cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Ohngesicht on April 30, 2011, 08:22:35 am
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Why the xp nerfs? Because people can retire twice a day? OK, and? They don't gain anything from retiring constantly, other than marginally more variety. The people that are gen 20 already have full or mostly full triple heirloomed gear so they can't get any better in the gear department. The real benefit of retiring over and over is simply getting to reroll and experimenting with stats. And that's not an ingame advantage, that's just having fun, enjoying variety. What you DO do is kill the gen 20 and highers enjoying of their variety, thus making them more likely to quit because they're bored of the same old same old, and make it even harder for newer players to catch up, forever doomed to be outgeared basically.
Seriously, revert it. I'm Gen1, lvl 20 something and hate the xp nerfs.
Edit 1: I am aware that at Gen1, I am still making the same XP.
Edit 2: Tl;dr: IT MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE TO NERF XP.
Edit3: Also, there's a pair of really stupid fucking holes in the back of my "Black hood with mask" please get rid of them.
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Gen 4. It's very discouraging to lose the slight xp buff I had to make the grind a littttle bit easier (also to lose my MW Long Espada, but I'm hoping this is being worked on). Kesh put forward the idea that we keep the XP bonus the same per retirement, but cap the number of times we can receive this bonus (10? 20? idk in terms of what this would be).
With the system as it is now, I'd rather keep the bonus I held around, and face 20 Goretooths than lose what little bonus I had. It is my opinion that the xp bonus change really hurts new players.
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If I could add more questions, I'd make a poll about capping it.. although I don't really agree with capping it. I'd be fine with it around 15 or 20 though, so you'd make 2.5k or 3k at x1 multiplier.
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Gen 4. It's very discouraging to lose the slight xp buff I had to make the grind a littttle bit easier (also to lose my MW Long Espada, but I'm hoping this is being worked on). Kesh put forward the idea that we keep the XP bonus the same per retirement, but cap the number of times we can receive this bonus (10? 20? idk in terms of what this would be).
With the system as it is now, I'd rather keep the bonus I held around, and face 20 Goretooths than lose what little bonus I had. It is my opinion that the xp bonus change really hurts new players.
^ This x 10000000
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I'm Gen 2 (Yes, I'm a noob!) I also have ~240k gold... I've never been a big fan of heavy armor. My original build was xbow/shielder. I am now an archer/pole user.
As a precurser, I want to say, I like a lot of what this patch did. I feel that the slot system will add variety into what we see being fielded. Pretty uncaring about not being able to change gear in-game. It makes people really think about the importance of ladders and such. For the record, I plan to Heirloom my Warbow (1x) this time around. Warbow/1quiver/1hsword sounds fun. I wish a few arrows were added per stack (I think it was 20 originally before the 'hotfix'... That would be nice to see again, imho.) I would also like to take my character through multiple generations and trying various builds. I was originally drawn to doing this because in this mod, it seemed like you wouldn't -need- to make 'alts' to achieve this.
When I -finally- finished off Gen 1, I was excited to try out a new character build. I feel that the XP nerf really hampers what made cRPG shine for me at the beginning. I will say it's still much better than Native, as even miniscule RPG elements are enough to keep me entertained as opposed to an equal setting where there are zero RPG Elements. I really liked the idea of the 10% XP Bonus ... ... mostly because I hated the grind to level 31. I feel like we should see something else in line of the XP grindfest. I still adore the idea of being able to play as multiple roles using one character (via retirement and completely different builds) but with the nerfed XP, it's much less attractive. I also won't play any alts... I will, honestly, play cRPG less. I will still play, just not as often.
For ideas - 1) Reduce the XP needed to go from 30 - 31 SIGNIFICANTLY (like.. 1.5 - 2.5 million reduction or so)
2) 10% bonus per gen, but cap it (as stated above).
3) 5% Bonus per gen, cap or no cap, but still lower the XP from 30 - 31 a bit.
or 4) Raise base "tick" XP.
Options 1 and 4 would bridge the speed-leveling gap between new players and vets. Options 2 and 3 would still make mass retiring appealing (to me, at least).
tl;dr - Dislike the XP nerf. Would like to see either a revert or additional changes to be made.
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Appreciate everyone's serious and constructive posts. If someone is seriously supportive of the xp nerfs, feel free to make a constructive post! Or maybe don't :twisted:
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I'm the only one to vote no to this so far, because this isn't a game where everyone needs triple heirloomed load outs, I think chadz made this alot more fair to the new comers.
New players need to have a chance against the speed boost and damage boost + better armor of the heirlooms we hardcore guys get.
The xp reduction seems to make everyone more "even" and takes away doubt from new players that they will lose every fight against a higher gen player.
Its a game about skill, the equipment is just for show!
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The only issue I take with what Kryser said, all due respect (and have you heard any word on a rule change for C-site use now that they're destructable?), is that the higher gen players still have all (or most of, minus random disappearances) of their heirlooms they've already gained using the old XP system.
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I'm the only one to vote no to this so far, because this isn't a game where everyone needs triple heirloomed load outs, I think chadz made this alot more fair to the new comers.
