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cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Torben on March 06, 2013, 11:51:25 am

Title: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Torben on March 06, 2013, 11:51:25 am
hm?
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Leesin on March 06, 2013, 11:52:16 am
If by strongest you mean ez-mode then I agree.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: BlueKnight on March 06, 2013, 12:05:18 pm
They did all the stuff and stat-changing but totally forgot about Heavy glance...
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Torben on March 06, 2013, 12:06:30 pm
Heavy glance...

haha n1
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Molly on March 06, 2013, 12:17:58 pm
Changing the damage on a few swords by a few points w/o any other changes hardly makes them the strongest class all of sudden.

What a nonsense...
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Mlekce on March 06, 2013, 12:19:34 pm
Dude y play as lancer y have no right to call any class easy mod. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Rebelyell on March 06, 2013, 12:26:14 pm
Dude y play as lancer y have no right to call any class easy mod. :mrgreen:
I he play with heavy lance he can call ezzemode whatever he wants
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: autobus on March 06, 2013, 12:30:39 pm
no
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Torben on March 06, 2013, 12:31:32 pm
i aint calling shit easymode mates,  and I dont see a connection to the newest patch.  I do however see shielders as extremly versatile and strong considering the current battle field picture.  2 or three fast shielders with poles and 1handers seem to be the shit atm
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Erzengel on March 06, 2013, 12:33:04 pm
Why should shielder be stronger now? There were only some buffs to really bad and underused weapons. 0 slots on some weapons won't affect most shielders. Steel Pick and Military Pick were nerfed. Paramerion is too cheap and some other prices are wrong but this hardly makes shielder op compared to other classes. New shields also will be fixed soon.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Torben on March 06, 2013, 12:37:36 pm
and again:  never said anything about op or easy mode.  havent you guys noticed over the course of the last years that strength of classes shift dynamically relative to the numbers and hypes of other classes and weapons?  atm,  I see shielders as the strongest class. 
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: [ptx] on March 06, 2013, 12:39:52 pm
No worries, 2h still ez-mode.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: EyeBeat on March 06, 2013, 12:44:20 pm
As long as blocking while kicking is in.  Shielders will not be the strongest class.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Sagar on March 06, 2013, 12:44:34 pm
Shielders don't have any penalties. They moving fast arm with shield, like they wearing watch on they hand (and lots of shields weight is from 7 to 12,5 kg !!!). Rising and lowering shield to make a strike need to be much solver. Also when they holding a shield and like 5 players hitting on shield - they shod start receiving damage. OP backpedaling class with no penalties.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Rhaegar on March 06, 2013, 12:46:33 pm
shielders  has always been the most versatile class,but it has its weaknesses as all other classes.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Ronin on March 06, 2013, 12:51:17 pm
shielders  has always been the most versatile class,but it has its weaknesses as all other classes.I think no news
No shielders are OP. So as every class other than 2handers.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Osiris on March 06, 2013, 12:52:02 pm
You see more shielders because of the frankly retarded amount of  ranged there has been on eu1 for the past few months :P. when you log in and see 30-50% of the enemy team is pew pewing well a shield makes sense. 2h still rape everything in sight if there are no ranged involved :P
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Rhaegar on March 06, 2013, 12:53:17 pm
No shielders are OP. So as every class other than 2handers.

What is OP?  :shock:
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on March 06, 2013, 01:11:56 pm
hoplite
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tuetensuppe on March 06, 2013, 01:12:00 pm
Also when they holding a shield and like 5 players hitting on shield - they shod start receiving damage. OP backpedaling class with no penalties.

bi ba bullshit

...if more than 2-3 guys go at the same time for 1 shielder > evry shielder get into big trouble, as long these guys are not to dumb to kill him in the right way...
several guys attacking means also several hits and several hits means, that a the shield get broken quite fast
no evryone has 11 shieldskill like kinngrimm ;)
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: [ptx] on March 06, 2013, 01:12:38 pm
Shielders don't have any penalties. They moving fast arm with shield, like they wearing watch on they hand (and lots of shields weight is from 7 to 12,5 kg !!!). Rising and lowering shield to make a strike need to be much solver. Also when they holding a shield and like 5 players hitting on shield - they shod start receiving damage. OP backpedaling class with no penalties.
Str crutching, heavily armored 2h user spotted.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Casimir on March 06, 2013, 01:23:15 pm
Yeah it's a nice damage buff, well deserved. 1h has always been a damn fine class but has suffered in damage output.  Might play on my 1h alt for the first time in months.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Jarlek on March 06, 2013, 01:44:23 pm
No worries, 2h still ez-mode.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Sagar on March 06, 2013, 01:45:29 pm
Str crutching, heavily armored 2h user spotted.

Lies  :mrgreen:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Ronin on March 06, 2013, 01:46:39 pm
That axe on your back, is designed to break shields if you don't know.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Belatu on March 06, 2013, 01:53:24 pm
Shielders should be the strongest class,,, I mean, they got shields XD

Now seriously, Shielder should be, maybe not the strongest, but yes the most important class in a group fight.
Basic infantry prepared for defend a place. Take a psotition and defend it. Thats the basic of the basic. Everything else is strategy built around this concept
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Sagar on March 06, 2013, 01:53:51 pm
That axe on your back, is designed to break shields if you don't know.

I really don't know that  ... thanks man. I used this axe to charge at cavalry. OMG you really help me.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Jarlek on March 06, 2013, 01:55:34 pm
Lies  :mrgreen:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Is this were I mention that you are trying to buy my +3 churburg armour?
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 06, 2013, 03:05:32 pm
Shielders don't have any penalties. They moving fast arm with shield, like they wearing watch on they hand (and lots of shields weight is from 7 to 12,5 kg !!!). Rising and lowering shield to make a strike need to be much solver. Also when they holding a shield and like 5 players hitting on shield - they shod start receiving damage. OP backpedaling class with no penalties.
Dude, are you fucking retarded? Also, lol at the last part, aren't you like a 2h and stuff? I don't think you should be calling anyone else an OP backpedaling class.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Vibe on March 06, 2013, 03:15:04 pm
1h cut versus any kind of STR build / can armor is beyond frustrating
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Mlekce on March 06, 2013, 03:22:54 pm
lower amount of ranged and voila there will be less Shields on eu1.
I don't know how is anyone able to play without shield on eu1. It is insane. Pew pew everywhere.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Sagar on March 06, 2013, 03:57:47 pm
I see how many down voting my post about shielders, what to say ...childish.

Truth about OP shielders hurting that much? Or shielders are afraid of nerfing? We'll see what the future will bring.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Turboflex on March 06, 2013, 04:15:52 pm
Cuz you're a dumbass complaining about "realism" of the speed of one mechanical aspect in a game where horses handle like ducati racing motorcycles, and 2 meter long swords and poleaxes can do full damage hits hitting people with handle/hilt of weapon.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 06, 2013, 04:19:09 pm
sword and board, two handers, and poles are pretty balanced IMO.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Falka on March 06, 2013, 04:21:07 pm
Dude, are you fucking retarded?

Yes, he is  :P

down voting my post about shielders, what to say ...childish.

And you caring about minuses aren't childish at all. Right...  :P
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tibe on March 06, 2013, 04:34:16 pm
Translation:"OMG 1h is acctually somewhat competitive against 2h and glaive spamming. IT IZ OP Y U NERF NOWAAAAAA!!!!!!"
Morons -.-.........
And what a big suprise that a dedicated 2hspammer like Sagar starts QQing about other classes being OP.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Crob28 on March 06, 2013, 04:42:13 pm
Shielders don't have any penalties. They moving fast arm with shield, like they wearing watch on they hand (and lots of shields weight is from 7 to 12,5 kg !!!). Rising and lowering shield to make a strike need to be much solver. Also when they holding a shield and like 5 players hitting on shield - they shod start receiving damage. OP backpedaling class with no penalties.

