cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 05, 2012, 08:12:31 pm

Title: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 05, 2012, 08:12:31 pm
Been hearing a lot of people asking for faster gameplay, but I really, really, disagree.
The gamespeed is pretty much the same as nditions atm, and I do believe this is the best possible speed, I can still play while my ping spikes up to 100 for a good while, heck if I block fast enough I can play in NA, therefore I do not believe gamespeed needs to be slowed down, 100 ping is a good amount for it to go from functional to hard as hell to almost impossible,.
Speeding up the game will solve nothing either, it's easy to make crazy feints on Nditions, that's what makes it seem faster, you gotta keep track of more, and due to less hp fights are more intense, everyone can block now a days, and almost every kind of feint can be blocked after enough practice, all speeding up the game would do would occasionally make certain weapons capable of hitting the instant they start swinging instead of just being hard to block.

Speeding up the game just makes random spam more effective, the only way to truly make the game seem faster and more intense is to add as many quick little features that your opponent and you can use. Those hits Paul made sound amazing, so does weapons dealing real different damage and even different damage types depending on where they hit as CMP showed us ages ago. Those little things could make the game a lot more skillbased, speeding up gameplay doesn't really do that, it just makes it harder to be the guy with low fps or with a high ping, and further benefits us assholes living on the server with 40 or less in ping and good computers.
A faster game is not that much more hard, or that much more fun, insta hits, spam, chambering gets even harder but admittedly a bit more rewarding, what the game really needs is more of those tiny extra features people have to watch out for in melee, jumps, kicks, fists, etc, I'm extremely grateful that it seems the devs are taking that route instead of just making things faster.

Edit: Reread what I wrote, I apologize for it being extremely badly written.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Daniisme on December 05, 2012, 08:18:50 pm
For some reason since cRPG luncher was updated my ping is at 116+ and it's alot harder to play....


I think the gameplay speed shouldn't be faster so I support your opinion.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Callan on December 06, 2012, 09:04:28 am
Eh, Wouldn't mind faster run speeds.

Agi feels kinda pointless at the moment.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Vibe on December 06, 2012, 09:08:04 am
The fuck are you saying, nditions is tons faster. There is no possible way to feint as fast on cRPG as you can on nditions. The reason being either weapon speeds or higher wpf, as I think the game speed is the same.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Callan on December 06, 2012, 09:09:05 am
Gotta love Nditions :D
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on December 06, 2012, 10:34:27 am
Been hearing a lot of people asking for faster gameplay, but I really, really, disagree.
The gamespeed is pretty much the same as nditions atm, and I do believe this is the best possible speed, I can still play while my ping spikes up to 100 for a good while, heck if I block fast enough I can play in NA, therefore I do not believe gamespeed needs to be slowed down, 100 ping is a good amount for it to go from functional to hard as hell to almost impossible,.
Speeding up the game will solve nothing either, it's easy to make crazy feints on Nditions, that's what makes it seem faster, you gotta keep track of more, and due to less hp fights are more intense, everyone can block now a days, and almost every kind of feint can be blocked after enough practice, all speeding up the game would do would occasionally make certain weapons capable of hitting the instant they start swinging instead of just being hard to block.

Speeding up the game just makes random spam more effective, the only way to truly make the game seem faster and more intense is to add as many quick little features that your opponent and you can use. Those hits Paul made sound amazing, so does weapons dealing real different damage and even different damage types depending on where they hit as CMP showed us ages ago. Those little things could make the game a lot more skillbased, speeding up gameplay doesn't really do that, it just makes it harder to be the guy with low fps or with a high ping, and further benefits us assholes living on the server with 40 or less in ping and good computers.
A faster game is not that much more hard, or that much more fun, insta hits, spam, chambering gets even harder but admittedly a bit more rewarding, what the game really needs is more of those tiny extra features people have to watch out for in melee, jumps, kicks, fists, etc, I'm extremely grateful that it seems the devs are taking that route instead of just making things faster.

Edit: Reread what I wrote, I apologize for it being extremely badly written.
+1 just because my ping is 90+ and upping speed would be the final blow ending my c-rpg career
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: GiuseppeBlackRose on December 06, 2012, 10:36:03 am
Keep it slow, Man  :shock:
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Tzar on December 06, 2012, 11:07:18 am
Screw all you pot heads an stoner's this mod needs a weapon speed increase duels are incredible boring and just plain....  :lol:
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: LordRichrich on December 06, 2012, 01:46:24 pm
Lul, up to 120 ping is (just) playable. 90 ping is fine to play with. I used to have those a while back and did ok. Now my ping is 40-60 and ofc it's easier but not significantly
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Kafein on December 06, 2012, 02:03:01 pm
Increase apparent game speed :
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Jarlek on December 06, 2012, 02:22:20 pm
Increase apparent game speed :
  • Decrease HP or/and increase damage across the board, making fights shorter. Also this is and indirect buff to agi.
  • Increase the maximum feint speed (aka lower the time it takes change between different held swings).
  • Increase the delay between two complete strikes (missing or blocked) to prevent spam and s key fests.
If this is meant to show people why they think NDitions is faster: +1

If this is meant as an actual suggestion: -1 to first and second, +1 to third.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Leshma on December 06, 2012, 02:25:11 pm
Zero weight bug was awesome, I would like some more of that :D
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Falka on December 06, 2012, 02:37:39 pm
Lul, up to 120 ping is (just) playable. 90 ping is fine to play with. I used to have those a while back and did ok. Now my ping is 40-60 and ofc it's easier but not significantly
Till sepember this year I had wireless connection and 70-90 ping. It's much easier with cable connection and 40 ping  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Kafein on December 06, 2012, 02:39:16 pm
If this is meant to show people why they think NDitions is faster: +1

If this is meant as an actual suggestion: -1 to first and second, +1 to third.

It's a little of both tbh. Why would it be a bad suggestion ?
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Thomek on December 06, 2012, 02:40:44 pm
in my experience with lots of different isp's etc.. Game becomes truly enjoyable at less than 45-50 ping. Above that, expect less control and more random glances, less accuracy in timing etc. 
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Kafein on December 06, 2012, 02:42:28 pm
in my experience with lots of different isp's etc.. Game becomes truly enjoyable at less than 45-50 ping. Above that, expect less control and more random glances, less accuracy in timing etc.

Your avatar is awesome
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: woody on December 06, 2012, 02:49:38 pm
If weapon speeds go up I look forward to spamming longswords, miadaos and scimitars non stop.

Also buff damage and weapon speed again for faster weapons because blocking is for wusses.

On a serious note, how about a minimum ping? Maybe then people with 20 ping or less wont find it too easy.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Kafein on December 06, 2012, 02:52:55 pm
I heard on dev IRC that the ping balancer already midly fucks over people with < 50 ping, but that was long ago.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on December 06, 2012, 02:55:06 pm
Your avatar is awesome
This.

Screw all you pot heads an stoner's this mod needs a weapon speed increase duels are incredible boring and just plain....  :lol:

A much better way to make duels less boring would be to add a lot more things you can keep track of (not talking stamina btw but actual things such as kicks, jumps and chambers).

Eh, Wouldn't mind faster run speeds.

Agi feels kinda pointless at the moment.
Faster run speeds would be more fun in my personal opinion, I was mainly talking about speeding everything up, but faster runspeeds aren't really all that necessary in my opinion.
On a serious note, how about a minimum ping? Maybe then people with 20 ping or less wont find it too easy.
Pretty sure there already is a minimum worthwhile ping of 40, ain't sure though.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Pentecost on December 06, 2012, 03:50:05 pm
I agree with what you're saying, but I can also see where the other side is coming from too.

The reason some people want to see the game sped up is that any player of decent ability--not even one of the PROs with 2 years of playtime, just your average pretty good cRPG player--who decides to just focus on blocking and to not attack at all can pretty much do so indefinitely as long as he has space to back up so that you can't kick him. They say that's a symptom of the difficulty of melee combat not being adjusted to account for the increase in player ability over the lifetime of the mod, and, from what I've observed, they may have a point.

As you've noted though, just speeding up the game is not the only or necessarily best solution to the situation.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Jarlek on December 06, 2012, 09:38:03 pm
It's a little of both tbh. Why would it be a bad suggestion ?
Edit: Mother of god, I've created a monster! All I wanted was to make a reply, but then I just kept writing! Someone stop me D:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Kafein on December 06, 2012, 10:22:18 pm
Right now STR is Survival (IF) AND damage (PS/PD/PT), while athletics is only mobility (athl/riding) and accuracy/hybriding (wpf. only 100 needed for melee). Most people don't use ranged or multiple weapons (why is this? I would love if going into battle with only 1 weapon was a BAD thing), so if you have to choose between Damage AND Survival or Mobility, why go for the 1 out of 3 instead of the 2 out of 3?

I don't really agree with this. Both my experience and actual numbers tend to show that there is little difference between the actual (all variables considered) damage throughput of STR and AGI builds when you don't go out of the 24/15 - 15/24 range, which is I believe the vast majority of the playerbase. STR builds however, can take a lot of punishment.

But I get your point.
Title: Re: Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster
Post by: Jarlek on December 06, 2012, 11:00:02 pm
Oh fuck you Leshma, you put me on a writing spree again!

I don't really agree with this. Both my experience and actual numbers tend to show that there is little difference between the actual (all variables considered) damage throughput of STR and AGI builds when you don't go out of the 24/15 - 15/24 range, which is I believe the vast majority of the playerbase. STR builds however, can take a lot of punishment.

But I get your point.
You are talking about the difference between 8 PS and 5 PS I assume? Yeah, it's actually not that big. Hitting in the middle of the animation, holding attacks and movement speed can more than make up for this. Which I find cool. But it really becomes broken when you get 10 or more. The main drawback on high STR builds should be the mobility, but as long as you take the longest reaching, swingable, melee weapons (greatswords, glaive and poleaxes) then you are completely fine, because you will never be outreached. Again, not a problem if they could just be shot to death, but since the slow, high damaging guys also have the more health, that also makes them able to soak so many projectiles. Why waste 5 arrows (pluss missed shots) on a slow STR guy when you can kill the 18/18 5 IF guy with two? Also, 90% of the people with a shield is also walking as slow as the STR guys while taking way fewer projectiles. Shields shouldn't slow you down so much.

Doing the right things to max your damage should be rewarded, I actually think they should nerf the damage of the "hit early in animation" (which is why hiltslashing works) high damaging weapons even more. Currently it just makes them as fast as the faster weapons (with sameish damage), but able to do a slower, more damaging, attack too.

Last gen when I was crossbowman I got *name removed* raging on me for surviving 2 hits from his Great Axe, even though he had 8 PS (had 10% left), while I killed him in 3 hits with my military hammer. I tried to explain to him that it was because he was hitting too early in his animations with not held attacks, while I did held attacks, aimed at his head and used his momentum against him. But he just kept ignoring what I wrote and calling me bad names :(