cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Yugop on April 22, 2011, 02:35:02 am
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I stopped playing warband some 6 months ago, and I have the feeling I'm now on the same level as your average noob :?
Now I've always prefered playing as your average infantry grunt, and for my new char I decided to go polearms. But something puzzles me : while I can cope with most other players, all those who use 2handed swords rape me. I've noticed that while my current weapon is supposed to deal more damage than those, I always need at least 3 hits to kill them, given they're not wearing cloth, but they can kill me in 1 or 2. I have 6 power strike, so it should be enough. Honestly, as things are now, I can't really see any reason to use anything else.
So I'm asking for advice related to polearms ...
What kind of weapon has proven effective ?
Is thrusting really useful ? It seems like any 2 handed sword can thrust longer and with more damage than me (though the stats say 31p for my weapon).
Is there anything both competitive and more original than the "spinning-poleaxe-of-frantic-swinging" kind of weapon ?
Should I take a secondary proficiency ?
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Hey Yugop! I remember you from TW forums.
Well, us Polearm users have to deal with this problem.
Two handers are too powerful compared to Polearms, we always were the underdogs, they talk about a tradeoff for our "diversity", but it isn't true. 2H has that variety and diversity as well.
The lolstabbing ability can work like a pike actually. It's painful to face, no matter what you are.
Effective weapons;
This version of C-RPG has new cookie cutter Polearms; The Long Hafted Blade became very powerful for an example.
Also, Spiked maces and the Glaive became very popular. Great Long Axe is a nice decision too.
Well, besides poleaxes, you can always try our two new weapons, the English Bill, and the Swiss Halberd.
Nice support weapons, and in capable hands they can be a primary attack weapon as well.
Secondary proficiencies? Well, the current cRPG version allowed Overhybridization, and that really hurts the gameplay.
You can easily get a 150/80 WPF combo, we have a lot of people with crossbows because of this, with strong backup weapons.
This needs a change ASAP.
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There are alot more str build around these days as crushthrough became more popular and the soft cap on wpf.
Ive currently got 9 ps and i still dont 1hit everybody with my poleaxe.
Glaive is a nice weapon and with the more balanced builds its great as you can hold you opponent at the distance you want.
Try grabbing a pike or bill and rolling as support, it inglorious but you can boost your team to a x5 with ease.
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On the topic of pole arm vs 2handers.
I use pole arms and I can tell you they are NOT underpowered compared to 2handers. Are you playing on NA? If so, you won't find a 2hander with less than 7 power strike. I think 8 and 9 is the average with 10 being very common. That is why you aren't getting even hit for hit kills.
Now with pole arms, I am very secure with my judgement that they are equal to 2handers -- although have weaker thrust animations it is made up in other areas. Especially in team work scenarios which SHOULD be every scenario. I always use the pike and english bill/swiss halberd now in battle and siege because they are so useful.
Oh, and pole axes are beast for one on one combat.
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Why thanks.
I think polearms just aren't my style, I keep missing and telling myself "dang, this would've hit with a 2 handed". Guess I'll just retire once I hit lvl 31. Ironically, the range just isn't long enough, I'm tired of chasing some dude with a sword without even being able to reach him.
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Bumping my own thread because it's quite frustrating : while doing well in native or other mods, I seem to suck horribly at this one. It seems like all my moves are sluggish, both movement and attack. Anyone experienced the same thing ? Sorry if it's a little vague, but I really can't find a way to explain it better.
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Bumping my own thread because it's quite frustrating : while doing well in native or other mods, I seem to suck horribly at this one. It seems like all my moves are sluggish, both movement and attack. Anyone experienced the same thing ? Sorry if it's a little vague, but I really can't find a way to explain it better.
A couple things can cause this feeling.
Do you play on NA? If you play when there are a lot of people on NA you are likely to experience annoying server lag due to all of them being hosted on the same [seemingly weak] box -- save for Acre NYC server. It gets sluggish and annoying so I just don't play in a server over 50 people.
Is your ping over 80 to cRPG? Probably isn't to other servers you play on and can be why.
Do you wear heavy armor? You'll be sluggish. Weight, agility, athletics and WPF has a lot to do with movement speed, attack speed, and Reaction timing. And I mean huge impact. If you have a low WPF it takes a while for your attack to happen after you click for it to happen.
High weight lowers your movement speed and WPF.
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Do you wear heavy armor? You'll be sluggish. Weight, agility, athletics and WPF has a lot to do with movement speed, attack speed, and Reaction timing. And I mean huge impact. If you have a low WPF it takes a while for your attack to happen after you click for it to happen.
High weight lowers your movement speed and WPF.
That's probably the reason. I didn't know weight was changed so that it affects WP, so hey ... Back to cloth and rags I guess :) Thanks for your time.
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I feel your pain. The best advice I can give you is to always hold a downward parry when approaching a great sword wielder, because at least 75% of the time they open with their pike-like thrust (why wouldn't they?).
Personally, I can't succeed with any polearms shorter than ~150 length, or I get cut down by all the great swords before I can close range. I use a great long bardiche, but it's slow as sin, so you might find better luck with the glaive or long hafted blade. The long hafted spiked mace is another favorite. It's a little shorter than the great swords, but its speed often makes up for that. Some very skilled players can succeed with the shorter polearms (esp. Bec and Great Long Axe), but you need cat-like reflexes combined with a cash surplus (for plate) to make it work. I don't see a point to the thrust polearms (spears/pikes), because the great swords are superior in every way.
In short, you have three options:
1. Respec to 2H like everyone else next gen
2. Get a long polearm and outreach the 2-hand users with relentless spam
3. Hone elite parrying skills
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...If so, you won't find a 2hander with less than 7 power strike. I think 8 and 9 is the average with 10 being very common. That is why you aren't getting even hit for hit kills.
That and the fact that you face plenty of triple heirloomed swords which is a significant upgrade to the standard stats vs. your k-mart bought polearm.
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It's been some time since I consider using 2h swords easymode, even for native. For me that's a reason NOT to respec a claymore maniac. I used to be able to match them with skill, but now I'm getting spanked badly for some reason :lol:.
Decided to use a great long axe, we'll see what happens next.
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The Great Long Axe is formidable indeed (high damage, relatively fast, and bonus vs shield), just remember that 2H sword users outreach you by about 15% (more like 65% when they thrust), so you generally need to parry one swing from a 2H-sword wielder before you can get a hit on them.
The best GLA users that I know of all wear plate and parry like pros. I recommended the longer polearms because you can generally open every engagement with a swing, rather than relying on your parry skills to start.
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From my experiences in c-rpg 2h and 2h polearm are by far the most efficient playstyles. It's so easy to rack up kills here even with a low level char, it's pretty bland. One reason for that is that compared to Native ranged in crpg is very weak, with a lower rate of fire, worse accuracy, less damage(archery) and low projectile speed(throwing). Shieldless people can roam freely in cRPG battle and only throwing puts a little bit of fear into their hearts at close distance. Different to that in a Native battle with some decent players a shield is pretty much a must for inf.
I also didn't notice a big difference in crpg 2h or 2h polearm performance. Both sides have their own advantages like a horse stopping thrust on the one and reach extending animations on the other but both ways share the massive potential damage output that allows to dispatch even a decently armored opponent with very few attacks. One of the most important criteria for a good battle performance in my opinion.
One notable difference between the 2h lobby and the polearm fraction is that the 2handers still whine about the allegedly OP ranged weapons, which is especially funny if they mention our cripple friend archery. I didn't hear such non-sense from the polearm guys yet.
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I don't understand how some people can argue that polearms have diversity while 2 handers have not.
Let's just face things like they are. We have fast polearms (LHB), long polearms (pike), hard-hitting polearms (maces) and everything in between.
Now let's investigate the 2 handers. Just take the German Greatsword and you got everything mentioned earlier, all advantages combined in one weapon.
Polearms need 2 or 3 weapons to be diverse, twohanders can face every melee enemy with only one.
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lol, who said that 2h doesn't have diversity?
Those long insta-stabbing swords actually work like pikes, that's one,
You can crush with hammers and bar maces, whatever, that's two,
You can knock people down with blunt weapons, that's three.
Also, there are some basic Anti-shield axes in 2h, the better Axes are Polearms.
But who needs an axe when you can just spam overheads and win?
In fact, 2h swords can do a LOT better than Pike users. Why? Because the lolsword duo is a Jolly Joker. Tell me one thing they can't do at least moderately. Can outspam you, outdamage you, outrange you, and instakill that horse, and the rider immediately.
Geez. If that's not diversity, I don't know what is.
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As a polearm user that plays siege exclusively, almost all of my deaths come from 2H swords. Huscarl/sidesword facehuggers are next, but at least I can generally avoid them if I don't want to die. Some teamwork breaks a Huscarl shield quickly anyway. With the exception of Goretooth/Wallace and a few other pros, I rarely see polearms dominating the battlefield.
The outrageous reach of the 2H sword stab makes about half of the polearms obsolete (all the spears/pikes), which should be enough reason to "adjust" them.
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Shieldless people can roam freely in cRPG battle and only throwing puts a little bit of fear into their hearts at close distance. Different to that in a Native battle with some decent players a shield is pretty much a must for inf.
Are ranged weapon going to be buffed in future?Just curious.
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Imagine if this was like Native, where 2h weapons have pretty much the same speed as 1h weapons.
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I don't think ranged is going to be buffed. Maybe a slight accuracy increase to compensate for the slot thingy and to make it more skill-based though. From my understanding the main reason why crossbows(speed, friction) and archery(damage type, speed, friction) got hit that hard in the past was Strategus. The main tactics revolved too much about ranged warfare there. Let's see how it works out now.
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As a polearm user that plays siege exclusively, almost all of my deaths come from 2H swords. Huscarl/sidesword facehuggers are next, but at least I can generally avoid them if I don't want to die. Some teamwork breaks a Huscarl shield quickly anyway. With the exception of Goretooth/Wallace and a few other pros, I rarely see polearms dominating the battlefield.
