(It's ok for throwing tho, i understand it hurt to take a 2 Kg lance in the chest).
EDIT: Hell, even the hobbits watching him got stunned.
Please remove polestagger from arrows and bolts, this is a lame mechanism which make melee rage their guts out.Mind blown...
- Polestun wasn't removed entirely, polearms still stop people (people hit by polearms can block, but lose all momentum, which usually fucks them up), while other melee weapons don't.
- The projectile stun is ridiculously overpowered right now. As well as slightly unrealistic, shouldn't the attacker be stunned with the same force when shooting ? That's a bit like movies in which people shot by handguns jump through windows and so on.
Everything kafein says is biased against archers, he's just never satisfied and always wants more nerfs. Glad he's not a dev.
Idlewild
I remember when I got shot by crossbowman (and stunned) so an archer shot me (because I couldn't avoid when stunned) and another archer shot me (cuz of focken stun) and I died... It was when arbalest wasn't taking 90% hp with 1 bolt.
I was simply standing in one place doing nothing but taking projectiles for 2 seconds.
To be honest I don't see why ranged should stun other players (maybe except throwers cuz they are cute).
Also stun removal from ranged has been suggested many times already and I dunno if starting another topic about it is going to change something.(click to show/hide)
Grumpy_Nic if you suggest a change like this you completely destroy the meaning of armour. There will be no need for it. The tactic will be "not to get hit" instead of "survive a hit". Enjoy no-armour-agi-bananas-with-katanas. Also you will destroy the rest of the "hero" part of the game that was already minimalised. Influence of the unit on field of battle is much lower than it was like year ago and earlier, not to mention that everybody would go ranged or quit.
It's just a game after all.
Glancing would mean a lot more and also chambering. And the "hero" part of the game...? You mean 2h right?No I mean unit that is better in melee than most of the enemies. Can be 1h/pole/2h.
No I mean unit that is better in melee than most of the enemies. Can be 1h/pole/2h.
(click to show/hide)
We are talking here about stun from ranged not ranged in general.
You said that you like to help and stun enemies that are fighting your teammate. Similar was the role of the long spear and pike. They were stunners in the crowd fights and allowed polearmers to play main role in such a fight. When they lost stun they were still used and still are and are great battle weapons because (like with ranged) longspearmen attack from distance. They are standing next to the fight but don't have to block that much. I know that the conditions of battle often make them fight alone or at leats block for some time trying to defend themselves until their teammates can help them but it's not the point of the discussion. Longspearmen co-exist with their teammates. There aren't any lone longspearmen around because their job is to support. Interrupting and dealing damage of the earlier mentioned unit is kind of support that still plays huge role on the field of battle.
What I wanted to say is that like with longspearmen, ranged don't have to stun to help. They can simply interrupt actions of enemies and keep dealing damage. I don't mind getting shot by good ranged, it's his role lol. I mind getting killed due to being frozen for some reason.
Crossbowmen still have better battle possibilities than archers. They require only 15 str for the most damaging crossbow and don't have to invest any skillpoints in it which leaves them with 24 agi at 30 lvl. This makes them have 8 ath and 8 wm and 8 wm allows them to hybridise and invest some WPF in melee weapon. They also have 5 ps which is way better than archer's 3 ps.
Reloading speed of arbalest which is the most often used crossbow, doesn't make you run out of bolts often (you have to admit). Therefore you have 1 slot empty for melee weapon which is still better than archer's (ofc until archer goes 5pd but then he doesn't even hurt anybody with his horn bow).
What I wanted to say is that I don't think removal of the stun from the crossbows will nerf their supporting role but for sure will decrease the ammount of average rage evoked when being shot in game. Also remove that thing from archers and remake the amount of arrows in 1 quiver to "basic+7" so they can take just 1 bag and some melee weapon. I guess I'm naive if I think my archer-solution would work because some would just take 2 bags of arrows and never run out of them :shock: but whateva.
