cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: problemsir on November 29, 2012, 06:09:31 am

Title: The winter of my discontent
Post by: problemsir on November 29, 2012, 06:09:31 am
http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/the-root-of-all-misery-in-crpg/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/the-root-of-all-misery-in-crpg/)
http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/what-crpg-needs-(imho)-yet-another-emotional-principle-discussion/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/what-crpg-needs-(imho)-yet-another-emotional-principle-discussion/)
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/how-to-make-archery-more-fun-for-everyone/msg588659/#msg588659 (http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/how-to-make-archery-more-fun-for-everyone/msg588659/#msg588659)
 and the infamous http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/save-crpg!-nerf-ranged/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/save-crpg!-nerf-ranged/)

I have been lurking this forum for a while now, restraining myself from making too many remarks and embarrassing complaints. While I don't think I can make too much of an impact on what the developers want to do with this game, I still want to try. (Btw, sorry if this belongs in the suggestion corner.)

Archery. One of the only things on people's minds when they think about balance. This one class has been the "root of all misery" recently, what with kiting, and the recent archery nerfs. What I'm trying to do with this thread, is sort out every single GOOD idea from the bad ones, using every balance-related thread I can fish up. I'll get to the point. Kiting, how do we fix it? It certainly wasn't fixed in the latest patch. I've sifted through a couple suggestions made in other threads, and it seems to me that everyone seems to be okay with the idea that archers shouldnt be able to move quickly with their bow. Along with this nerf though, archers should gain more power, so that they dont go QQing because they cant kite anymore, which I'm sure they would do. Archer's melee should also be buffed, so that archers actually have the option to turn around and fight instead of gay kiting.

Other sources of discontent

Upkeep: While others may see problems with this system, I do not. Some may argue that this system restricts certain item builds and makes them unbalanced when they are actually used. Removing upkeep is not the answer, it would be unreasonable for new players as they would constantly be fighting fully armour tincans or horn/longbow archers.

Higher level cap (increased game speed): We all know that crpg is slow. This is probably one of the most viable ways of increasing game speed. While this would also make the game somewhat unreasonable for new players, they would but need to play only somewhat to stand a chance. This would also be a chance to see some interesting hybrids.

Team Balancing: This is an obvious problem. I have found myself constantly on the recieving end of a 100% unbalanced team. Not only that, but the current balancing system is fucking bullshit in and of itself. Numerous times my friend and I(BFU_adriana/Dommie), have found eachother teamswitched, and the result of the teamswitch was the EXACT SAME TEAMS BEFORE THE TEAMSWITCH. this is preposterous.

Well, that was my short rant on the current going-ons of Crpg.

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 29, 2012, 06:31:38 am
Seems like a good post, but there is no chance of people agreeing on how to fix issues such as kiting.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Kelugarn on November 29, 2012, 06:34:20 am
Revert all nerfs.
Buff everything back to the most OP state it was in and then buff it some more. If you want to stay alive rely on skill, not balance.

Add style points.
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Artyem on November 29, 2012, 06:37:14 am
Interesting post, however:

Upkeep is basically useless now, considering how easy it is to make 400 - 500k off the marketplace with a single heirloom point, and I know a number of people who wanted to get into this mod but can't stand the number of full plate tin cans that they need to face down at level 1.  So yes, upkeep is indeed an issue in the sense that it's pretty much completely unneeded now.  It just gives newer players difficulty trying to keep good gear until level 31.

A higher level cap would be neat, but they would need to add initiative to go past level, say, 33 (retiring at level 33 = adkfajweklgjaklwjhkasdjg) aside from going "HAVE MORE HEIRLOOM POINTS".

Team balance is pretty fucking weird, I'm not going to lie.  More often than not I see completely useless, ineffective, horrible team switches that usually just stack one thing or another on one team, leaving the other to get massacred (hence the title "auto-stacker").

Seems like a good post, but there is no chance of people agreeing on how to fix issues such as kiting.

And yeah, this ^.
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Tibe on November 29, 2012, 07:00:23 am
Kiters gonna kite!
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: problemsir on November 29, 2012, 07:09:49 am
Quote
A higher level cap would be neat, but they would need to add initiative to go past level, say, 33 (retiring at level 33 = adkfajweklgjaklwjhkasdjg) aside from going "HAVE MORE HEIRLOOM POINTS".


What I meant by a higher level cap was make it easier to level up in the beginning and late stages and, well, raise the cap.
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Berserkadin on November 29, 2012, 11:49:27 pm
Stupid to nerf ranged, best thing to do would be to INCREASE THE FUCKEN SPEED!!! So melee combat is fast and exciting, and you actually can kill someone in matters of seconds instead of minutes. Instead of being picked of by archers and cav while you try to fight in slo-mo. Would be fun to see the old stats on weapons before the devs of this mod went FULL RETARD.
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Haboe on November 30, 2012, 12:02:15 am
(click to show/hide)

ToD, fix your avatar!
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 30, 2012, 12:12:12 am
ToD, fix your avatar!


Should be fixed! <3
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Rumblood on November 30, 2012, 12:23:59 am
Kiters gonna kite!

You got that right!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Haboe on November 30, 2012, 12:42:19 am

Should be fixed! <3

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: BlueKnight on November 30, 2012, 01:11:58 pm
1) Upkeep is basically useless now, considering how easy it is to make 400 - 500k off the marketplace with a single heirloom point, and I know a number of people who wanted to get into this mod but can't stand the number of full plate tin cans that they need to face down at level 1.  So yes, upkeep is indeed an issue in the sense that it's pretty much completely unneeded now.  It just gives newer players difficulty trying to keep good gear until level 31.

2) A higher level cap would be neat, but they would need to add initiative to go past level, say, 33 (retiring at level 33 = adkfajweklgjaklwjhkasdjg) aside from going "HAVE MORE HEIRLOOM POINTS".

3) Team balance is pretty fucking weird, I'm not going to lie.  More often than not I see completely useless, ineffective, horrible team switches that usually just stack one thing or another on one team, leaving the other to get massacred (hence the title "auto-stacker").
1) - upkeep could be brought back to life by removing marketplace and adding the "loompoint reassign option". It would allow to reassign your loompoints (something like loom respec). It would have cooldown of like 3 weeks or something so people don't spam with stupid items. It is strange that before you make something masterkworked, it usually gets nerfed and nobody wants it anymore (you neither), so loompoint reassigning could repair the nerf&looms like the famous one with Mighty Long Voulge etc. Also people would be able to try different classes without the risk of disliking it and having the previous items gone. It's hard to try some classes where loompoints mean a lot like cav, archer, crossbowman, not to mention horse archer...

The thing is that it would have to be done "like a ninja" so people don't buy a lot of shit just to get more loompoints later. Or would require total Loom&Gold-wipe and new loompoints and gold could be handed out with the formula like    loompoints=ur_gen-1   and    gold=(gen-1)*30k,   (those forumlas are just quick calculations and I haven't been thinking much about them so it could turn into strange thing. Maybe adding gold-cap to the gold that player would receive would be good idea ]

2) - I guess that it would be enough if current level 31 was replaced with 33 so you would need these 8,735,843exp to get to level 33 and the levels 29, 30, 31, 32 could be grouped a bit more so leveling from lvl 32-33 would be like 2mln exp not 4mln and retire at new 33 wouldn't be rewarded more than current retire at level 31. According to this, players with currently level 33 would be level 35 in new system. It's just about placing more stops on the way. Example:
                                                                                                                             |
                                                                                           old (current) system  V
x y   z                      28     29            30                                                  31                                                                                     32
| | | |  |   |    |     |     |        |               |                                                     |                                                                                         |
| | | |  |   |    |     |     |        |             |            |                 |                        |                                                                                         |
                               28     29          30          31             32                      33                                                                                      34
                                                                                            new system ^

3) Team Balance of 40 vs 40 isn't easy man... it can be completely random. I remember 1 example when Chase was in the winning team and scored like 15 kills and 0 deaths in first two rounds. Then he got switched and in next 2 rounds he scored 1 kill and 2 deaths so the losing team was still losing and balance didn't change anything.

On the other hand, sometimes it's completely different. Sometimes 1 team is winning for 3 rounds and then other team keeps winning for 3 rounds in the row and in the end of the map it's 3-3. It happens quite often to be honest.

Anyway, removing banner balance or making class>clan balance might not help either. There are loads of shitty cav that can be all dismounted by 1 good cav in the opposite team or 10 weak archers that could be replaced with 1 bagge in the other team.
player=/=player  =>  10players=//=10players. It's quality of players and backstabbing/teamwork/gangbang that win rounds.

Bannerbalance at least allows you to play with your friends and then when you are losing/winning, it's not that important anymore. (To be honest teambalance wouldn't be so important if the multi system didn't require you to win to develop your character. Leveling at x1 is nothing when compared to lvling at x5)


YES THIS IS A LONG-ASS POST
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Prpavi on November 30, 2012, 01:13:54 pm
cool Bibles there bros, hope somebody reads it  :wink:
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: BlueKnight on November 30, 2012, 01:18:42 pm
cool Bibles there bros, hope somebody reads it  :wink:
I will make the font smaller so people think there is less text  :D
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Gravoth_iii on November 30, 2012, 01:43:16 pm
I will make the font smaller so people think there is less text  :D

Kinda works.  :o

Also remove exp increase per gen, makes it way too painful for gen 1 people (new players) to get to their first loompoint, while gen 16 people can grind it out super fast in comparison. Instead add more multipliers or just increase exp per tick to something like an gen8 would get..
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Falka on November 30, 2012, 01:56:01 pm
I guess that it would be enough if current level 31 was replaced with 33
players with currently level 33 would be level 35 in new system.
And lvl 35 would be lvl 37! 24 24 build! Hell yeah!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Rumblood on November 30, 2012, 07:24:25 pm
Kinda works.  :o

Also remove exp increase per gen, makes it way too painful for gen 1 people (new players) to get to their first loompoint, while gen 16 people can grind it out super fast in comparison. Instead add more multipliers or just increase exp per tick to something like an gen8 would get..

You know what? No.

The new gen 1 people have it WAY easier than I did when I was doing gen 1-5. The top gen and level players right now are as Peasants compared to the raging Goretooth's and Gen 97 Kesh's that I had to deal with as a new player. No level limits, wpf limits, slot limits, no archery nerfs, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

Kids nowadays have got it way too easy.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: BlueKnight on November 30, 2012, 08:32:02 pm
You know... even if now they get more exp, more gold and it's easier for peasants, they are having their asses kicked more anyway. It's because player base proceeded a lot which means a lot of new players are dying from kicks, chambers, super magic combo movements etc. Long time ago players had better weapons, better armours and peasants had shit but there were more nabs and nabs could at least fight with nabs. People at that time weren't kicking and chambering so much.

Killing a newcomer is very easy anyway so they may well be given gear and exp in the begining. It won't change much for us but for them it will be helpful.

The moment when you push away newcomers is when they can't level up, they have shitty gear and they don't even know how to block so they can't even pretend they are fighting... Do you want to make it hard for them because it used to be hard for everyone over 2 years ago? At least we didn't have to start when playerbase was already skilled. They just had gear and could block manually.

We need peasants because we need more players not because we need fresh meat.

(forgot to mention that now everybody is running in loomed gear)
Title: Re: The winter of my discontent
Post by: Rumblood on November 30, 2012, 10:16:44 pm
There are still nabs to fight nabs.

Your suggestion won't change a thing. They will still NEVER catch up. Ever. Luckily, they don't have to. It doesn't take long to get a decent set of gear. What the players who have been around here forever have over them is the ability to change classes and have their gear set ready to go.

The ONLY thing your suggestion would do is slow down the time between retires which is when people switch to a new class. So you would just make it take THAT MUCH LONGER for the veterans who have earned the right to spend less time in a class.

FYI, people were blocking, kicking, feinting, chambering, hilt slashing, etc. 2 years ago as well.

And you know what? A peasant in MW gear will STILL get his ass kicked and FOR CERTAIN will quit the mod. You know why? Until that point he could believe that it was his gear holding him back and man, when he gets his good stuff, just watch out!
When it takes time to level, that actually turns out to be true. But give them instant gear and levels and suddenly they realize that it isn't the gear, but that they simply SUCK at the game and yeah, those lacking intestinal fortitude will quit.  :idea: