cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Native_ATS on April 30, 2011, 02:20:37 pm

Title: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Native_ATS on April 30, 2011, 02:20:37 pm
so now you can carry 2 lances into battle, but that takes 4 slots and u end up with just 2 lances...
if you miss your shot with a lance you cant pick it back up.... if you miss your shot with anyother throwing weapon u can pick it back up np...
so i can carry 2 lances into battle but if i miss it is gone forever!
they nerffed damg for lances and the number of lances u can bring to battle as well.
i ask that they kindly let me pick up lances of the floor
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Beowulf on May 04, 2011, 05:49:50 pm
throw-Lances might as well be removed from game sorry to say.. bet cav people r luvin the lance nerf. miss it for that alone.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Diomedes on May 04, 2011, 07:14:52 pm
The extensive nerfing of anti-horse polearms has given horse players a definite edge now (Zanthos: "It's just so easy to kill people man, it's amazing actually").  I vote throwing lances be pickup-able  to give a slightly more balanced check on horses.  Also, it's just silly that they can't be picked up  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Huey Newton on May 04, 2011, 08:44:10 pm
Why are they In the game in tHe first place?

I say leave em or remove em
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Seawied on May 04, 2011, 09:33:46 pm
The extensive nerfing of anti-horse polearms has given horse players a definite edge now (Zanthos: "It's just so easy to kill people man, it's amazing actually").


agreed. With the lack of easily accessible anti-cav weapons, mounted characters will become much more powerful.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: kinngrimm on May 04, 2011, 09:42:45 pm
Pre patch you could have 8 with 4 slots used now altogether 2 in 4 slots?
Very extrem nerf already without seeing the stat changes.

If i use all my slots for throwing lances, i should have at least 4 of them.
2 per 2 slots f.e. .

I accept the argument that u can use it as well as a melee weapon, but it is a very weak melee weapon, perhaps that has to increase a little bit.
Also perhaps make it a little bit longer and faster/stronger for melee.

Perhaps then you can go with 7 requirement instead of 6 as it is now.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Zergmar on May 04, 2011, 10:37:48 pm
Never liked being 1 shot by throwing lances whilst wearing full plate
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Magikarp on May 04, 2011, 10:46:16 pm
The extensive nerfing of anti-horse polearms has given horse players a definite edge now (Zanthos: "It's just so easy to kill people man, it's amazing actually").  I vote throwing lances be pickup-able  to give a slightly more balanced check on horses.  Also, it's just silly that they can't be picked up  :rolleyes:
Are you kidding me? Extended nerfing of anti cav weapons? Point me out one please:
- Throwing weapons are not anti cav weapons, so not to be taken into account.
- Pike didn't get a nerf at all.
- Long Pike was added.
- Archers got buffed
etc.

Plus the fact that Cavalry got a big nerf in this patch, stop whining.

Throwing lances are incredibly overpowered and deserved this nerf. They are probably going to be removed from the game in a future patch anyway.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on May 04, 2011, 10:54:20 pm
Plus the fact that heavy lance Cavalry got a slight nerf in this patch, stop whining.

Fixed it for you :)
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: cmp on May 04, 2011, 10:57:24 pm
Plus the fact that Cavalry got a big nerf in this patch, stop whining.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Magikarp on May 04, 2011, 11:07:52 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Actually, I'm red.

Plate carried me when I was a horseman.
Fixed for you =).

cmpx loves me now, so much fun. Before you know it, all shall fear zeh Magikarp!
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Dravic on May 04, 2011, 11:10:22 pm
As for me, they can also remove throwing lances entirely. It is 1hit1kill weapon, thus OP.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Magikarp on May 04, 2011, 11:13:04 pm
As for me, they can also remove throwing lances entirely. It is 1hit1kill weapon, thus OP.
Yeah, but these little kids need their 1 hit kill skilless weapon.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: cmp on May 04, 2011, 11:13:34 pm
cmpx loves me now, so much fun. Before you know it, all shall fear zeh Magikarp!

Yeah, and to express my <3 I will change your 140° to 90°. Isn't that great?
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Spawny on May 04, 2011, 11:41:19 pm
As for me, they can also remove throwing lances entirely. It is 1hit1kill weapon, thus OP.