I get your point. I wouldnt mind to change the staggering to a normal "stun" or whatever it is called which is created by a sword or something similar. But in total, where is it going to end? Horses cannot bump anymore? Kicks removed from play? Knockdown removed from all hammers and maces? Crushtrhough removed?These bad changes made us play a lot better to be honest. If you heard about future crpg 1 year ago you would say "what!?". Can't stab through the ground? turnrate da fuq? no kiting? slower arrows? nerfed armours? stun removed?. Those were the things that allowed us to kill and now we keep doing that pretty well even without them.
Changes in crpg are generally nerfs and less diversity, which is bad in my opinion. Changes should also include things that are improved.
Where's good old "get a shield" argument? :D
For your information, EU my old friendchers, people who used to carry a shield alongside their "big" melee weapon can't be seen on EU1 anymore. Why, have they stopped playing? On the contrary, those players are still there but on ranged/cav alts such as: Nord_Nori (Nord_Tor), Friedbolt (Friedturtle), LeLouche_the_Douche (Rufio) and the rest of melee with shield gang. If shield is so effective against ranged (and we know it's not, just ask Jackie), why are those people mainly playing their ranged/cav alts?
Even Grumbs is playing less and less which is a rare thing, I think I saw him with a shield but he probably realised it's useless so he just decided to battle omnipotent ranged threat by playing less cRPG (at least on EU1).
Many think I'm most prominent ranged hater in here, maybe I am but you should also know that I'm one of the few players using regular light armor and no shield. Only other somewhat active player I know who's capable of maintaining decent kdr is Nord_Logen. Everybody else either are ranged, hybrid ranged or have shitload of loomed armor and HP and move in pack so archers can't kill them all at the same time (Warpigs).
One bolt from someone like Veselov/Panzerstyle takes away 85% of my HP from a long distance. At short distance it is lethal in most cases. Tenne's arrows take 55% of my HP from a long distance. At short range it's somewhere between 60-80%. Throwing axes take between 40-80% of my HP etc.
On top of it all there's that pesky stun which can be so severe sometimes that my whole body shakes and stun last for 2 or more seconds. There are ways to prevent such a stun but even the lightest stun is enough for an archer to seriously fuck me up. But my favorite thing about ranged is when I'm the last one and a horde of enemy player is after me, catch me and create a circle around me (10 players or more). Second later I die, just to realise that I died to a bloody archer standing behind that huge crowd, few meters away. WTF!
Archers QQ how melee kill them when they catch them. Well bros, at least you have a chance in that duel. Against you I don't have a chance, it's not up to me. Only if you fuck up I get to kill you.
Let me ask you one thing Grumpy.
Do u think that EU 1 atm is a ranged fest and that there are more and more ranged and less infantry every day?
So my answer to your question would be "no". I would like you to answer this question: Do you think that EU1 is sometimes dominated byranged, sometimes by melee and sometimes by cav?
Now it depends very much on which people are online I think. But no, I dont think so. There are, and this is clear, times when many ranged are online and many projectiles are flying around. But there are times when the server is clearly melee dominated. I dont see many dedicated xbowers and in the last 3-4 days I've actively been looking for xbow sidearms at the beginning of each round (you know when the whole team starts together). I have seen almost none. Feel free to post screenshots to prove me wrong, I'm willing to listen to everything.
I think there are more archers than xbowers, but for you this will probably be not much of a difference as it does damage to you either way. I try to keep track of enemy archers because after cav and melee guys coming directly to me, they are my main target group. So I see it in a different way than you.
So my answer to your question would be "no". I would like you to answer this question: Do you think that EU1 is sometimes dominated by ranged, sometimes by melee and sometimes by cav?
