cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Rumblood on February 16, 2013, 05:48:28 pm
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Okay, changes get made to better the game. It takes time to assess the effect of those changes. I think we have had enough time to assess and refute that certain changes have been a boon. It is time to revert them.
First up is strafing. Left/right movement speed. With greater agility, you should have greater ability to dodge left/right. This allows players with enough agility and awareness to sidestep charging cavalry. It also allows aware players with enough agility and awareness to sidestep incoming missiles much easier. Unaware players will still get hoof stomped or an arrow in the back.
These next two suggestions are to compensate for the increased ability to strafe.
#1 - Increase lance angle again. Not 360 degrees, but it should be a pretty good range.
#2 - Increase the turn rate a bit for overheads. Not too much. But if someone doing an overhead notices that a player is strafing to the right, they should be able to adjust their overhead to the right a bit to compensate and get a hit.
All of these items allow aware players to adjust to changing game status and provides greater potential for skill to affect the outcome, while unaware players are targets.
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Increasing strafe speed would have a more severe impact on melee combat than I think you might expect.
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Agility and low weight already increases strafing speed (and acceleration) a lot.
Strafing abuse (usually just to get a faster s key) is already a problem in melee combat. About dodging projectiles I'd rather see projectile speed decreased (same effect without breaking melee) and about dodging cavalry it seems to me cav should be able to hit something. Horses already have the maniability of trucks, and have to go extremely slow to bump anything moving. Increasing human agility should go with a global horse maneuver buff.
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Not fan of this idea.
Strafe speed is already high enough, and speeding it up would be have huge impact (i can imagine only negative) on melee.
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You think those people who just run circles, and I mean this literally, around you, spamming left attack, are bad now? wait till they move faster
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Agility and low weight already increases strafing speed (and acceleration) a lot.
Strafing abuse (usually just to get a faster s key) is already a problem in melee combat. About dodging projectiles I'd rather see projectile speed decreased (same effect without breaking melee) and about dodging cavalry it seems to me cav should be able to hit something. Horses already have the maniability of trucks, and have to go extremely slow to bump anything moving. Increasing human agility should go with a global horse maneuver buff.
#1 - Strafing would be increased across the board, resulting in a net null in regards to melee. Foot work is an important part of combat, just like real life combat. A boxer without footwork, no matter how powerful, will never be a world champion. Using the term "abuse" for a mechanic that everyone has may be a poor choice of words for you as it hints at a bias.
#2 - Decreasing missile speed is a terrible idea. There are already multiple issues associated with slow missile speed. I'm not going to list all of them.
#3 - Increased lance angle will allow skilled cavalry to still hit their targets while removing the "free hit" from a horse bump from those who are unskilled and miss most of their weapon strikes. Unaware opponents will still be free kills.
#4 - Increase to turn rate will allow those with concrete boots to adjust to the dancing melee circling them.
#5 - to Kato and LordRich - Yes, it may have a huge impact on melee. It will allow an aware melee to avoid ranged missiles easier. It may add another dimension to melee vs melee, yes. I'm no melee myself, but as an objective outsider, you two sound like a couple strength lobbyists who are concerned that you won't be able to stand in place trading blows. You know how to break the attack/block/attack cycle? Make footwork important.
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#1 - Increase lance angle again. Not 360 degrees, but it should be a pretty good range.
yes
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#5 - to Kato and LordRich - Yes, it may have a huge impact on melee. It will allow an aware melee to avoid ranged missiles easier. It may add another dimension to melee vs melee, yes. I'm no melee myself, but as an objective outsider, you two sound like a couple strength lobbyists who are concerned that you won't be able to stand in place trading blows. You know how to break the attack/block/attack cycle? Make footwork important.
lawl
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#1 - Strafing would be increased across the board, resulting in a net null in regards to melee. Foot work is an important part of combat, just like real life combat. A boxer without footwork, no matter how powerful, will never be a world champion. Using the term "abuse" for a mechanic that everyone has may be a poor choice of words for you as it hints at a bias.