Aside from reduced attack range, reduced attack damage, (str shielders) the fact that an opponent can dance around the side of your shield while your slow ass can barely keep up, (agi shielders) the fact that one mistake means getting one-shotted, the weird way if you have your shield up and your opponent pushes against you, they somehow pop out behind you and hiltslash for max damage, the fact that for the most part, the left swing is predictably easy to block and the others are all massively telegraphed, swings from a side angle that visibly go through the shield aren't blocked and do full damage and oh yea, if you drop the shield block for even a split second to try a "block feint" you won't get it back up in time while other classes can have their weapon stuck in the ground after a missed overhead and still get the block back up so fast the weapon warps into place  :P

So yea no penalties at all  :rolleyes:

TLDR - Shielders have weaknesses, don't be mad that you can't beat them, learn these weaknesses and use them.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: LordLargos on March 06, 2013, 04:56:00 pm
Shielders don't have any penalties. They moving fast arm with shield, like they wearing watch on they hand (and lots of shields weight is from 7 to 12,5 kg !!!). Rising and lowering shield to make a strike need to be much solver. Also when they holding a shield and like 5 players hitting on shield - they shod start receiving damage. OP backpedaling class with no penalties.
Bro do you even school?
Dude first of all you think that shields are light, have you ever played shielder. Try equipping two shields it's like putting sheets of ice on the bottom of your shoes and then trying to run around. I don't even know what you said in the third sentence but in the fourth you claim that "they shod start receiving damage" but did you ever think about out maneuvering them?
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Laufknoten on March 06, 2013, 05:13:16 pm
Translation:"OMG 1h is acctually somewhat competitive against 2h and glaive spamming. IT IZ OP Y U NERF NOWAAAAAA!!!!!!"
Morons -.-.........
And what a big suprise that a dedicated 2hspammer like Sagar starts QQing about other classes being OP.
I remember fighting against GTX or some other 2h prick and two other guys. After I hit him like 3 times (which took him perhaps 30% hp...) the guy suddenly started backpedaling out of my reach and moments later something like "oh you f'cking spam noob" appeared in the chat. It was funny because I was using the shashka which is/was one of the slowest 1h weapons...



 
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on March 06, 2013, 05:39:48 pm
sword and board, two handers, and poles are pretty balanced IMO.

This. Although I think a few polearms could use a buff perhaps.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Grumbs on March 06, 2013, 06:02:33 pm
You shouldn't really compare sword/board vs 2 hander vs polearm in terms of straight 1v1 fights to determine balance, which the item balance guys seem to do.

Shielders don't have to manually block 90% of the time
They have protection from ranged
They can block more than 1 direction at once
Get out of clusterfucks easier
Their attacks naturally hit the head due to range and animations
Left swing can often force players to miss an attack phase
Fast faints
WPF is a less important stat than naturally slower weapons (although the importance of WPF for any melee is questionable after 100 odd)

For all that they get a bit less damage (except for pierce/blunt attacks). The range is often shorter but even that is deceptively long

I felt the EU1 meta was already favouring shielders, and then they increase damage? I think this is another attempt to sidestep the issue of ranged, by rather than nerfing ranged they try to buff ranged counters, and all they can find to do is buff shielders rather than hit the issue square on. If ranged are also using 1 handers then I don't see how that buffs the counters more than ranged. Crossbows going to 2 slots helps a bit, it forces people to use 1 handers I guess.

Everyone seems to have got increased movement speed, archers even mention how they move faster than pre-patch. I don't know how it affects kiting if everyone moves faster. Acceleration speed is what matters with kiting, and that probably increased so not sure if archers were actually buffed, especially with more sidearm variety while still having 2 arrow stacks. I know EU1 is still a ranged fest anyway

Don't want to make a premature judgement though, this is just my initial impressions
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Sagar on March 06, 2013, 06:06:37 pm
Oh how many raging here, yea you can nerf every clas: nerf ranged, nerf cav, nerf polearm, nerf 2h  ... but don't touch 1h and shield - It's a hornets' nest.

Nice vocabulary here: retarded and so ...

Yea I play every class in this mod. I have 4 generations as 1h shielder - easiest OP experience, so I chose 2h to play something more challenging - pure knight. There is nothing else just armor, my sword and my skill.

You guys seems don't understand me. I don't have anything against any class. Lets everyone play whatever class he wants - that's is a beauty of this game/mod.

I just want to point out how shielders are OP. But I see this is just turning into a witch hunt, because it is obvious that lobby for shielders here is too big, and community immediately crucified you if you tries to say something against them.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Osiris on March 06, 2013, 06:08:16 pm
No people lol at you for saying stuff like this "so I chose 2h to play something more challenging "

2h is not a hard class to play. its not a challenge really, most people score way higher points and kills playing 2h then they do as 1h
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: [ptx] on March 06, 2013, 06:09:43 pm
My 2h alt is currently my most played class, because i cba to put effort into this game right now. 2h takes like 0 effort.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Falka on March 06, 2013, 06:10:47 pm
community immediately crucified you

(click to show/hide)

And here you are, our own Jesus, crucified for our sins  :P
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Shemaforash on March 06, 2013, 06:12:15 pm
I find that these classes are all relatively balanced...
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Kafein on March 06, 2013, 06:15:22 pm
Just FYI, Sagar also argued in favor of trading hits.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Crob28 on March 06, 2013, 06:22:54 pm
blahblahblah

Ah I see he is another one of those types who can not be reasoned with in a rational discussion, for as soon as he is met with disagreement he resorts to "lol QQ" and then seems to genuinely believe that he is now being wronged  :shock:

Think it's best we leave him to his own special world, lest we nasty lobbyists upset him further.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Grumbs on March 06, 2013, 06:26:57 pm
Actually I think you guys are way too over sensitive with people with differing opinions. Better blast him with downvotes to show how wrong he is.

Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tibe on March 06, 2013, 06:33:12 pm
(click to show/hide)

Yep. We lol at you cause you say that 2h is more challenging. Which is bullshit to atleast 80% of players. Shielders have loads of penalties. Mostly 2h and polearm players basically easly do circles around them.

And 2h is eazymode. This is why I became a shielder. I was 2h most of the time and occasionally I roleplayed as a 2h fighter who has a distinctive fear of being successful and on top of the scoreboard. Quess what happened? I still ended up successful and top of the scoreboards with little effort from my part which ended up in me having a mental breakdown cause of this. This is what most people experience...exept the mental breakdown part, thats just me being insane HUEHUEHUEHUE

And we made fun of you cause you were all like "2h is a MANS class, shielder is for milkdrinking OPloving easymodeplayers" and basically explained your statement with wrong facts.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Horst_Kurmoottaja on March 06, 2013, 06:34:21 pm
Also this jibber jabber about how some certain class is easymode is obvius e-peen polishing.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: San on March 06, 2013, 06:36:41 pm
Other than the paramerion or however you spell it, 1h was only introduced with alternative weapons. In fact, the most damaging 1h got nerfed. The new/rebalanced weapons are nice, but it wasn't enough to make me switch from my weapon of choice, it just provides me more options to use. The shields are nice too, but they only really help against ranged or if you can't block well. Even so, those who can't block well probably don't know how to attack well, either.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Osiris on March 06, 2013, 06:37:19 pm
The classes are well balanced now. The game flows. increase in archers = increase in shields, as some archers change to melee then some shielders will go back to 2h/polearms :P


A lot of players just play the class that is best at the time ^^ Shielding isn't OP but neither is anything else now
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 06, 2013, 07:10:14 pm
Actually I think you guys are way too over sensitive with people with differing opinions. Better blast him with downvotes to show how wrong he is.


So you respond by being "overly sensitive" to people with differing opinions by saying they are "blasting" someone due to a mere downvote?



Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Malaclypse on March 06, 2013, 07:27:44 pm
Blast it with piss.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Vodner on March 06, 2013, 07:30:02 pm
I see how many down voting my post about shielders, what to say ...childish.

Truth about OP shielders hurting that much? Or shielders are afraid of nerfing? We'll see what the future will bring.
I get more kills by strength-stacking a 2h build and using the greatsword like a miniature pike than I ever get with my swash builds. I do better in duel with that setup too.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Joseph Porta on March 06, 2013, 07:31:31 pm
2h so hard, I so gud!!

