cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: pingpong on December 29, 2012, 10:33:02 am
Title: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: pingpong on December 29, 2012, 10:33:02 am
I find it pretty ridiculous that greatswords can do pierce stab damage but polearms like partisan does only cut stab dmg, honestly their blades look pretty similar AKA not very sharp, either alter the type to cut and nerf the stab dmg or remove it completely, this would force people to use the alternative gs style to stab by pressing X, a feature which IMO nobody uses except for giggles, this would also have a healthy effect on game balance and make the game a little bit diverse since kuyakheroes would be forced to choose between either style depending on situation. Also current 2h stab has pretty ridiculous reach, when combined with jump its like ashwood pike level of reach, this is seriously f'ed up.
Just my 3 pounds.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: San on December 29, 2012, 10:43:31 am
Can't think of any other alternative instead of just removing it? I doubt you'd get much support otherwise..
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: pingpong on December 29, 2012, 11:00:14 am
Can't think of any other alternative instead of just removing it? I doubt you'd get much support otherwise..
I mentioned the X mode if u read what i wrote
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Panos on December 29, 2012, 11:06:00 am
Removing stab from 2hander swords is the most retarded thing Ive ever heard, I dislike the current 2h stab animations but that`s not a reason to fuck up a whole class,just give polearm stab to all GS.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Sagar on December 29, 2012, 11:16:10 am
Two handed swords/greatswords stab animation is just fine and natural. Don't see any reason to be nerfed/removed. It is the way that should be used. visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Also please change stab animation for Flamberge so we can have more reach with this beautiful sword. It will be more natural. Flamberg now have just polearm stab animation. visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Shpritza on December 29, 2012, 11:19:08 am
Remove 2h stab from game
(click to show/hide)
NO!!
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 29, 2012, 12:55:24 pm
Two handed swords/greatswords stab animation is just fine and natural. Don't see any reason to be nerfed/removed. It is the way that should be used. visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Call me blind but I somehow don't see how that picture shows someone doing a c-rpg style 2h thrust while holding both his arms fully stretched out in a straight line while holding a fucking greatsword at the hilt... :|
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Shaksie on December 29, 2012, 01:11:34 pm
Er.. what? Is this for real?
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: pepejul on December 29, 2012, 01:13:55 pm
REMOVE PIKE AND LONGSPEAR INSTEAD !!!
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Sagar on December 29, 2012, 02:09:06 pm
Quote
Call me blind but I somehow don't see how that picture shows someone doing a c-rpg style 2h thrust while holding both his arms fully stretched out in a straight line while holding a fucking greatsword at the hilt... :|
It's just a picture. How do you think that actually shod be performed two handed sword stab, than as shown in the cRPG? There lots of books and video clips about sword fighting. That is the way you stab with 2h sword.
Here some sword fights with stabs:
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Adamar on December 29, 2012, 02:52:05 pm
LOL, suspected leshma
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Panos on December 29, 2012, 03:30:17 pm
It's just a picture. How do you think that actually shod be performed two handed sword stab, than as shown in the cRPG? There lots of books and video clips about sword fighting. That is the way you stab with 2h sword.
Here some sword fights with stabs:
What you lack to realize is that lolstab in this game is broken,ghostreach is that,that fucks the 2h class mostly..
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Sagar on December 29, 2012, 04:21:57 pm
Scimitar have "ghostreach", Arabian Cavalry Sword have "ghostreach" - especially on horse, and lots of other weapons. It is not a problem how stab is preformed, it is a problem with game engine/coding.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Angantyr on December 29, 2012, 07:16:48 pm
Pretty sure all instances of 'ghost reach' was ironed out years ago, what you're referring to may just be latency in hit detection or for whatever reason some visual imprecision between models and hit boxes.
@OP, Great swords were specialized stabbers designed to pierce heavily armored opponents. This was their primary battlefield function, a sort of awlpike-sword hybrid (with the cutting edge primarily to cut spears and pikes). If the stabbing animation was changed at least it shouldn't be changed to half-swording only which wouldn't adequately represent the weapon type. Having this long-reaching thrust is also not unrealistic for the weapon class (like abovementioned awlpike with base instead of center grip), the main problem I ever saw with it was the speed, how the animations could be abused, either by dragging stabs, lolfeints (often through the ground) and point blank instastabbing - which to some degree have actually been improved a lot during the course of the last six months or so (a time where few if any of the people who complain about the 'OP lolswords' as far as I can see have played with any themselves, usually they used them back when they were truly overpowered), thanks to the cRPG developers.
