cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Aethelwolf on February 27, 2013, 02:14:16 pm
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Hello I need some help with my build. I'm, currently using this:
Strength:18
Agility:19
One Handed:144
Weapon Master:5
Athletics:6
Shield:4
Power Strike:6
(8 converted skill points)
Just for you to know, I'm aiming for some type of offensive shielder, so I need some speed for that to mantain the distance from my foe because I'm using the military pick or one handed battle axe.
I want my build to look like this on lvl 30:
Strength:18
Agility:21
...but i dont know where should i put those 2 remaining skill points. I think putting them in IF is useless because my shield is my armor. I also use light-medium armor.
What do you think about this build? Could you suggest anything for me? Or any advices from skilled shield users?
Thank you in advance,
Aethelwolf
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You posted in the wrong section . I think any admin will transfer your post in the good section
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IF is never useless and don't expect your shield to block everything
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You should only have 1 remaining skill point, provided of course that you would get 1 more athlethics if you get 21 agility, which you should. The build is looking good so far. The usefulness of Ironflesh should not be underestimated however. Some shielders prefer 18/18 at level 30 with a lot more IF.
This one remaining skill point could be put in shield, WM and IF, I'd pick IF out of those but it isn't going to matter much. Another option however, is keeping 1 skill point unspent and do a 21/21 build at level 32. I don't know how you are doing loom wise, but a high level build is a significant advantage. Again, some shielders would prefer an 18/21 build at level 32 with a lot more IF.
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I'm not saying that IF is useless. But in this case I think the IF wouldnt make much difference since i use light gear mostly
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one handers generally took the most teamhits cos they fight close. and ofcourse a one hander can fight against 5 men around him also. so he needs ironflesh too. if you use a weapon that hit pierce or blunt, I sugesst you to make it 15/21. but if u use a weapon that hits cut damage, u need at least 21 str against heavy armoured guyz :wink:
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It s true that 1 If seems to be useless but sometimes it makes the difference beetween the victory and the defeat. If is really usefull when it s maximized, in my opinion, but you could use an average amount of it too .
Also shielders need ofc an excellent ath to turn when you re surrounded.
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Anytime you are blackbarred instead of dead, IF is useful.
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For an agility-heavy shielder, IF is usually the different between being 1-shotted or 2-shotted by a 2-hander. So if a few skill points can effectively DOUBLE your durability, that's a good deal. And don't think for a second that having a shield means the shield is your only defense; between teamhits, random projectiles, enemies backstabbing you, kicks, attacks that inexplicably go through your block, mis-timing your attacks....you still get hit A LOT. My shield outlives me at least 90% of the time, and I'm only moderately aggressive.
That said, I'm 18/21 at lvl 32 and no IF, but I chose to have throwing and a lot of shield skill and weapon master. If you are pure 1h, lvl 32+ builds like 21/21 or 18/24 with IF and foregoing some WM/shield are very effective.
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Just some notes about armor for you to think about. Also keep in mind that all my gear is MW so this may skew things a bit.
With 18 str, 0 IF and wearing a gambeson; the average 2-hander/pole user can 2-shot me.
With the same build and wearing a heraldric mail with tabard; the average 2-hander/pole user will still 2-shot me.
If I was to go 6 IF, SOME 2-hander/pole users may need 3 hits to kill me, but I still think a large amount would do it in 2. (At least in NA)
With light armor, IF is pretty useful against arrows though.
For a 1-hander, 4 shield skill is useless in my opinion. Your shield will break so fast there's no point in even having it slow you down. May as well invest those points in something else and drop the shield. Most shields don't become great until around 6 shield skill. And a MW one is practically unbreakable against everything but an axe once you get 7 shield skill and higher. At that point, you become practically invulnerable from the front. So as long as your teammates aren't retarded and don't constantly hit you in the back, you can do quite well.
For your last two points, I'd put one in athletics and probably the last in shield. 1 point of athletics is worth more than 1 IF.
18/21 is the overall best 1-h build in my opinion, but it is a different playstyle than most.
18/18 is also pretty beastly and I'm surprised that more people don't do it. 18/18 with a warhammer is pretty ridiculous.
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18/21 is the overall best 1-h build in my opinion, but it is a different playstyle than most.
18/18 is also pretty beastly and I'm surprised that more people don't do it. 18/18 with a warhammer is pretty ridiculous.
I've done every lvl 30 1h/shield build between 27/12 and 18/18 (inclusive) as a 1h, and performed by far the best with 18/18. Contrast that with polearm, where I started 21/18 and added 3 str each gen, up to 33/9, and more strength just made it easier each time. 1h just works better with more athletics, since basically you can only hit people that are between your 9 O'clock and your 1 O'clock. 2h Doesn't have to worry as much about that, since their 'arc of death' is like 270 degrees.
