cRPG

cRPG => Announcements => Topic started by: chadz on April 29, 2011, 03:22:12 pm

Title: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: chadz on April 29, 2011, 03:22:12 pm
I have thought a long time about what caused this amount of whine. The answer is actually quite easy:

People are not looking for balance, they are looking for advantage. If an advantage is taken from them, no matter if justified or not, they whine. Pretty understandable, actually.

So, using the principle of "don't hate the players, hate the game", it's up to me to propose a solution to this problem. The only fair way (and most efficient one, too!) is to wipe the database every time new weapon stats are released. This will ensure that no one is at a disadvantage, because everyone can find the new "OP" weapon, like everyone else.

Opinions?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: bredeus on April 29, 2011, 03:23:29 pm
love the idea :)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Astinus on April 29, 2011, 03:24:55 pm
I thought we liked the whine, surely we don't like to grind again and again without any gen multiplier
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cepeshi on April 29, 2011, 03:24:58 pm
i would not mind some peasant wars ")

even tho i would miss my 11 generations :(
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kazak on April 29, 2011, 03:25:18 pm
Take it ease chadz
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Razzen on April 29, 2011, 03:25:31 pm
sounds like a good idea
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Thovex on April 29, 2011, 03:26:41 pm
good idea, I wouldn't mind this.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Belmont on April 29, 2011, 03:27:40 pm
It is impossible to achieve "perfect" balance in a single patch, especially when the only ones testing the new values and changes are a few men. Having a "closed beta" for each balance patch would help to ensure that more items remain balanced and the amount of whine reduced.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on April 29, 2011, 03:28:04 pm
What? Its just cos people are naturally conservative and hate change. And as you say, they're looking for advantage, not balance. But the whine always goes away after a while, same with every patch.

Though a complete reset would be fun, people will just whine about that too. And then whine about scythe being OP cos it has longer range than a hatchet.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Razzen on April 29, 2011, 03:29:29 pm
Maybe just make everybody lvl 1 again, but they will keep their heirlooms and gen? If its possible ofc.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Thovex on April 29, 2011, 03:30:55 pm
Maybe just make everybody lvl 1 again, but they will keep their heirlooms and gen? If its possible ofc.

Even if this will happen at gen 4 you can masterwork your favorite weapon and gives you some time to look and new weapons, could be very interesting.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tzar on April 29, 2011, 03:31:02 pm
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Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Phyrex on April 29, 2011, 03:31:37 pm
Just remove retirement, generations and heirlooming already. It'll fix most of it.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on April 29, 2011, 03:32:46 pm
I guess with a simple heirloom-reset most people would be satisfied...

And i think contemplating the massve changes it actually is kinda justfied...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Michael on April 29, 2011, 03:33:32 pm
Most people dont "whine" because of a minor advantage they lost. They whine because all their "work" to get a masterwork something was a waste of time.

I hate patches because they always turn out as a new grind marathon getting started.

Deleting the database would mean even more grind.

Why not the other way around, no grind at all, every char starts with all the attribute and skill points a char has at level 31 and all you have to do is to spend the points the way you want?

And upgrade items not for grinders but for donators.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: HarunYahya on April 29, 2011, 03:34:49 pm
Well if you add funny animations to stab...
If you edit cav fight and only allow them to poke forward...
If you buff archery accuracy ...
If you increase all upkeeps...
If you ruin all the bonus that gen 30 had and didn't add anything to stop grindfest...
If you don't allow people to grab thrown weapons...
If you add only russian items...
If you don't even announce that items will be added with the patch...
Yes,people whine chadz...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Lefu on April 29, 2011, 03:36:23 pm
Let the peasant wars begin!  :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tydeus on April 29, 2011, 03:41:57 pm
I'm not really sure what balance or advantage has to do with wiping the database. It seems to me that nothing would ever get balanced by wiping the database. So why do it? People will lose their gen bonus and for what? It won't make people whine less, it won't make weapons any bit more balanced. It won't stop people from crying about what kills them the most. The only thing I see this doing, is pushing people away from crpg.

Honestly, it sounds like the dev team needs a better way to filter through all the nonsensical posts on these forums.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Daergar on April 29, 2011, 03:42:17 pm
I am definately not looking for any advantage aside from my own skill increasing. What I would be glad for is the option to use an item that suits my playstyle, which is offered by having so many weapon options, so; solved.

The problem is that when weapon A, which suited me and I ground my ass off to get masterworked, gets changed and weapon B becomes the logical choice for me personally. It would be nice to being able to "re-loom" an item and use those heirloom points on a new weapon. If that's what meant by a database reset, I'm all for it. If it means removing loomed items and not getting them "back", not so much.

Or, as Phyrex says, remove everything that makes crpg special and we can all play native, where at least I get more gold and better gear based on the amount of nublets I kill.  :)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: ChuckNorris on April 29, 2011, 03:43:58 pm
Complete wipe would be epic, peasant wars again :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Razzen on April 29, 2011, 03:46:03 pm
I'm not really sure what balance or advantage has to do with wiping the database. It seems to me that nothing would ever get balanced by wiping the database. So why do it? People will lose their gen bonus and for what? It won't make people whine less, it won't make weapons any bit more balanced. It won't stop people from crying about what kills them the most. The only thing I see this doing, is pushing people away from crpg.

Honestly, it sounds like the dev team needs a better way to filter through all the nonsensical posts on these forums.
Its giving everybody a fresh start to pick what they want and be what they want, if they get looms back then its even better and still keep their gen.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: cutsomecheesewithmybow on April 29, 2011, 03:46:50 pm
You can take everything away all day everyday sure but please leave the generation exp bonus alone :(.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Thick on April 29, 2011, 03:48:11 pm
NO WAY. People would whine no matter what happens. It's not that their weapons aren't OP it's that they just suck. Leave it as is. They can always create new characters if they are THAT unhappy about it.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Garrus on April 29, 2011, 03:48:21 pm
My only request it that if such marginal changes come (slowered leveling),
then announce it as soon as possible. If I know it will be coming,
I retire and make a final build. I had this character for experimenting, and I've stucked at lvl30 :P
Now I've solved, retired at lvl30 and now going for my final build for this character.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Beauchamp on April 29, 2011, 03:48:32 pm
there is not more whinning than after any previous patch. and people mostly want to respec heirlooms and not anything else (which is quite understandable, except for a few sidesworders)

still i'd not mind you to do it, but i think there will be more tweakings until this patch is balanced so if to wipe everything completely you should wait, otherwise you'll have to do it in a short time again.

also reseting everybody to lvl1 with no gold will hurt the casual players that waited for high lvls a long time the most and not those grinders that permacomplain. the best decisions are however made with cold head, so i think you should take your time before making any. than i'm sure you will know what is the best for the mod as you always knew it until now :o)

Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on April 29, 2011, 03:49:54 pm
nice idea, but you had to wipe out the play style of every player as well.

chadz, I don't remember, where you in the Warband beta? It was exactly the same there only with less people, after every freaking patch whine and contra-whine were unbearable. And there was no database and noone was disadvanted, but none the less the whine was exactly like this.

btw they tried something very similar back then with cav lancing. the angle was a bit wider than now but the idea was the same. but it really took out the fun of being cav just like now so they reverted that.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 29, 2011, 03:52:42 pm
I guess with a simple heirloom-reset most people would be satisfied...

And i think contemplating the massve changes it actually is kinda justfied...

i agree. i don't have the time to grind back to level 30 again.. so i'm up for heirlooms reset even if my main is gen11.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Ottomans_Guard on April 29, 2011, 03:54:13 pm
new patch pls
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Radix on April 29, 2011, 03:57:56 pm
You can take everything away all day everyday sure but please leave the generation exp bonus alone :(.

No way dude, actualy the majority of ppl that whine are poeple with creazy 20-30 generation chars. The gen bonus have been fixed. Do u rly enjoy so much 4 times bigger advantage over new players or ppl that actualy have  a life? dont make a second WOW of this game.

Few fixes and everything will be fine. Wipe is a good idea, some fresh air finally and I say so depiste the fact im 1/4 to 31 and depsite the fact I have 3 weeks of exams now and won't be able to play from the begining, but this is good for the mod.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: cutsomecheesewithmybow on April 29, 2011, 04:06:03 pm
No way dude, actualy the majority of ppl than whine are poeple with creazy 20-30 generation chars. The gen bonus have been fixed. Do u rly enjoy so much 4 times bigger advantage over new players or ppl that actualy have  a life?
Of course i do! I have always been humble and took my share of abuse because I knew one day retiering will pay off in a way of huge exp bonus, even before janurary when there was an alternative to retirement.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Damatacus_ATS on April 29, 2011, 04:10:34 pm
I would be ok with resting things so that people could re-roll their characters, but don't take away gold, generations, and experience.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 04:12:07 pm
Do it chadz!!

Be a man and do it!!

Dont pussy around just do this shit!!

I wanna see people crying!!

I wanna see people raging!!

DO IT!!

Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 29, 2011, 04:12:13 pm
Just give the patch a little time chadzy, let the dust settle down and they will come to like it. The changes are good.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Ronan on April 29, 2011, 04:12:49 pm
Bah! I say do it. You and your team put a massive amount of time into this FREE game for people to enjoy and what do you get for it? WHINE! None the less, people will whine... The bigger it is the bigger the whine.
  I am some what disappointed in the first release of this patch because it has some bugs. Like invisible Samurai! Totally not realistic, I mean we still havent figured out how to use the whole "star wars" cloak thingy-a-bob. So I tend to believe samurai did not either back in the day. Just my opinion though... You never know.

  Seriously though, I dont think people should be whining about their heirlooms. Arent you going to allow trade/selling heirlooms in strat. ? If so these lil babies can just go through it again, save the weapon theyve heirloomed and give it to a clan mate to help em out, trade for a different weapon someone else might have, use it as a negotiation piece for bartering, or any of the multiple possibilities that may be out there.

  Youre doing a great job. People just hate change. Its like masturbating with the wrong hand, it frustrates people.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 04:13:44 pm
I say wipe ! it would be fun paying peasents!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Wulzzz on April 29, 2011, 04:13:47 pm
I guess with a simple heirloom-reset most people would be satisfied...

This..along with skills/stat reset if the changes are big

Otherwise you kinda take out a big rpg part out.
...no need for drama queen drama  :oops:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Torp on April 29, 2011, 04:14:36 pm
well... i hate it.

The reason i like this mod is that it allows your character to get some progress; it gets better the more you play. That concept would be ruined if tehre is a wipe every two months.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Thovex on April 29, 2011, 04:15:05 pm
Just wipe everything already. :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Thomas Dixon on April 29, 2011, 04:16:48 pm
i just want a heirloom reset
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: SeQuel on April 29, 2011, 04:20:50 pm
Wipe it, please. I'd like to finally be on par with those 10+ gens.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: weight on April 29, 2011, 04:23:59 pm
Some people actually lost their heirlooms (they just dissapered). I think it would be fair to give a 1 change heirloom assingment based on generation with a cap of maximum heirlooms. Retiring after reaching the maximum heirloom cap would allow you to change 1 heirloom point into something else. (Masterwork longsword -> 2nd tier longsword + 1st tier something else)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Punisher on April 29, 2011, 04:30:33 pm
Considering the many changes brought by this patch, including the new gen xp bonus, a database wipe is the only thing that would be 100% fair for everybody. Not necessarily a full wipe, but reseting everyone to generation 1 and deleting all heirlooms.

A less draconian measure that will partially solve the problem and make people stop whining would be a simple heirloom reset.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cepeshi on April 29, 2011, 04:32:00 pm
well, there already was a heirloom theft when the heirlooms got divided by three, and since then you could reheirloom again, so it might make the counting a bit messy if you take just the generation into consideration

edit: i believe swipe would make few of my friends quit as they work and were just about to retire for first time after three months of playing....
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 04:33:53 pm
Considering the many changes brought by this patch, including the new gen xp bonus, a database wipe is the only thing that would be 100% fair for everybody. Not necessarily a full wipe, but reseting everyone to generation 1 and deleting all heirlooms

This ^^

But i can understand the people raging as they have put alot of time and effort into being there gens.

DO IT!! Let the rage block out the sun!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: ThePoopy on April 29, 2011, 04:36:06 pm
RESET INCOMING!!! YEEY, i think
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Reinhardt on April 29, 2011, 04:36:11 pm
It's not really the "I want my build to be op!!@1" for me. It's more so the fact that things are STILL unbalanced and some things even more so with the new patch.  Yes, new game modes, new items, and some actual bug FIXES and things are good, but there has to be SOME reward for retiring and all the builds have to be balanced. If you talk about balance, why are you letting horse archers roam free while being OP now more than ever? Why are the throwing lances easier to get yet just as powerful? 1her nerf? Alright, I'll take it. Heirloom nerf? It needed a balance, I'll take it. Crushtrhough nerf? Good! Throwing-ish nerf? Good! needed to be done! Still lolstab 2hers? Long Pike? Cavalry only hitting in frontal direction? The players whining about cavalry and archers have no idea what they're talking about. I think the only thing needed to be nerfed a little bit was throwing, and the game would be more or less balanced.

The patches need to be tested before being brought into cRPG I think. If they are tested, I honestly don't see it. Also, perhaps gradual change in patches in stead of huge ass patches every 6 months would be better. Keep the players happy because they don't have to literally take a week to rage, come back and realize they're still addicted, and then play again until the next big patch which nerfs everything. After these big patches, so many things needs to be fixed that it doesn't seem worth it. Why not release more patches... maybe once a month, just to address the issues needed to be addressed?

Also, a way to reduce whine is to actually let the players know that some things will be nerfed and things wil lbe changed..... now all it is is the devs releasing a huge patch with tons of confusion and everybody raging.

EDIT: Why would you want to wipe the DB every patch? There's many other (and better) ways to do it.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 04:37:16 pm
Do a full wipe.

People who have gen'd give them tokens everytime they heirloom after the wipe they get one token (one of there previous heirlooms) till they run out then back to normal.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Yugop on April 29, 2011, 04:39:05 pm
Imo you should have done that for each and every major patch. Would have saved a lot of tears and pointless chatter.
Of course I'd rather be for a "partial" wipe (gold and generation resets, mainly), but wiping out everything could do too.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tydeus on April 29, 2011, 04:39:56 pm
Considering the many changes brought by this patch, including the new gen xp bonus, a database wipe is the only thing that would be 100% fair for everybody. Not necessarily a full wipe, but reseting everyone to generation 1 and deleting all heirlooms.

A less draconian measure that will partially solve the problem and make people stop whining would be a simple heirloom reset.
Except that it isn't 100% fair. It becomes fair AFTERWARDS, the act itself isn't fair though. The action itself isn't fair because: Many people will lose far more than others will lose. I'll lose the 1000+ hours it took me to get my heirlooms and xp bonus.

Fuck if you're going to do anything take the heirlooms, but give me my gen 25 xp back, I don't care if I have to retire 10 fucking times just to loom one item once, I still want to be able to level at the "not slow as fuck" speed.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Beauchamp on April 29, 2011, 04:40:58 pm
320809*)(*
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Reinhardt on April 29, 2011, 04:41:49 pm
It is impossible to achieve "perfect" balance in a single patch, especially when the only ones testing the new values and changes are a few men. Having a "closed beta" for each balance patch would help to ensure that more items remain balanced and the amount of whine reduced.

+1
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: SquishMitten on April 29, 2011, 04:42:07 pm
I want my pink hair back :(
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

also full wipe is a good idea
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cepeshi on April 29, 2011, 04:42:25 pm
Quote
I still want to be able to level at the "not slow as fuck" speed.

this :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Galgorth on April 29, 2011, 04:43:32 pm
The solution is to stop trolling your users with crappy updates and cryptic posts
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 29, 2011, 04:47:23 pm
Well if you add funny animations to stab...
If you edit cav fight and only allow them to poke forward...
If you buff archery accuracy ...
If you increase all upkeeps...
If you ruin all the bonus that gen 30 had and didn't add anything to stop grindfest...
If you don't allow people to grab thrown weapons...
If you add only russian items...
If you don't even announce that items will be added with the patch...
Yes,people whine chadz...

This. What the hell do you expect chadz? You and the community take pride in you never giving any heads up and being a troll, yet somehow you are surprised that people bitch at you?

Sure, wipe the whole data base.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Jorium on April 29, 2011, 04:50:47 pm
Honestly don't expect you to change but a huge solution to reduce whine is to make a *complete* changelog for the upcoming patch and post it before hand.  When people see the change coming they can mentally adjust and decide if they need to change playstyle.  But when it comes out of no-where and now everything is different people are shocked and feel betrayed that their item/playstyle was changed without warning.  For example I'm pretty sure anyone around the forums knew that crush-through was being dealt with in the patch, but I never once saw mention of the cav changes that occured in the patch.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 04:53:01 pm
It is his mod he can do *cartman* What He Wants!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tydeus on April 29, 2011, 04:55:24 pm
For example I'm pretty sure anyone around the forums knew that crush-through was being dealt with in the patch, but I never once saw mention of the cav changes that occured in the patch.

I also haven't seen a single person complain about the crushthrough nerfs. My guess is this is more than a coincidence.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gaunt on April 29, 2011, 04:57:58 pm
This is the way to do it:

Reset now
Don't again till there are big changes
Remove the xp bonus for retiring, it's retarded and just gives an advantage to people without a life

I think retiring should be a way to try a new build without losing wealth and gear, not a way to make a super character. In real life people don't automatically do better than their ancestors, though they may have their ancestor's famous equipment.

Also who cares about the whiners anyway..
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: _JoG_ on April 29, 2011, 05:04:49 pm
This is the way to do it:

Reset now
Don't again till there are big changes
Remove the xp bonus for retiring, it's retarded and just gives an advantage to people without a life

I think retiring should be a way to try a new build without losing wealth and gear, not a way to make a super character. In real life people don't automatically do better than their ancestors, though they may have their ancestor's famous equipment.

Also who cares about the whiners anyway..
Agreed.

The only thing I could add to this is that database wipes are better to be avoided after Strategus re-launch. So, it's better to do it now when it's not yet functional.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on April 29, 2011, 05:05:46 pm
Maybe you should just reset the whiners  :lol:

At least then their complaints will be legitimate.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cepeshi on April 29, 2011, 05:07:01 pm
really?

go shoot yourself for the no life arguments, i have a life, i work, i spend time with friends, yet i am gen 11, and what? am i nolifer? no. am i progressed further than most of casual players? perhaps, but that is cause i choose to spend the small amount of my free time playing

if you can not play just as long as someone else, do not expect to be on the same level as him man, seriously

retiring for new spec? yeah, worked quite well now, everytime i wanted to try out new spec, i rushed 31 and retired, voila...and i believe most of the guys using "no life" arguments have loads of alternative characters...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: cmp on April 29, 2011, 05:07:51 pm
Maybe you should just reset the whiners  :lol:

At least then their complaints will be legitimate.

-1 gen for each whine post
instead of gen 90 we'd have gen -90
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tydeus on April 29, 2011, 05:12:15 pm
In real life people don't automatically do better than their ancestors, though they may have their ancestor's famous equipment.
In real life people are rewarded for their effort and time.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kunio on April 29, 2011, 05:13:16 pm
Well if you add funny animations to stab...
If you edit cav fight and only allow them to poke forward...
If you buff archery accuracy ...
If you increase all upkeeps...
If you ruin all the bonus that gen 30 had and didn't add anything to stop grindfest...
If you don't allow people to grab thrown weapons...
If you add only russian items...
If you don't even announce that items will be added with the patch...
Yes,people whine chadz...

+1

gen 18 gains 1450 exp per min, gen 33 gains 1450 exp per min...

fair?

ok then...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: krampe on April 29, 2011, 05:16:31 pm
Definatly no,
i'm not super high gen (7 atm), only retired to loom my favorite weapon.
But nonetheless it was a lot of time for me, i don't have so much time to play and i wouldn't do it again, there wouldn't be any RPG in cRPG left.
I have neither a problem with super high gens who have everything and her mother heirloomed.
Heirlooms are only such a small advantage i could easily discard them, but not my generation bonus.

I like to play different styles and weapons, yes i can twink and i have a char for everything, but since you announced that there
will be only one strategus char there is no use at all to have more than one and play him.

You'd hit you're old playerbase for the newfolks who still think gen/heirloom let them become better players...
It's just a gimmick and a timesaver especially for people who played this for a very long time and cba to start from scratch again.
Ok, i'm not a "charge server reset inc" veteran, i only started around september, but i still leveled my char up to level 44 two times pre 0.2.

I always laughed about ppl who said that, but...

DB wipe = GTX
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Nindur on April 29, 2011, 05:21:42 pm
Keep working on strat, don't worry about people whining about other things, they are not important. When strat comes back the people who actually put alot of time and effort into this community will be happy.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Adam_Bomb on April 29, 2011, 05:36:14 pm
I've spent the last few months looming my favorite weapon.  Please don't wipe the heirlooms, maybe let us respec them. I think the frustration of losing the tiny heirloom bonus which I worked so hard for would convince me to play other games instead...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tydeus on April 29, 2011, 05:39:04 pm
The sad thing about this thread is that none of the people who are using the "have no life" or "Finally be on even ground" arguments are actually making a decision that is rationally grounded. The new xp system would only make it harder than it already is for people to get heirlooms. Thus the gap between the have's and have-not's will only widen more than it is now. The people who play a lot will continue to play a lot and get heirlooms while those who only play a little bit, will struggle just to get a single weapon masterworked after several months.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: MouthnHoof on April 29, 2011, 05:39:09 pm
Periodic rests? Yes that would work, I am all for it.

Getting the money for your equipment is almost as fast as leveling to meet the requirements. I'll be back in vanilla gear in no time. Heirlooms are a small compensation that one has no life. At least heirlooms are healthier than eating icecream as compensation.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Radix on April 29, 2011, 05:41:34 pm
I've spent the last few months looming my favorite weapon.  Please don't wipe the heirlooms, maybe let us respec them. I think the frustration of losing the tiny heirloom bonus which I worked so hard for would convince me to play other games instead...

Next time u will know that working on your skills rather than grinding and working for heirlooms pays off in the future. No one can wipe ur skills.
PPl forget what M&B is. Unlike other games it is meant to be 80% skill and 20% EQ u wear.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 05:43:15 pm
wipe wipe wipe  :twisted:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 29, 2011, 05:45:36 pm
-1 gen for each whine post
instead of gen 90 we'd have gen -90

This would be great, I support this.

I myself am not going to do a whine post until a solid two weeks have past, so I can actually see how everything interacts and how the community adapts.

Honestly things seem ok at this  point. Yeah, my archer can not punk cav anymore by whipping  a pike out at the last second, but honestly, this makes me value the friendly pikemen more. I have a lot of fond memories of being paired with one or two guys and protecting each other in battle, and this patch just rewards it.

The only thing I hate has nothing to do with game balance, and that is the idiotic ten second rule and leech poles, but I can see, to be faie, how that was implemented To experiment with. A nice try...

So everyone just shush, and see how the new battles go. Yeah, you may have been nerfed in a place, but so was everyone else. Gameplay takes precedence over your favorite gizmo. I love that I built a character off of a concept, and all of my alts too. I never have to worry about me heirlooming an op thing only to find it is no longer op after a patch, for I mainly just play for fun and not to exploit Gizmo X hackmaster nine thousand and make a build out of it.

You all wanted a rebalance, so here it is. chadz finally released a patch so be happy. The best thing we can do right now is play for a while and explore the new battle dynamics, see how everything interacts and explore new synergies, then offer constructive feed back with possible solutions on any bugs, glitches, or broken gameplay features to chadz and the devs.

TLDR version: Shut up and play.

Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 05:45:53 pm
Wipe wipe wipe wipe
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 05:51:50 pm
TLDR version: Shut up and play.

No, get on here and whine!! Whine till he chadz' face goes ragey and wipes everything!


I will gladly play peasant and never heirloom again.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on April 29, 2011, 05:58:49 pm
I will look at this from a point of view of someone who has been playing pre-patches. I am gen 8.  Not a "famous hardcore veteran" but I saw what cRPG used to be like. I spent 6 of those gens heirlooming my sniper and the steel bolts. There have been changes throughout the development, affecting my builds, for example when the first patch came, I decided to try archery (derp). If you wiped the database, I would be saddened to see what I initially perceive to be hard work gone down the drain (the crossbow setup). However, the mod will go on, and there have been lots of improvements, like the new UI on the site, the extended (legal now?) voice commands. Weighing up some transient items against the fact you can still have persistent stats, and organise tactics, and customise your character, I would not mind losing my stuff so much. chadz this is your mod, not World of Warcraft, or contrarily, Native. So do with it what you will. I will still play, and a lot of other people will still play too.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Blondin on April 29, 2011, 06:06:03 pm
The problem is that the community have changed, trolling dev post were taken with a smile before, now ppl overreacted and ask for respect.

But they should respect you(and dev team ofc) for the work you do for free.

I laugh when ppl say they waste time for heirloom and shit, but you waste a lot of time coding the mod for this ppl that don't even thank you.

Yeah a wipe is needed, i will love peasant wars, but first do a wipe of this community...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Liveon on April 29, 2011, 06:12:53 pm
Advice for el perro del hortelano who howl: wipe, wipe, wipe and remove, remove, remove ...
Go play in the Native WB.
All wipe, all remove...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Ganon on April 29, 2011, 06:13:04 pm
My maior concern has never been with some advantage of my character, but about a few things being OP (like throwing). I guess resetting at every patch is the next into removing the rpg part from crpg. I don't know what difference it then has with native ?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Keshian on April 29, 2011, 06:15:45 pm
The big whiners for the patch (most vocal) don't represent the larger community.  These whiners (and far from all of them) seem to be the people approving this idea of a full database wipe (which you promised never to do again).  DOn't give in to them.  I actually like the changes, obviosuly some few bug tweaks needed, but a full database wipe at this point would just end up being obnoxious.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Ming on April 29, 2011, 06:17:20 pm
I have thought a long time about what caused this amount of whine. The answer is actually quite easy:

People are not looking for balance, they are looking for advantage. If an advantage is taken from them, no matter if justified or not, they whine. Pretty understandable, actually.

So, using the principle of "don't hate the players, hate the game", it's up to me to propose a solution to this problem. The only fair way (and most efficient one, too!) is to wipe the database every time new weapon stats are released. This will ensure that no one is at a disadvantage, because everyone can find the new "OP" weapon, like everyone else.

Opinions?

Firstly, thank you for all your efforts. I think its not fair however to make every1 the same again because some of us have spent hundreds more hours playing this game than others, so i think they deserve a treat, at least something in return. I have heirloomed my glaive 3 times and now i am very disappointed because i really cant afford the upkeep.

solution1: let players repick their heirlooms again, eg: my MW glaive to 3 times heirloom of any weapon of my choice

solution2: Erase the datebase completly but keep some of the generation bonus


i prefer the solution1 myself, but its up to you to decide. i sincerely hope you can make a change, this new patch is disappointing quite a few of your loyal players.

:)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 29, 2011, 06:18:01 pm
The big whiners for the patch (most vocal) don't represent the larger community.  These whiners (and far from all of them) seem to be the people approving this idea of a full database wipe (which you promised never to do again).  DOn't give in to them.  I actually like the changes, obviosuly some few bug tweaks needed, but a full database wipe at this point would just end up being obnoxious.

<3

The whiners are indeed only a small part of the community.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bobthehero on April 29, 2011, 06:20:52 pm
Nope, hate peasant wars with a passion, a heirloom restat would be better.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Lako on April 29, 2011, 06:23:15 pm
Wipe for the wipe god!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gurnisson on April 29, 2011, 06:26:04 pm
eg: my MW glaive to 3 times heirloom of any weapon of my choice

Standard. When the weapons ain't op anymore, people want to grab the next one. Never fails.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tydeus on April 29, 2011, 06:26:15 pm
The big whiners for the patch (most vocal) don't represent the larger community.  These whiners (and far from all of them) seem to be the people approving this idea of a full database wipe (which you promised never to do again).  DOn't give in to them.  I actually like the changes, obviosuly some few bug tweaks needed, but a full database wipe at this point would just end up being obnoxious.
This. God this.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Konstrush on April 29, 2011, 06:27:18 pm
Quote
Wipe for the wipe god!

amen!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Dragonette on April 29, 2011, 06:28:04 pm
I think everyone wants balance, ultimately, and the desire for an unfair advantage is not the motive behind 99% of these "whine" posts.

The #1 issue is that people get used to the game design in terms of leveling, builds, gens, retiring, heirlooming and everything else, and then they spend countless hours developing their characters according to that design, only to have everything they've worked for pulled out from under them in one giant nuclear bomb of a patch. 

A scalpel should have been applied carefully and gradually to tweak the game over time but instead it feels as if a freaking War Axe just cleaved CRPG right between the eyes.

I am only Gen 3 and I feel like I have wasted a lot of time heirlooming my OP sidesword to Balanced, which got absolutely mauled this patch.  I can't imagine what it feels like to have multiple heirloomed items nerfed into oblivion.

It's hard to have the desire to play the game when you know it could all be for nothing in the end. 

I came from Native to CRPG as a 1h/shielder and the first thing I noticed was that archers, while still deadly, were not blotting out the sun as they did on the GK server.  Throwers were annoying but I could cope.  Calvary was annoying but I could cope with that.  I hated crushthrough/knockdown weapons but I learned to go on the offense immediately and to dodge a lot, sometimes giving me the win against a barmace user or anything similar. 

