cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Mallets on January 29, 2013, 05:49:27 am
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Being away for a while now (8 months), I'm looking to play with my polearm character a little more. I'm looking to purchase a 3 new weapons, but having a hard time making a decision. I'm looking to buy a poleaxe, a very long spear, and a medium-ranged piercing weapon.
Character background. I play a decent mix of Battle & Siege. My character is 21/15. But may make him my first retired character and go 18/21, and focus just on polearms... and not a mixture of throwing/shield, that my character now has.
So help me make a decision in each category.
1) Poleaxe or Elegant Poleaxe
I'm leaning towards the regular poleaxe because of the high stab damage. I suck... so I figured I could use it to sneak in stab attacks in the midst of battle. And a bit cheaper.
2) Pike or Long Spear
Tough one here. Pike has a lot more length. Long Spear has a good bit more speed and 2 more damage. I like speed, but I'm curious if it'll matter. Mind you, my character is Str build at the moment. I'm sure AGI would help.
3) Long Awpike or Corseque or Other
I've enjoyed the regular Awpike. Just figured I'd step up the length. Or is there an advantage to the shorter Awpike? Looking at two weapons mentioned above, basically the difference is in the over-head attack... which I think is valuable. Being away, I can't remember which is more useful... blunt or pierce. Long Awpike with 18 blunt versus the Corseque's 21 pierce. If blunt is better, than maybe the Septum? Also, if there's another similar weapon that you recommend, I'd love to hear about it.
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i can tell you this: i am a pure piker, i dont use any 4-directional weapon on my main. i use a 15/24 build.
i started with the long awlpike because i loved it in native, than i bought a long spear because i liked the unloomed version alot and now i also have bought the pike (because i didnt feel complete, a real piker knows how to use a pike).
i dont know what to say yet because its a though choise, ill think about how to compare the weapons and post it. I can already tell you that the pike is worth nothing without atleast one teammate and i love it on DTV for the fact that you can stab over objects like walls and shieldwalls more easily (you can stab through objects and teammates, but this is not allowed and banable).
I would say, try the unloomed versions of all weapons you want to loom, because thats what i always did. if you can compare the unloomed versions, the loomed ones will feel the same, but better.
I think blunt is a very little bit better than pierce against heavy armor, but i heard from people that the difference was removed in a certain patch.
Because of our build difference i cant really say what is the best weapon. I can tell that i tried my long awlpike on all builds within 24/15 and 15/24 and i chose the agi based build (i felt bad for being such a agiwhore :( )
if you want, you can try out my loomed weapons untill the end of this week, im inactive anyway. I think the best way to do that is to join Peasants United with an alt and ill put my stuff into the armoury.
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I've never really used the Elegant poleaxe, a bit of extra speed never seemed worth losing the damage and length to me. Poleaxe is possibly the most well rounded jack of all trades weapon for polearms. Shield breaker, rear horses (a bit too short to do it reliably but its possible), good enough speed, good damage on stab and swings. Plus in secondary mode you can knock people down. Its got a bit of everything that you want in polearm
Its expensive though, and it can be good to specialise into one thing or another. The polestabs got nerfed quite a bit, especially the shorter ones became less useful imo so you can get a worse stab in exchange for better swings and cheaper upkeep by going with one of the axes (Long Bardiche, Long War Axe/Great Long Axe). Or get better length and lose shield breaker stat (LHB or Glaive). If you do want to focus on stabs then you have Long Awlpike and similar weapons.
For me all the nerfs made it so its not really worth losing 2 swings unless you get a decent reach or high damage, and even Long Awlpike isn't particularly long with its stabs. You still want to be very close to make sure it doesn't glance off. The shorter ones just aren't worth losing extra attack directions imo but just because they aren't so good it doesn't mean you can't use them. In the right hands they will still be very usable, just maybe they could do even better with other weapons. The new similar ones to Long Awlpike are worth trying out, there isn't really much between them. I might use the longest one with 2 attack directions, although the extra damage might be better than a tiny bit of extra length that probably doesn't equate to much.