Any weapon has the potential to 1 hit kill.

With 7 PS, the high tier polearms and 2h weapons kill can kill in 1 hit and do so most of the time. They're easier to aim too.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Dravic on May 05, 2011, 12:00:14 am
But you can block/dodge them.

Throwing is depending mostly on luck. You can't block/dodge it w/o shield AND they 1hit 90 percent of cRPG population.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: cmp on May 05, 2011, 12:05:06 am
I don't think throwing lances are 1hit kills with the new stats.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Diomedes on May 05, 2011, 02:01:19 am
Are you kidding me? Extended nerfing of anti cav weapons? Point me out one please:
- Throwing weapons are not anti cav weapons, so not to be taken into account.
They actually are pretty good anti-cav weapons, and they certainly should be taken into account.  Post-patch they generally cost more, do less, and their nerfing is the very reason for this thread!
- Pike didn't get a nerf at all.
Except that it can't be carried off-hand and so, now, most pikes require a dedicated pikeman to carry them.  This has dramatically reduced the number of pikemen and thus removes the primary check on aggressive cavalry.
- Long Pike was added.
I have yet to see a single long pike.  Probably because it requires a dedicated pikeman to wield it effectively (see^)
- Archers got buffed
In some ways, yes, but it's also way harder to be an archer and engage effectively in close-combat.  Quite the incentive to archer now isn't it?  No.  The patch isn't nearly so black and what as you seem to suppose.
etc.[/color]

fix'd
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Native_ATS on May 05, 2011, 03:27:18 am
I don't think throwing lances are 1hit kills with the new stats.
no... they cant.... am high pt, i cant 1 shot shit... and since they rasied the str on most weapons people have even more hp....
over nerffed... there is little to no up side for throwing, none if your throwing jarids and down
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: IG_Saint on May 05, 2011, 03:48:32 am
Am I the only person that uses a throwing lance for a hoplite character? Use the lance as a spear till the end game, then start looking for a dangerous tincan to throw at?
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Seawied on May 05, 2011, 08:31:53 am
fix'd

Oh diomedes. If we were to meet in person, I'm pretty sure I would leg-hump you! Its like you type exactly whats on my mind!

+1
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Cyclopsided on May 05, 2011, 08:55:08 am
Am I the only person that uses a throwing lance for a hoplite character? Use the lance as a spear till the end game, then start looking for a dangerous tincan to throw at?
I did for a while prepatch. best role-playing hoplite character.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Casimir on May 05, 2011, 09:42:22 am
Meh of you wanna kill cav take a pike. Throwing lances were for trolling. You dont need to be a dedicated pikeman to use a pike. Just drop it to use your melee weapon then go grab it when the fight is over.

Just stops yoj pulling a pike out your arse.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Gorath on May 05, 2011, 03:39:15 pm
Throwing lances just needed to be removed.  But IF they were nerfed to hell that's a start.  Throwing needed to get beat down by the nerf bat like a white kid in the ghetto.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Huey Newton on May 05, 2011, 04:35:52 pm
Throwing lances just needed to be removed.  But IF they were nerfed to hell that's a start.  Throwing needed to get beat down by the nerf bat like a white kid in the ghetto.

lool +1
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on May 05, 2011, 06:37:28 pm
diomedes, when you say a dedicated pikeman...do you mean a dedicated polearm guy?
Cuz iv got a dedicated polearm wpf and i use pike, rack up a good amount of kills but actually suck duelling with it!
I dont think you need to be a dedicated pikeman to use a pike...
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Magikarp on May 05, 2011, 08:36:53 pm
fix'd
How are they good anti cav weapons? They are way too slow to hit us from afar. Plus they won't stop me hitting your head.

News flash: we can't switch to sidearms either without dropping our most important weapon: the lance. Pikes can be used by anyone atm, even without wpf. Only change is that they drop it, just like us, when switching to a sidearm.

Long pike isn't numerous because people don't like the speed, yet I've seen players use it well enough.

Archers are one of the worst things I can encounter on my horse, as well as crossbowmen. They can kill my horse in a matter of seconds.