Overall it seemed pretty balanced.





Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bobthehero on April 29, 2011, 06:28:14 pm
The big whiners for the patch (most vocal) don't represent the larger community.  These whiners (and far from all of them) seem to be the people approving this idea of a full database wipe (which you promised never to do again).  DOn't give in to them.  I actually like the changes, obviosuly some few bug tweaks needed, but a full database wipe at this point would just end up being obnoxious.

This

I only wish you'd bring back the long espada as it seems its the only item that strangely disapeared...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Furax on April 29, 2011, 06:28:59 pm
Thank all things everywhere that cav lancing was fixed again:) Was some pretty pitiful looking lancing there awhile. Where onehanded cav dominated lancer cav, which just makes no sense=P



 :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Paul on April 29, 2011, 06:34:31 pm
cRPG only adds in Russian items? Coincidence? I doubt it. It's clearly racism towards the Turks.

The claim that those items got added because of decent models is obviously a lie.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Blackstone on April 29, 2011, 06:35:55 pm
My suggestion is that you do nothing chadz, and simply let people vent. The essence of therapy is to create space to allow others to work out their own issues.

By wiping out the database you are:
1. Allowing yourself to be influenced by those that whine (compare your database player numbers against the number who whine, to determine if they represent a minority or majority)
2. Not considering the silent population that accepts the changes made
3. Disregarding whatever efforts individuals made in the last year to customize their characters through retirements

If you decide to wipe the database for the present situation, then you will most likely do it in other situations, and this results in removing a huge incentive factor for players to customize their characters over time. If you want player engagement to this game, than I submit that wipes is not the solution.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Susanin on April 29, 2011, 06:37:32 pm
Wipe sounds like a very good idea!
p.s: High generations is the work of the devil!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 06:40:05 pm
Standard. When the weapons ain't op anymore, people want to grab the next one. Never fails.

Yes but people dont genuinly know what the next op weapon is, i have stuck with my military pick for the last 2 major patches and i would probably do it again the only thing i would like to do is put my 3 heirlooms i had on my xbow into something more fitting since i cant really weild them both at same time anymore.

Id use them on some medium armour and just stick to my shield and 1 handed.

But if not ill be happy to use it now and again seperatly.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: v/onMega on April 29, 2011, 06:40:16 pm
O M F G
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 06:41:27 pm
cRPG only adds in Russian items? Coincidence? I doubt it. It's clearly racism towards the Turks.

The claim that those items got added because of decent models is obviously a lie.

Obviously it isnt because someone took the effort to actually recommend some decent skins...

Although the white shogun armour looks like something from star wars...

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Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 06:43:55 pm
Lets face it the people who claim they will stop playing if there was a full wipe are liers and would keep playing anyway (or play under a different name) a full wipe when the game has just been rebalanced would be the best thing as everyone would be on a equal playing field !

I see people are also trying to pass off the people who want a wipe as whiners like the people who complain about different weapons but that is not the case, it has been a good few months and it is time for a wipe. 
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bobthehero on April 29, 2011, 06:45:43 pm
No fuck wipes, I hate them D:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 06:46:30 pm
White shogun is bad black shogun is better

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Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 06:47:15 pm
White troopers everywhere!!

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Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Reinhardt on April 29, 2011, 06:48:56 pm
No, get on here and whine!! Whine till he chadz' face goes ragey and wipes everything!


I will gladly play peasant and never heirloom again.

I tried to keep my "whine" about the cav nerf as "non-whiney" as possible. :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 06:49:45 pm
Black shogun is not amused so he changed...
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Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Reinhardt on April 29, 2011, 06:50:00 pm
cRPG only adds in Russian items? Coincidence? I doubt it. It's clearly racism towards the Turks.

The claim that those items got added because of decent models is obviously a lie.

Oh yeah. We need to remake the spammitar with different/random stats with a slightly different model and keep throwing it into the game.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tydeus on April 29, 2011, 06:50:54 pm
This

I only wish you'd bring back the long espada as it seems its the only item that strangely disapeared...
Langes disappeared too, which makes me believe that the Gross disappeared too.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 06:51:11 pm
Toasting in an epic bread

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Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bobthehero on April 29, 2011, 06:51:45 pm
Who whinned about russian stuff, what a bunch of idiotic pricks
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 06:52:16 pm
White shogun only care's about toast and penis i am making the world a better place

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Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kunio on April 29, 2011, 06:57:04 pm
I love this mod so I'm playing this mode for more than eight months. All this time, i had a lot of fun. Thanks chadz. But i am disappointed for having very close conditions with someone who starting to play this mod. Maybe the players that think like me can relax with a new fix. Good work.


Sorry for my bad English...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Sambeer on April 29, 2011, 06:57:43 pm
THIS IS MADNESS!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Korgoth on April 29, 2011, 07:00:04 pm
cRPG only adds in Russian items? Coincidence? I doubt it. It's clearly racism towards the Turks.

The claim that those items got added because of decent models is obviously a lie.

Well Narfs Rus armour pack is fucking awesome. I wanted them so much a made a post about them to try and get them in.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2633.0.html

I don't remember seeing any post about some Turk armour, and racism? Yeh let's pull that card out. We won't add in Turk armour because we all know that chadz and the Dev team are all racists. Seriously I hope you was being sarcastic.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 29, 2011, 07:01:51 pm
Well Narfs Rus armour pack is fucking awesome. I wanted them so much a made a post about them to try and get them in.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2633.0.html

I don't remember seeing any post about some Turk armour, and racism? Yeh let's pull that card out. We won't add in Turk armour because we all know that chadz and the Dev team are all racists. Seriously I hope you was being sarcastic.

He was making fun of a certain clan that counters almost every argument with "You racist against Turks?"
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bobthehero on April 29, 2011, 07:02:44 pm
Well Turks are Turks quite an annoying bunch here  :?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 07:03:38 pm
Let face it they are a bit backward....
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Korgoth on April 29, 2011, 07:07:52 pm
He was making fun of a certain clan that counters almost every argument with "You racist against Turks?"

lol I thought he was a Turk playing the Racist card :P
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: SquishMitten on April 29, 2011, 07:09:12 pm
Let face it they are a bit backward....

shitstorm in 3.... 2..... 1.....
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 29, 2011, 07:09:24 pm
lol I thought he was a Turk playing the Racist card :P

Wait, what is that supposed to mean, are you saying that only turks can call out racism?!

You Racist Against Turks?!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Daergar on April 29, 2011, 07:10:42 pm
Standard. When the weapons ain't op anymore, people want to grab the next one. Never fails.

You could view it as a compliment to the work done on balancing items. I can completely see why someone who loomed his, for example, barmace (lost CS) or heavy lance (very high speed reduction) three times would enjoy looming something else, given that "their" heirloomed item changed very drastically.

On the flipside, I have MW Arabian cavalry sword. It lost some minor damage and speed, and I am not complaining one bit, as long as it fits into the new balance scheme. If, however, it had been a sidesword, which now would be utterly useless for my playstyle (overheads and swings aimed at the head) since it lost so much of its cutting damage, how can you be surprised if I had felt shafted and simply desired to use my hundreds of grinding hours on a new weapon that would suit my playstyle once more?

It rarely works out well when you clump people together and judge and treat them as a single cohesive unit.

And what exacly IS a database wipe to the devs/chadz? Everything? Heirloomed items? Generations? What?

Because from a personal view, grinding for gold for hundreds of hours again would not be interesting, at all. If for some reason it's fun to have players use your mod and enjoy your hard work, slapping them on the nose and scolding them because they whine a bit when drastic changes are made... well, it'd be odd. Just let people test out the patch and balance it as we go, which is how RnD has worked for a pretty long time.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 07:12:34 pm
shitstorm in 3.... 2..... 1.....


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Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 07:19:39 pm
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....
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: krampe on April 29, 2011, 07:21:34 pm
The turks had to experience quite a lot racism on the servers and so they are sensitised.
An overreaction now and then can happen, thanks to the community.

Nice derail btw
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 07:21:46 pm
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....


Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Korgoth on April 29, 2011, 07:24:28 pm
Wait, what is that supposed to mean, are you saying that only turks can call out racism?!

You Racist Against Turks?!

Yes.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: MrShine on April 29, 2011, 07:36:15 pm
Wow, the patch has been out for what, like 20 hours and people are making it sound like the apocalypse is coming.

Let's calm the fuck down.

Here's what a server wipe will accomplish: 
-It will piss off lots of dedicated high gen players, possibly driving some who were previously on the fence with sticking around to finding a new game to play.
-It will show the whiners and trolls that the development can be swayed and they'll use that in the future.

Doing a database reset will screw over a lot of people's time and effort more than it will balance everything else.  Contrary to the whiner mantra heir-loomed equipment is only a minor advantage that player skill and character build will overcome pretty much every time.  With the recent changes to slot requirements the amount of heir-loomed equipment you can wear has been reduced anyway, so there has already been a subtle 'nerf' to high gen players in this way.

Everyone goes from 1-31 and back again, even the high gen characters will go through their peasant phase like everyone else, the ONLY gameplay advantage they have is the minor bonus to some of their equipment.  Sure they can level quicker, but that seems like a nice bonus since it doesn't affect gameplay, just the ability for them to try new builds at a quicker rate.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on April 29, 2011, 07:37:01 pm
If there isn't a full wipe I'm gonna GTX.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Korgoth on April 29, 2011, 07:38:20 pm
Hey there's no Black Steppe armour. RACISM AGAINS'T JAPANESE NINJA!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Keshian on April 29, 2011, 07:41:29 pm
If there isn't a full wipe I'm gonna GTX.

