cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Sandersson Jankins on December 22, 2012, 01:58:35 am

Title: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on December 22, 2012, 01:58:35 am
Hey folks, next generation I plan on going swashbuckler! I've done it in the past with hybrid builds to rather good success; I imagine I'll be much better off with a pure build. Now, I was thinking of these builds (apologies for not putting them in nice formats, all builds assume maxed PS and ATH):

24-15, sacrificing large amounts of WM for IF. I've never really done this build on anything, so it wouldn't be very natural to me at first. Also am used to balanced/agi builds, and this is getting into minor str crutch territory.

15-24, sacrificing WM again for IF. I'm very used to this build, am using a modified version of it currently and have done so maybe 3-4 gens previously. However, I want to use a sword with this build, and 5PS does both glance a fucking ton, and do moderate damage at best.

21-21, same story. I've done this build, but only with polearms. I feel it would give me awesome athletics for footwork, and very good PS too for the damage. Downside is, of course, tw's and ranged will fuck me up. I've now got +3 body and hand armors though, and I don't wear light armor, so it may not be too bad.


In terms of weapons, I think I'd be using the italian sword, the knightly arming sword, or perhaps something else. I'm relatively set on a sword though, mostly for the swag points. I think I'd use a flanged or iberian mace if I wanted to be as brutally effective as possible.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: San on December 22, 2012, 02:15:25 am
If you're only leveling to 30, it might benefit to have a few more free points instead of sacrificing a lot of WM/IF. 1h no shield needs a bit of speed, so unless you feel perfectly comfortable with 5ath, I recommend at least 6.


I had a 18/21 STF 1h and used a liuyedao and flanged mace. It was incredibly fast and fun. You don't take down enemies very quickly, but you gain a ton of points. I recommend 21/18 or 18/21. If you're planning on leveling, 21/21 or 24/18 at later levels.

Some of the best EU 1hs used 24/18 iirc.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Pentecost on December 22, 2012, 02:45:15 am
I second what San is saying about either 21/18 or 18/21 for a level 30 build. Because most of your opponents have weapons that are going to outreach yours, you will probably want a comparatively faster character so that you greatsword/glaive backpedallers have a harder time. Being able to flank the main infantry blob more quickly is also a plus.

In terms of weapons, I think I'd be using the italian sword, the knightly arming sword, or perhaps something else. I'm relatively set on a sword though, mostly for the swag points. I think I'd use a flanged or iberian mace if I wanted to be as brutally effective as possible.

Regarding this point specifically--the swords you mentioned are indeed nice, but the one downside to them that really becomes apparent when you swashbuckle with them is that they'll be hitstunned quite often against people with weapons weighing 3kg or more. Even though you can't be hitstunned twice in a row, it still forces you to basically block twice for every attack unless you're good enough to dance in and out of many of their swings (I'm not). It may not end up being a problem for you, but it if it does, you should consider going for a heavier weapon like the Military Cleaver or one of the maces you mentioned so that your opponent at least has to hold and not just swing for it to happen.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Falka on December 22, 2012, 08:40:01 am
Two best 1h from Eu siege have only 5 ath, Fuma Kotaru has 24 15 and TrollFaceGod even 27 15 and they are extremaly effective. Both of them are flawless blockers, but even I, not being so good, can do pretty well with this build  :wink: I've tried both 24/18 and 27/15 builds and with medium armor 5 ath isn't that bad, even on battle.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on December 22, 2012, 09:18:49 am
Well, I would enjoy having a workable build at 30, but I tend to retire at 32 unless I start to dislike my build, in which case I just call it off at 31. I'm thinking that I might go with the 21/21, deal with no or barely any IF at 30 and then just pump IF at 31 or even 32.

@Pentecost: I have used a +3 flanged mace extensively, enjoyed it, and was much more effective than if I used a sword. I tend to feel that 1h blunt is completely superior for infantry v infantry combat, bordering on overpowered. However, I think I'll go with a traditional sword. Tough to fight cav with a 70length weapon, and I really just want to look ballin' with a nice sword.

@Falka: Nice sig.

@San: You're my main source of inspiration for the 1h build, bro. I have seen you absolutely annihilate many, many people on your sanwarrior alt. When I want to watch a polearm user for ideas, I watch Rhaelys or Kap10 or someone, if I want to watch a 1h, I'll watch you or plague...no clue why that guy doesn't just use his mw arabian cav with no shield and wreck faces all day, valor every round. But fer real, really solid players like you are really good for the community. Don't talk shit or anything, just kick people's asses. Much respect /fanboy
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Teeth on December 22, 2012, 10:55:12 am
I recommend 24/15. 1h are designed to be used with a shield, that means that a 1h of 1.5 weight, has less of a penalty on movement speed as a 2h with the same weight. 1h weapons are light and short anyway, which are the other two factors in reducing movement speed. Seeing as you lack the 5+ weight shield, you move rather fast so going low on athlethics is definitely an option.

With 8 ps, a tendency to hold and animations that allow to hit the face very easily, you do a shitload of damage. I had 4 WM with that build and used a MW NCS and I got regular complaints that my swings were so fucking fast.

I really recommend using a 100+ range sword as lower ranges will leave you very little opportunities to attack. Although that goes mostly for battle, where especially on EU there is loads of longspears, hoplites, glaives and Danishes. On siege or something blunt will probably be pretty beast, my personal favourite being the military hammer.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 22, 2012, 11:48:54 am
I recommend 12/27.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: oerput on December 22, 2012, 01:33:53 pm
21/18

7 ps
5 if
6 ath
5 wm
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on December 22, 2012, 05:51:26 pm
I recommend 24/15. 1h are designed to be used with a shield, that means that a 1h of 1.5 weight, has less of a penalty on movement speed as a 2h with the same weight. 1h weapons are light and short anyway, which are the other two factors in reducing movement speed. Seeing as you lack the 5+ weight shield, you move rather fast so going low on athlethics is definitely an option.

With 8 ps, a tendency to hold and animations that allow to hit the face very easily, you do a shitload of damage. I had 4 WM with that build and used a MW NCS and I got regular complaints that my swings were so fucking fast.

I really recommend using a 100+ range sword as lower ranges will leave you very little opportunities to attack. Although that goes mostly for battle, where especially on EU there is loads of longspears, hoplites, glaives and Danishes. On siege or something blunt will probably be pretty beast, my personal favourite being the military hammer.

Plenty of damned glaives, greatswords, and countless longswords/HBS on NA as well. So, would you say that holding swings is quite important in this 1h thing? I rather tend to play a very feint-heavy playstyle no matter what class I'm playing, and most of the good 1h on NA do the same. I do not doubt you much, though. I've seen you on duel when I go to EU strat battles and you tear it the fuck up.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Teeth on December 22, 2012, 06:45:04 pm
Plenty of damned glaives, greatswords, and countless longswords/HBS on NA as well. So, would you say that holding swings is quite important in this 1h thing? I rather tend to play a very feint-heavy playstyle no matter what class I'm playing, and most of the good 1h on NA do the same. I do not doubt you much, though. I've seen you on duel when I go to EU strat battles and you tear it the fuck up.
It is the rightswing that I tend to hold a lot. Hold it, wiggle it back and forth and smash it into the face of those pesky Danish 2h hero's who are sure they can outreach you. As far as getting someone isolated, close up feinting works is great, especially left swing and overhead because they look a like. Generally though you want to have somewhat of a balance between doing regular attacks, holds and feints. Being a very feint heavy fighter will not end well for you everytime you meet someone that can chamber.

I don't know how your chambers are, but the 1h leftswing is one of the easiest ones to pull of, while also being very hard to block. It is probably worth it to spent some time to get comfortable with it, especially because polearmers do mostly rightswings.

Here is some further swashbuckling advice I once PM-ed to someone, there might be something useful in there:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Commodore_Axephante on December 22, 2012, 07:42:30 pm
noob question - Swashbuckler - does that refer to anything other than a dedicated 1h user? What defines a Swashbuckler build?
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on December 22, 2012, 10:18:30 pm
@Axephante It's just a common term for folks using a one-handed weapon without a shield. It's preferable for a lot of people to say, rather than 1h noshield or some other term.

@Teeth Thanks for the guide! I've actually read it in the past, looking through this same subforum. I'm just now learning to use holds effectively, but I'm very good at feints. I am really enjoying the idea of having either an axe or a pick for opening cans or breaking shields. I've still got quite a ways to go until my current build is at 32 to retire. I'm currently running a 17-24 (difficulty for poleaxe is 17, I know its a bit silly though) build with some 1h wpf, so I'm keeping my 1h game on lock while I play this polearm dude. Again, thanks for the help, much respect. I will heed your words, wise Teeth.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Gurnisson on December 23, 2012, 04:11:29 am
18/21 or 18/24. Don't need more than 6 ps, but the maneuverability is vital. At least that's my opinion when fighting with a one-hander, especially without shield.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: San on December 23, 2012, 08:08:34 am
I use a shorter weapon, 88 length and lower, and I hold overhead the most when I am actually trying to hit past a block or in a group. Because you're somewhat close to them, you're often overheading and turning towards them. It's very awkward to turn and block up at the same time. Overhead has a decent range bonus and nice speed, too, which makes holds nice since it comes out quick upon release. If you release before the opponent, you can be pretty sure of a hit unlike the right swing sometimes. Wiggling is important to get them to screw up for all of your swings.

Feints and holds on someone who blocks well are aimed to mess up their timing and footwork. Getting them to hesitate after a block to attack means that you begin to control the pace of the fight. See them misstep (ex. walking away from a swing you see about to come out) are clues that you may be able to swing again or lead them into other nasty tricks.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Kafein on December 23, 2012, 12:20:25 pm
This is a STF one hander, using a broad short sword + plate (I wanted to test the best possible setup for stabby onehanders)


Strength:27
Agility:12

One Handed:116
Two Handed:1+
Polearm:1+
Throwing:1+
Crossbow:1+
Archery:1+

Weapon Master:1
Athletics:4
Riding:0
Iron Flesh:9
Shield:0
Horse Archery:0
Power Strike:9
Power Draw:0
Power Throw:0


I works quite well. Mostly because 9IF + plate can take a lot of punishment, even with 9PS the damage on stabs and swings is incredibly weak.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: POOPHAMMER on December 23, 2012, 12:25:45 pm
try the italian falchion that thing is nasty
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on December 23, 2012, 12:28:38 pm
24 15

5 IF
8 PS
5 ATH
5 WM

All WPF in 1h will be around ~145

I'm currently using a Mongol Armor + Golden Horde Helmet + Heavy Gauntlets + Rus Cavalry Boots + Nordic Championsword total weight of 17.6 (if i calculated it right) and you are still quite fast because with the str (24) the slowdown of armors will go down  and with 5 ath you ll get some small boost :W your damage is very good and its needed as a swashbuckler because you don't have 40 cut average weapons like the 2h/pole faction and you are still able to outrange most of the 2h (many of them are stupid and underestimate the right swing range :D) with a bit of movement and skill.
If you are going for a higher level and you take this build as basic I'd go for either 27/18 or 30/15 (I'm going for the 30 str build) but thats a different story :D if you want some more tipps for some weapons or something like that message me :)
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Teeth on December 23, 2012, 12:56:21 pm
with the str (24) the slowdown of armors will go down
This is not true.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on December 23, 2012, 01:12:18 pm
This is not true.

not ? i thought str will give you some kind of boost on heavy armor so you are faster in them with more str than with more agi
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Shinimas_Tea on December 23, 2012, 05:03:08 pm
not ? i thought str will give you some kind of boost on heavy armor so you are faster in them with more str than with more agi

Nope. The reason you see heavy armored guys being so fast is because the weight effect is barely there. That's why everybody is a tincan.
Title: Re: Swashbucklin'
Post by: Kafein on December 23, 2012, 05:44:04 pm
Nope. The reason you see heavy armored guys being so fast is because the weight effect is barely there. That's why everybody is a tincan.

The weight effect is there, but only significantly affects early acceleration and not so much top speed. People that learn to conserve their momentum in combat appear as fast even in heavy armor.


Also don't forget most of the real tincans ae in fact high level. They got high STR and high survivability with the lower levels, but with more points in agility they can put on heavier armor without turning into turtles.