Neither is hard with the correct build, I play a tri-brid as 16/18 and do just fine with 100 wpf in all three melee weapons, also as a shielder I do just fine. :)

I get more kills by strength-stacking a 2h build and using the greatsword like a miniature pike than I ever get with my swash builds. I do better in duel with that setup too.
Swashbuckling in clusterfucks is far superior then 2h in clusterfuck, From my experience.
It both has its ups and downs, if i encounter a good shielder as a 2h he can kill me, vice versa aswell.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Prpavi on March 06, 2013, 07:31:36 pm
yes the are and there is way too many of them.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 06, 2013, 07:38:12 pm
So who here would be interested in me taking a screenshot at the end of EVERY battle map I play from now on, and see who is in the top 5 for each team?


After three years of this silliness, I am so tempted...
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Prpavi on March 06, 2013, 07:54:25 pm
So who here would be interested in me taking a screenshot at the end of EVERY battle map I play from now on, and see who is in the top 5 for each team?


After three years of this silliness, I am so tempted...

youre implying that 2h heroes rule the servers still i believe.

why should 2h/polearm users be equal with shielders in terms of damage and kills? you get the easiest valor by being a shileder or cav, you are here to soak up dmg not deal one. 2H WILL ALLWAYS BE THE CLASS THAT GETS THE MOST KILLS BECAUSE THAT IS THEIR ROLE!!! get it right fellas and start playing your roles on the battlefield, equaling 2h/1h and arcehrs makes no sense. you can't play defensivley with 2h you cant make a shieldwall and protect your teammates, you can only slay, why are you all so jelly ffs.

do you actually believe that 2h is an easier class to play and master?


Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Grumbs on March 06, 2013, 07:54:48 pm

So you respond by being "overly sensitive" to people with differing opinions by saying they are "blasting" someone due to a mere downvote?

Its petty, thats all. Saying "blasting" is overly sensitive? You part of the problem if you think so. People need to chill and let people post without getting personal
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Grumbs on March 06, 2013, 07:57:47 pm
So who here would be interested in me taking a screenshot at the end of EVERY battle map I play from now on, and see who is in the top 5 for each team?


After three years of this silliness, I am so tempted...

People doing well with a class doesn't represent its strength or OPness. It depends on what inputs are required from the player, and how safe the player can be while dealing damage. Risk vs reward etc. Ranged should not be ever anywhere near top because of their relative safety from which they can deal damage. Similar with shielders (but not as bad as ranged)
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Matey on March 06, 2013, 08:14:19 pm
I only read page one. Shielders are not OP. They are actually under powered. Their thrust is unreliable, the overhead doesn't have the insanely long hang-time that the 2h does, their right and left swings are pretty good but they still can't throw the same kind of goofy feints that 2h and polearm can. They have the shortest weapons and are the easiest to kick, they can't kick and block but everyone without a shield can (at least on NA, I heard they fixed kicking on EU... lucky bastards). Hoplites have exactly ONE attack direction, yeah they can be pretty good support but if you lose to hoplite in 1v1 it is your own fault. Backpedalling as a shielder is far less effective than backpedalling with a long hafted blade or a long bardiche or other such weapons, you typically have to dart forward to actually get into range to hit anyone with a shield, also in order to have the mobility to actually backpedal effectively, you need to go light armour with a high agi build, in other words you die in 1-2 hits and you do shit damage so you have to hit people a lot.

Buff 1handers.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Nehvar on March 06, 2013, 08:20:33 pm
My shielder that I rarely play does better in siege/battle than my main, a two-hander.  I don't know exactly why that is though so I'm a bad example.  I think this game hates me.

If siege and battle get shield bash as it is now...oh man...shielders, shielders everywhere.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Phew on March 06, 2013, 09:04:24 pm
I´m playing my lvl 30 18/18 1h shield alt at the moment and it is more effective than my lvl 33 main 2h spammer.

I make more points, survive longer and can slaughter archer folks easily. It definitily does not need any kind of a buff. It´s fine as it is.

I´m even thinking about respeccing my main to 1h shield once I reach lvl 34, because it´s so much more effective on battle mode.

The class is most effective at earning points/valour, since those are based on being alive and near the action. They are not the most effective at actually killing people. Once the reward system is reworked (as I'm sure it will be), all will be well.

I know shielders aren't OP, because they are the #2 easiest class for me to kill behind archers. 2h is still by far the hardest, because they can 1-2 shot me (using 'tricks' like hiltslash and lolstab and blockkick), but I need like 8 hits to kill them with a 1h sword. Against other shielders, I can usually break their shield with like 4-5 axe swings, then they die in about 3-4 swings. So same number of hits required, but if I mess up against the 2h, I'm done. You can make all kinds of mistakes when fighting a shielder and still win.

Now, the top shielders are really tough, but so are the top players in any class.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 06, 2013, 09:14:00 pm
youre implying that 2h heroes rule the servers still i believe.



No, I'm implying that there is a wonderful spread every time I play, and the percentages of top performers match up pretty well with the percentage of who is playing what... On average.


Also note that the map or even mode (Battle VS Siege VS Duel (Which is a microsystem of what can happen in any mode)) modifies to a certain extent who does what better.


Most people when "balancing" only look at a small window of the game and not the grand scope of things, and make dumbshit threads.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 06, 2013, 09:29:17 pm
youre implying that 2h heroes rule the servers still i believe.
They do.
why should 2h/polearm users be equal with shielders in terms of damage and kills? you get the easiest valor by being a shileder or cav, you are here to soak up dmg not deal one. 2H WILL ALLWAYS BE THE CLASS THAT GETS THE MOST KILLS BECAUSE THAT IS THEIR ROLE!!! get it right fellas and start playing your roles on the battlefield, equaling 2h/1h and arcehrs makes no sense. you can't play defensivley with 2h you cant make a shieldwall and protect your teammates, you can only slay, why are you all so jelly ffs.
lawl, and in everything but strat shieldwalls are pretty useless.
do you actually believe that 2h is an easier class to play and master?
Yes, most noobs can do much better with 2h than 1h, even though they can't block, and most somewhat bellow average players can perform much better with 2h, average players can perform much better with 2h, good players can perform much better with 2h. Also note that I'm talking 2h and not poles, 2h are pretty superior to polearms, 1h is still the weakest melee class, but poles aren't near 2h. (now go ahead and whine about op glaives who can kick you when you come close and outreach your sideswings and nearly match your stab, the only reason you have issues with glaives is becaused you're used to outreaching everything and therefore not capable of comprehending the idea of staying inside your weapons reach and his weapons reach without just facehuggin'.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Ujin on March 06, 2013, 09:47:49 pm
I'm really tired to elaborate , so i'll make it short, here's my opinion :

- shielders have the survivability in clusterfucks and protection against multiple opponents/ranged. In exchange they get teamhit the most , have to take the beating in the front lines and have overall less damage output as well as mobility, not to mention some of the most annoying problems that come from animations.

- two handers are the class that specializes in either mobility or taking punishment (both is possible via min-maxing) depending on the build and also delivering the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time. Superior animations also are very helpful for dueling AND for crowd fights too.

- polearms have the widest variety of equipment to choose from (both cav and infantry specialized), good damage output and some of the most versatile weapons out there (poleaxe), however their animations are still sub-par compared  to 2h, but not that much.


To sum it up, i think it's pretty good as it is atm.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Ronin on March 06, 2013, 10:11:36 pm
I'm really tired to elaborate , so i'll make it short, here's my opinion :

- shielders have the survivability in clusterfucks and protection against multiple opponents/ranged. In exchange they get teamhit the most , have to take the beating in the front lines and have overall less damage output as well as mobility, not to mention some of the most annoying problems that come from animations.

- two handers are the class that specializes in either mobility or taking punishment (both is possible via min-maxing) depending on the build and also delivering the most amount of damage in the shortest amount of time. Superior animations also are very helpful for dueling AND for crowd fights too.

- polearms have the widest variety of equipment to choose from (both cav and infantry specialized), good damage output and some of the most versatile weapons out there (poleaxe), however their animations are still sub-par compared  to 2h, but not that much.