My personal stance is that I would be happier with the 10% XP Bonus for variety reasons (and a bigger accomplishment factor - huge for me in RPGs. And yes, this is cRPG, not cMMO[RPG, FPS, or anything]) rather than the heirloom bonus.
It's probably a programming nightmare, but if you had the chance to EITHER get an Heirloom OR get a 10% XP bonus, I would take the XP bonus on every retire. Yes, I understand that logically thinking, it would make more sense to spam the 10% bonus until you can quickly retire to then follow-up and spam heirlooms, but even neglecting that fact, I'd still more often than not choose the XP. Many of the builds I want to try will not even benefit from the previous items I have heirloomed.
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I'm the only one to vote no to this so far, because this isn't a game where everyone needs triple heirloomed load outs, I think chadz made this alot more fair to the new comers.
New players need to have a chance against the speed boost and damage boost + better armor of the heirlooms we hardcore guys get.
The xp reduction seems to make everyone more "even" and takes away doubt from new players that they will lose every fight against a higher gen player.
Its a game about skill, the equipment is just for show!
making it take longer for new guys to get heirlooms doesn't even the gap quicker, it makes the gap much larger. You still have all your heirlooms, now it takes me longer to get mine. And the heirloom bonuses were really tiny to begin with, and they got nerfed. The heirloom bonuses are marginal, not game breaking in the slightest. A more skilled player will always win assuming he's not under leveled. Like I said, I'm new. I'm in my 20s, and half the time i place in the top four on my team, almost all the time I have a very positive k:dr. I've gone toe to toe with more experienced and geared players, I know their names... sometimes I win, sometimes I don't. I didn't even play warband MP at all, I jumped straight into C-rpg two days ago. So I have virtually zero experience. And consequently, I don't feel like the heirlooms are a huge deal. And they just got lowered even more, so now they will make much less of a difference. On a side note, I feel the heirloom nerfs should be reverted... but that's another discussion, I suppose. Point is.. you can only heirloom so many times for an 'advantage'... At some point you're already heirloomed out to max and you only get penis size and faster rerolling for trying new builds as a reward.
And they're not the only thing either.... If you read the entire post I also mention variety that comes with easily rerolling, I think that's the biggest part.
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Yeh, as somebody mentioned, you don't need triple heirloomed gear (which has been nerfed too), but it adds to the spice of the game to retire a little faster and try an entirely new character with completely different stats (in all honesty this is one of the main features that kept me interested for so many months and why I did retire so many times). I fully support an xp cap as there needs to be a limit and even keeping the current xp cap if thats what they want. But please return the 10% per gen as I know a lot of people that are new to the game or still starting out that want to try out and develop their own original and unique character after trying several builds with their own self-selected unique masterworked weapon (3 retirements), which si a very RPGish element and those are the people most hurt and affected by the reduction of gen xp bonus. You can still get the same result of capping xp without hurting new players by reducing their xp bonus. As it stands now with 1450 cap at x1 it would be roughly 50% max bonus or 5 retirements, which is fine, its a good way to help new players get a positive feeling from playing cRPG.
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The best solution imo would be reverting the system how generations and exp bonus works: gen1 gets the max possible exp (let's say 1500 per tick, as it was in the first .200 version?) and every next gen will get a negative exp modifier, like a -3% or even 10%. Also, give people the option to choose if they want to keep their actual generation or start back to 1 and raise the exp requirement for levels above 31.
That way you will help a lot the new players and at the same time you still let people to try out new builds, since it would be easier to grind up a gen 1 character. It makes grinding to a full and complete heirloom set harder, so hardcore grinders would still have a target without killing the game experience to all the people who don't give a fuck about heirlooms and just want to play the mod at the same level of almost everyone else without having to put terribly efforts in it.
An heirloom reset could fit well with this system
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The best solution imo would be reverting the system how generations and exp bonus works: gen1 gets the max possible exp (let's say 1500 per tick, as it was in the first .200 version?) and every next gen will get a negative exp modifier, like a -3% or even 10%. Also, give people the option to choose if they want to keep their actual generation or start back to 1 and raise the exp requirement for levels above 31.
That way you will help a lot the new players and at the same time you still let people to try out new builds, since it would be easier to grind up a gen 1 character. It makes grinding to a full and complete heirloom set harder, so hardcore grinders would still have a target without killing the game experience to all the people who don't give a fuck about heirlooms and just want to play the mod at the same level of almost everyone else without having to put terribly efforts in it.
An heirloom reset could fit well with this system
You know reading this and some of Tydeus posts, I've rethought the idea of going abck to old system but with an xp cap. Instead I propose:
"Based on what others have written, there does seem a very desirable solution of just making base xp 2000 and removing all the generation xp bonuses. Most desirable because no one is really nerfed (even gen 12+ are better off then the current patch) and the feeling of grind is significantly curtailed for new players and getting to level 31 is still enough of a grind comapred to 30 that heirlooms are not going to proliferate, especially since retiring has far fewer advantages (heirloom buffs all nerfed and no xp gain)."
