cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Realism Discussion => Topic started by: Zaar on December 28, 2012, 04:47:46 pm

Title: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Zaar on December 28, 2012, 04:47:46 pm
Perhaps there has been such a discussion before, if so, close this and I'll try to find it.

Before I start, this isn't a nerf call, rather "what do you guys think" call.

I'm wondering regarding ranged and long weapons (like pikes and such). I've seen people getting hit, damaged and even killed (no idea how much armor, hp, etc. and that's not the point here) by (x)bow or a pike from a very close range or should I say point blank range.

Is there any formula that determines the damage of mentioned weapons when the target is really close?

I mean, if I have a bow and shoot at something half a meter away, I don't think I'll do much dmg if any at all comapred to something further away.
Same for long weapons, pikes and such. I mean I have an advantage for fighting from far away...my weakness should be when someone closes in...Imagine carrying a 2,5-3m spear and doing same damage to someone a meter away as when he's standing i.e. 5m away.

Then again, I may be missing something, so I'll gladly listen to anyone's thoughts, good or bad as long as it's explained.
Perhaps it was talked about but cant be implemented. No idea.

Fire away! (just no flames, pls  :mrgreen: )
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: donib on December 28, 2012, 05:22:49 pm
Why do you think a projectile will do more damage at a greater distance?

It will only suffer from air drag and loose its initial speed, which is highest after released from the bow, and reduces in flight.

Unless you would shoot in an arc and the shooter is on an elevated position, if the velocity of the projectile in the descent>initial velocity, which could be possible, but i dont think this is the case in crpg.

Regarding the pikes and spears, it is impossible to stab someone point blank (unless you do some fancy 360 moves or something). But even when you are able to stab, the distance doesnt matter as long the velocity of the stab is constant, more corectly would be if the energy transfer is the same, but yea it does cost more energy to move an object further away, but i think these variables are a bit too much for a game like crpg and it wouldnt really matter that much.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Penitent on December 28, 2012, 05:33:28 pm
Why do you think a projectile will do more damage at a greater distance?


An arrow DOES do more damage at a bit of a distance, rather than point blank.

When an arrow immediately comes off of a bow string, it has a lot of "wobble" to it.  Once it flies 15m or so, at minimum, the flight starts to stabilize.  A stabilized flying arrow will impart more force it its target when it strikes than a wobbly flying arrow.  The distance depends on the bow being used and the material the arrow is made of, but this is the general truth.

It's true that point blank bow shots should do a bit less damage.  The damage should peak somewhere around 15-25m, and then fall off again as air friction slows down the projectile.

Source: I do archering.

I don't know about crossbow bolts.  They are shorter and probably more stiff, so point blank would be very powerful.  Throwing should be strongest at point blank.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Rumblood on December 28, 2012, 05:53:12 pm
When an arrow immediately comes off of a bow string, it has a lot of "wobble" to it.  Once it flies 15m or so, at minimum, the flight starts to stabilize.  A stabilized flying arrow will impart more force it its target when it strikes than a wobbly flying arrow.  The distance depends on the bow being used and the material the arrow is made of, but this is the general truth.

A wobbly arrow would impart the same amount of force on a naked target, and being wobbly, would do more damage as it would create a larger wound. A stabilized arrow would focus the impact on a narrower area of the arrow, giving you more penetration and a smaller wound. So on an unarmored target, that arrow is likely to go through them anyhow, giving the wobbly arrow and larger wound more damage, whereas once it has stabilized it will penetrate armor more easily and depending on the penetration may give more or less damage (depending upon whether you reach a vital organ or not).

Source: My ass.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Penitent on December 28, 2012, 06:21:59 pm
ok ok ok unarmored doesn't matter...they get fucked by ranged any way you look at it.
I think a stabilized arrow would impart more force and penetration, but you're right....it does not create what I now like to call a "wobbly wound" on a naked target.  :P

Either way, I think it would be cool if devs made it so arrows peak damage is 20m out.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: donib on December 28, 2012, 07:49:40 pm
Hmmm how does the wobbling affect it then, the only problem would be a different angle of impact that could be different, the amount of energy the arrow has is the initial energy minus the loss in travel. But even when the arrow strikes it starts wobbling again doesn't it? Because when you push an object it is basicly like a wave motion.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Penitent on December 28, 2012, 08:25:31 pm
Well, by "wobble" i mean the arrow flexes or wiggles for a bit as it flies.  You can look up videos of arrow flight in slow motion to see what I mean.

I'm no physics expert, but I've drawn a picture to communicate my understanding of this.

(click to show/hide)

So basically imagine you have a straight piece of wood, like a long thin dowel rod, and you jab it at someone's chest with it.  Then imagine you flop it around a bit and jab again.  The 2nd jab will likely impart less force because it will be flexed when it strikes.

The arrow shot at point blank will still have energy and straighten itself after it hits, but the straight arrow has the entire shaft driving directly behind the point.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Teeth on December 28, 2012, 09:20:22 pm
In cRPG distance heavily affects damage for ranged and as far as I know closer means higher damage. Which is realistic as a missile gets its propelling energy from the bow string and then starts to lose it due to friction, apart from the aforementioned arrow wobble, can't imagine that having an enormous effect though.

As for longspears stabbing at close range, damage is just determined by speed bonus, which is somewhat low as far as I know due to not hitting at the optimum range for the weapon.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Zaar on December 29, 2012, 12:05:50 am
In cRPG distance heavily affects damage for ranged and as far as I know closer means higher damage. Which is realistic as a missile gets its propelling energy from the bow string and then starts to lose it due to friction, apart from the aforementioned arrow wobble, can't imagine that having an enormous effect though

I can understand it losing dmg over longer distance...but I always thought of the dmg as:

none...low...lower...normal..higher....HIGH...lower...low....

Hey, I'm high, cant explain better atm  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Rumblood on December 29, 2012, 06:23:59 pm
I can understand it losing dmg over longer distance...but I always thought of the dmg as:

none...low...lower...normal..higher....HIGH...lower...low....

Hey, I'm high, cant explain better atm  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

You play too many video games and not enough time studying the world you actually live in.  :P

Ever see anyone say:

"Shoot him!"
"I can't! He's too close and it does no damage at that range!"
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: donib on December 29, 2012, 08:49:52 pm
Incoming long post

Well, by "wobble" i mean the arrow flexes or wiggles for a bit as it flies.  You can look up videos of arrow flight in slow motion to see what I mean.

I'm no physics expert, but I've drawn a picture to communicate my understanding of this.

(click to show/hide)

So basically imagine you have a straight piece of wood, like a long thin dowel rod, and you jab it at someone's chest with it.  Then imagine you flop it around a bit and jab again.  The 2nd jab will likely impart less force because it will be flexed when it strikes.

The arrow shot at point blank will still have energy and straighten itself after it hits, but the straight arrow has the entire shaft driving directly behind the point.

This is very interesting actually.

I have watched this video to try understand that wobbling a bit better

]visitors can't see pics , please register or login

The thing is, does the upper arrow have more energy than the lower one? No, it has not. Because at the moment the arrow is released the energy would be 1/2* mass* (initial) velocity. However when it travels, energy is indeed lost, mainly due to air friction, also gravity affects it, and i think if the arrow starts rotating it loses energy to it but i am not sure.

Your theory is that an arrow from up close, if it is in a state as you have described, a wobbly state where the arrow is flexed would deliver less damage than a stabilized arrow on a greater range, you have used this as an evidence.

So basically imagine you have a straight piece of wood, like a long thin dowel rod, and you jab it at someone's chest with it.  Then imagine you flop it around a bit and jab again.  The 2nd jab will likely impart less force because it will be flexed when it strikes.
Yea true you would expect that the rod would resist like some sort of spring and bend even more because it is already bent, but i dont think you can make that comparison because now you have made that a property of the rod, while the arrow is actually straight.

The reason why it wobbles is following:
Imagine you are in a vacuum space, you are standing on location A and on location B there is a button. The distance betweeen the two is a lightyear, so it would take a lightbeam to travel 1 year in order to reach, and as we know, there is no such thing as faster-than-light (only relative is possible but not faster than lightspeed in vacuum). Now imagine you have a lightyear long rod between you and the button, what would happen if you press it and at the same time you would emit light towards that direction, does this mean the rod pushed the button before the light arrives at the same spot, and therefor you transmitted information faster than light?

Nope, what actually happens, is that the rod doesnt move that fast, not directly. What you do is, you push the front row of particles in the rod, and they push the next one and so on. This moves at the speed of sound in the objects material.

This is basicly what happens:
(click to show/hide)

So lets say the arrow has stabilized and hits the target, it doesnt hit it as a completely stiff object, it happens again as above, a wave motion, so it should be wobbly at impact too as it was at launch. This happens because of the impact forces on the arrow.

Note i am not trying to argue or say you are wrong, i just like talking about such stuff, i find it fascinating for some reason.

It would be actually really cool if you would do an experiment with a arrow from close range and longer range and see which one has deeper impact, note that you must maintain the same variables at all time, especially the draw force.

And i am not a physics expert myself but it is some basic knowledge i know about energy and motion laws
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: _Sebastian_ on December 30, 2012, 02:17:32 am
When an arrow immediately comes off of a bow string, it has a lot of "wobble" to it.  Once it flies 15m or so, at minimum, the flight starts to stabilize.  A stabilized flying arrow will impart more force it its target when it strikes than a wobbly flying arrow.  The distance depends on the bow being used and the material the arrow is made of, but this is the general truth.

It's true that point blank bow shots should do a bit less damage.  The damage should peak somewhere around 15-25m, and then fall off again as air friction slows down the projectile.

Source: I do archering.

Woot :shock:
First of all air friction allways effects the arrow and not only after 20m of flight.
At the moment you lose the bowstring and the arrow starts to move, then air friction effects the arrow.

A moving object allways has it's most kinetic energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy) at the highest speed.
This "wobble" (called arrow paradoxon) of the arrow wont effect the energy which comes from the velocity.
So the arrow has it's most energy(highest velocity) directly after leaving the string, because only the string accelerates the arrow.

But the wobble of the arrow increases the friction(drag coefficient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient#More_CdA_examples)) due the bigger area of the arrow, which will be affected by the air.

(click to show/hide)
Yes due the "wobble" engery is lost, but it wont come back when the arrow is stabilized.
What the heck are you smoking?  :P
Even the penetration with the lost energy in the flex of the arrow shaft at close range is higher, than the penetration of an allmost stabilized arrow at a distance of 25 meters.

If you do archery or not has nothing to do with your knowledge about physics.
I also do archery... I even make bows, arrows, quivers etc. by myself, but because of this you wont get any knowledge about physics.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Little Lord Lollipop on December 31, 2012, 06:50:20 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Paul on December 31, 2012, 10:45:28 am
Apart from the fact that all of your physics teachers deserve a beating, I think one problem for a point blank arrow against metal armor could appear when it hits at the peak of the oscillation. I have no idea if that is actually the case but maybe then this arrow has a higher chance to break on impact(against plate) compared to an arrow that connects at zero crossing of that transversal swinging or after it faded.

However an arrow loses velocity rather rapidly due air friction so the rule of thumb "the closer the better" most likely applies.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Penitent on December 31, 2012, 03:27:53 pm
Well, I think this is an interesting topic for discussion as well.

I think some of you are simplifying the physics too much.  It's not simply a factor of velocity and the arrow losing energy due to air friction.  That's how a bullet or throwing a ball work, but there is more going on here.  There are internal physics of the arrow itself that contribute here.  I'm saying that the internal physics of the arrow (its "wobble" or vibrations at close or far range) will compensate for the decrease in speed due to air friction at about 20m and allow it to penetrate deeper.

I could be wrong though!  I'm going to the range next Sat, and if I'm able to I will do some tests, shooting the same target with the same arrows and draw weight at different distances.  It won't be a lab test...but now I'm curious enough to try it out. :)

I just realized I don't have any wooden arrows...only aluminum which doesn't flex too much.  I'll still try it out though.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Tigero on January 02, 2013, 02:40:22 pm
Then you will notice that the arrow penetrate deepest at arrow's length from the string especially if you got one of those my old friendgy compound bows with central brush-arrowrest. And even with flexing arrows the flex doesn't affect penetration as much as the energy of the arrow, which in war use was mostly in the tip anyway and even if the shaft would crash with the walls of the entrance hole it's not going to have much effect to the final damage, which gets me to my idea of balancing the damage arrows do between diffrent armors.

Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Zaar on January 03, 2013, 09:02:25 am
You play too many video games and not enough time studying the world you actually live in.  :P

Ever see anyone say:

"Shoot him!"
"I can't! He's too close and it does no damage at that range!"

 :mrgreen:

I understand what you mean and I do agree, at least to certain extent.
Pretty sure bow (arrow) does dmg at point blank (few cm is all that is needed for the tip to pierce something) but I wouldn't say it would do as much dmg as at few meters or more.

THen again, I'm no expert.

Maybe Garison will manage (or has already?) test stuff out at the range.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Penitent on January 04, 2013, 12:48:43 am
I'll try to test in a couple days...I'm not sure if the guy that owns the archery shop will want me making point-blank shots in his range tho.  :?

I'll do my best!
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 04, 2013, 10:33:36 pm
Well, by "wobble" i mean the arrow flexes or wiggles for a bit as it flies.  You can look up videos of arrow flight in slow motion to see what I mean.

I'm no physics expert, but I've drawn a picture to communicate my understanding of this.

(click to show/hide)

So basically imagine you have a straight piece of wood, like a long thin dowel rod, and you jab it at someone's chest with it.  Then imagine you flop it around a bit and jab again.  The 2nd jab will likely impart less force because it will be flexed when it strikes.

The arrow shot at point blank will still have energy and straighten itself after it hits, but the straight arrow has the entire shaft driving directly behind the point.
one of the most important laws in physics and chemistry: energy can not be created, neither can it be destructed.
You say is:
energy arrow =  energy impact + energy for flex
==> this means, the bigger the flex the lower the impact energy.

BUT the energy for the flex will also be conducted into the target as you can see the arrow as a spring that gets a higher state of energy because of the flex.

this is what i think that happens
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Zaar on January 05, 2013, 10:22:46 am
I'll try to test in a couple days...I'm not sure if the guy that owns the archery shop will want me making point-blank shots in his range tho.  :?

I'll do my best!

In any case, thanks for trying!
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 05, 2013, 09:53:44 pm
This is all really cool and I love reading nerdy discussions like this, but I doubt it can be ported into the M&B engine in any meaningful way.

edit: I mean just consider how projectiles (throwing more than arrows/bolts, but all to some degree) get really wonky at point blank. They can appear to miss but then hit the target, or pass straight through a horse that takes up your whole screen.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: donib on January 05, 2013, 10:29:51 pm
Irl you might hit with the haft of a throwing axe
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Penitent on January 07, 2013, 07:12:35 pm
Ok, I have conducted 2 amateur experiments.  I remain unbiased and did my best to control what variables I could. 

First, I went to an indoor archery range.  It was very busy on Saturday morning, and I was not able to take my time and set things up the way I wanted. Still, I did what I could.  I was shooting a 45# recurve bow using aluminum arrow shafts with field tips. The target was a big foam block that seemed to me might have a somewhat uniform density.  I shot 2 arrows at 4 yards, 2 at 8 yards, and 2 at 20 yards.  The arrows I shot were NOT uniform in terms of spine stiffness.  I also was not able to take my time an measure how far each one penetrated.  It was obvious the 4 yard arrows did have the most energy.  I've never shot a target that close. It made a loud THWAP when hitting the target.  The 8 yard arrows were not as loud but they "seemed" to go in to the target just a bit more. The 20 yard arrow obviously did not penetrate as deeply.  I was interested in the 4-8 yard difference so I decided to do a more controlled experiment at home.

I made a target from a 9x12 box and PACKED it with papers so it was uniform density.  It was like a paper brick lol.  Kind of like a really thick phone book.  I got 3 arrows that were identical in stiffness and weight.  I shot 3 arrows at 1 yard and 3 at 8 yards.  The 1-yard arrows all penetrated exactly 13/16ths of an inch.  Of the 8-yard arrows, two arrows penetrated exactly 1 inch, and one was 1+1/16th inch.

The differences were small, but in this 2nd test they were consistent.  The arrows penetrated more at 8 yards than at 1 yard. I also think I know why.  Something I observed at the very close shots (1 & 4 yards) was that the arrow stuck out of the targets at and angle once they were shot.  I attribute this to the previously discussed "wobble".  I've modified my mspaint pic to illustrate this.  While in both cases all the energy of the arrow is transferred to the target, I think the energy is transferred at slightly different angles.  This may so explain Why the very close shots produced more noise.  The part in the box shows what I mean.

Pic
(click to show/hide)

In conclusion, I think there is a point somewhere along the arrow's flight where it can transfer maximum energy to the target in a "stabalized" state which allows it to penetrate the best.  I don't think this point is "point blank" but somewhere between 4 and 15 yards, depending on the bow and arrows used.

tidbit: did you know the term "point blank" (pointe blanc) come to us from ye olde time archery lingo? :)

Some other thoughts:
1. A medieval war bow could have a draw weight from 80-120 lbs...way more than my 45# bow. This may mke a difference.  Then again it may make these results more pronounced.  The field tips I used are designed to just penetrate a target and then slow down so they don't go too far in.

2. I don't hunt, but I've heard bow hunters say that an arrow shot from a 50# or 60# bow, with a broadhead attached, routinely go STRAIGHT THROUGH deer and other large game animals if it doesn't hit a large bone like a shoulder blade.  In this light I think only armored targets would benefit from being further away/closer to an archer in terms of negating damage (in game or irl).

3. Lastly I encourage people to try this out or suggest other ways to test.  My experiment was really small, but at least it gives something to think about!

edit:
pics for proof. :)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Rumblood on January 07, 2013, 08:08:10 pm
I would say statistically that is a very small number for a proper trial, especially as the papers weren't machine packed. My other question would be whether you unconsciously drew further back when loosing at 8 yards as opposed to 1 yard. Lastly, it appears the target is on the ground and the angle would naturally be steeper up close than from further away and wonder if that didn't have an effect on the penetration as well.

But certainly a valiant effort at testing the theory! +1
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Penitent on January 07, 2013, 08:32:10 pm
I would say statistically that is a very small number for a proper trial, especially as the papers weren't machine packed. My other question would be whether you unconsciously drew further back when loosing at 8 yards as opposed to 1 yard. Lastly, it appears the target is on the ground and the angle would naturally be steeper up close than from further away and wonder if that didn't have an effect on the penetration as well.

But certainly a valiant effort at testing the theory! +1

Valid points!

Yes, its a very humble trial.  I figured the papers were packed ok because the arrows penetrated at nearly the same depth each time.  Also, my "anchor point" is the same when drawing back the bow, so I should have drew it consistently each time (though I'm not expert archer by a LONG shot). 

Like you, I was worried about the angle of the target as well.  When I shot at 1-yard I tilted the box back a little (see pic) to help compensate for this...and stood it straight up for the 8-yard shots.  Not perfect...and indeed the angles were probably slightly different.  Still it should have helped.

Good points though!
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Kaiser Augustus on May 03, 2013, 07:34:16 pm
+1 May the devs be ever in your favor.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Mammonist on June 26, 2013, 08:20:52 pm
As for the pikes and long spears: If you rub the shaft really fast across someones face (:lol:) a nasty friction burn will be caused, so that must be where the point blank damage comes from.  :D

(sorry for reviving dead thread)

Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Nightmare798 on July 28, 2013, 03:37:11 pm
Why do you think a projectile will do more damage at a greater distance?

It will only suffer from air drag and loose its initial speed, which is highest after released from the bow, and reduces in flight.

Unless you would shoot in an arc and the shooter is on an elevated position, if the velocity of the projectile in the descent>initial velocity, which could be possible, but i dont think this is the case in crpg.

Regarding the pikes and spears, it is impossible to stab someone point blank (unless you do some fancy 360 moves or something). But even when you are able to stab, the distance doesnt matter as long the velocity of the stab is constant, more corectly would be if the energy transfer is the same, but yea it does cost more energy to move an object further away, but i think these variables are a bit too much for a game like crpg and it wouldnt really matter that much.

Wrong! Using spear at point blank range is actually piece of cake, just turn a little right, and when you release attack, turn back left.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Elindor on August 02, 2013, 08:41:55 pm
Huh, lot of interesting archery physics in here...

As for your original questions...in terms of what is good for gameplay here is my thoughts.

1 - Archery at close range : Not a big gameplay issue imho -  when that unarmed archer shows guts and stands his ground while a heavily armed strength 2h charges him and then releases his arrow at the last instant before the sword of war lands on his head...and walks off victorious...I don't think anyone can argue that took balls (even the 2h would admit that, and I am one)

2 - Stabs from long weapons at close range : Yes, this is a game play problem in my opinion.  As you mentioned in your original post, long weapons should have advantages at their effective range and lose that effectiveness to varying degrees once the opponent is inside that range.  Now, many of you would say this does already happen...and im sure it does - but it would seem not enough.  Now I don't propose to nerf long weapons into non existence...but its worth looking into.  Plus theres plenty of 0 slot 1h that could be pulled out when the longspear's range has been breached...maybe we increase the speed of switching weapons?

Anyhow, just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 08, 2013, 11:26:35 am
Garison, I hope you know that arrows used in medevial battles were really stiff and heavier than yours. Because of stiffnes and higher mass they got better penetration attributes.

Higher inertia (it's connected to mass) makes they hit harder than light arrows . Additional aspect is that energy needs time to travel from one objest to another on impact, so it's next + for Heavy arrows :)

How deep arrow will penetrate target is also determinated in wich stadium of bent arrow is, highest penetration of course is when arrow hits target while it's straight.
Different bows (sorted by how much power need to draw them) gonna bent same arrow a bit different, and in tests like yours it could show different results on same distances(we nedd to scale results of course).
 

Anyway + for your tests :)
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on September 08, 2013, 11:28:43 am
Nerf instastab shit
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Kafein on September 08, 2013, 11:41:53 am
Anyway, an arrow hitting at a closer distance than about twice the length of the arrow should do strictly nothing, considering it has not yet reached its cruising speed. This would also really affect gameplay.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Nightmare798 on September 08, 2013, 07:45:56 pm
Anyway, an arrow hitting at a closer distance than about twice the length of the arrow should do strictly nothing, considering it has not yet reached its cruising speed. This would also really affect gameplay.

flexing has nothing to do with actual damage, when the arrow hits, thats when the energy is absorbed by target.

as for xbows. damage potential is actually much greater upon release of bolt, as this is the moment when the projectile has most energy.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Kafein on September 08, 2013, 09:03:36 pm
flexing has nothing to do with actual damage, when the arrow hits, thats when the energy is absorbed by target.

as for xbows. damage potential is actually much greater upon release of bolt, as this is the moment when the projectile has most energy.

Maybe read what I said first next time. When the arrow or bolt is halfway released, it should not do as much damage, and preferably none. Try to shoot at something less than the length of your arrow away from the point you grab your bow.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Nightmare798 on September 08, 2013, 09:26:04 pm
Maybe read what I said first next time. When the arrow or bolt is halfway released, it should not do as much damage, and preferably none. Try to shoot at something less than the length of your arrow away from the point you grab your bow.

you still umbue the projectile with the energy of your draw, even if at point blank, you still launch a pointy projectile with considerable force.
Title: Re: Point blank range and dmg
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 08, 2013, 09:55:41 pm
The bow-string does need to finish imparting the entire energy transfer into the projectile though, hence the "minimum distance" he is talking about. Otherwise if the arrow strikes you two feet from the front of the bow while it is still being released from the string (and still touching it) then you are not going to suffer the same kinetic transfer.