To sum it up, i think it's pretty good as it is atm.
Good analysis, but let me add two things:
- One hander's short reach can be an advantage to avoid doing tk and killing the enemy in crowd fights.

-Polearmers and twohanders can spam without the fear of staying dead for a whole round, because they can spawn 5-30 sec later. For siege of course.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 06, 2013, 10:32:37 pm
To sum it up, i think it's pretty good as it is atm.
Just sayin', but 1h no shield get none of the 1h bonuses besides sexy animations.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Kafein on March 06, 2013, 10:41:54 pm
do you actually believe that 2h is an easier class to play and master?

Yes ?

Reach and footwork became extremely dominant factors in melee gameplay, to some extent replacing blocking, feints, holds and whatnot, hence why a short weapon is an enormous disadvantage. Low reach forces you to be extremely concentrated on keeping your opponent close enough, which is already not trivial, and instantly switch to a defensive behavior in case he goes out of your reach, even when that happens in the middle of one of your swings. Spectate a good shielder and a good 2h and count the number of times they have to block and the number of times they have to interrupt one of their own attacks to block, maybe you'll see what I'm talking about.

People doing well with a class doesn't represent its strength or OPness. It depends on what inputs are required from the player, and how safe the player can be while dealing damage. Risk vs reward etc. Ranged should not be ever anywhere near top because of their relative safety from which they can deal damage. Similar with shielders (but not as bad as ranged)

Shielders have to be closer to their target and hit it more often to kill it, how is that less dangerous ?
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Matey on March 06, 2013, 11:06:58 pm
Just sayin', but 1h no shield get none of the 1h bonuses besides sexy animations.

yeah 1h no shield is what really needs love, but it is hard to buff that without overbuffing shielders. I still think improving the animations or adding a damage or two to the majority of 1h weapons would help.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 06, 2013, 11:11:44 pm
yeah 1h no shield is what really needs love, but it is hard to buff that without overbuffing shielders. I still think improving the animations or adding a damage or two to the majority of 1h weapons would help.

One handers already have the best animations...
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Phew on March 06, 2013, 11:20:25 pm
One handers already have the best animations...

If you evaluate the "quality" of an animation by the size of its sweetspot and reach bonus, 2h has equal or superior animations for every attack direction.

All 1h has going for it over 2h is that left swing tends to hit the head, but 2h sideswings have the "crouch" feature with is a nice defense bonus (and counter to the 1h left swing, since they duck under it by attacking). 1h right swing glances during the first 40% of the animation and has a long delay and 1h thrust has a whole litany of problems. Overhead is about the same for all three weapon types, except 2h gets a nice reach bonus.

Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Prpavi on March 06, 2013, 11:20:28 pm


oki thats your opinion, i have no problem with different opinions.

for the record i play Polearms now either bamboo or LHB, so im in no way a kuyak hero trying to lobby for 2h but most of 2h hero hate is unjustified and utter bullcrap. i find polearms to be a better choice atm.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Smoothrich on March 06, 2013, 11:32:21 pm
If you evaluate the "quality" of an animation by the size of its sweetspot and reach bonus, 2h has equal or superior animations for every attack direction.

All 1h has going for it over 2h is that left swing tends to hit the head, but 2h sideswings have the "crouch" feature with is a nice defense bonus (and counter to the 1h left swing, since they duck under it by attacking). 1h right swing glances during the first 40% of the animation and has a long delay and 1h thrust has a whole litany of problems. Overhead is about the same for all three weapon types, except 2h gets a nice reach bonus.

The 1hand right swing is one of the best animations in the game (pro secrets)
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Matey on March 06, 2013, 11:39:16 pm
If you evaluate the "quality" of an animation by the size of its sweetspot and reach bonus, 2h has equal or superior animations for every attack direction.

All 1h has going for it over 2h is that left swing tends to hit the head, but 2h sideswings have the "crouch" feature with is a nice defense bonus (and counter to the 1h left swing, since they duck under it by attacking). 1h right swing glances during the first 40% of the animation and has a long delay and 1h thrust has a whole litany of problems. Overhead is about the same for all three weapon types, except 2h gets a nice reach bonus.

2H also has that thing where the overhead seems to stay active longer, like when they blatantly miss the overhead so you let go of block and then while they are pulling back the weapon after missing, you get hit.

Smooth mentioned 1h right swing being good, and it is when dancing around at distance, so yeah it has pros and cons compared to the 2hander. mostly just need the stab sweetspot to stop being terrible. glancing sucks.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 06, 2013, 11:41:42 pm
The 1hand right swing is one of the best animations in the game (pro secrets)
It's one of the best animations in the game, I agree, it's the only 1h animation that's worth a damn though imo (leftswing is only really uselessfull in one position, making it bad imo, hate the overhead, stab is extremely hard to pull and glances at a lot of ranges), it got several annoying features to it though, and the 2h stab or sideswings are still better imo.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Kafein on March 06, 2013, 11:43:18 pm
The 1hand right swing is one of the best animations in the game (pro secrets)

The 1h right swing is the reason any good player will facehug + circle you to your right while hiltslashing and basically not risk anything while doing it.

I agree it is very good to get a little bit more range without the accuracy problems of overheads and stabs, but the "early" animation glancing is horrible, and has the side effect of making this attack effectively very slow.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 06, 2013, 11:46:48 pm
If you evaluate the "quality" of an animation by the size of its sweetspot and reach bonus, 2h has equal or superior animations for every attack direction.

All 1h has going for it over 2h is that left swing tends to hit the head, but 2h sideswings have the "crouch" feature with is a nice defense bonus (and counter to the 1h left swing, since they duck under it by attacking). 1h right swing glances during the first 40% of the animation and has a long delay and 1h thrust has a whole litany of problems. Overhead is about the same for all three weapon types, except 2h gets a nice reach bonus.

Most of your attacks should be left swings. The right swing is absurdly good of you use it correctly, as is the stab. I see every thread about one handers complaining about their stab being useless then I go in game and watch dan* run around with the lee or sidesword (which is pretty op at mw) poking everyone to death.

*yes I know he is one of the na players, but I dont think that takes away from the point.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Vodner on March 06, 2013, 11:48:53 pm
As far as animations go, I feel like 1h actually has a pretty good set. Once the turning rate tweaks (finally) make their way to NA, they will be pretty much perfect.

At the very least, I certainly like 1h animations more than polearm animations.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 06, 2013, 11:52:22 pm
As far as animations go, I feel like 1h actually has a pretty good set. Once the turning rate tweaks (finally) make their way to NA, they will be pretty much perfect.

At the very least, I certainly like 1h animations more than polearm animations.
Poles got the worst animations and got the best stats to compensate, 2h got the best animations and got the second best stats to compensate, 1h got the second best animations and got the worst stats 'cause lol.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Artyem on March 07, 2013, 12:03:13 am
lol at this thread


I'm not sure what "buffs" 1h got aside from some weapons being made 0 slot and a few new weapons being broken stats wise, but I have to say that 1h is far from being the strongest class.  As someone else stated, 1h will only become somewhat dominant when blocking a held swing while standing on one foot with the other in the air is no longer possible.  Even then, I'm pretty sure 2h's ability to teleport through my shield and stab my eyes out with the hilt of their sword will still fuck me over in the long run.

too tired to make full QQ rage post, go read my other posts on the topic if you want my opinion lol
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Kafein on March 07, 2013, 12:04:52 am
The problem of 1h is not having enough unrealistic features/straight glitches in their favor  :lol:
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Dezilagel on March 07, 2013, 12:14:46 am
The 1h right swing is the reason any good player will facehug + circle youme to yourmy right while hiltslashing and basically not risk anything while doing it.

Fixed.

With proper turning the rightswing won't glance like that.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Joseph Porta on March 07, 2013, 12:18:43 am
Ive always found the right swing situational when it comes to its use, i wouldnt like to have it at the same speed level as the left swing, and if they kite your right hiltslashing, move forward, get out of its range cause those fools will just kite away from you, block and turn for a hit.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: BADPLAYER_old2 on March 07, 2013, 12:21:36 am
Poles got the worst animations and got the best stats to compensate, 2h got the best animations and got the second best stats to compensate, 1h got the second best animations and got the worst stats 'cause lol.