I still don't see why people use cav counter as an argument. Who says the devs intended throwing as a counter to us? It's clear that throwing is to be used as an infantry sidearm to counter other ranged classes.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Seawied on May 06, 2011, 06:07:00 am
Couple of issues here.

Throwing lances (henceforth listed as TL) were the perfect ranged horse counter. Hitting infantry with them is a dice-roll, but a horse coming at you easily fits inside your crosshairs.  I seriously think you have some sort of God-complex when you use statements like "Plus they won't stop me from hitting your head." I can't speak for EU throwers, but NA throwers were great counters for cavalry.

Secondly, if you are on a horse, you don't need a side-arm. Side-arms are used in a situation that you are trapped or stuck in beyond your control, and your primary weapon is not effective. Because horses have insanely high speed, they can pick the cream of the crop of situations. Once you are dehorsed, well you probably won't need your lance anyway at that point. Having a lance drop when you switch weapons isn't much of a drawback.

Pikes and throwing lances, however, suffer from this greatly. Pikes cannot pull out a shield to cover themselves from archer fire, and throwing lances are pretty weak choices for melee. Granted, they did get a melee damage improvement, they still wouldn't be my first pick as a weapon. Because you are so slow on foot, you're going to be put in a situation where you have to fight your way out when you would like to run away.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Taggerung on May 06, 2011, 08:12:37 am
Throwing is useless even as a dedicated build now, not just because of these but because EVERY throwing weapon got nerfed, and nerfed hard.

Thanks chadz for being an idiot and giving into the massive amount of Tin can two hand spammers!




Jackass.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Seawied on May 06, 2011, 08:14:00 am
its far from useless tagg.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Native_ATS on May 06, 2011, 08:21:52 am
its far from useless tagg.
its not uesless, but its pretty bad.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: kinngrimm on May 06, 2011, 02:28:56 pm
Am I the only person that uses a throwing lance for a hoplite character? Use the lance as a spear till the end game, then start looking for a dangerous tincan to throw at?
i tried it for a short time. But the throwing lances are to short agaisnt cav in secondary mode and i was more succesful just standing there letting them come and throwing in last second and perhaps even getting out of way of their lance.

And yes throwing was a anti cav weapon, perhaps not the axes or others but defintly the jarrids and the throwing lances.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Taggerung on May 07, 2011, 09:16:48 am
Throwing is unplayable now. Accuracy is worse, and damage got hit, and then for Jarids and what not you get less per stack...and I didn't even use these weapons, I used war darts. The ONLY weapon that didn't get nerfed was rocks.


There is NO reason to keep playing my thrower now, which is sad because it was the only class I had fun playing in the land of tin can spammers. The devs are still idiots, or they are all two hand spammers who got one hit by a str 33 thrower with a 2 stack weapon that had the cross hair the size of a horse (which is the damn near the only way to one hit them)...oh yea, so over powered.  :rolleyes:
 

Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Seawied on May 07, 2011, 09:44:09 am
The ONLY weapon that didn't get nerfed was rocks.

Not the case.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Magikarp on May 07, 2011, 10:46:06 am
Throwing is unplayable now. Accuracy is worse, and damage got hit, and then for Jarids and what not you get less per stack...and I didn't even use these weapons, I used war darts. The ONLY weapon that didn't get nerfed was rocks.


There is NO reason to keep playing my thrower now, which is sad because it was the only class I had fun playing in the land of tin can spammers. The devs are still idiots, or they are all two hand spammers who got one hit by a str 33 thrower with a 2 stack weapon that had the cross hair the size of a horse (which is the damn near the only way to one hit them)...oh yea, so over powered.  :rolleyes:
Boo hoo, mr Overpowered skillless lolthrower got nerfed!
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Shpongled on May 09, 2011, 07:15:20 pm
Might as well take them out of the game. Their effectiveness got reduced by around 90%, if not more.

After 6 gens as a thrower pre-patch, I can confirm that throwing is now pointless. You can try it as a gimmick, but if you want to actually contribute meaningfully to an encounter then you should roll another class.


Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Magikarp on May 09, 2011, 07:29:59 pm
Might as well take them out of the game. Their effectiveness got reduced by around 90%, if not more.

After 6 gens as a thrower pre-patch, I can confirm that throwing is now pointless. You can try it as a gimmick, but if you want to actually contribute meaningfully to an encounter then you should roll another class.
I saw Pebble do admirably well without much wpf, the class finally takes more skill to use.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Seawied on May 09, 2011, 09:45:13 pm
Might as well take them out of the game. Their effectiveness got reduced by around 90%, if not more.

After 6 gens as a thrower pre-patch, I can confirm that throwing is now pointless. You can try it as a gimmick, but if you want to actually contribute meaningfully to an encounter then you should roll another class.

pretty much my thoughts. Having them take up 2 slots for 1 throw isn't justifiable... especially not when you add the wpf-throwing calculation pinned onto it them as well now.

Its pretty sad when the lowest tier throwing weapons are better choices than the top tier ones. Atrocious balancing decisions were made this last patch regarding throwing.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: zagibu on May 09, 2011, 10:12:21 pm
Maybe drop their damage to 50 and give them 2 ammo again?
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Inkompetent on May 09, 2011, 10:47:40 pm
Either give them 2 ammo or 1 slot each imho, maybe with a slight nerf in damage.

And heck, for throwing damage... With 5 Power Throw I can't 1-shot people even when hitting them in the face with heavy throwing axes if they wear as much as a leather hat. Throwing weapons are handy, but I don't ever see anyone kick royal butt with throwing weapons.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Magikarp on May 09, 2011, 11:48:25 pm
The devs clearly want you to only carry 1.

I'd say remove this weapon from the game entirely.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Seawied on May 10, 2011, 01:01:31 am
The devs clearly want you to only carry 1.

I'd say remove this weapon from the game entirely.

The devs are human and make some pretty awful decisions regarding balance and patches frequently. These guys aren't professionals; they're hobbyists. What they want isn't always going to be a good decision.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: YetiFiasco on May 10, 2011, 02:07:18 am
Never liked being 1 shot by throwing lances whilst wearing full plate

OH NO! The one thing that you have to worry about in full plate! I feel so sorry for you!

I'm very very sorry that you weren't completely invincible in your tin can, the nerf was definitely necessary otherwise you wouldn't be able to decapitate 20 people per game swinging your longsword around like a helicopter.

Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: hellowrold on May 10, 2011, 02:25:54 am
OH NO! The one thing that you have to worry about in full plate! I feel so sorry for you!

I'm very very sorry that you weren't completely invincible in your tin can, the nerf was definitely necessary otherwise you wouldn't be able to decapitate 20 people per game swinging your longsword around like a helicopter.

A++ would read again.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: San on May 10, 2011, 03:35:52 am
I can't 1shot people with heavy throwing axe to the face with 10 power throw. I just accept that it'll take 5-6 wardarts to get someone's hp to half. It is pretty cool to pester people with them. I never expect throwing weapons to kill ever.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: Native_ATS on May 10, 2011, 08:42:39 am
I can't 1shot people with heavy throwing axe to the face with 10 power throw. I just accept that it'll take 5-6 wardarts to get someone's hp to half. It is pretty cool to pester people with them. I never expect throwing weapons to kill ever.
took me 2 master work throwing lances to kill a bow men in leather.... i reloomed as a bow men because throwing is 100% crap, they where over nerffed and who every did the nerff should not be allowed to do anything in this game anymore, they dont know what they are doing at all. I hear it is a group that says what needs to be fixed
but any group that buffs xbow damg and super nerff throwing is soo dumb that i lost fath in the dev's that where in charge of throwing...

but to be fair let me give a little cred where it is do, the dev did hear my thoughts and try to fix it, but they did it in the wrong way or just not enough.
Lances where even worse befor the hot fix and they got buffed but the buff wasnt enough... there little buff was even a bigger nerff after i tested it more...
Lance take 2 slots and the ammo went form 12 to 2, and you cant sheath it.... so that means you can only bring 1 into battle... you need around 100wpf to even throw it in 12lb of gear.... other wise you can pick up your 1 lance....
I was all str and had like 10pt and i was like WOW i cant pick up my only lance.... the aim on the lance is soooo bad and i get it even worse since i can only have 1 and i cant throw more then once....