#5 - to Kato and LordRich - Yes, it may have a huge impact on melee. It will allow an aware melee to avoid ranged missiles easier. It may add another dimension to melee vs melee, yes. I'm no melee myself, but as an objective outsider, you two sound like a couple strength lobbyists who are concerned that you won't be able to stand in place trading blows. You know how to break the attack/block/attack cycle? Make footwork important.
Footwork is already the most important part of melee combat, and strafing speed is already unrealistically high. Coupled with fail player collisions, it allows for hiltslashing/phasing through other people which are bugs, plain and simple. Also, weapon length is already the most important stat for most people, and strafing has a huge impact in range games.
#2 - Decreasing missile speed is a terrible idea. There are already multiple issues associated with slow missile speed. I'm not going to list all of them.
I'm sorry, I can't think of any. If the goal is to improve the skill element of tracking targets and dodging, decreased missile speed has the same effect as increased movement speed.
#3 - Increased lance angle will allow skilled cavalry to still hit their targets while removing the "free hit" from a horse bump from those who are unskilled and miss most of their weapon strikes. Unaware opponents will still be free kills.
That I agree. Although a rollback of the lance angle would probably impact 1h/2h cav very negatively (just like it did positively when the reduced angle was introduced).
#4 - Increase to turn rate will allow those with concrete boots to adjust to the dancing melee circling them.
Not really. It will just make high damage weapons faster, via turning into swings magic.
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It might be fun, who knows. It would still require quite a bit of testing, since sidestepping to dodge is already very good in melee. I can't sidestep cav that easily with 5ath and a shield, but that makes sense.
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didnt read all of this, but as much as i want a greater lancing angle, 1h/2h cav would have a dear problem with that imo. dont have a solution to this, just pointing it out...
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didnt read all of this, but as much as i want a greater lancing angle, 1h/2h cav would have a dear problem with that imo. dont have a solution to this, just pointing it out...
fuck em, problem solved.
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#5 - to Kato and LordRich - Yes, it may have a huge impact on melee. It will allow an aware melee to avoid ranged missiles easier. It may add another dimension to melee vs melee, yes. I'm no melee myself, but as an objective outsider, you two sound like a couple strength lobbyists who are concerned that you won't be able to stand in place trading blows. You know how to break the attack/block/attack cycle? Make footwork important.
Gotta love assumptions right. People really need to stop assuming shit, it would have been better if you'd ask my builds then form a hypothesis off that.
I do have a full str 2h, but footwork is still easy on him. My other chars are (at current) 15/15 and 15/18. Hardly STR builds, especially seeing as I rarely use anything higher than DRZ mail.
Also, increasing strafe speed would make it even easier for hoplites and such to point blank stab. Which is such a huge amount of bullshit already, I don't even think I need to go into why it'd be absurd to make it easier. For refernce, I do play a hoplite very often and use this tactic myself.
Also, your point about calling something abuse of game mechanics when everyone can do it, everyone can point blank 2h stab, or spin stab or jump stab with long spear, but it's still abuse
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Gotta love assumptions right. People really need to stop assuming shit, it would have been better if you'd ask my builds then form a hypothesis off that.
I do have a full str 2h, but footwork is still easy on him. My other chars are (at current) 15/15 and 15/18. Hardly STR builds, especially seeing as I rarely use anything higher than DRZ mail.
Also, increasing strafe speed would make it even easier for hoplites and such to point blank stab. Which is such a huge amount of bullshit already, I don't even think I need to go into why it'd be absurd to make it easier. For refernce, I do play a hoplite very often and use this tactic myself.
Also, your point about calling something abuse of game mechanics when everyone can do it, everyone can point blank 2h stab, or spin stab or jump stab with long spear, but it's still abuse
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I think it is not a good idea. There's enough ridiculous running around already. Also keep in mind that it would be a big nerf to ranged classes.
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