is an extreme case at this moment, because people didn't discover this sweet spot yet.
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morningstar?
The damage isn't too outrageous compared to lancers, the part that is tho is the bump/swing move, where they can run directly over you and basically swing through their horse to hit you under it while you are stunned from collision and can't block.
Yeah, the morningstar seems to align perfectly with the victim's head as he is bumped to the ground. A lot of the longer horseback weapons can do this if timed right.
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Most 1h have far better reach than the morningstar, you can fuck your timing up and still hit people with ACS, this is far less true of a morningstar which requires fairly well times swings. I prefer to avoid bumping people (except teammates) whenever possible.
With regards to killing horses, lancers have couch, which 2h cav can do literally nothing about. If you do get blocked by 2h cav their is still no certainty of them killing your horse, a small amount of blocking and turning will easily save its life.
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Most 1h have far better reach than the morningstar, you can fuck your timing up and still hit people with ACS, this is far less true of a morningstar which requires fairly well times swings. I prefer to avoid bumping people (except teammates) whenever possible.
Because most 1h have 38 pierce damage at +0? Oh, right, they are swords. Which means:
Most All 1h have far worse reach than the longsword.
You shouldn't compare the morningstar one horse with the 1h swords, you should compare it with the 1h maces/picks/hammers. The best comparison is with the Military Hammer as they have pretty much the same reach. Both can be used with a shield, both fucks up armour and both looks badass. Take the morningstar if you want even more damage and a better weapon on the ground, take the hammer if you can sacrifice some damage for knockdown and better usefulness with shield when dismounted.
I often use the military hammer one horseback, and it's really good. Plays exactly the same as morningstar. True, swords are generally better, but the extra damage from the morningstar or hammer is really nice. Swords are generally better, (shortened military scythe is a beast, btw), but the shorter anti-armour weapons can still be and advantage as long as the rider knows what he is doing.
Nitpicking: "most" 1h aren't longer than the morningstar. There's a lot of short 1hs (all axes and maces, f.ex.), which pushes the average 1h reach to about 80 reach.
With regards to killing horses, lancers have couch, which 2h cav can do literally nothing about. If you do get blocked by 2h cav their is still no certainty of them killing your horse, a small amount of blocking and turning will easily save its life.
Completely agree to this, though.
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Because most 1h have 38 pierce damage at +0? Oh, right, they are swords. Which means:
Most All 1h have far worse reach than the longsword.
You shouldn't compare the morningstar one horse with the 1h swords, you should compare it with the 1h maces/picks/hammers. The best comparison is with the Military Hammer as they have pretty much the same reach. Both can be used with a shield, both fucks up armour and both looks badass. Take the morningstar if you want even more damage and a better weapon on the ground, take the hammer if you can sacrifice some damage for knockdown and better usefulness with shield when dismounted.
I often use the military hammer one horseback, and it's really good. Plays exactly the same as morningstar. True, swords are generally better, but the extra damage from the morningstar or hammer is really nice. Swords are generally better, (shortened military scythe is a beast, btw), but the shorter anti-armour weapons can still be and advantage as long as the rider knows what he is doing.
Nitpicking: "most" 1h aren't longer than the morningstar. There's a lot of short 1hs (all axes and maces, f.ex.), which pushes the average 1h reach to about 80 reach.
Completely agree to this, though.
Im generalising, but pretty much all 1h cav use 1h. The mornigstar fills a great nieche with respect to the fact it does good pierce damage, but bump slashing is far more efficient for longer weapons.
Please bear in mind the damage reduction with IIRC is around 30% for 2h weapons used on horseback, which means the MS is not quite the massive damage beast its stats imply.
The longsword does have 1 extra reach over the ACS which is nice, but when you take into account the speed/damage reduction it looses out significantly.
Also 1h cav get a shield which brings with it alot of benifits which 2h cav dont get, most notably the blocking radius
2h cav is far superior when dismounted, 1h cav is far better when on the horse.
(2h cav op)
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If you do get blocked by 2h cav their is still no certainty of them killing your horse, a small amount of blocking and turning will easily save its life.
I do not agree, blocking seems pretty useless in these situations because regardless of me blocking the swing or not, they hit the horse anyway as well, taking a shit ton of hp.
You can use a Shortened Military Scythe from horseback? :shock:
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You can use a Shortened Military Scythe from horseback? :shock:
This is what I use when I play 2h cav. Longest weapon available and 42 cut.
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like a rhodok, baby 8-)
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This is what I use when I play 2h cav. Longest weapon available and 42 cut.
Practice Longsword is the longest available.