Like last time I'll probably get a lot of biased minuses from class lobbyists for reporting this for some reason, but I never do effective facehug distance stabs against medium+ armored enemies with my DGS anymore due to glancing (it may be that some experience it with the shorter bastard or longsword that has way more room to maneuver) but if you disagree then please demonstrate it in a video or in images, to backup your statements, because I have used great swords for many years and I've always been aware of the problems connected with these weapons (major opponent of lolstabbing and the then current great swords in my TW post history) besides the obvious high tier weapon class of 2handed swords, but though still far from perfect (just like polearm stabs which also has its problems), I've only seen these problems decrease as of the many latest changes in mechanics.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Tigero on December 29, 2012, 07:26:07 pm
Seriously stop this BS, it's not about a single weapon's overpowered (yet completely realistic) feature, but about the balance of all. Polearms for example are utterly useless for stabbing at close range, even tho they are the weapons realistically used for keeping the enemy at distance.
Some kind of system needs to be developed for punishing facehugging and constant switching of attack directions and reward abusing realistic weaknesses of the opponent with timing, footjobs and sht.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Tyr_ on December 29, 2012, 08:07:58 pm
Like last time I'll probably get a lot of biased minuses from class lobbyists for reporting this for some reason, but I never do effective facehug distance stabs against medium+ armored enemies with my DGS anymore due to glancing (it may be that some experience it with the shorter bastard or longsword that has way more room to maneuver) but if you disagree then please demonstrate it in a video or in images, to backup your statements, because I have used great swords for many years and I've always been aware of the problems connected with these weapons (major opponent of lolstabbing and the then current great swords in my TW post history) besides the obvious high tier weapon class of 2handed swords, but though still far from perfect (just like polearm stabs which also has its problems), I've only seen these problems decrease as of the many latest changes in mechanics.
I cba making a vid of it, but if you want i can show you how to make this stabs very easily, you are going to make full-dmg hits everytime with a stab, a lordly armet as helmet would make it more diffucult, but still not rly hard.
2h itself isnt OP, the only problem is that the animations arent working properly, my playstile should not work bcause all i do is making this unrealistic stabs, but this is what makes it so strong atm. But dont focus on 2h: pikes and spears can do the same, the only difference is that i use 3 directions to feint before i stab while pikers only have their stab.
The stab on all weapons - even one handers - needs to be fixed, since you can do face to face stabs with every sword/spear, and where i hit with the hilt of my sword and a pike hits with its shaft, it still does full pierce dmg.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Angantyr on December 29, 2012, 09:11:52 pm
Just tested it on the duel server with Saxon (5IF, Rus helmet, 56 body armor), I aimed for the head and upper body and dealt on average 20% hp dam on each hit with 7PS and MW DGS if I 'swung' the stab at facehug range, otherwise it would glance every time. This was done stationary so no speed bonus.
edit: reading your post again, perhaps I misunderstood you Tyr, not saying that you can't swing stabs in at close range only that a normal straight stab attack in close quarters would fail after the latest changes to glancing, thought that was what people argued.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Tyr_ on December 30, 2012, 05:22:59 pm
Yeah, straight stabs arent usable on close range, theyll glance even on guys without headarmor, but you can make stabs face to face which will hit with full damage, it just needs a bit practice
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Artyem on January 02, 2013, 09:30:25 pm
My largest problems with two handers (after playing 2h every gen up until now) is that the stab can basically 1 hit anybody point blank, and you can take huge ass great swords on horseback and use them on foot without any issue. Personally, I think that making most greatswords 3 slotted would help the situation, that way people can just use the equally OP Bastard Sword from horseback or with a crossbow instead of that gigantic +3 DGS.
Aside from that, there's not much to be done unless they go through the process of changing the animations for 2h weapons entirely, as they're pretty much the epitome of broken. Not only does your left to right swing empower you with the ability to swing twice instantly, but it also makes you duck down and become nearly untouchable by ranged.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: BlueKnight on January 03, 2013, 04:12:02 pm
Pretty sure all instances of 'ghost reach' was ironed out years ago, what you're referring to may just be latency in hit detection or for whatever reason some visual imprecision between models and hit boxes.
@OP, Great swords were specialized stabbers designed to pierce heavily armored opponents. This was their primary battlefield function, a sort of awlpike-sword hybrid (with the cutting edge primarily to cut spears and pikes). If the stabbing animation was changed at least it shouldn't be changed to half-swording only which wouldn't adequately represent the weapon type. Having this long-reaching thrust is also not unrealistic for the weapon class (like abovementioned awlpike with base instead of center grip), the main problem I ever saw with it was the speed, how the animations could be abused, either by dragging stabs, lolfeints (often through the ground) and point blank instastabbing - which to some degree have actually been improved a lot during the course of the last six months or so (a time where few if any of the people who complain about the 'OP lolswords' as far as I can see have played with any themselves, usually they used them back when they were truly overpowered), thanks to the cRPG developers.