As far as Ironflesh, getting 2-shot is a luxury on NA. With 53 HP (no IF) and 57 body armor/61 head armor, I've gotten 1-shot by everything from Awlpikes to Great Sword thrusts to Miaodaos. Some IF would probably turn a lot of those 1-shots to 2-shots.
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You two guys run way too light.
I rarely get 2 shotted let alone 1, and I don't see other heavy shielders like San getting 2-shotted either.
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18/21 is my favorite shielder build, when you hit level 33 it's really good. If you ever hit 34-35 you could have 7 riding as well.
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You two guys run way too light.
I rarely get 2 shotted let alone 1, and I don't see other heavy shielders like San getting 2-shotted either.
I've done a few gens with a build like yours; 65+ armor, 70+ hp, high PS. Great in a clusterf#ck, but I didn't like getting backpedaled to death by every agility player, kited by every archer, mauled repeatedly, etc. I only play siege, which is so low population lately that it's basically a series of duels, so the agility build seems to be most effective. Heavy 1h/shield works for plenty of people, but didn't work for me.
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I've done a few gens with a build like yours; 65+ armor, 70+ hp, high PS. Great in a clusterf#ck, but I didn't like getting backpedaled to death by every agility player, kited by every archer, mauled repeatedly, etc. I only play siege, which is so low population lately that it's basically a series of duels, so the agility build seems to be most effective. Heavy 1h/shield works for plenty of people, but didn't work for me.
Turboflex is also in a clan that revolves around teamwork. The heavier str build one handers work a lot better when you have a piker next to you. But I agree, in a 1v1 having less then 6 athletics is pretty brutal.
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Strength 1h is definitely great in duels, too. For the OP, I would put the points into shield or an offensive stat, unless you're planning for a later build with more bulk, then IF is fine.
Balanced is overall best, and it's only up to preference after 18 strength for which works with your playstyle. I have 25/15 with 56 body armor, and I take a good 3 solid 2h hits to kill. With good footwork and non-high damage 2hs, you're looking at 4-5 hits. Shield + IF combination is great, but low IF isn't too noticeable.
I used to be 27/12 a year ago, then respecced to 24/15 right when respec was released, and performed noticeably better. I reckon it will be the same if I went to 21/21 or some other similar pure melee build.
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I've done a few gens with a build like yours; 65+ armor, 70+ hp, high PS. Great in a clusterf#ck, but I didn't like getting backpedaled to death by every agility player, kited by every archer, mauled repeatedly, etc. I only play siege, which is so low population lately that it's basically a series of duels, so the agility build seems to be most effective. Heavy 1h/shield works for plenty of people, but didn't work for me.
That's why I carry throwing weps :) , if some s-key guy is pissing me off I can turn around get some distance, take them out and pop a shot or two at him, that brings them back real fast. I feel naked without throwing, adds so many tactical options for a heavy shielder that if used properly you don't miss athletics.
I did better as 24-12 than 21-15 even, but when I got to 33 I added 3 agi instead of 3 more str even tho I was tempted.
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That's why I carry throwing weps :) , if some s-key guy is pissing me off I can turn around get some distance, take them out and pop a shot or two at him, that brings them back real fast. I feel naked without throwing, adds so many tactical options for a heavy shielder that if used properly you don't miss athletics.
I did better as 24-12 than 21-15 even, but when I got to 33 I added 3 agi instead of 3 more str even tho I was tempted.
I have seen you (or another nh guy, sorry you all look alike :)) try this move against me many times. I don't think its as effective as you guys give it credit for. If I am skeying a shielder, I don just jam the s down but I keep to the distance of the 2h/pole. Thus if you try and switch to a throwing axe, I am able to get a free hit in while your shield is not active. Then again I usually have atleast 6 athletics (usually 7) which is probably more then most two handers, and as such can't get back in range as quickly.
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That's why I carry throwing weps :) , if some s-key guy is pissing me off I can turn around get some distance, take them out and pop a shot or two at him, that brings them back real fast. I feel naked without throwing, adds so many tactical options for a heavy shielder that if used properly you don't miss athletics.
Throwing is indeed awesome. A mere 4-5 skill points and like 100 wpf for the ability to kill horses, kiters, reloading xbowers, maulers, jedi blockers...not to mention the melee mode on +3 Heavy Throwing Axes is really damn good. Although I don't think throwing is much of an asset against your typical 8 athletics glaive/LHB backpedaler; they strive to keep you at about 1.3-1.5m range, which is too far for 1h melee and too close for throwing.