LULZ
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: soc_em_roc_em on April 29, 2011, 07:51:08 pm
I made a suggestion in Suggestion Corner on how to deal with whining. Basically, just make a forum meant for whining posts and replies, and then forum moderators can move any such whiny posts to this forum. Also, change the whiner's avatar to a crying baby.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kocik_4th on April 29, 2011, 07:55:08 pm
Just remove retirement, generations and heirlooming already. It'll fix most of it.
Yeah do it. Or redistribute heirloom points
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Blondin on April 29, 2011, 08:04:47 pm
If there isn't a full wipe I'm gonna GTX.

+1
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: cmp on April 29, 2011, 08:05:36 pm
If there isn't a full wipe I'm gonna GTX.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 29, 2011, 08:06:42 pm
If there isn't a full wipe I'm gonna GTX.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kingtrisp on April 29, 2011, 08:07:53 pm
If there isn't a full wipe I'm gonna GTX.
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Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Korgoth on April 29, 2011, 08:08:47 pm
If there isn't a full wipe I'm gonna GTX.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: AzureSkys on April 29, 2011, 08:16:53 pm
If there isn't a full GTX I'm gonna wipe.

err, wait... did i say that right?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: ManOfWar on April 29, 2011, 08:18:09 pm
If there isn't a full wipe I'm gonna GTX.
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Im lovin this part of the thread, god im laughing out loud

- on another note, A wipe would be ok I guess, Im sure the majority would stay
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Thovex on April 29, 2011, 08:19:55 pm
If there isn't a full wipe I'm gonna GTX.

Heehee, I see what you did there.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gatsby on April 29, 2011, 08:22:32 pm
Honestly i think this is the worst solution. If ppl whine for new wepons or stats really are not good to play this game, that s all.
But why all the other players whit no problems with this stuff have to loose their hours of game i can not understand.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: ManOfWar on April 29, 2011, 08:24:24 pm
I need to retire again to become sword and board, I wouldnt mind I wipe right about now, and just remove damned heirlooms or replace it with something, I dont know :(
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Reinhardt on April 29, 2011, 08:29:15 pm
You're missing the point... chadz was thinking about a full wipe. I think instead of saying "if you HAVE to do something....(insert heirloom reset/etc here)" we should be saying that he only needs to fix the bugs involved with the patches.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: ToxicKilla on April 29, 2011, 08:38:34 pm
A wipe would suck. Would be even more of a grind fest. No thank you.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: chadz on April 29, 2011, 08:40:49 pm
For all that didn't realise it, the first post was sarcasm.

Also, because I'm in a writing mood: stop thinking that cRPG is just me. That's long ago. cRPG is a team project, and everyone does his part.

I also usually do not know all about upcoming changes - quite on the contrary, actually. I never ever touch the items, I have used the same 8 weapon and armor for 6 months and don't even know the names of 80% of the items in cRPG, let alone their stats. So please stop asking me why I did this or that, because I don't even know what you are talking about :P

Most stuff happens because most of our team agrees on one thing: diversity is a good thing. Yes, changes are good. That will happen again, and again, and again. If it doesn't happen any more it means none of us cares about the game any more. Which would be not good.

cRPG is a sandbox game for you, as players, but it's also a sandbox game for us, as developers. We have fun doing different things. We have fun testing new things out. And I am perfectly fine with that.  I think that is what keeps a game alive. That is actually what held me with M&B since a very early beta was released - the idea of "what will happen next?". I was thrilled what a new patch would bring, how i could explore new game features etc.

It's actually sad to see that so many people don't really care about the collection of awesome manipulations of the original warband that cRPG is. Yes, I can say proudly that we pushed the technical limits of the mod in every direction possible. From all the things cRPG is and can be, most of the people just care about if the item they happen to use lost one or two damage points.

That makes me a sad panda.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Varric on April 29, 2011, 08:45:10 pm
It's official; chadz is not a donkey, in fact he is a sad panda.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gaunt on April 29, 2011, 08:45:35 pm
Yes, I can say proudly that we pushed the technical limits of the mod in every direction possible.

Unfortunately you haven't tried adding iron-man perma death.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Rhaelys on April 29, 2011, 08:47:08 pm
It's official; chadz is not a donkey, in fact he is a sad panda.

Nature's saddest (excuse of a) species.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cepeshi on April 29, 2011, 08:47:25 pm
finally i got to play for a while and not that bad as everyone is saying, yeah, it might take some time to get used to some of the new features, but what the heck :P just the xp bonus made me feel sad :( :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Uhtred_III_of_Bebbanburg on April 29, 2011, 08:48:32 pm
I love cRPG!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Keshian on April 29, 2011, 08:49:28 pm

That makes me a sad panda.

Please don't go to the island of misfit mascots!!! On another note thanks for all the hard work.  I liek the aptch, some obvious bugs need fixed but thats normal, overall good changes and in the right direction.  Looking forward to trying out the changes on Strategus.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tuonela on April 29, 2011, 08:53:50 pm
For all that didn't realise it, the first post was sarcasm.

That makes me sad... people don't recognise sarcasm anymore  :?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 29, 2011, 08:56:56 pm
Honestly the only thing I dislike right now is that i can not change items in server anymore. I love everything else, honestly. Such a challenge now and it promotes better team play and less rambos!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cachito on April 29, 2011, 08:58:24 pm
Salute.
Only melee people get some benefits with this patch, because the most injured ppl are precisaly range players. I hope you allow a new skill and atribute points redistribution as soon as you can.
Anyway, in my opinion, this patch is horrible and break the fun and gameplay balance. Any other idea will be wellcome to fix this desastre.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Penchik on April 29, 2011, 08:59:12 pm
Fix the equipchange ingame ability plz.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Goretooth on April 29, 2011, 09:00:11 pm
Please don't go to the island of misfit mascots!!! On another note thanks for all the hard work.  I liek the aptch, some obvious bugs need fixed but thats normal, overall good changes and in the right direction.  Looking forward to trying out the changes on Strategus.
:)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gaunt on April 29, 2011, 09:00:30 pm
Everyone should have two accounts..one ranged one melee, that way when a patch comes out nerfing whatever was over powered they can switch to the thing that is now over powered.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bull on April 29, 2011, 09:02:19 pm
I dare not filter through all the posts. Two thoughts:

1) Complete wipe? No problem! I love peasant wars!

2) Balance isn't as bad as you make it seem. I have a dedicated cavalry, hybrid shielder/thrower, dedicated polearm and dedicated 2H-er. I'm not a good player, but can get a decent score with any of them if I put my mind to it.

cRPG is the best F2P multiplayer game out there. Thanks for working so hard, chadz.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: HarleyThebeard on April 29, 2011, 09:03:33 pm
Personaly i wouldnt mind a loom reset....i just dont want to have to regrind for all my armor and what not that isnt loomed
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on April 29, 2011, 09:13:51 pm
CALM DOWN chadz, CALM DOWN   D:  ! DONT DO SOMETHING DUMB! DONT TAKE MY CHAR, CRPG IS MY LIFE!  :shock:

sad but almost true :p

i has idea, u need opeople who test the different types of weapons in game. people who really play with them, because u can only judge about something when u played it on ur own. (example: knight in plate cries about hes shot by an archer by 3 hits. what he doesnt know the archer has only power draw and only 15 arrows to shoot with, he propably has 0 IF and low ps so sucks in melee. that knight should test trying arching first before whine.)

just shit on whine chadz (except mine  :D) and arrange a team of playing testers who are really present in-game..
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: DoggsofWar on April 29, 2011, 10:14:37 pm
DO IT!!!!!! Oh please do it!!!! Please, please, please Do IT!!!! Its pretty hard for even a good player (not saying I am) to complete with someone who is loomed out the ass and with the xp nerf it will take forever to get there. If u reset then it is all back to skill and weapon choice instead of some crazy loomed out weapon kicking ur butt.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on April 29, 2011, 10:18:44 pm
DO IT!!!!!! Oh please do it!!!! Please, please, please Do IT!!!! Its pretty hard for even a good player (not saying I am) to complete with someone who is loomed out the ass and with the xp nerf it will take forever to get there. If u reset then it is all back to skill and weapon choice instead of some crazy loomed out weapon kicking ur butt.
Looms aren't that special.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Dragonette on April 29, 2011, 10:20:08 pm
Well...

I have to admit, this patch is better than I first thought.  I hated that I spent time heirlooming my sidsword only to have it nerfed, however due to the crazy money bugs last night, I had been avoiding actually playing, and instead have been reading all the horror stories on the forums.

I just played for the last couple of hours and I have to say that combat is actually much more exciting than it used to be.  Everything feels faster and more fluid.  Even though my side sword took a nasty damage nerf, I was able to compensate with the increased mobility we've been given.

Everyone is bitching about archers being overpowered, but honestly, they seemed fine.

I'll have to play it for a few more days before I come to a final decision, but despite all the negativity (my own included), I'm actually starting to like this patch.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tzar on April 29, 2011, 10:21:17 pm
Looms aren't that special.

QFT.

I just dont have time to lvl up my 2 charaters to 31 again since i have exam before summer vacation  :evil:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cheapshot on April 29, 2011, 10:31:32 pm
  What you should do is to stop listening to whiners.  When you change something because of the whining, you just show them that they can get results by whining.  It's like negotiating with terrorists  :)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: DoggsofWar on April 29, 2011, 10:36:17 pm
Looms aren't that special.

You are right, 1 or even 2 loomed items arent but when the person has ALL loomed items he/she is almost impossible to beat (armor & weapons)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Sayton on April 29, 2011, 10:42:37 pm
The best solution would be a big disclaimer when you launch the mod:

"THIS IS A BETA TEST VERSION OF cRPG, GAME EXPERIENCE MAY CHANGE DURING ONLINE PLAY"

or

"Shut up or GTFO"
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Momo on April 29, 2011, 10:44:59 pm
Yeah, wipe out my mace, I grinded 3 fucking months for that.. OR remove this heirloom system, problem solved...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Yaron on April 29, 2011, 10:47:02 pm
Didnt read everything in this thread. But:

How about giving ppl the possibility to reskill there char, when a patch with mayor changes is released ?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: frostbourne on April 29, 2011, 10:50:24 pm
i'm only pissed cause i spent 3 gens heirlooming my sword to find that it is not available. Without any compensation too
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: chaosegg on April 29, 2011, 11:04:22 pm
I lean towards no wipe, but I'd still play, and love it either way.