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I'd do like this:
base exp 1500:
gen 1 gives 15% bonus
2: 14%
3: 13%
4: 12%
5: 11%
6: 10%
7: 9%
8: 8%
9: 7%
10: 6%
11: 5%
12: 4%
13+: 3%
that will make it easier for low gens and prevent high-gens from hgetting 4k at x1...
ps. dont whine about the numbers, it's more about the idea
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ps. dont whine about the numbers, it's more about the idea
Seems like a good one, a scaling system of some sort.
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As stated, cap the number of times retiring increases your xp bonus. Five or ten times strike me as a quick and easy numbers.
Same could go for heirlooming to be honest; six, nine or twelve times per character as a maximum?
Perhaps even lower the amount of xp needed to retire after you hit the highest "bonus generation", making it even easier to test other builds? Just a random thought.
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You know reading this and some of Tydeus posts, I've rethought the idea of going abck to old system but with an xp cap. Instead I propose:
"Based on what others have written, there does seem a very desirable solution of just making base xp 2000 and removing all the generation xp bonuses. Most desirable because no one is really nerfed (even gen 12+ are better off then the current patch) and the feeling of grind is significantly curtailed for new players and getting to level 31 is still enough of a grind comapred to 30 that heirlooms are not going to proliferate, especially since retiring has far fewer advantages (heirloom buffs all nerfed and no xp gain)."
Talked further with some of the guys I play with that are still gen one, as well as brought Aldryk into vent and talking with him about it a bit. We all pretty much agreed on this idea.
One observation that is worth noting, for better or worse, balance seems to be working better than it was post patch. I've seen a hell of a lot more back and forth wins than ever before, sadly though, this takes a toll on one's average multiplier. With everyone's average multi going down, essentially you're getting less xp per minute at gen 1 than you were with the previous system, even though the xp is still 1000 a tic and just as often.
At gen 1, with an average of a 1.5 multiplier for the gen and 2K base, it would still take you 74 hours to go from level 1 to 31. I'd project the average multi now is slightly higher than that, 1.7-1.8 maybe, but that's still a significant amount of time for a gen 1.
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exp bonus?? yes. 400% increase?? no.
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I prefer the ancient system for the reasons stated above. I do prefer a 10% bonus than a heirloom item because I am never satisfied and I change of equipments all the time.
On the other hand, I must admit that people with a high %bonus would still have to fight for the multiplier if they want a XP boost.
No more: "I don't care losing, in any case, I make more XP at x1 than a newbie at x5"
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10% was too much; I've always thought so. The reduction stands in the way of people who had exploited the retirement system pre-patch getting back to where they were after a few months of grind.
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Masterworking everything really gives a clear edge.
If I had the same set but masterworked, I would have +6h +12b and +12l
I would easily add me 20k of equipment value to have similar stats with normal equipment. Furthermore, heirlooming doesn't increase the weight.
If there's no wipe, people that allready are gen 30 and have all the heirloomed items they need will have life much easier than others, without really being threatened of seeing anyone reach the same gen level as them anytime soon.
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I would leave the bonus right how they are now, but increase base exp to 1500. Better for new players and veterans alike!
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mw my ass
when i started playing last August i sucked bigtime. After 1 week nativ i started crpg and i sucked even more. With dedication and frustration i got better over time. I just brought it to a test i ruled full server battle map in nativ with crap gear over 3 maps i was in top 5-10 with 140 players. I got better because i played a lot not because i use mw items. And what i mostly enjoyed the last months was testing different kind of builds.
So please loose your fantasy that a mw which gives you 1-3 points more damage or speed or whatever makes you the imba player.
i now have played M&B 1569hours, 99% in crpg. And i am still not one of the best players, there are many more who are better in feinting and other neat stuff. I get my kills by tactics and unaware players.
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i am generation SHITLOAD and tbh, i have loomed all my items so only things that remained for me as AIM, is to reach level 35-36, now with 7k+ exp instead 19500, is IMPOSSIBLE.
there is no strategus
there is no point to retire for me
and i cant level up , give back the xp, or give us something to do
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actually it makes sense to nerf xp bonus.
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i am generation SHITLOAD and tbh, i have loomed all my items so only things that remained for me as AIM, is to reach level 35-36, now with 7k+ exp instead 19500, is IMPOSSIBLE.
there is no strategus
there is no point to retire for me
and i cant level up , give back the xp, or give us something to do
This post made me smile. All worth the less xp I gain nowadays.
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Masterworking everything really gives a clear edge.
If I had the same set but masterworked, I would have +6h +12b and +12l
I would easily add me 20k of equipment value to have similar stats with normal equipment. Furthermore, heirlooming doesn't increase the weight.
If there's no wipe, people that allready are gen 30 and have all the heirloomed items they need will have life much easier than others, without really being threatened of seeing anyone reach the same gen level as them anytime soon.
QFT
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actually it makes sense to nerf xp bonus.
Removing all items from crpg makes sense.
See how retarded that sounds? You have to give a reason in these types of threads otherwise your post is completely meaningless and you end up losing credibility for any further posts.
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what about giving 1600 base experience + 6.25% for each gen.
It will as planned lower the gap between high gen and low gen , but still give the symbolic 100 exp