Long Spear vs Pike is hard to call really. I'd try them both and see for yourself. Pike makes you run slower due to its length and weight, which can equate to shorter reach against faster moving guys/horses, and the weapon speed might even mean you don't hit players that a long spear might reach in the same amount of time. Non-Masterwork pike damage is a bit on the low side compared to Long Spear so its going to glance more, especially at long ranges. Pike is a lot harder to 1v1 with imo, but I would take a backup weapon with either (Quarterstaff or 1 hander).
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1) Poleaxe or Elegant Poleaxe
Of those two, definitely the Poleaxe. Other good options are German Poleaxe, Long Bardiche and Glaive. Stay away from the Elegant Poleaxe, it's awful
2) Pike or Long Spear
Long Spear. I prefer the pike because of its style, but the long spear is a lot better weapon.
3) Long Awpike or Corseque or Other
Ranseur or Spetum. They're statistically better than the others. Ranseur's the best, in my opinion. Longest one and packs a punch with its overhead, while still having the same speed as the other and a good thrust.
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It all comes down to personal preference, get them all and play for a while is the only way to decide imo.
I have not used much of the others, but regarding the pike and long spear, I find that the pike is a much better support. The lower speed allows for bigger wiggles and getting around friendlies, and the extra length comes in extremely handy.
With the longspear you have to be more in the middle of the fray, which is more dangerous, but it is also more damaging, so it is more a risk vs reward choice.
If they close on you and you have no teammates, the pike is useless 99% of times, but the long spear can be used somewhat (not ideal, but at least you are not as doomed). If you prefer not to have a backup, practice your backjumping while aiming high and lowering the weapon to deal almost full damage. Annoying to fight against, gay to do, but it will save your life.
For my playstile, I prefer the pike with a backup 1her.
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Does the spetum overhead knockdown?
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Does the spetum overhead knockdown?
No, why would it?
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No, why would it?
Hmm, i thought since it does B damage it would also knock you down. :shock:
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damn long awlpike with knockdown, would be great :D
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Did anyone test it?
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yes :) and anyway, knockdown is always mentioned in the stats
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yes :) and anyway, knockdown is always mentioned in the stats
yeah you are right, i sholdve checked it out first" :lol:
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So what is this Stab nerf that you guys have mentioned? Something about glancing? How is that factored... if not enough PS, it can glance... or something like that?
And many thanks for all the detailed info guys! Yeah, ideally... trying all these weapons would be great. But I'm kind of a poor soul. Either way, at least ya'lls advice can steer me towards which weapons to try first.
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So what is this Stab nerf that you guys have mentioned? Something about glancing? How is that factored... if not enough PS, it can glance... or something like that?
And many thanks for all the detailed info guys! Yeah, ideally... trying all these weapons would be great. But I'm kind of a poor soul. Either way, at least ya'lls advice can steer me towards which weapons to try first.
There was nerf to the angle you're able to turn during your attacking animation. It's now based on length and weight of the weapon, and if it's a 1H, 2H or polearm weapon. Polearm stabs being one of the faster animations leave you with only a short window of turning, and with these weapons being long and cumbersome, it does make it even worse. Considering you have to turn your weapon a bit to not glance at short range I suggest that you learn how to stab up in the air and drag the thrust down in your enemy. Doesn't require a lot of turning to avoid glancing and you'll quite easily hit the face which increases the damage multiplier.
2D polearms are still solid, but poleaxes and greatswords are better.
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Gurnisson speaks the truth.
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I suggest that you learn how to stab up in the air and drag the thrust down in your enemy.
NEVER
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Poleaxes
Regular poleaxe seems to be fotm or was with the blunt end. I like the versatility of shield breaking AND knockdown / plate killing on the same weapon.
Long Spear vs Pike
Two entirely different play styles. At least, from what I've gained in a group setting ("Famous" ...and trolled... NH teamwork), Long spear excels at assisting a single ally in murdering everyone. A pike is more of a group support.