Great patch; just fix the bugs.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Malaclypse on April 29, 2011, 11:10:00 pm
I am all for a total wipe, having lost my heirlooms anyhow, I have nothing to lose, and peasant wars sound very, very fun.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Wulzzz on April 29, 2011, 11:13:09 pm
Well....and what will happen now?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Whalen207 on April 29, 2011, 11:25:13 pm
tl;dr: "We don't want to lose hours and hours of grinding just to start again  :mad:."

Instate that all Chars start at level 29.
And btw chadz, we're not whining because we want an advantage. We're whining because you don't ever post what changed. Those at a disadvantage suddenly suck. We feel like you just change things on a whim. You should play your own game once in a while.

ALSO FUCKING BUFF AGI
ITS POINTLESS
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Fkpuz on April 29, 2011, 11:27:16 pm
I would be totally for a complete wipe.  Bring those people who are at like gen 1million down a peg.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Razzer on April 29, 2011, 11:28:44 pm
Just change crpg to how it was a half year ago... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tydeus on April 29, 2011, 11:37:18 pm
Balance isn't as bad as you make it seem. I have a dedicated cavalry, hybrid shielder/thrower, dedicated polearm and dedicated 2H-er. I'm not a good player, but can get a decent score with any of them if I put my mind to it.
Wait that's... that's not called being balanced at all.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Nasturtium on April 30, 2011, 12:12:24 am
Here, lets all listen to some calm classical guitar.
Sit down and put your feet up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJUVgYsmyvY

 I know your upset chadz, with the amount of abuse you and your guys are getting, and as a programing student I can totally understand how much work went into this, and I am bummed at the amount of whine as well.  That being said you cannot in all fairness place the blame squarely on the playerbase, you and the other devs also have to take some ownership as well.
 
  If you want to decrease the amount of whine, I would suggest being slightly more transparent and interactive with the community in the dev process. If people had a slightly clearer idea of what you were working on and what to expect come release day, all the arguments and concerns, as well as built up frustration at any percieved imbalance in the current version would be dissipated over the course of months, rather than built up to a fever pitch of anticipation and dissatisfaction.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

 I certainly understand that you guys don't have the time to adress everyones suggestions and posts, and that to find a good idea you have to sift through loads of crazy, but you could certainly dissipate alot of stress simply by engaging the community more.

 And of course, players need to chill the fuck out as well.

  Thanks for the hours and hours of kicks, keep up the good work guys!

 -nast
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Malaclypse on April 30, 2011, 12:18:32 am
(click to show/hide)
Well said. Players need to approach devs with their concerns in a civil, respectful, thorough manner instead of just bitching about how their advantages are lost. +1
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: iood on April 30, 2011, 01:18:59 am
Maybe just make everybody lvl 1 again, but they will keep their heirlooms and gen? If its possible ofc.

yeah, imagine amount of whine from ppl who had 200 xp to go before next gen.... XD
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on April 30, 2011, 01:27:57 am
Just change crpg to how it was a half year ago... :rolleyes:

THIS! :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cris on April 30, 2011, 01:33:36 am
I rather not have a data base wipe...

People should just shut up and keep on playing without unnecerary whinne (there will always be some whinning :P )...I played HA when it was the best prof, play it know that it sucks...people should play the prof they want to play, not the one that gives them an advantage...

Honestly, I think making everyone start from 0 over and over again will only push people away from the game...

On top of this, after playing a few hours today, it seems that the game is really well balanced...I've seen shield, polearm (no shield), 2h and ranged users do well in the server...with the new 2 slot for some items, am not finding anyone with a set up similar to what the 2h to fight infantery, pike for horses and crossbow to kill ranged combo did...everyone has weak point and a strong point. This is a really good job.

If anything, heirloom reset would be better than total reset whinning wise...but I rathe have no heirloom reset, as I think people should heirloom the items they enjoy playing with, and not which ever is "overpowered" thanks to a patch/bug...

so id leave the game as it is, and ignore the whinners.

Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Korgoth on April 30, 2011, 01:36:51 am
Just change crpg to how it was a half year ago... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: kinngrimm on April 30, 2011, 01:37:45 am
...
So, using the principle of "don't hate the players, hate the game", it's up to me to propose a solution to this problem.
...
Opinions?
as true the statement is as true would be the following

Do this and you loose a lot of longtime players, the grinders like me and those who have worked over a year in their spare time to get to gen 3.


Options:
1. As been told before, make release notes where EVERYTHING what is changed is in there and even better show a detailed information site before even you are going to change something. In that way nobody gets surprised and pissed and you include the community into the development process.
2. As a developer myself i needed to get a thick skin to outsite voices, if i am standing behind an idear i push it, if not i get overruled.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on April 30, 2011, 01:59:33 am
Just change crpg to how it was a half year ago... :rolleyes:

you really want my OP morningstar blockcrusher back? if yes, you're one of the really few.  :shock:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on April 30, 2011, 02:00:34 am

That makes me a sad panda.

Didnt know u were into pandas as well?

U can be my friend, ill be serious panda u can be sad panda :D
YH and if ur thinking about a Database wipe do i will ur drunk, then ppl cant blame u for wiping the database :)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Patricia on April 30, 2011, 02:13:54 am
I'm fine with a full wipe, that'd actually be great.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tzar on April 30, 2011, 02:24:43 am
This video right here describes this thread perfectly lmao  :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crdao-yNAIA
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Vibe on April 30, 2011, 02:27:13 am
+1 for DB wipe
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Patricia on April 30, 2011, 02:31:28 am
The big whiners for the patch (most vocal) don't represent the larger community.  These whiners (and far from all of them) seem to be the people approving this idea of a full database wipe (which you promised never to do again).  DOn't give in to them.  I actually like the changes, obviosuly some few bug tweaks needed, but a full database wipe at this point would just end up being obnoxious.

Lol, NO SHIT KESH that you don't want a database wipe, but it's for your health.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: justme on April 30, 2011, 02:45:04 am
im not whining about weapon balance and animations, im complaining about rage leecher pool, there will be manhunters, that will only collecting multiplier bonus from starting leech pool on other people
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: DrKronic on April 30, 2011, 02:47:28 am
let me keep my character names at least so(like reset everyone to level 1 if u feel like it for the LOLs) fucktards don't steal it as I don't have time to play let alone level to 30 again atm(hell at gen 16 I've been level 30 2 months now I think, just too busy IRL)

for the game no, but for the LOLs +1337 I completely approve, especially if you blame it on me hacking the DB, do it
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Adhonis on April 30, 2011, 03:11:55 am
I can accept that you fucked up my fantastic roleplay 2h/thrower dadao beast, I can get that you want me to go half nude against a horde of boost unfriendly archers, but if you reduce my spec to shit you have to give me a decent retirement or as me a lot of people will stop playing.

Want me to be a 2h with only one weapon against 1h/shielders, archers , polearmers guys? Ok, but give me something to make me keep playing
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kafein on April 30, 2011, 03:19:10 am
ALSO FUCKING BUFF AGI
ITS POINTLESS


Lol ? Aren't people allready flying because they swing too fast ?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Banok on April 30, 2011, 03:36:25 am
sounds good too me!

although a hierloom respec would do the trick too.

hierlooming an item in crpg is like gambling all your money on a horse, which a donkey gets to rape.

you invest/bet all your time getting as you say and advantage. then your advantage is taken away, while other peoples advantages are just as advantagous as before.

so PLEASE WIPE / RESPEC
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 30, 2011, 03:39:00 am
although a hierloom respec would do the trick too.

Best idea tbh it solves alot of problems but makes none at the same time.

The people who have played this game and put the effort into retiring get there heirlooms again into something they can use and the people who havnt just get to not listen to all the whining.

win win situation.


Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Banok on April 30, 2011, 04:07:35 am
For all that didn't realise it, the first post was sarcasm.


oh snap! I knew you didn't have the BALLS to reset, just like last time you threatend. :D

From all the things cRPG is and can be, most of the people just care about if the item they happen to use lost one or two damage points.

That makes me a sad panda.

That post did actually make me feel bad tho, its true hierlooms are not what the game is about. I dont mind that my hierlooms are now nerfed or useless (barmace lost more than "one or two points"!). It just peeves me other peoples are still uber-powerful (83 piercing xbow which shoots faster!?). So yeah I'm pretty disapointed yet again that you are not serious about the wipe. :(

edit: ok sniper hierloom was nerfed ;)

Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: arowaine on April 30, 2011, 04:55:18 am
it would be a good idea maybe reset the heirloom but do not... PLS do not reset all the data base like everyone start at 0. veteran with thousand hours of play kinda unfair for them i know you want to make it more fair for new player and agree with this point but maybe you should just change the way of retire to remove abusing heirloom factory!!!! for exemple i came with the idea gen 1 to 10 you can retire at level 30 gen 11 to 20 level 31 gen 21 to 30 you need to be 32 to retire etc etc or otherwise do like the old version and put a  7 day before retire so you can restric heirloom factory and make it more fair for new player! im just saying it can be a good way for the retirement! without wipping everything out for the database! and complently wiping out the game! well as my self i do have 1350 hours of crpg play. i would be mad if its happen but its all your you are the one that take decision...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: EliteDragon on April 30, 2011, 09:02:23 am
Though you created the idea in sarcasm, I honestly think this would be a great idea.
I feel this is the reason that so many other games do it as well, so that everybody starts on the same level again.
W/e the new advantages/disadvantages are, players will have to find them again and by the time of the next patch, the OP'ed things would not have had too much of an effect on the community. Though, of course, heirloomed items would have to be respec'ed otherwise those who grinded would rage and that wouldn't be nice at all.