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Blocking isn't gunna save the day, but it can save your life. Whenever I end up in a slow speed cav fight with 1h/2h cav I will always block. If your horse is dieing in one hit stop using a girly light horse and get a proper horse, I use warhorse cos I'm smart.
In my very biased opinion 1h/2h cav need some way of fighting lancer cav else they would forever be screwed. Lance angle nerf made it far easier for 1h/2h cav, but the couching will still gives lancers an advantage over them as well as the reach of lances in a head on charge.
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nerff 1 h cav, god wills it!If you have any doubts, watch royanss playing.
Sorry Latviano but Lizardman is a lot better player than royanss when it comes to 1h cav, It`s been a long time since he played that class but goddamn , lizzy had a natural talent with that class, and keep in mind that he was playing with a destrier and not an arabian horse.
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Im generalising, but pretty much all 1h cav use 1h. The mornigstar fills a great nieche with respect to the fact it does good pierce damage, but bump slashing is far more efficient for longer weapons.
All 1h cav use 1h? Thanks captain obvious! :P
And look, I do know that longer weapons are the best for slash-cav, but I'm also saying that the longest swingable weapons are the 2h ones (ignoring HB/LHB). Longsword, shortened mil. scythe, etc. Just because you are using a short 2h on horse, doesn't mean that 2h can't have the longest weapons on horseback. To generalize it further: Most 1h used while riding are longer than the morningstar, but most 2h cav use bardiche or longsword, which are equal or longer than most 1h used while riding (I know bardiche is shorter than ACS, btw).
Also 1h cav get a shield which brings with it alot of benifits which 2h cav dont get, most notably the blocking radius
Most of the 2h used while riding can also be used with a shield for no further disadvantage. Longsword on horse is the same as longsword with shield is the same as longsword with shield on horse. Apart from the S.Mil.Scythe and the 2h axes, all 2hs that can be used on horse can be used with a shield, including the morningstar.
Blocking isn't gunna save the day, but it can save your life. Whenever I end up in a slow speed cav fight with 1h/2h cav I will always block. If your horse is dieing in one hit stop using a girly light horse and get a proper horse, I use warhorse cos I'm smart.
In my very biased opinion 1h/2h cav need some way of fighting lancer cav else they would forever be screwed. Lance angle nerf made it far easier for 1h/2h cav, but the couching will still gives lancers an advantage over them as well as the reach of lances in a head on charge.
Girly horses for girly players :P Warhorse4lyfe!
Also, try getting the lancers to chase you, then rear the horse and slash their bodys open. Works like a charm and feels so good you gonna accidentally your whole keyboard.
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Sorry Latviano but Lizardman is a lot better player than royanss when it comes to 1h cav
lolno. While Lizzy is good, Royanns is one of the (very) few players that makes me afraid on the battlefield, both as a lancer and a piker (!). I've speced him quite a bit as well, and some of the stuff he pulls off is unbelievable. And the bastard always one-shots me :(
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i meant swords, 1h swords.
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Sorry Latviano but Lizardman is a lot better player than royanss when it comes to 1h cav, It`s been a long time since he played that class but goddamn , lizzy had a natural talent with that class, and keep in mind that he was playing with a destrier and not an arabian horse.
Lol, Lizard was equally bad on foot as he was on horse.
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Sorry Latviano but Lizardman is a lot better player than royanss when it comes to 1h cav, It`s been a long time since he played that class but goddamn , lizzy had a natural talent with that class, and keep in mind that he was playing with a destrier and not an arabian horse.
So what? I'm playing with a mamluke horse!
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I've been successful as 1H cav whether I use a 64 length Steel Pick, a 103 length Paramerion (Shashka), or anything in between. I've also been successful as cavalry if I pick up a Morningstar with 1 WP in 2H. I've also been successful as cavalry if I pick up a lance with 1 WP in polearms. I have done this in Strategus battles when my team has been getting rammed and is out of 1H weapons, or very low on them, and I find that I get similar if not better KDRs using polearms and especially 2Hs like the Morningstar. The moral of the story is: stop nitpicking, 1H cav is not easier than any other type of cavalry. It just takes a marginally different play style.
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lolno. While Lizzy is good, Royanns is one of the (very) few players that makes me afraid on the battlefield, both as a lancer and a piker (!). I've speced him quite a bit as well, and some of the stuff he pulls off is unbelievable. And the bastard always one-shots me :(
But when he falls off his horse suddenly he becomes an freekill for most ppl :D
everything is swings and roundabouts
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But when he falls off his horse suddenly he becomes an freekill for most ppl :D
everything is swings and roundabouts
While not as good as the best foot only 1h, Royanss is not a pushover when dismounted. If he survived the nap on the ground that is.
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Man, where's Digglez when we need him? He was #1 NA cav, you know.