Shields.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Teeth on March 07, 2013, 12:37:13 am
Just sayin', but 1h no shield get none of the 1h bonuses besides sexy animations.
Lies, 1h, 1h/2h and 2h wielded weapons all have a different modifier for how much the weight of a carried weapon decreases your movement speed. 1h has the best modifier, which added to the fact that the weapons are mostly very light anyway, makes you have a lot more movement speed. Not top speed as much as strafe speed, which is extremely important and its effect should not be underestimated. 1h no shield is a class for the exquisite anyway, so it does not need a buff. Besides, on the duel and siege servers a 1h no shield is far from underpowered.



On topic:
There is a lot of people here that just need to learn to play. 1h has amazing animations, suited like no other to fuck up someone quickly in a 1 vs 1, while also having extremely good reach. There are so much shielders I see daily which only scratch the surface of the tricks and possibilities 1h has to offer, people get lazy from having a shield. The right swing is amazingly long and does not glance easily at all. Yes, it is slow, but if you use it with proper footwork that only increases its amazing reach.  The overhead is extremely fast and confusing, cause it resembles the leftswing. The leftswing is extremely fast, can hit very early in the animation and hits up high. Stab used to be amazing, I am curious how the overhead and stab fare now on EU_1.

I recommend any of the people here who claims that 1h has bad animations, to go 1h without a shield for a while and really think about what kind of tricks you can come up with.

I don't know if the term 'shielders' included hoplites, but I agree. Hoplites are the strongest battle class. Amazing damage output, counters cav and ranged. If played properly it does decently in a 1 vs 1. Not a single class allows me to affect the chances of victory of my team like hoplite does.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 07, 2013, 12:55:06 am
Lies, 1h, 1h/2h and 2h wielded weapons all have a different modifier for how much the weight of a carried weapon decreases your movement speed. 1h has the best modifier, which added to the fact that the weapons are mostly very light anyway, makes you have a lot more movement speed. Not top speed as much as strafe speed, which is extremely important and its effect should not be underestimated. 1h no shield is a class for the exquisite anyway, so it does not need a buff. Besides, on the duel and siege servers a 1h no shield is far from underpowered.



On topic:
There is a lot of people here that just need to learn to play. 1h has amazing animations, suited like no other to fuck up someone quickly in a 1 vs 1, while also having extremely good reach. There are so much shielders I see daily which only scratch the surface of the tricks and possibilities 1h has to offer, people get lazy from having a shield. The right swing is amazingly long and does not glance easily at all. Yes, it is slow, but if you use it with proper footwork that only increases its amazing reach.  The overhead is extremely fast and confusing, cause it resembles the leftswing. The leftswing is extremely fast, can hit very early in the animation and hits up high. Stab used to be amazing, I am curious how the overhead and stab fare now on EU_1.

I recommend any of the people here who claims that 1h has bad animations, to go 1h without a shield for a while and really think about what kind of tricks you can come up with.

I don't know if the term 'shielders' included hoplites, but I agree. Hoplites are the strongest battle class. Amazing damage output, counters cav and ranged. If played properly it does decently in a 1 vs 1. Not a single class allows me to affect the chances of victory of my team like hoplite does.
You basically rq'd 1h no shield, just saying.
EDIT: Wait, on second thought I'm pretty sure it's Bjord (who sucked hard at it) or Duke (who just sucks hard) who GTX it.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: San on March 07, 2013, 12:56:15 am
The 1hand right swing is one of the best animations in the game (pro secrets)

Right swing hater here. I would overhead any day of the week before right swing. It's way too slow. 1h Overhead is secretly one of the best.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Teeth on March 07, 2013, 01:04:54 am
You basically rq'd 1h no shield, just saying.
What? I leveled a 1h no shield to almost level 33, forgive me for wanting to play something different. Sure, 1h no shield is not the strongest class in battle, which is by far my favourite game mode, but you can't seriously expect or want it to be. I got tired of playing a class that was hard to play in my preferred game mode and using my teamplay focused style.

Besides, I am only saying that 1h animations are awesome and that 1h no shield does actually have an advantage mechanic wise compared to 1h/shield and 2h. I am not saying the class is OP, only that it isn't notably UP. No need for the ad hominem.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Phew on March 07, 2013, 01:06:40 am
Right swing hater here. I would overhead any day of the week before right swing. It's way too slow. 1h Overhead is secretly one of the best.

True dat, right swing is so slow, and all your opponent has to do is strafe to your right to make it glance. Ever since someone (you?) recommended steering overheads with strafes rather than turns, it's been my favorite attack. I can't wait until NA servers get the turn rate change, because overhead will be even better.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 07, 2013, 01:06:46 am
One Handed Right Swing is good for battles, but in a duel even with a feint it telegraphs itself too much and allows an uncomfortably long amount of time for the opponent to block it. It is rather lovely though for opportunistic attacks in battle.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 07, 2013, 01:11:08 am
One Handed Right Swing is good for battles, but in a duel even with a feint it telegraphs itself too much and allows an uncomfortably long amount of time for the opponent to block it. It is rather lovely though for opportunistic attacks in battle.

Really? because I think its most useful in duels.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 07, 2013, 01:12:46 am
Really? because I think its most useful in duels.
I guess to each their own, I just either prefer feinting between the left/overheads and ending up with either/or, or going for a right swing then changing into a stab, every time I've feinted into a right swing it never seems to work for me unless I let them fall into a rhythm and they are as bad as me  :lol:


EDIT: I mean, every time I've ever dueled a one hander, I've been able to block their right swings easier then any of the other swings and so-rarely die from such a swing, but maybe that is just dumb luck or me just subconsciously liking blocking in that direction more). I'm not saying it is a bad attack direction, just seems a bit harder to feint out with it when compared to other options, the reach is beautiful though.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 07, 2013, 01:13:03 am
What? I leveled a 1h no shield to almost level 33, forgive me for wanting to play something different. Sure, 1h no shield is not the strongest class in battle, which is by far my favourite game mode, but you can't seriously expect or want it to be. I got tired of playing a class that was hard to play in my preferred game mode and using my teamplay focused style.

Besides, I am only saying that 1h animations are awesome and that 1h no shield does actually have an advantage mechanic wise compared to 1h/shield and 2h. I am not saying the class is OP, only that it isn't notably UP. No need for the ad hominem.
Yeah, sorry, now that I'm thinking of it I'm pretty sure it's Bjord I'm thinking of. Sorry, but tbh you guys are similar in a lot of ways.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Vodner on March 07, 2013, 01:16:11 am
I really like the right swing in duel.

With a fast (101+ speed) thrustable one-hander, you can face your left side towards a player, oscillate between thrusts and right swings a couple times (which just looks like you are wiggling a thrust), and then bring your right swing in hard for full damage and max speed bonus. It's not nearly as good as the equivalent 2h feint (and is probably worse than the thrust-left-thrust and overhead-left-overhead feints), but it seems to catch people off guard occasionally.

Feints aside, with decent ath or a long 1h the right swing makes for a powerful range-game option against players who underestimate its reach.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 07, 2013, 01:17:15 am
I guess to each their own, I just either prefer feinting between the left/overheads and ending up with either/or, or going for a right swing then changing into a stab, every time I've feinted into a right swing it never seems to work for me unless I let them fall into a rhythm and they are as bad as me  :lol:

I use it mostly to be able to play the range game against 2h/poles. That being said, I am not the best at dueling with one handers, so there is that.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Casimir on March 07, 2013, 01:19:32 am
Yeah, sorry, now that I'm thinking of it I'm pretty sure it's Bjord I'm thinking of. Sorry, but tbh you guys are similar in a lot of ways.