Like last time I'll probably get a lot of biased minuses from class lobbyists for reporting this for some reason, but I never do effective facehug distance stabs against medium+ armored enemies with my DGS anymore due to glancing (it may be that some experience it with the shorter bastard or longsword that has way more room to maneuver) but if you disagree then please demonstrate it in a video or in images, to backup your statements, because I have used great swords for many years and I've always been aware of the problems connected with these weapons (major opponent of lolstabbing and the then current great swords in my TW post history) besides the obvious high tier weapon class of 2handed swords, but though still far from perfect (just like polearm stabs which also has its problems), I've only seen these problems decrease as of the many latest changes in mechanics.
Post worth reading. +1
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Nordwolf on January 04, 2013, 04:57:13 pm
It's called feinting. One of the core mechanics of melee fight.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on January 04, 2013, 05:53:58 pm
None of the images show armored fights. I lol at your attempts to suggest that the current lolstab animation was used effectivly beyond gentleman duels and peasant rape.
Do agree all thrust animations are busted, some busted in favour of wielder, and others against.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Teeth on January 04, 2013, 05:58:38 pm
Pretty sure all instances of 'ghost reach' was ironed out years ago, what you're referring to may just be latency in hit detection or for whatever reason some visual imprecision between models and hit boxes.
Katana, Miaodao, Barmace and Highland Claymore just to name a few.
Like last time I'll probably get a lot of biased minuses from class lobbyists for reporting this for some reason, but I never do effective facehug distance stabs against medium+ armored enemies with my DGS anymore due to glancing (it may be that some experience it with the shorter bastard or longsword that has way more room to maneuver) but if you disagree then please demonstrate it in a video or in images
There is also a lot of people that are convinced you can't stab people at facehug range with a longspear from their own experience, yet you can. I can do it with a 2h as well, it is very similar.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Angantyr on January 04, 2013, 06:49:12 pm
There is also a lot of people that are convinced you can't stab people at facehug range with a longspear from their own experience, yet you can. I can do it with a 2h as well, it is very similar.
Without swing/lolstabbing? I've seen longspears do a regular straight stab at very close range but never an effective danish or german facehug stab due to the animation (unless against lowly-armored enemies). But haven't really tested it much after going from 6 to 7 PS, not sure how much of a difference it would do anyway.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Teeth on January 04, 2013, 10:36:01 pm
Without swing/lolstabbing? I've seen longspears do a regular straight stab at very close range but never an effective danish or german facehug stab due to the animation (unless against lowly-armored enemies). But haven't really tested it much after going from 6 to 7 PS, not sure how much of a difference it would do anyway.
No of course not without spinning, but why does that matter? Fact is you can do it and fact is that any half decent twohander can do it. Which is a huge advantage of the 2h stab, because besides being very long, it is also able to stab very fast at minimum range.
I agree it often seems like it but I base my assumption on Paul's reply when I once inquired about it, so this is according to him.
Paul gets a stiffy from numbers and code, and still firmly believes that this game is not borked in many ways, because it does not say so in the code. We all know there are a number of messed up things in the game right now without any proper explanation. This game simply is quirky.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: owens on January 05, 2013, 02:21:38 pm
So for me the biggest problem with 2H stab is the unusually long effective damage time of the attack.
What I mean is that the stab is still able to deal damage when being withdrawn, stationary or barely moving. It is very unusual for me to be damaged at all by a weapon that isn't moving. The problem being of course pierce damage from a often pretty heavy weapon.
The simplest solution is to simply replace pierce with cut for most swords. A more difficult more optimum solution could be cutting short the damage dealing time during the animation. making the last part of the animation inert.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Teeth on January 05, 2013, 03:14:04 pm
So for me the biggest problem with 2H stab is the unusually long effective damage time of the attack.
What I mean is that the stab is still able to deal damage when being withdrawn, stationary or barely moving. It is very unusual for me to be damaged at all by a weapon that isn't moving. The problem being of course pierce damage from a often pretty heavy weapon.
The simplest solution is to simply replace pierce with cut for most swords.
This is not a solution to the problem you mentioned. Pierce and weight of the weapon don't really have anything to do with that. Pierce ofcourse affecting whether it glances or not, but it shouldn't even glance when it is already retracting. Weight affects nothing but movement speed and stun, it has nothing to do with damage or glancing.
A more difficult more optimum solution could be cutting short the damage dealing time during the animation. making the last part of the animation inert.
This just needs to happen.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Angantyr on January 05, 2013, 06:31:08 pm
No of course not without spinning, but why does that matter? Fact is you can do it and fact is that any half decent twohander can do it. Which is a huge advantage of the 2h stab, because besides being very long, it is also able to stab very fast at minimum range.
Only because that is what I was referring to in the quotation you used and not lolstabbing. Perhaps you missed what me and Tyr wrote to each other earlier on this page since you objected it was possible to swing it in when I had just written the very same thing.
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: Ubereem on January 05, 2013, 10:20:44 pm
all i know is a 120 reach sword should not be able to outreach a 150 reach polearm
Title: Re: Remove 2h stab from game
Post by: pepejul on January 05, 2013, 10:24:53 pm
except if 2H is poking while pole is swinging... it's physics =)