All in all, I feel you put the community first in every patch that you make (though at times, it could be the "wrong" community) and you deserve a nice pat on the back for your efforts.
I, as I bet the rest of the cRPG community as well, support your decisions and will continue to support you till the ends of time.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: FICO on April 30, 2011, 09:48:33 am
response to whiners: MAKE YOURSELF YOUR OWN MOD THE WAY YOU LIKE IT!!!
well, chadz did it.
if chadz can do it, you can too!
noooo?
THEN STFU YOU LAZY FART!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Lanic0r on April 30, 2011, 10:50:59 am
Standard. When the weapons ain't op anymore, people want to grab the next one. Never fails.
WRONG!
I choose weapons you need skill for.
And to "go for next OP weapon" is for COWARDS. Thats why most cowards use 2h (2h Swords :) ) and they even are supported by the donkey crew last 3 patches.
Give us your calculation, a matrix or whatever you use.
The obnoxious thing is a OP weapon, and if you dont have a calculation system they always will be a OP weapon.
Disclose the Damage System you use to let us find unbalanced properties!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Beauchamp on April 30, 2011, 10:53:13 am
response to whiners: MAKE YOURSELF YOUR OWN MOD THE WAY YOU LIKE IT!!!
well, chadz did it.
if chadz can do it, you can too!
noooo?
THEN STFU YOU LAZY FART!

well there still should be some balance. i don't believe chadz is making his mod only for his own pleasure but also for the players in the end. on the other hand some people are going completely mental when their cookie is taken of.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: BlackMilk on April 30, 2011, 10:55:20 am
WRONG!
I choose weapons you need skill for.
And to "go to for next OP weapon" is for COWARDS. Thats why most cowards use 2h and they even are supported by the donkey crew last 3 patches.
Nah,most cowards use a Huscarl Shield with a Side Sword and a Long Hafted Spiked Mace (no skill needed at all, get out of the enemies range and spam).
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cyclopsided on April 30, 2011, 11:56:00 am
The game is really nice now balance wise, tbh.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Adhonis on April 30, 2011, 12:04:34 pm
 Changing retirement to a simple respec will make this game a normal one instead of crpg mode.

Make retirement usefull, high lvl players will heirloom their items ( and more since some are lost or they have to change spec) and the cicle of life will start again.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: yakri on April 30, 2011, 02:04:21 pm
Most people dont "whine" because of a minor advantage they lost. They whine because all their "work" to get a masterwork something was a waste of time.

I hate patches because they always turn out as a new grind marathon getting started.

Deleting the database would mean even more grind.

Why not the other way around, no grind at all, every char starts with all the attribute and skill points a char has at level 31 and all you have to do is to spend the points the way you want?

And upgrade items not for grinders but for donators.

Oh god no.

That is effectively selling better in game items for real world money (unless 'donations' is strange mod-specific slang for something. . . .), fuck that.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Lt_Anders on April 30, 2011, 04:57:28 pm
To decrease the amount of whine threads, you should do more effective:
PATCH RELEASING

Lets take this patch for example. Instead of Releasing everything at once, release it in stages.

Something like this:
First part of (this) patch: Release the New items, website, new game modes, and animations. Nothing else changes. Give that 3-4 days of letting people play around with their new items to find things they like, bugs with animations, and problems with website. Put fixes into Step 2
Step 2: Release the the Item slot changes and the no sheath limits. DO NOT CHANGE STATS OF ITEMS YET. Let everyone learn how this works, give 5-7 days for testing of these features. Put fixes into Step 3.
Step 3:(Whine time) Release the Item nerfs, price increases, etc. With this release, the final part of the test is done. You will get the whine, the hate, and the praise (most of it, anyway) in this step.

By doing it like this, the patch is released longer, but the damage is gradually absorbed and people can see where there builds are headed over time rather than just "OMG GTX, QQ".
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Camaris on April 30, 2011, 04:59:53 pm
To decrease the amount of whine threads, you should do more effective:
PATCH RELEASING

Lets take this patch for example. Instead of Releasing everything at once, release it in stages.

Something like this:
First part of (this) patch: Release the New items, website, new game modes, and animations. Nothing else changes. Give that 3-4 days of letting people play around with their new items to find things they like, bugs with animations, and problems with website. Put fixes into Step 2
Step 2: Release the the Item slot changes and the no sheath limits. DO NOT CHANGE STATS OF ITEMS YET. Let everyone learn how this works, give 5-7 days for testing of these features. Put fixes into Step 3.
Step 3:(Whine time) Release the Item nerfs, price increases, etc. With this release, the final part of the test is done. You will get the whine, the hate, and the praise (most of it, anyway) in this step.

By doing it like this, the patch is released longer, but the damage is gradually absorbed and people can see where there builds are headed over time rather than just "OMG GTX, QQ".

I guess if chadz & co had an integrated patch system like mmos or other games they would do it in smaller steps and more often.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VicTheBear on April 30, 2011, 05:24:53 pm
Instead of wiping entirely, could we at least keep our strat hero or something?
I've had the same gen-1 character since I started playing crpg back in Jun/Jul/Aug-ish of last year.
I don't even care that there are gen 20 guys out there who can one-shot me with a torch.
I've always had the same build and equipment; I'm emotionally attached  :cry:

Come on chadz, put the mouse down and step away from the keyboard.
Let the whiners whine, but don't wipe my character because of it.
*tear*

In all seriousness though, could you put up a poll about this? Just to see some numbers.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Nasturtium on April 30, 2011, 06:38:33 pm
chadz is not going to wipe the chars, everyone calm down, this thread should be locked, it is officially silly.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Keshian on April 30, 2011, 08:05:06 pm
The game is really nice now balance wise, tbh.

+1 I'd agree.  I think thats why there is so much rage, people using OP weapons find that there favorite tactics no longer make them top the charts.  (the only ones that really needed nerfing though that didnt get it was military pick/warhammer huscarl users.  Those weapons should be like 3 speed slower due to their much higher relative damage.

Vic, he already said the wipe was a joke.  Also, the heirlooming of equipment was seriously nerfed in its benefit for all weapons (much smaller chnages) and the xp was capped at 1450 at x1.  So it really doesn't make much difference what gen you are.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: VVarlord on April 30, 2011, 08:34:06 pm
though that didnt get it was military pick huscarl users.

God i love it when you talk dirty kesh
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: _Savein_ on April 30, 2011, 11:24:42 pm
Wait. So what your saying is when you wipe it, We loose all our gold, And stats. Not coool

But im not sure what your getting at, Someone want to explain?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Barterboy on May 01, 2011, 05:35:15 am
Most people dont "whine" because of a minor advantage they lost. They whine because all their "work" to get a masterwork something was a waste of time.

I hate patches because they always turn out as a new grind marathon getting started.

Deleting the database would mean even more grind.

Why not the other way around, no grind at all, every char starts with all the attribute and skill points a char has at level 31 and all you have to do is to spend the points the way you want?

And upgrade items not for grinders but for donators.

I support this man's suggestion.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gorath on May 01, 2011, 05:40:22 am
Yeah... Sure, I'll support heirlooms for donators.  My checks are redonkulous and I'd be willing to toss down cold cash so I don't ever have to worry about the grind for retirement again.  And it keeps the good stuff out of the hands of no-lifers who need to get a damn job or something. 
 :twisted:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: kura on May 04, 2011, 01:53:19 pm
Reset stats and skills.
Site must show info about weight and slot count.
Do something with invisible shields from head to legs.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Waylit on May 04, 2011, 07:43:22 pm
chadz,

I made a thread asking for a character reset for all people because of the major changes that your Slot system has made to the game. 

Do you know why I whine? Because I have a life outside CRPG.  Because I don't want to retire a character before 31, get nothing for it, and have to spend all the time leveling them back up.  Because it will simply take me weeks to get to retirement at 31, while playing with a broken character build.

I don't want my advantage, I just want to have characters that are not built for a different game.  I agree with the changes you made, I just did not build my character, months ago, with those changes in mind.  I'm not quite sure why you wouldn't reset characters.  Is it a lot of tedious code work?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Tiberias on May 04, 2011, 07:56:45 pm
I think a heirloomed reset would end this discussion  :mrgreen: :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Darkwulf on May 04, 2011, 08:23:25 pm
People whine because they wasted time retiring and heirlooming items that now they no longer use anymore.  A heirloom reset would fix most whining.

I am just not going to retire anymore.  No point when the weapons get changed so often.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Waylit on May 05, 2011, 12:40:01 am
I don't have a single heirloomed item, just a bunch of Gen1 builds at lvl 30 that I play when I feel like going medieval on somebody.  But regardless, I think that an heirloom reset is the Right Thing To Do.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: joshko on May 05, 2011, 01:40:34 am
I agree with it.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: MrShovelFace on May 05, 2011, 02:30:08 am
I have thought a long time about what caused this amount of whine. The answer is actually quite easy:

People are not looking for balance, they are looking for advantage. If an advantage is taken from them, no matter if justified or not, they whine. Pretty understandable, actually.

So, using the principle of "don't hate the players, hate the game", it's up to me to propose a solution to this problem. The only fair way (and most efficient one, too!) is to wipe the database every time new weapon stats are released. This will ensure that no one is at a disadvantage, because everyone can find the new "OP" weapon, like everyone else.

Opinions?

Return to the olden days when knight status wasnt aquired in one day and caring about exp is like watching a plant grow. The days when you could look at someone in full armor and say, WTF HOW DID HE GET ALL THAT MONEY
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bobthehero on May 05, 2011, 03:53:39 am
No shovel, because then we will be back to the y u so tease resets and the retarded peasants war every month or so.