I guess the heavy vs. light shielder debate comes down to what you find more annoying; getting 1-2 shot, or getting kited/backpedaled. There is also the offensive damage output difference, which comes down to weapon choice more than build for me. Even an agility shielder is going to wreck people with a warhammer, and even a strength 1h will need 8+ swings to down a 2h hero with most 1h swords.
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I have seen you (or another nh guy, sorry you all look alike :)) try this move against me many times. I don't think its as effective as you guys give it credit for. If I am skeying a shielder, I don just jam the s down but I keep to the distance of the 2h/pole. Thus if you try and switch to a throwing axe, I am able to get a free hit in while your shield is not active. Then again I usually have atleast 6 athletics (usually 7) which is probably more then most two handers, and as such can't get back in range as quickly.
I prolly wouldn't use it against you or similar skilled players who are more proactive in using range/speed difference, you gotta duel those guys, and rely on holds and shield to force closer range (not always easy). Usually just the most obnoxious, mindless s-key guys who do basically have it jammed are the beneficiaries. Also the throwers' ace card is that if it fails cuz the guy does react and jump back in quickly, you can try to avoid getting caught by hitting x and turning your throwing axe into a decent melee weapon, which aften surprises a lot of players who are running up to bump you and nets you a free hit (short wep thats hard to track visually).
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you want best shielder build as offence shielder go 21-18 best build ever now depend on what level you want to go too but level 30 or 31 people usualy go as a offensive shielder 21-15 or 18-18 both very good also on the weapon type you are using...my personal opinion as arowaine the 1hand shielder one of the best in the game as far as i know....
point spend like this 18-18 level 30
6iron flesh
6power strike
6shield or 5
6ath
5 or 6 weapon master depending on what you prefer
wpf all 1hand
ps: there is a lot of factor too considering what weapon you are using what kind of player you are and also what ping you have too... so well here is the best built i can suggest you so far with all the info...have fun
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21/18 was bliss for me as a STF test, and I modeled my post-30 main off of it with great success (Now 24/18). I do recommend that, or a tankish 21/15 if you play with teammates or use a long weapon.
IF highly depends on what you want to do as a shielder. High armor does suggest a high IF for the HP, but you can skimp both armor and IF with an AGI build just fine if you don't perform in the front-lines (Your Teammates will get you killed with inevitable TWs if you lack HP and Armor) and skirmish on the sidelines. 7ATHL and higher is quite lovely with either really long weapons or the super-stumpy ones as you can dictate how you fight.
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I find Ironflesh to be an essential part of infantry. Maybe it just suits my gameplay, but one of the main jobs of the infantry is to survive. Ironflesh definitely makes a big difference, especially when you got shot by archers. And as an infantry, you will get shot by archers.
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You two guys run way too light.
I rarely get 2 shotted let alone 1, and I don't see other heavy shielders like San getting 2-shotted either.
One point you're missing though...someone actually has to hit me two times first. I don't get hit often.
Also, PS scales very, very poorly with 1-handers. My 27 str build doesn't really kill people any faster than my 18 str build. Lower str, higher athletics makes it easier to utilize held attacks, speed bonus and the shorter blunt/pierce weapons.
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Well you don't play battle & strat very much. A LOT easier to stay alive on siege where there's just one direction enemies are coming from, basically all infantry, and limited ability to outflank due to terrain obstacles. In battle/strat lines actually form, you got a lot more archers and cav coming at you from all directions, and you depend on your teammates to guard your flanks, not inanimate objects, which means people get side attacks on you when your mates inevitably drift out of position, die, or just let guys walk by them, hell and that's if they are not just outright TWing you.
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I'm fairly tempted to get two PT and Masterwork War Darts @ 35. It'd be hilariously ineffective against anyone but the lightest armored folk, but at least it would be hilarious.
As a general rule for having a shield and being mainly 1-h, without advocating any stat heavy build set, I'd say have at least 18 STR 6 PS and 18 Agi 6 Ath. From there you can go 18/18, 21/18, 18/21 and at later levels 24/18, 18/24, 21/21.
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I'm fairly tempted to get two PT and Masterwork War Darts @ 35. It'd be hilariously ineffective against anyone but the lightest armored folk, but at least it would be hilarious
I think that's what Jaich did; he's always throwing darts that mostly glance/do like 2 dmg, but they still stun and I'm sure he gets a few free kills every now and then just from folks that are too busy laughing to pay attention. Although personally, I think if you can't invest more than 2PT, you are better off with a crossbow. Do you already have some Riding Mala? I think 3+ riding would be way more fun than 2 PT.
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I think that's what Jaich did; he's always throwing darts that mostly glance/do like 2 dmg, but they still stun and I'm sure he gets a few free kills every now and then just from folks that are too busy laughing to pay attention. Although personally, I think if you can't invest more than 2PT, you are better off with a crossbow. Do you already have some Riding Mala? I think 3+ riding would be way more fun than 2 PT.