Biggest insult in cRPG?
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 07, 2013, 01:25:31 am
If we think about 1h or maybe even 2h cavalry, we find the most op class today. Haters gonna hate for me saying that but it is what it is. Damage reduction to those weapons on horseback would do the trick.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Matey on March 07, 2013, 01:28:32 am
If we think about 1h or maybe even 2h cavalry, we find the most op class today. Haters gonna hate for me saying that but it is what it is. Damage reduction to those weapons on horseback would do the trick.

remove horses from the game. problem solved.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Teeth on March 07, 2013, 01:31:02 am
Yeah, sorry, now that I'm thinking of it I'm pretty sure it's Bjord I'm thinking of. Sorry, but tbh you guys are similar in a lot of ways.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 07, 2013, 01:33:27 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Was that a too obvious try at pissing someone off or weren't you a merc and therefore you didn't feel like taking it seriously?
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Casimir on March 07, 2013, 01:33:59 am
If we think about 1h or maybe even 2h cavalry, we find the most op class today. Haters gonna hate for me saying that but it is what it is. Damage reduction to those weapons on horseback would do the trick.

2h cav op!!
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: San on March 07, 2013, 01:39:05 am
I think right swing is good, but definitely situational. I use all my swings quite a bit, including right swing. I find myself regretting using right swing all the time, while getting more utility out of the others. That is why I 'hate' the right swing.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Nehvar on March 07, 2013, 01:43:50 am
I´m playing my lvl 30 18/18 1h shield alt at the moment and it is more effective than my lvl 33 main 2h spammer.

I make more points, survive longer and can slaughter archer folks easily. It definitily does not need any kind of a buff. It´s fine as it is.

I´m even thinking about respeccing my main to 1h shield once I reach lvl 34, because it´s so much more effective on battle mode.

Hah! Mine is Lv30 18/18 too.  I don't intend to respec to shielder; I like swinging a sword with two-hands too much I guess.  It definitely is easier to do well as a shielder in my experience though.  At the very least it's nice to not have to dance around constantly like some spastic ADHD sufferer because of all the missiles flying around.

EDIT: spelling
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Matey on March 07, 2013, 02:43:07 am
I think right swing is good, but definitely situational. I use all my swings quite a bit, including right swing. I find myself regretting using right swing all the time, while getting more utility out of the others. That is why I 'hate' the right swing.

thats cause you use a steel pick and the right swing still has no range on a steel pick.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: rustyspoon on March 07, 2013, 03:51:47 am
Threads like this are stupid. If you believe that shielders are OP, you are also dumb.

Overall the classes have been pretty well balanced for a while. Sure there needs to be some tweaking here and there, (mostly with sweetspots) but they're pretty good overall.

I consider 2h the middle-of-the-road class. It's good at everything, but not great at anything. It has good animations, good speed, good length, good damage...etc. It's also the reason why I find 2h boring as fuck, but that's just me.

Polearms have the best utility weapons and the best support weapons. Polearms are on the slower end, but most have pretty good length and overall they have really good damage. They do have the worst animations overall in my opinion though.

1h has the worst damage, the worst length, the fastest weapons, perfect blocking from the front, ranged defense and the second best animations in the game. I say second best as 1h animations are very situational. Each animation is fantastic in certain situations, and shitty in other situations.

So looking it the classes as a whole, 2h is the middle of the road class and both poles and 1-handers are min-maxed to a degree. They're great in some situations, not so great at others.

This whole conversation is stupid anyway, since it mostly comes down to the individual players. This mod would be so much better if all this e-peen class bullshit stopped coming up all the time...
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: San on March 07, 2013, 04:07:15 am
thats cause you use a steel pick and the right swing still has no range on a steel pick.

I used that weapon maybe 4-5 months ago? Even so, overhead still worked much better.

@Rusty, I find healthy discussion of the metagame part of it all, too. I like a lot of this theorycrafting stuff. (of course with broken crpg player English)
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Berserkadin on March 07, 2013, 11:34:35 am
You basically rq'd 1h no shield, just saying.
EDIT: Wait, on second thought I'm pretty sure it's Bjord (who sucked hard at it) or Duke (who just sucks hard) who GTX it.
Bjord played 1h no shield, he didn't suck hard, he rather topped the scoreboards with it.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Ronin on March 07, 2013, 11:42:57 am
What?
Oops. :oops: You're right. I was referring to siege gamemode. People just tend to spam more and get more kills, mainly 2h/pole are better at it.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Joseph Porta on March 07, 2013, 11:46:27 am
Bjord played 1h no shield, he didn't suck hard, he rather topped the scoreboards with it.

Yes Zlisch, I don't know where you got that from..  :shock: besides, do you ever play on EU1?
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: [ptx] on March 07, 2013, 12:02:38 pm
Sure, classes are as balanced now as they have ever been, probably, and it is possible to be succesful and do good with any class.

What still differs is the amount of effort required to play each class. 2h, especially when using a greatsword of some sort or another, takes by far the least effort to achieve this. Stat changes or anything won't change this, it depends purely on the metagame and animations.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Corsair831 on March 07, 2013, 12:13:15 pm
shielder the strongest class, that made me laugh

game is infantry based basically 90% now, best weapon for infantry fight is obviously the longspear, take some tincan with it, = strongest class

best target switching / damage, gives cavalry protection, tincan protects against arrows, since turnrate nerf you can facestab with it

Only reason it's the strongest class is because armour is so insanely freakin huge in crpg, any class that can feasibly take more armour and get away with it whilst still remaining effective has an instant advantage
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Rebelyell on March 07, 2013, 12:32:30 pm
shielder the strongest class, that made me laugh

game is infantry based basically 90% now, best weapon for infantry fight is obviously the longspear, take some tincan with it, = strongest class

best target switching / damage, gives cavalry protection, tincan protects against arrows, since turnrate nerf you can facestab with it

Only reason it's the strongest class is because armour is so insanely freakin huge in crpg, any class that can feasibly take more armour and get away with it whilst still remaining effective has an instant advantage

stab in that game is just broken
look at teeth, that guy makes me sick,
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Ego_HRE on March 07, 2013, 12:36:02 pm
I think he means those shilder, which i see yesterday on servers with crossbow,1h sword,steel shild in heavy armor.
Btw it is a easy class...they r faster...indestructible shilds...only one button to block :mrgreen:...can fight better in tight spaces(important 4 siege players) and the damage of this 1-hander is near by 2-handers(is this english correctly?)
Ofc..there r 10% which can block without shild...but look how manny ppl play this class?
This should be the answer enough^^
We can see this by the downvotes :mrgreen:
So now show me your downvotes to see that I am right :mrgreen:

That is my personal opinion and i'v got no problem with those ballance...i play a 2h...atm and it is a other same thing :wink:
I think this it was this guy means...so calm down and does not vote him down.
Nobody has deserves this...thx
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Corsair831 on March 07, 2013, 12:52:47 pm
I think he means those shilder, which i see yesterday on servers with crossbow,1h sword,steel shild in heavy armor.
Btw it is a easy class...they r faster...indestructible shilds...only one button to block :mrgreen:...can fight better in tight spaces(important 4 siege players) and the damage of this 1-hander is near by 2-handers(is this english correctly?)
Ofc..there r 10% which can block without shild...but look how manny ppl play this class?
This should be the answer enough^^
We can se this by the downvotes :mrgreen:
So now show me your downvotes to see that I am right :mrgreen:

That is my personal opinion and i'v got no problem with those ballance...i play a 2h...atm and it is a other same thing :wink:
I think this is was this guy means...so calm down and does not vote him down.
Nobody has deserves this...thx

it's not as if blocking is some magical skill which only the rare few possess ... play on nditions for 3 or 4 hours and you'll be as good at blocking as the next guy
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: obitus on March 07, 2013, 01:00:34 pm
shield is easymode as fuck, way moreso than cav.

therefore i am going shield next gen
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: EyeBeat on March 07, 2013, 02:39:13 pm
shield is easymode as fuck, way moreso than cav.

therefore i am going shield next gen

Aren't you built to counter shielders?