In detail, I used Long Spear. Relit used Pike. When we would roll together with about 4-5 other members, we would do better if I shadowed Diggles or a mauler and helped set them up for kills. While Relit abused his high agility and longer length to move quickly within our formation getting easy hits and stopping horses.
2D Polearms.
Almost all are viable, the difference is simply min-maxing. Ashwood is a great starting one, if a bit short for the role. Long Awplike is king. Of the "New" 2Ds, I think it was Spetum that came out on top? (Blunt overhead, high stab, ok length/speed) The Partisan was the worst, technically. (Cut damage stab).
Again, all are viable if you don't min max. Don't use partisan against heavy armored teams.
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i also pick the pike when i see that the other team has a extremely annoying long spearman. I just shout in the chat that he's a fucking cunt and that i will murder his ass, wich makes him focus me instead of my team. But as i pick the pike i can just poke at him from a distance :)
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There was nerf to the angle you're able to turn during your attacking animation. It's now based on length and weight of the weapon, and if it's a 1H, 2H or polearm weapon. Polearm stabs being one of the faster animations leave you with only a short window of turning, and with these weapons being long and cumbersome, it does make it even worse. Considering you have to turn your weapon a bit to not glance at short range I suggest that you learn how to stab up in the air and drag the thrust down in your enemy. Doesn't require a lot of turning to avoid glancing and you'll quite easily hit the face which increases the damage multiplier.
2D polearms are still solid, but poleaxes and greatswords are better.
Thanks for that Gurnisson! Just coming back (after 8/9 months out), I had no clue. The explanation is much appreciated!
Poleaxes
Regular poleaxe seems to be fotm or was with the blunt end. I like the versatility of shield breaking AND knockdown / plate killing on the same weapon.
Long Spear vs Pike
Two entirely different play styles. At least, from what I've gained in a group setting ("Famous" ...and trolled... NH teamwork), Long spear excels at assisting a single ally in murdering everyone. A pike is more of a group support.
In detail, I used Long Spear. Relit used Pike. When we would roll together with about 4-5 other members, we would do better if I shadowed Diggles or a mauler and helped set them up for kills. While Relit abused his high agility and longer length to move quickly within our formation getting easy hits and stopping horses.
2D Polearms.
Almost all are viable, the difference is simply min-maxing. Ashwood is a great starting one, if a bit short for the role. Long Awplike is king. Of the "New" 2Ds, I think it was Spetum that came out on top? (Blunt overhead, high stab, ok length/speed) The Partisan was the worst, technically. (Cut damage stab).
Again, all are viable if you don't min max. Don't use partisan against heavy armored teams.
Thanks Zanze, great explanation!
Think I'll probably go Long Awpike among the 2D polearms. I've used the regular on for a while. Is there any big advantage to the regular (shorter) Awpike? Cause I've enjoyed it, and it seems pretty deadly!
For poleaxe... going to go with the regular Poleaxe.
Choosing between the Pike and Long Spear... I think I'll definitely have to try both of these... in order to see which I like best. I really like that the Long Spear has a better chance in 1v1. But it's certainly not ideal, and I'd be much better the a backup weapon... so I might choose the Pike.
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Length is not always a good stat to have. Remember, the longer your weapon is, the more likely to glance at close range.
Length makes you slower.
Length usually means heavier, which makes you slower.
Length makes you glance.
However, common sense, you hit things from far.
Now, due to horses and teammates and all that nonsense, for direct battle (NA1, EU1, etc), A Long Awlpike is probably a safer choice. You can stab people before they notice you are there, and the fighting is more medium range oriented.
If you play siege, a regular awlpike is tons better then the long. You'll still glance at hug-range, but it is shorter, lighter, faster, and does more damage. (Players on siege lean toward heavy armor, high strength.) They are slower, but you don't have the mobility you get in battle due to walls. So despite them being slow as molasses, you'll still be in close range more often and you definitely want a short spear for that. Might even suggest battle fork...
In the end, you can use whatever whenever. It all works. These are just my experiences in the game and what I feel is more effective.