I don't, so my options are p much:
A.) 3 Riding
B.) 3 Ironflesh (currently @ 3)
C.) 2 WM + 1 IF or Shield (would probably add 2h into build @ 93 prof with this option).
D.) 2 PT 1 WM
Riding would definitely add a fun bit of versatility, even if 3 doesn't leave me with a lot of options, though I think it's a moot point, because I'm pretty tempted to just sell all my heirlooms at 35 and buy Training Lessons, go 27/21 or 24/24 hoplite/polearm (max ath/ps, 4 shield with +3 elite cav) for speed + power.
I'd have the same health @ 24 STR no IF as I do with 18 STR 3 IF, and 3 more health than I do now if I go the 9 PS route, being the same speed as I am now or just a bit slower but hitting a lot harder (for the trade off of no longer being a hybrid prof build and having access to all shields).
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When im shielder its either 18-18 or 21-15 7ps 7if 5shield 5ath 5wpm. Its a pretty nice build with heavy loomed armour and a decent weapon. You take a ton of hits before going down.
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looking at all the 21-18 and 18-21 builds seem to sacrifice a lot for some extra speed.
Im curious tho, at what armour weight do you think IF is more beneficial than athletics? I know high str reduces penalties or some such but never sure where the line is :D
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Yeah 4 shield with something like a heavy round is still a lot of shield. Should last you long enough against anything but a shieldbreaker. You shield might be heavily damaged after a decent length fight but you should be able to find something on ground easily by then. If you are are pure shielder without any additional weapons you can grab one of the 2 slot 4 difficulty shields.
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Yeah 4 shield with something like a heavy round is still a lot of shield. Should last you long enough against anything but a shieldbreaker. You shield might be heavily damaged after a decent length fight but you should be able to find something on ground easily by then. If you are are pure shielder without any additional weapons you can grab one of the 2 slot 4 difficulty shields.
Having 4 shield is pretty bad, I can confirm because any decent archer will start shooting at your legs or even be able to shoot ABOVE your shield. Alternatively arbalests can shoot through the shield. Then again if you're a 1h and you have 4 shield skill taking a shield isn't going to hurt, but I recommend taking something with higher resistance.
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Having 4 shield is pretty bad, I can confirm because any decent archer will start shooting at your legs or even be able to shoot ABOVE your shield. Alternatively arbalests can shoot through the shield. Then again if you're a 1h and you have 4 shield skill taking a shield isn't going to hurt, but I recommend taking something with higher resistance.
Shield skill doesn't affect bolt penetration; you just need 20+ shield armor to prevent MW steel bolts fired from MW arbalests from penetrating.
And if you want a durable shield with only 4 skill, the Heavy Board is a solid option. It's more durable with 4 shield skill than my +3 Elite Cavalry Shield is with 7 shield skill. By a lot.
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Plus that board shield will protect your feet if you're that paranoid about super archer snipers.
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Ah well, I'm a cavalry as well so I can't use those.
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Ah well, I'm a cavalry as well so I can't use those.
Heavy Kite/Heater, Fur-covered, and the Norman shields would suit you just fine also. Tough as hell with even 4 skill.
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As a support build, go really shitty armour like basic tunic, high shield skill. It's amazing how many players, even the really good ones, get tunnel vision when they see an 'easy kill'; they'll abandon their team, their formation, their strategy and their skill trying to get your 'easy kill'. Just one guy tempting the other team like that can be very useful.
The pro blocker in peasant garb with a cudgel is the most powerful force on the battlefield; enemies are drawn to him like a moth to a flame, and he just blocks everything while his teammates clean up. The 13 shield trolls can also play this role, although good players have learned to ignore them.
The new 0-slot 1-handers are a great option for long maul users. Broad short/Scottish (or Spathion if it remains 0-slot) , board or plate-covered shield. A fully capable shielder that can crushthrough when necessary.
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Well, 4 shield skill sould be enough if you use a good shield with many hitpoints (especially needed is speed) like the Knightly Heater Shield. I played this shield with 4 shield skill one time and with 5-7 shield skill it's nearly unbreakable in normally melee and just if you DON'T fight against twohanded axe men. Hmm if you can't avoid a fight against an axe man, you could need your manual block skill :mrgreen: or just fight without shield if you think you need it after the fight:)
But all at all your build should be effective and one more thing is, if you use Normally - Heavy Armor
You would have an advantage if your shield breaks. Some players think they can hide behind their shield with light armor like Steppe Armor. Then if their shield breaks they will die immediately! So don't get such a light armor :)
Hope I can help ;)