Don't get mad because of 2 HA on a low populated server...
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 07, 2013, 02:55:10 pm
Yes Zlisch, I don't know where you got that from..  :shock: besides, do you ever play on EU1?
Not really, but every time I saw him on any server with that build he didn't perform very well.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 07, 2013, 02:59:56 pm
shield is easymode as fuck, way moreso than cav.

therefore i am going shield next gen

Coming from a courser gank cav that when dismounted uses a glaive and doesn't block at all. lol
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Prpavi on March 07, 2013, 03:08:11 pm
Coming from a courser gank cav that when dismounted uses a glaive and doesn't block at all. lol

well if he play that class, he must know OP when he sees it, now going shielder hmmm... i think he just proved the point of this topic.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Torben on March 07, 2013, 03:10:23 pm
the point of this topic.

was to point out that shielders are the strongest class atm.  not op.  y'all are dramaqueens -.-
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tibe on March 07, 2013, 03:18:30 pm
was to point out that shielders are the strongest class atm.  not op.  y'all are dramaqueens -.-

True, so very true, we are dramaqueens and no its not really that strong. Just regular, acctual shielding(no putting shield in back and fighting only with 1h) is still rather complicated as far as im concerned. Lots of axeusers and cav these days and polearm and 2h users can run circles around you if you dont have enough ath and if you do that means your hits are weaksauce.

 Id say its precicely average class, its got almost equal ammount of pro's and con's as much as im concerned.  To me the strongest would still be 2h.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tzar on March 07, 2013, 03:22:31 pm
Nerf archery  :D
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Prpavi on March 07, 2013, 03:24:55 pm
was to point out that shielders are the strongest class atm.  not op.  y'all are dramaqueens -.-

strongest, OP who cares as long as we can shittalk.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Penitent on March 07, 2013, 03:27:52 pm
A buff to shielders means more shielders which is actually an indirect nerf to archers.

STAHP NERFING ARCHERS ALREADY STAHP
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Ronin on March 07, 2013, 03:43:15 pm
Punching too :D
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tibe on March 07, 2013, 03:57:57 pm
Aye, I remember I when I went from 2h to shielder/1h it was really tough. The ramboing I did with 2h was still fresh in my mind and tried same with shielder, it simply turned me into dogmeat quickly. Never did I really need to use teamwork when I was 2h.  Shielder is teamworkclass. Not that its shit or anything, its just that its true potential just lies in the middle of a messy fight.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Shemaforash on March 07, 2013, 04:02:04 pm
Bjord played 1h no shield, he didn't suck hard, he rather topped the scoreboards with it.

Once you reach a certain point in this game you'll top the scoreboards no matter class. (bagge, me :rolleyes:, chase, bjord, intermezzo, teeth) are examples of these people.


You may downvote me if you want but that's the truth you worse players are afraid to accept  :lol:
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Turboflex on March 07, 2013, 04:28:42 pm
I dare some of the 2h/pole QQers here to go 1h/shield. You think it is so easy and OP, but I have seen a lot of 2h heroes (real good players too) try it, and get very mediocre scores compared to what they got before.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 07, 2013, 04:35:08 pm
I dare some of the 2h/pole QQers here to go 1h/shield. You think it is so easy and OP, but I have seen a lot of 2h heroes (real good players too) try it, and get very mediocre scores compared to what they got before.

I think that has more to do with people not adjusting their play style to fit their class, then whether or not its easy/op. 
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Falka on March 07, 2013, 06:00:31 pm
I dare some of the 2h/pole QQers here to go 1h/shield. You think it is so easy and OP, but I have seen a lot of 2h heroes (real good players too) try it, and get very mediocre scores compared to what they got before.

You can not expect someone who have spent 2k hours as a 2her to perform equally good with new class.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Vodner on March 07, 2013, 06:06:32 pm
You can not expect someone who have spent 2k hours as a 2her to perform equally good with new class.
I think it's downright silly that somebody would sink 2000 hours into a single melee class, while barely touching the other two. That's the sort of thing that leads to all the single-class lobbying we have.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 07, 2013, 06:31:32 pm
I think it's downright silly that somebody would sink 2000 hours into a single melee class, while barely touching the other two. That's the sort of thing that leads to all the single-class lobbying we have.

But people do.

I think at this point i've played:
1h No Sheild
1h/xbow
1h/xbow(HX)
1h/pole(aka Hoplite)
1h/pole(Cav)
2h/pole
2h
2h (cav)
2h/xbow
2h/xbow(HX)
2h/archer
Pole
Pole(Cav)
Thrower/1h
Archer/2h

And of all of these classes, I like 2h the most. I just glance/wiff/take to long to kill shit as a 1h and it, in general, doesn't allow for error like 2h does.

Of course, I've played maybe 3 of 27 gens as "Pure Builds" with the rest as hybrids of some sort(or on alts)
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: bavvoz on March 07, 2013, 06:36:21 pm
I think its quite balanced. Im probably gonna be hated by some for saying this but if u get beat by a shielder/2h/pole/peasant or whatever class u call op, perhaps its so simple as the other player was better than u.


Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Kafein on March 07, 2013, 07:04:16 pm
Please, all players feeling shielders became too powerful for some reason, create a shielder alt if you don't have one and play it. I asked Tindel (he respecced afaik) about it and he said it was fresh and relaxing or something close.

If you like it better, good, that might partially fix the metagame. If you don't, then maybe it allowed you to see for yourself what actually happened.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Zanze on March 07, 2013, 08:47:16 pm
We do less damage, at less range, and at less movement speed then two-handers. In return, we get directional immunity to arrows and if you know when to block, a refillable hp bar.

The reasons shielders top the charts is because we live longer compared to 2h's who are usually peppered by arrows, or easy targets for spearmen. Live longer = more score. Stop bringing swords, bring axes or mauls.

Also, the screenshot happens to be biased as well. Clan working together would alter the score a tad.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 07, 2013, 08:53:40 pm
Stop bringing swords, bring axes or mauls.

Then you just die to the people who brought swords...
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Phew on March 07, 2013, 09:02:37 pm
Then you just die to the people who brought swords...

If only 2h swords didn't take up 4 slots....Then 2h-ers could bring an axe/morningstar/mallet/fauchard/shield to handle shielders or cav or archers. Shielders figured out a long time ago how to bring multiple tools for multiple jobs, but some 2h-ers must be so attached to their lightsabers, they couldn't imagine ever sheathing it.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tindel on March 07, 2013, 09:17:50 pm
Yeah i planned for a long time to get lvl35 as a 2hander and be a killing machine(spammer) But i have shelved that plan, i think i will aim for enjoyment and variety instead!
Right now im playing 1h/shield for first time in 11 generations, its a bit to relearn thats for sure xD

Pros: Can block several strikes at once, can block ranged, short weapon (warhammer) means i dont get crowded by teammates anymore(thank you)

Cons: Dismal range, weird animations i have to get used too, no sense of swing sweetspots, shield slows me down

btw warhammer is OP, nerf me
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Malaclypse on March 07, 2013, 09:27:15 pm
Yeah i planned for a long time to get lvl35 as a 2hander and be a killing machine(spammer) But i have shelved that plan, i think i will aim for enjoyment and variety instead!


Awwwwww yeah. I'm currently 18/24 polearm (119)/1h (125) hybrid, and am leaning towards maxing my WM and boosting polearm up to 125 and getting 93 2h for versatility to help to keep me from getting bored with the build. I feel like if you're building high level, you've got to work some hybridization in just to keep the toon enjoyable to play. I really wish now that I had invested a few points into Power Throw so I could get up to 4-5 PT @ Level 35, but I guess there's always training lessons.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 07, 2013, 09:28:49 pm
If only 2h swords didn't take up 4 slots....Then 2h-ers could bring an axe/morningstar/mallet/fauchard/shield to handle shielders or cav or archers. Shielders figured out a long time ago how to bring multiple tools for multiple jobs, but some 2h-ers must be so attached to their lightsabers, they couldn't imagine ever sheathing it.

I was just addressing what Zan said, which was stop bringing swords. He didn't say bring an axe and a sword. Personally, when I play 2h I have very few problems with most shielders, all you need to do is hilt slash, s key, and kick. Not to mention in a team fight, you don't need an axe and on a 1v1 any shielder that is worth bringing an axe against is just going to put their shield on their back anyway.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on March 07, 2013, 09:41:56 pm
Ive played both 2h and sheilder. Even thogh my sheilder is more so a gimp sheilder cause hes just the melle form of my cav build sheilding is certainly much easier theres no question of it. If you use a decent sheild the only way you get hit is if you bite on a feign, and you have to be really bad for that to happen. Heck i use a steel sheild which is slow as shit(making it alot easier to get hit) and that never really happens to me, just hold block until you hear your shield get hit, dont rely on the visual which may deceive you. So ya they cant hit you if your decent and as a 2h i was always less used to blocking against 1 handers than 2 handers, it seemed harder with the overhand and right swing or w/e so its harder in that regaurd too. And ya an axe or a steel pick hits really hard the damage isnt really a problem.