No, never again  :cry:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: kura on May 05, 2011, 08:38:45 am
For peasant war lovers better to make separate mode "kick ass serf"  :)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Aseldo on May 05, 2011, 08:46:49 am
I'm level 30 and about to be 31, what would happen if they reset heirlooms O_o
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: dado on May 05, 2011, 09:58:57 am
can u make a poll ? coz i want to vote for WIPE !  :)   i hope that strategus will be soon (Christmas 2011), coz with him all this will look differently :)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Blondin on May 05, 2011, 02:27:12 pm
Exactly Dado, if you think of Strategus you see that's all the change and nerf are insignificant. I really think that cRPG is just a tool to achive Strat.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: kinngrimm on May 05, 2011, 03:05:53 pm
Exactly Dado, if you think of Strategus you see that's all the change and nerf are insignificant. I really think that cRPG is just a tool to achive Strat.
maybe, but do you really think that there will still be those massive xp/gold gain for the main char after strategus will be released again? And there will also be those players who just play crpg.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Blondin on May 05, 2011, 03:38:15 pm
I don't know how will be Strat, but last released allow you to win a bunch of xp (once i receive more than 1million xp in a single battle), gold is different, but there is no upkeep for mercs i guess.

In fact once you achieve your "perfect build" you don't need any more to grind in Strat, and chadz said that there will be new skills like crafting, trading, etc, it will give a new dimension to the game.
I only hope that there will be feature for lone player otherwise i will join a clan, cos last Strat was really interesting only if you are part of a clan.

I guess cRPG is a lab for Strat and once it will be released i don't think that devs will improve crpg (only to improve Strat) so you're right if some ppl don't want to play Strat then they got to deal with the change. But seriously, Strat is the ultimate goal, a real MP Warband, like singleplayer campain, i guess almost everybody will be interested.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Riddaren on May 05, 2011, 05:03:45 pm
I'm not sure what this reset is about.

Either way resetting is bad if people have something to lose. It's not fair to take away all of the things somone have earned by playing (and supporting) the mod for a long time.
Who would not feel bad if they got their level changed from 35 to 1 and lost all of their 9 heirloomed items? These players have sacrificied their own life to cRPG. I think they deserve some respect.

But if you make a reset make it permanent. No more retiring. No more heirloomed items. Set level cap to 30.
THAT would definately end alot of whining and it would be very fair as "grinders" won't have any advantage.
After that you can reset how much you want as people won't lose anything (given the level is capped to 30).

The worst option is to reset the characters every three months while still letting people be able to heirloom items.
I mean, what's the point of having an option to progress if it will only benefit you for a limited time?
It will cause nothing but frustration and misery and people will eventually quit playing cRPG.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bjarky on May 05, 2011, 06:37:42 pm
hmmm.... i have been in 2 total resets and don't remember people getting overly frustrated about it, most people just enjoy the startover where everyone is an peasant = peasant wars ^^
it's just to fun to go at it all peasant style with stones, clubs, forks, sickle's and trying to beat others in buying better gear.

maybe there where some people angry about it, but i just don't remember any big angry posts, could be i just blocked this out of my brain though  :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Keshian on May 05, 2011, 07:16:46 pm
Both those resets were very early in the mod where it was moving from being very difficult to get to level 30 to being easier and easier each time.  (Pre-january even got over level 40), what you would be talking about is in the reverse direction where people become more and more limited like in an early stage mod and losing all their progress and character development so yes it would be annoying and very frustrating for many people.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gondemar on May 05, 2011, 10:03:49 pm
I don't like to whine.
I play for fun, not to leech, not to grind pr anything.
But I have gone through two resets, and as a "not gen 1 but low gen" player, it's quite frustrating to see the few advantages I managed to get.
Got to "scary great long bardiche" and a "thick churburg" in first version, gen 4 character. Got back to "heavy great long bardiche", so one heirloom with the patch. No problem. I played for fun after all. I created a few characters (A 2 hander, a rider, a thrower, an archer, and I kept my first character as polearm infantry). Got to retire that character one more time (powerful glb), and my two hander two times (balanced no dachi), which doesn't seems to hardcore in a few months.
But this is becoming a bit discouraging, don't you think ?

I was thinking, maybe give one heirloom every X generation, with at least 1 for gen 2+ characters ? Maybe only one ?
Or make the first (and second maybe) heirlooms easier to get (give you a little time to try the character and the weapon you'll wan't to use or armor you'll want to wear mostly) ?
Maybe give the possibility to heirloom one thing anytime, even for gen 1. You'll have YOUR weapon, armor, or something like that. One special little thing your character has.

Just to say, I understand what you're trying to do, but there might be a few better ways to do that :
- logarithmic XP bonus for retirement ? (10% when you're gen 2, 9 at gen 3, and 1% after gen 10 -for example, can be less)
- number of heirlooms cap ?
- one free heirloom for everyone ?
- reducing the heirlooms bonus was a good thing. I'd do that a little more, like the last, or second heirloom on armors gives you only a +1 armor (+5 total instead of +6), little things like that.

Be sure, I won't stop to play cRPG, and the last patch is great. But for casual (well, or semi casual) gamers who just played a little, for a long time, removing ALL heirlooms, when you'll have to plays for monthes again to get them back... It's a bit harsh...

Edit : just saw you other post. Forget the "whine" part of this post, just the last part with a few ideas. But yeah, there is no more bad points to this patch ^^
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Dravic on May 05, 2011, 10:08:47 pm
Maybe give the possibility to heirloom one thing anytime, even for gen 1. You'll have YOUR weapon, armor, or something like that. One special little thing your character has.

Good idea. 1 heirloom point for every new character from now on, and you can distribute that point when you hit 15 lvl (so you actually know what is going on in mod and can afford your fav weapon).

That would lure more people (especially those who see many heirloomed items everywhere, then realise how long it takes to 31 lvl to heirloom your first thing and want to quit because it IS new players unfriendly mod atm.)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: IceManX on May 05, 2011, 10:53:54 pm
plz dont wipe the database.
Not a good idea. Many people will loose money, invested time and so on.

For me a databas wipe would mean, quit the game. I have no ambition to do everything again and to farm and grind gold and money.

Perhaps it would be good to reset the character Skillpoints and so on. That with a new patch ppl can respec and use their new build, or use their old one.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Waylit on May 05, 2011, 11:05:39 pm
We shouldn't reset, we should be able to reSPEC, like after the last major game-changing patch...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Heroin on May 06, 2011, 07:50:01 am
We shouldn't reset, we should be able to reSPEC, like after the last major game-changing patch...

I do agree with this. It doesn't seem like very much to ask to be able to fix builds that no longer work because of the patch. For instance, level 30 throwers with 75 wpf, where 75 wpf isn't enough for throwing any more.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Kafein on May 07, 2011, 11:39:52 am
But if you make a reset make it permanent. No more retiring. No more heirloomed items. Set level cap to 30.
THAT would definately end alot of whining and it would be very fair as "grinders" won't have any advantage.
After that you can reset how much you want as people won't lose anything (given the level is capped to 30).


That is one of the things that could actually make me quit. Turning cRPG into Native+
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gondemar on May 07, 2011, 05:21:14 pm
I keep on thinking (and now more than before because the code is done already), than giving not "gen-1" but "gen" number of heirlooms might be the one thing that would help new players stay and motivate them.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Leesin on May 07, 2011, 07:59:41 pm
chadz has successfully trolled everyone yet again.

Or maybe he hasn't, but what I think he's trying to get at is, it could be worst, so stop whining, whoever is whining.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: zakker on July 10, 2012, 11:17:05 pm
in my opinion
lvl reset not a big deal
item reset not a big deal
gold reset not a big deal
heirloom reset not a big deal
generation reset oh god it takes me out of the mod and bad mood for a day
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Spleen on July 10, 2012, 11:18:06 pm
wow, what a necro
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Jarlek on July 10, 2012, 11:47:45 pm
Wtf happened to my necro post?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Molly on July 10, 2012, 11:57:40 pm
This is actually the first time I see this thread  :o

Complete wipe please, with all the heirlooms. Just let us keep the generations for a bit more experience  :wink:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Dalfador on July 11, 2012, 12:07:13 am
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Cyber on July 11, 2012, 12:22:06 am
yes please, i would love a reset  :lol:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bobthehero on July 11, 2012, 12:23:50 am
No.

I don't want to re-grind all the shit I have grinded for, don't have time for it, fuck off with that idea.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Rhaelys on July 11, 2012, 01:05:27 am
Wait he means another character wipe?!? What about the people who are level 35, I mean I just got all the looms I want, I plan on leveling past 31,  I'd be fine with a weapon wipe, but you must also refund the loom points lost.

Learn to read dates, Blackzilla.
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 11, 2012, 01:17:40 am
Hey, eh, I noticed I downloaded a patch, but since I didn't see a flood of whine threads I had no idea what it was, still not sure, anyone able to tell me some of the things the patch did?
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: rufio on July 11, 2012, 01:19:53 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Bulzur on July 11, 2012, 01:29:46 am
The sole fact that chadz got only +5 on his Opening Post, when he usually has +45, pretty much sums up the thoughts of the community at that time.
Also... stop necrobumping...
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gurnisson on July 11, 2012, 01:32:59 am
The sole fact that chadz got only +5 on his Opening Post, when he usually has +45, pretty much sums up the thoughts of the community at that time.

Not the fact that +ing and -ing wasn't implemented back then and all the votes were made since the necro :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: cmp on July 11, 2012, 01:33:34 am
The sole fact that chadz got only +5 on his Opening Post, when he usually has +45, pretty much sums up the thoughts of the community at that time.

Especially because there was no rating system at that time. -_-
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Gurnisson on July 11, 2012, 01:35:03 am
Especially because there was no rating system at that time. -_-

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: Digglez on July 11, 2012, 01:43:10 am
great way to basically kill your mod. lose 1/2 the player base then the other half when they login and have noone else to play with and get bored.

I'm sure SOE or EA would hire you as a game designer!
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: HardRice on July 11, 2012, 01:45:33 am
We would lose digglez who couldn't live without his shield, just wipe it already. Please.  :D
Title: Re: Possible solution to future whine
Post by: okiN on July 11, 2012, 01:46:06 am
The slows just keep poking.