For your information, EU my old friendchers, people who used to carry a shield alongside their "big" melee weapon can't be seen on EU1 anymore. Why, have they stopped playing? On the contrary, those players are still there but on ranged/cav alts such as: Nord_Nori (Nord_Tor), Friedbolt (Friedturtle), LeLouche_the_Douche (Rufio) and the rest of melee with shield gang. If shield is so effective against ranged (and we know it's not, just ask Jackie), why are those people mainly playing their ranged/cav alts?Shield is effective, even if you use 2h or polearm. It makes you able to chase any archer 1 vs 1 (if he's not trying to just run away in which case he's harmless anyway). And shield is not the only option. Infantry has throwing and xbows (hell, even 7-8 athletics character can cut these archers to pieces) as well to counter archers.
On top of it all there's that pesky stun which can be so severe sometimes that my whole body shakes and stun last for 2 or more seconds.This is simply not true.
I didn't ask you about a spacific class i only said ranged that means archer/xbow/thrower.
I agree that sometimes all 3 classes dominate but it depends allot on the maps. ofc cav will rape plains etc...
What i wanted to establish is can you notice the slow but steady trend of people giving up on melee (shieldless) classes. It wont happen onernight but you must notice allot of people rage respec or play ther ranged alts witch is never a good thing to be happening imo, something ust be wrong for people to start doing that in numbers.
Let's get on thing clear, I think melee only server is boring after a half an hour and all classes should be represented equally but current state is no fun for melee guys, honest truth.
Ath works a lot better than carrying a shield. As it was mentioned many times before, ranged are supposed to do a lot. Stun after taking arrow could be a bit reduced, but not completly removed. Archers are also pissed off when guy in heavy armor can chase them and at the end jump and with 2h/some long spear or 1h's right attack hitthem right in the heead.You forgot to call them cheaters.
Or, I should say, the ranged stagger should go or poles stagger should be reinstated in non-knockdown polearms.No more polearm stun! Nevah! Also I don't understand why ranged stun being in game is a reason to bring back stun to polearms.... No logic.
No more polearm stun! Nevah! Also I don't understand why ranged stun being in game is a reason to bring back stun to polearms.... No logic.
The logic is that if ranged stun is deemed as acceptable- the ability to stagger an opponent from a massive distance- then why shouldn't polearms (and other melee, even) be able to do it as well at their extremely limited distance. Since ranged stagger exists in the game and since no other class is afforded that ability, that would be the basis for either removing it or adding it to other classes. Does that make more sense?
People have made the argument that an archer is a support class. Certainly with the state of archery today, they are no Hero's. The stun mechanic made supporting your team much easier and often the target I chose was due to this benefit.
"My peasant teamate is about to be lanced in his ass! Oh hell no! No unawares couching for you!"
"That xbow is punching through our tincans! Oh hell no! No reload for you!"
"Oh shit, that ninja is about to backstab our shieldwall! Oh hell no! No slicey dicey for you!"
As much as melee likes to complain about archers and their pew pew, their asses were saved far more times than they ever know.
Was getting worried as I didn't see a nerf archery thread for a day but you delivered.
Use a shield or your brain and Archery won't bother you.
First people complain about archers kiting, then doing too much damage, then being too accurate now the stun is op.
The fuck is wrong with this community?
edit: I hope for people own sake that they don't play League of legends when a new champion is out or when an update comes out. Go play that when it happens, you'll see what OP means in a game. Or aku on cod4 pam4, if people played that I'm sure a few would have killed themselves by now, with how the aku was OP to shit if it was in comparison to archers on C-rpg.
indeed, if 2 handers had brains and used cover or not chase archers, they'll 90% of the time win the round if 1v1 with an archer. Only time I see them loosing if their not good at melee. But that isn't hard when you're a 2 hander against an archer.
#TeamGrumpy
The extended stagger from ranged (all ranged) should go, just like it did from polearms. Or, I should say, the ranged stagger should go or poles stagger should be reinstated in non-knockdown polearms. Either seems acceptable. This is what the thread is about, also- not about ranged OP, ranged UP, get a shield, etc. It's about whether or not the staggering effect should stay in, that's it.
Damn straight TOD. 5 months off and this is one of the first threads I see, HA!
Damn straight TOD. 5 months off and this is one of the first threads I see, HA!FRANK IS BACK :D