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Think I'll probably go Long Awpike among the 2D polearms. I've used the regular on for a while. Is there any big advantage to the regular (shorter) Awpike? Cause I've enjoyed it, and it seems pretty deadly!
the length, but damage and speed are lower. Its really something personal, i liked the long awlpike because it was so good in native, i had to adapt a but to the crpg stats, but i didnt want to let this weapon go. i had started to feel like it was MY weapon, however it wasnt as easy as it looked like in native.
People that played mount & musket most of the time choose for the normal awlpike instead of any other polearm because it almost feels the same.
There is no way to say what weapon is the best, i think in case of polearms, its your personal flavor and ofc also practice. The length, speed and damage just make such a big difference that most weapons can not be compared. However, i can tell you that as long you dont choose a underpowered pike, that you can ALWAYS get used to it. I never knew how to play the pike, after some time, you start to get the feel of the length and after even more time you
are one with your weapon.
Now, due to horses and teammates and all that nonsense, for direct battle (NA1, EU1, etc), A Long Awlpike is probably a safer choice. You can stab people before they notice you are there, and the fighting is more medium range oriented.
If you play siege, a regular awlpike is tons better then the long. You'll still glance at hug-range, but it is shorter, lighter, faster, and does more damage. (Players on siege lean toward heavy armor, high strength.) They are slower, but you don't have the mobility you get in battle due to walls. So despite them being slow as molasses, you'll still be in close range more often and you definitely want a short spear for that. Might even suggest battle fork...
again this is just a matter of preferences, i have always played siege with a long awlpike (never really tried normal one though, with that i would just stab in front of the enemy instead of hitting him, i havent done it enough to get used to it :P). You can even use a long spear VERY effective in siege as long as you dont get yourself into tight places :)
I use my long awlpike in battle depending on the situation, sometimes the team is just too stupid to stay together and runs off in every direction. in this case i take the long awlpike so i can get my skills in small scale battles. In big scale battles with a better team to support i either go pike or long spear. Sometimes you choose the wrong weapon in the first round, but you can always fix that in the second round
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Nobody mentions the Partisan. That cut-damage stab demolishes softer targets and unarmoured horses.
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I enjoy the Spetum personally. Bonsai has a +3 one that he lets me borrow. I feel empowered when I have it because of the good length, good stab damage, and great overhead blunt. The speed is nothing bad either.
I have a +3 bamboo spear though. I'll never get rid of this baby. I love 2d polearms. It's surprising to me some times how often 2d polearms outdo people on the scoreboard some times! Especially good at doing this on NA is Oohill :P Canary Aldog and Bonsai. I'm starting to get better at it as well ;)
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Length is not always a good stat to have. Remember, the longer your weapon is, the more likely to glance at close range.
Length makes you slower.
Length usually means heavier, which makes you slower.
Length makes you glance.
Length and weight are always pluses for polearms.
Length means that you are able to hit horses and backpedling people with other long range weapons.
Weight allows you to stun other weapons that weigh less than your weapon: this is very useful against onehanders as most of the swords weigh between 1 and 1.7, while a poleaxe weighs more than 3. You will be able to stun with 90% of your hold attacks.
YOU CAN EVEN STUN Greatswords WITH A HOLD ATTACKS FROM A MIGHTY POLEAXE!
Anyway according to some rumors you actually hit people fast if you are using a long weapon.
Back to OP questions: There is no reason to take elegant poleaxe. I am a dedicated poleaxe user. But I wouldn't advice someone who is new to polearms to start out with the poleaxe. As it is shorter than the Great Long Axe (note, GLA uses a different type of polearms animation so its range is actually longer despite the fact that it only has 125 range (compared to poleaxe's 141)
The good thing about the poleaxe is the stab, it is somewhat hard to make good use off, especially after the turn speed nerf.
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he was talking about a pike and indeed, if you are not used to the pike you will actually do nothing but glancing
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he was talking about a pike and indeed, if you are not used to the pike you will actually do nothing but glancing
Yeah, learned that last night! :P