The only problem you might have is if you dont have enough atlethics and they backpedal spam you or kicks can be somewhat of an issue if you use a short weapon. Given me beinga cav build i have some athletics problems with backpedal spam and with using a steel pick kicking can be a problem, but a pure sheilder spec shouldnt have either of these problems as a sheilder should have alot of athletics and should carry mor ethan 1 weapon, if i remember bale carris a blunt weapon for tin cans, an axe for sheilds, and a longer sword for backpedal spammers. The way i see it sheilder is a more noob friendly build that is easy to play but maybe a bit more difficult to get a larger number of kills due to weapon length. 2 handers are much harder to play but if your good the class has more potential to get more kills.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Osiris on March 07, 2013, 09:50:10 pm
so what im getting from this thread is this

2handers saying SHIELDING IS EZ MODE OP
Shielders saying 2H IS EZ MODE OP

The era of 2h heroes being by far the best class is over. we don't want to return to that :D

The game is finely balanced in my opinion. A nerf to shielder's would be stupid.

Personally by far the best class ive used for killing and points was 27-12 with a mighty GLB. As a shielder i usually do ok sometimes great sometimes terrible but i always feel more useful to my team (unless im a longspear guy ^^). I have more fun on a lot of maps as a shielder, to me standing in the middle of a clusterfuck (like the map with the bridge) and timing when to hit and when to shield is the most fun i have <3 deciding when i can open up and hit that guy attacking my team mate without getting my ass speared or hit in return is intense and not as easy as you thing. When i am 2h im limited to rambo flanks or high str high armour.

Other people find 2h the height of skill and fun and others pike and others pew pewing, thats what makes cRPG battles so much fun :D
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 07, 2013, 10:54:26 pm
sword and board, two handers, and poles are pretty balanced IMO.

8 pages later, and people are beginning to agree.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tristan on March 07, 2013, 11:44:51 pm
I think people stacked up polearms because they finally realised it was the only way to counter the powerful cavalry.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Ronin on March 07, 2013, 11:47:42 pm
I think people stacked up polearms because they finally realised it was the only way to counter the powerful cavalry.
Archers are dangerous too.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Jarlek on March 08, 2013, 01:17:36 am
I think people stacked up polearms because they finally realised it was the only way to counter the powerful cavalry.
PT 8 and MW throwing axes or jarids.

Come bump me :)
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: EyeBeat on March 08, 2013, 01:41:49 am
People are saying shielders are not a rambo class but myself and Matey when he was a shielder almost always played it like it was.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Matey on March 08, 2013, 03:50:15 am
People are saying shielders are not a rambo class but myself and Matey when he was a shielder almost always played it like it was.

ive gone back to shielder... and oh am i ever hating it so far. i keep trying to rambo at a lower level and i dont have the athletics or shield skill to make it work... then theres the mauls and cav and ughhhhh.. i dunno i can even make it to 30!
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Shemaforash on March 08, 2013, 03:53:18 am
People are saying shielders are not a rambo class but myself and Matey when he was a shielder almost always played it like it was.

It's perfect for ramboing.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: San on March 08, 2013, 04:04:39 am
ive gone back to shielder... and oh am i ever hating it so far. i keep trying to rambo at a lower level and i dont have the athletics or shield skill to make it work... then theres the mauls and cav and ughhhhh.. i dunno i can even make it to 30!

your fun may return with this:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tibe on March 08, 2013, 07:22:41 am
(click to show/hide)

Yes, all is finally somewhat good in crpg classbalancing. Shielder is finally competitive. This makes me want to go back to 2h now. Since it is slightly less of a easymode now.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Matey on March 08, 2013, 08:37:39 am
your fun may return with this:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



ehh never cared for it much. I kinda miss my grosse messer but i have a broad one handed battle axe that does the trick and i love my long espada despite how shitty its damage is.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 08, 2013, 08:39:13 am

ehh never cared for it much. I kinda miss my grosse messer but i have a broad one handed battle axe that does the trick and i love my long espada despite how shitty its damage is.

Get a side sword.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: donib on March 08, 2013, 09:29:38 am
Get a side sword.
Get a good mace
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Matey on March 08, 2013, 10:19:33 am
i thought about loomin a side sword or a paramerion... but i have two triple loomed 1 handers and i borrowed a +3 italian sword from the armoury to play with, so i loomed armour instead... oddly enough I hate the italian sword.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Prpavi on March 08, 2013, 10:29:27 am
i thought about loomin a side sword or a paramerion... but i have two triple loomed 1 handers and i borrowed a +3 italian sword from the armoury to play with, so i loomed armour instead... oddly enough I hate the italian sword.


and the Italian sword hates you too!! Rasict!

just cuz its too greasy, throws its hands around while he talks way too loud and shouts "Ciao Bella" to every spicies on the planet with a vagina is no reason to hate man!
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: rufio on March 08, 2013, 10:36:40 am
1handers with shield are def one of the strongest classes, rape shit pretty hard on my alt, with out shield u have to work with your weap getting stunned alot but its fine. damage was fine before buffs to, people just nabs , and people who still call 2handed op are even bigger nabs :D
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: rustyspoon on March 08, 2013, 01:27:19 pm
so what im getting from this thread is this

2handers saying SHIELDING IS EZ MODE OP
Shielders saying 2H IS EZ MODE OP

People saying that every class other than their main is easy? IMPOSSIBLE!

CRPG players have too much integrity for such claims. Trufactstm
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Jarlek on March 08, 2013, 03:22:49 pm
People saying that every class other than their main is easy? IMPOSSIBLE!

CRPG players have too much integrity for such claims. Trufactstm
My main is 27/12 polearm build and I think it's way too easy. Am I just weird?  :?

Then again, I change class every gen so...
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 08, 2013, 09:10:20 pm
I think literally every class is easy if you play it for the specific role's strength... Which makes sense.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on March 09, 2013, 04:51:00 pm
for the record, I don't believe in 'easy' modes, a 2h can be shot down without getting any points making it 'hard' but put a shielder with him and he is a killing machine making it 'easy'. But leave a shielder alone against a lancer and he is pretty screwed. Teamwork is what wins battles, but that's not 'easy' mode that's just being sensible and most shielders I have seen are team players.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: NuberT on March 09, 2013, 05:07:13 pm
my opinion is biased, because I hate fighting shielders like forever :rolleyes:.

as this picture proves:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Ras_FrenzYYY on March 09, 2013, 05:28:43 pm
The only travesty with the shielders is  that they can chase down archers.which is  totally incorrect and destroys the whole tactics of the battlefield.

agility and shield cant go together


Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Gurnisson on March 09, 2013, 11:44:33 pm
People complaining about 1H being op; l2p
People complaining about 1H being up; l2p
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Casimir on March 09, 2013, 11:57:14 pm
People not playing 2h cav: l2p
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Tydeus on March 10, 2013, 04:17:27 am
Truth be told, every class has its gems and its turds. The real men kill those of gems, with turds... or something along those lines.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Berserkadin on March 10, 2013, 07:10:18 am
Obviously, it's easier to just go bitch on the forums then l2p.
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Prpavi on March 10, 2013, 07:52:09 am
Obviously, it's easier to just go bitch on the forums then l2p.


most of the people posting here play this mod for 2+ years so yeah pretty much everybody can play nowdays.

YOU COMMENT IZ INVALID!!!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: so are shielders the strongest class now or what?
Post by: Berserkadin on March 10, 2013, 09:54:59 am

most of the people posting here play this mod for 2+ years so yeah pretty much everybody can play nowdays.

YOU COMMENT IZ INVALID!!!  :mrgreen:
Then clearly l2p isn't the issue  :wink: