cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: owens on December 12, 2012, 01:15:25 am

Title: Turn speed (A new approach)
Post by: owens on December 12, 2012, 01:15:25 am
For those of you who haven't studied rotational mechanics or don't get it. Moment of inertia is how difficult something is to accelerate not linearly but in a an arc around a central point. Rotational acceleration  is not however the "acceleration" of the weapon but a measure radians per second per second.

So moment of inertia is how difficult it is to increase somethings angular velocity.

In practice the moment of inertia increases as the majority of mass moves further away from the point of reference.

I am proposing using a real physical relationship that  we could improve the turnspeed code. Using inertia in place of length within the code with an appropriate scaling factor of course.

At the moment spears are more difficult to spin than a bardiche, wth? Not fair really so i propose a real world approach.


Moment of inertia for a thin rod rotating about its end plus a standard moment of inertia for the character would represent the swords and spears. Heavy ended pole-arms could get a higher moment of inertia per unit length maybe 1/2*ml^2. Mauls as above could be treated as a point mass with an even higher moment at ml^2. Keeping in mind that their length is much lower and that length is to the largest power in the inertia equation.

(click to show/hide)


This will buff lighter weapons and their damage or speed might need to be bought into line accordingly.


The longer and heavier the more penalty to turn speed.


Title: Re: Turn speed based on moment of inertia.
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on December 12, 2012, 11:29:57 am
I like this. It would bring back the turning speed of less weight weapons while still maintaining it for heavy Weapons as Mauls.
I think this is a very good solution to the present situation.

Mauls or pikes with the vanilla turnspeed are obviously overpowered while the nerf for a plethora of the other weapons dumbed down combat significantly and a lot of people think is not one of the best changes ever made... Maybe the formula could use a bit tinkering with though...
Title: Re: Turn speed based on moment of inertia.
Post by: Molly on December 12, 2012, 01:17:12 pm
Well, you calculated an Inertia value but you didn't state how this value is supposed to alter the turnspeed.

Let's say that you normalized the Inertia value e.g. we get values between 0 and 1. Long Maul/Great Maul would be the base for the normalization. This means Mauls (which one?) gets the normalized value of 1 or 0, depending on how you gonna do it. Would make sense to use the 0 for the base. That way a basic turnspeed + a multiplier as alteration would allow a low turnspeed as base, fastest weapon would get the "1" as value for the added speed while turning...


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Turn speed based on moment of inertia.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 15, 2012, 12:06:43 am
inertia applies to acceleration, not to speed. altough this is one of the best suggestions ever (i was too lazy to look through your calculations atm, bio engineering has enough maths already)

with inertia, you can actually explain alot of things like weapons speed, turnspeed, unbalanced weapons and even the fact that the start of your swing doesnt do much damage. altough, i dont know if the devs are in to physics that much so maybe we should sit around this and try to calculate something for them. this will be very hard as 'our' calculations will be very realistic, yet unbalance the game like fuck
Title: Re: Turn speed (A new approach)
Post by: owens on December 17, 2012, 02:02:03 pm
bump
Title: Re: Turn speed based on moment of inertia.
Post by: Molly on December 17, 2012, 02:09:56 pm
Quote from: benkei on December 12, 2012, 01:17:12 pm
[...] Long Maul/Great Maul would be the base for the chocolate chip cookieon. [...]
Why is there a chocolate chip cookie in my post?!  :shock:

The word is "calculation"!
Title: Re: Turn speed based on moment of inertia.
Post by: Paul on December 17, 2012, 02:12:49 pm
Quote from: no_rules_just_play on December 15, 2012, 12:06:43 am
altough, i dont know if the devs are in to physics that much so maybe we should sit around this and try to calculate something for them.

i stopped at calculating inna GTR cause i cannot into tensor (field) analysis
Title: Re: Turn speed (A new approach)
Post by: Phew on December 20, 2012, 03:53:56 pm
This has been suggested before, and I believe a proper physics model in the weapon animations would solve several balance/gameplay issues all at once:
-Would prevent the ridiculous hiltslashing
-Would allow people with short/light weapons to actually use overheads again
-Would still prevent the pike roflcoptering and maul spin overhead sweeps that were horribly unbalanced
Title: Re: Turn speed (A new approach)
Post by: owens on January 13, 2013, 02:49:48 am
So i just saw this appear in the update logs for test servers.



Thanks devs.

I really appreciate it
Title: Re: Turn speed (A new approach)
Post by: El_Infante on January 13, 2013, 03:44:56 pm
It is a great suggestion, but I doubt if it's possible to develop on the current engine which have severe limitations. Maybe with WSE2? I don't know if the engine can support a "dynamic" turn speed or it's just a variable. It will be the definitive balance between short & light weapons vs heavy or larger ones.