so i told them in the forms and i was happy when they saw my post and they buffed them...
the buff was you can sheath it but u only get 1 per stack.... each stack takes 2 slots....and they were nerffed in damg by alot. a master work lance was the same as a nomal lance befor patch -.-
AND you cant pick it up if you wear more then 12lb worth of gear.... the aim is still just as bad and you are forced to wear light to no gear.... you have to have high pt to even do damg and at 10pt it takes 2 lances to kill a bowmen or pony... then your left with nothing.... Ya you can throw jarids but at 9pt it takes 3 jarids to kill 1 man..... ya am not joking it takes the whole stake to kill a man...so good luck and dont miss
Throwing is crap in every way.... i was once voted best thrower in this game and even i cant stand what they did to it, i re-gened and did throwing again, i still toped the score bord but it wasnt fun at all, to do well i had to NOT THROW... i had to just relay on my 9ps and not my 9pt..... soon i was thinking why i even had pt....
alot of the time i would throw both lances into a pony and cry as it ran away with my 26,000$ worth of lances with him -.-

ups about throwing in new patch
war darts! 3xloomed wardart own at 9pt, they do like 30p damg and are so easy to throw, if you bring nothing but war darts you end up with 28 darts and you only need 3-4 to kill most people, they have a high rate of fire as well
can pwn 2 handers all day every day... just dont miss or your toast
.....that is it, there is nothing ells that is ok or good about throwing

bad side to throwing
cant wear gear if you want to throw lances, need high wpf yet cant get it if you still want the throwing item to hurt....
at 9pt (27str) it takes a whole stack to kill a man, so you have to be way better then me and not miss 1 shot
all mid to high throwing takes 2 slots
damg nerff on all throwing weapons! even rocks where nerffed? ROCK WHERE NERFFED!
Sheilds will reck your shit.... any sheild pwns lances,jarids,axes....
cav recks throwing hard now... damg nerff and ammo nerff make throwing at cav a hard fight...
bowmen reck throwing, good luck killing that bowmen with ur weak ass jarids, dont miss...

I think the dev where scared and gave into the crys of nubs who knew nothing about throwing and in there heart wanted to make it better.
the devs tryed to fix throwing but since none of them are throwers they didnt know  how and they just ended up over nerffing them

how i would fix throwing?
give all mid to high teir throwing 1 more to there stack... that way we can miss 1 time....
maybe up the damg on all throwing since you cant wear good gear and still throw top teir items or even because we have less throwing weapons to throw lol
maybe lift the wpf need to throw in heavy gear... i cant throw lances with 101 wpf? am forced to wear 12lb worth of gear even tho am all str?
i would still throw if i had more then 2 lances... or if they upped the damg... but even if they uped the damg back to what it was it wouldnt help... since all weapons need more str it makes them have more hp...

***To any other thrower who wants to try throwing i say dont, it isnt worth it at all... it will even be more worthless once strat is back up....
try xbow, it has all the power of throwing with no down side, heck since it has better aim then lances you dont need wpf in it lol, might want some to reload faster tho.... or just use the master work light xbow... great 68p and you can spam all wpf into a 2hander or pol-arm
 I might throw again one day but that would mean i would have to loom my lances all over again just to have a good shot at killen peps, truely not worth it
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: AlbaTiger on May 11, 2011, 01:04:10 pm
WarDarts really are the best throwing weapons now.

Javelins and axes ain't too bad cause at least they are still only 1 slot, but the number you get is so much lower than the 21 WarDarts you can take for just 3 slots which makes the darts far more flexible and you can risk taking more of those "1 in 100" shots.

Jarids are worthless and Throwing Spears aren't too far off that just cause of the low count and number of slots they take up.

Throwing Lances may as well just be removed I agree, I would have been happier with a damage reduction on Lances, and indeed Jarids and Spears...and maybe even Javelins too, if you could just take a useful number of the bloody things without crippling yourself.
Title: Re: throwing lances nerffed to much
Post by: John on May 11, 2011, 01:56:08 pm
I don't think there's any reason to use throwing lances now.  With 6 skill points you could either have one chance to almost kill someone per round, or get enough strength for another point of powerstrike.  There's really no question which option is better, but I suppose those that are just plain in love with the concept of throwing lances will still use them. 

Sigmoo would be rolling in his annoying thrower grave!