cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Konrax on April 29, 2011, 05:34:40 pm
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Why?
Simple really, as a shield user I am effectively the primary counter to range weapons. (If you disagree please hit ALT + F4 now)
When I am within striking range of a thrower, the time that it takes to throw a weapon and hit my shield is faster then it takes for me to lower my shield and swing my weapon.
So in essence they can attack twice before I can attack once leaving me with my attack chambered and a lance in my face.
Thoughts?
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as a shielder and as a throwing alt, this is not the case at all. If they can "attack twice before [you] can attack once," then words cannot express how bad you fail.
Ranged weapons should be be affected by the bump animation if a person hold their shield up though. The speed is fine.
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I played M&B since before warband so STFU and as a person who ALSO played a thrower, and plays sword/shield since CRPG came out I can tell you that throwing is too damn fast.
I had this exact scenario happen to me a few times now, with 150 wpf in 1h and a 100 speed masterwork long espada I should be able to hit a thrower between throws.
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Seawied, you're wrong.
When I played thrower on my sister's character...
it was something like: run to enemy (well, actually, i moved like a turtle - full str 14 pt :D), throw at him when i was close enough (that depended on weapon i used, usually javelins without armor - only dress), then if he was still alive he tried to attack me... throw at him again, since he had to run to me first, then if he STILL was alive (i could miss or something) when he was ready to swing at me: backpedal + jump + throw in one moment. Bah, guy is dead (99% i hit him from that short distance).
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^^^^ This is exactly my point.
The time it takes for the shield hit, shield lower, and swing animation to happen the second throw is well on its way to your face.
Throwing needs to be much slower then it is.
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You should be more specific. I thought you were talking about missile speed, not delay between throws.
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If you get thrown at from point-blank range, you're doing it wrong. :)
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Gurnisson, fixed:
If you get thrown at from point-blank range, thrower is really good and jumped away during throwing animation to not get it interrupted. :)
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You lowered your shield and got hit = you failed. The thrower did a smart thing, but it doesn't remove the fact that you did something wrong as a shielder...
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It doesn't require jumping backwards or anything really to do the scenario I said.
The time it takes to throw two weapons one after another is shorter than the shield hit animation, shield lower animation, and swing time combined. 148 1h wpf, 98 speed weapon, huscarl shield with 5 shield skill.
Shield is supposed to be a range counter, but something like this unbalances it.
Anything to contribute or just L2P?
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Can I get some feedback on this?
No other range weapon fires so fast that you have to hold your shield up the whole time or your forced to bump them so you can get an attack.
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I actually haven't seen a decent thrower yet who couldn't backpedal faster than a shielder with his shield up moves forward, just enough to avoid getting bumped.
Of course there's some shitty thrower builds out there with no athletics too so I suppose those guys might get bumped.
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I played M&B since before warband so STFU and as a person who ALSO played a thrower, and plays sword/shield since CRPG came out I can tell you that throwing is too damn fast.
I had this exact scenario happen to me a few times now, with 150 wpf in 1h and a 100 speed masterwork long espada I should be able to hit a thrower between throws.
Guess what? So did I. Pipe down skipper, you're making an ass of yourself. If you were to act as arrogant as you are right now and tell me to shut the fuck up in person, I would knock your teeth out on the spot.
Secondly, Throwers do NOT attack faster at a rate of 2:1. If a thrower can get in 2 shots before you get 1, then you have not adequately closed the gap between you and him. As a shielder, you are a thrower counter-class.
@Dravic, with 14 PT, you would have either 1 or 0 athletics depending on how high of a level the character is. You should not have been able to out back-pedal an opponent, unless that person also went 100% strength. This leads me to believe that the person probably was most likely a lowish level or did not have adequate WPF/Agility.
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Throwers already had a number of counters.
Shields, bows and crossbows were all simple counters to throwers.
Now I accept that shielded throwers had less to worry about from bows and crossbows but now things have swung more in their favour with the 2 slot throwing weapons.
Really only the 1 slot throwing weapons with good stack numbers are useable now for dedicated throwers. Throwing axes are still okay for a mixed build as a bit of anti-horse.
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Guess what? So did I. Pipe down skipper, you're making an ass of yourself. If you were to act as arrogant as you are right now and tell me to shut the fuck up in person, I would knock your teeth out on the spot.
Secondly, Throwers do NOT attack faster at a rate of 2:1. If a thrower can get in 2 shots before you get 1, then you have not adequately closed the gap between you and him. As a shielder, you are a thrower counter-class.
@Dravic, with 14 PT, you would have either 1 or 0 athletics depending on how high of a level the character is. You should not have been able to out back-pedal an opponent, unless that person also went 100% strength. This leads me to believe that the person probably was most likely a lowish level or did not have adequate WPF/Agility.
The ratio isn't 2:1, its single throw speed is faster then the stack of animations I said. (Shield hit, shield lower, weapon swing) which doesn't require any movement on the throwers part.
As for the other part, I train 3-5 times a week at least in martial arts plus additional work outs. I train with friends who are x-army also so about knocking my teeth out, I would really like to see it. Aside from that its just a game, no need for anger on that part of physical violence, but when someone just says you need to learn to play or your doing it wrong it just pisses me right off.
A number of things I pointed out as being issues with this mod have been changed to what my recommendations were, now this is another flawed game mechanic I am bringing to light.
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ITT:
If this were real life I'd beat your ass
*Yeah, well I know kung-fu
I trained with the military
*I'm a mean mofo
E-peenepeenepeen
*EEeEEEeeeEEpeeeen
.... Yeah :?
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The ratio isn't 2:1, its single throw speed is faster then the stack of animations I said. (Shield hit, shield lower, weapon swing) which doesn't require any movement on the throwers part.
again, how is this any different than effective attack speed. It is not faster than 1h animation. Throwing follows the same attack pattern as any other weapon.
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throwing is nerffed to shit, you just suck ass, just uninstall now and go ells where :|
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Really... You´re doing it wrong.
It´s quite simple really. Keep that shield raised and BUMP him. Free hit for you and if you keep pushing you´ll bump him again resulting in his death.
Even the fastest throwing weapons can´t be spammed fast enough to throw them twice in a row when someone is in your face slashing at you.
throwing is nerffed to shit, you just suck ass, just uninstall now and go ells where :|
That.
I have to retire my thrower because he´s next to useless now. I would probably have to go for an 18-18 build or something to be even remotely accurate with darts and stuff. Too bad it will take 3 or 4 hits to kill an archer.
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Really... You´re doing it wrong.
It´s quite simple really. Keep that shield raised and BUMP him. Free hit for you and if you keep pushing you´ll bump him again resulting in his death.
Even the fastest throwing weapons can´t be spammed fast enough to throw them twice in a row when someone is in your face slashing at you.
That.
I have to retire my thrower because he´s next to useless now. I would probably have to go for an 18-18 build or something to be even remotely accurate with darts and stuff. Too bad it will take 3 or 4 hits to kill an archer.
a naked low lvl one too :|
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Have any of you tried what I said?
Or you all just going to keep saying I don't know how to play?
My point still stands, which none of you really say anything about it.
Yes throwing weapons follow a similar animation to swinging weapons, however IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF the thrower hits your shield with the first projectile, the second one can be fired so fast that the shield user can't swing in time.
WORKING AS INTENDED????
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Throwing isn't totally dead.
Wardarts are still pretty brutal and dagger/shuriken ain't too bad with 6-7 PT.
All the 2 slot throwing weapons are pointless though and throwing axes are more of a support weapon for a character focused in something else.