The outrageous reach of the 2H sword stab makes about half of the polearms obsolete (all the spears/pikes), which should be enough reason to "adjust" them.
One of the main benefits of using the ManCleaver exclusively as my 2h'd sword of choice. Slow, unbalanced, no broken and stupid 2h thrust. Noone can bitch legitimately when they're cleaved in twain by the manliest sword on the field. :mrgreen:
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Well with polearm u get lolstun so your enemy cant fight back and u have on most weapons anti turtle dmg. Along with that the knobbed mace and spiked mace are a beast only reason i went 2h instead of polearm on my current main was because i wanted to run around with my great lolhammer.
If i had to pick between the lolstab and the things stated above i would still prefer polearms.
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I don't think most polearm users are attached to the stun mechanic. Personally, I'd trade stun for the missing 22 length any day.
I don't get upset when I'm killed by a cleaver/flamberge/maul/hammer/etc, because these are all powerful weapons with substantial drawbacks. The great swords have no drawbacks.
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You can't really base your argument on the polearm stun. Knockdown is ten thousand times more powerfull and nobody complains about it.
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I don't think most polearm users are attached to the stun mechanic. Personally, I'd trade stun for the missing 22 length any day.
I don't get upset when I'm killed by a cleaver/flamberge/maul/hammer/etc, because these are all powerful weapons with substantial drawbacks. The great swords have no drawbacks.
Hmn i dont rly agree when i play my shielder i piss my pants when i confront polearm users since they wreck my steel shield to near uselessness in a matter of sec while i can very easy get rid of a greatsword user because he will never brake my shield.
Btw i dont use 2h swords myself but i cant rly see a reason to pick 2h for people if they didnt have the lolstabs ill bet u 100$ that if they removed lolstab they would all go polearm leaving 2h to people with mauls since they will also rightfully so remove the crush on long iron mace and bar mace btw when they remove the spinning thrust the lolstab will be a joke anyways so i see no reason to whine hehe
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Yes i guess if lolstab is removed/ animations of 2h are corrected there will be no further point in not using polearms.
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I am currently going with a polearm build, and loving every minute of it. The reason I close polearms over the supposedly OP two-handers is the versatility. High-end Two Handers basically have cut damage and the ones with blunt/pierce really dont fit my style. I love killing tin cans, so I grab my trusty bec de corbin and can take out most tin cans in 2 -3 hits. The pierce damage really helps. I never really have a problem being outreached either. I guess my studded leather coat is light enough that I can stay in range most of the time. On top of that, put a few points into horse and you can secondary as a lancer no problem, as the wpf is already there. Grab a pike, and you are the best melee support in the game. Sure, two-handers have insane range and speed and can lolstab, but all that can be countered by blocking and getting up close and personal.
So to all you polearm users out there, do not give up hope, polearms are still very effective IMO.
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I don't think polearms were ever underpowered. Just look at all the top players with mw becs. Its basically a faster stronger longer morning star with no unbalancing but no bonus against shield. Pikes are just a pain in the ass (literally) as they poke you while a shielder runs up all in your face. Also you may want to look into polearms for your later gen weapons because they scale better than 2hs when heirlooming. LHB ends up 153l 95sp 44c 22p which is better than any 2h at under 1/2 of the price.
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i hate the great swords, all of them have higher or equal thrust damage than the pole arms i own... i honest fear a great sword user more so than any pole arm user due to most "pikemen" have 1 wpf n its a "oh-no-horse" weapon in there minds. I normally die from one thrust of a great sword when they hit me first as cavalry
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Just look at all the top players with mw becs. Its basically a faster stronger longer morning star with no unbalancing but no bonus against shield.
Just clarifying, bec doesn't have more reach than the morning star except for an extended thrust.
Animations, animations, animations.
People use the bec for high pierce dmg accompanied by pole stun. They are OK with the really low effective reach since that way it will rarely glance.
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i have tried polearms and 2h quite a but and both are awsome.
I feel 2h is a bit more powerful for mass killing but polearms have more variety.
personally I like the feel of polearms more. the cav stopping ability is really nice and there are quite a few good polearms with blunt and pierce damage and good speed. 2h swords seem to be better for 1 on 1 dueling than any polearms. this is mostly due to the animations and not the stats the 2h animations are more sublte and less deliberate than the polearms. with polearms you can get the stun effect which is effective against inexperienced players.
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You can't really base your argument on the polearm stun. Knockdown is ten thousand times more powerfull and nobody complains about it.
Long Hafted Spiked Mace has polearm stun, speed, length, damage, and knockdown.
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The glave is always good... :shock:
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Just clarifying, bec doesn't have more reach than the morning star except for an extended thrust.
Animations, animations, animations.
People use the bec for high pierce dmg accompanied by pole stun. They are OK with the really low effective reach since that way it will rarely glance.
Bec de Corbin
weapon length 120
Morningstar
weapon length 82
Just clarifying, you are talking about things you dont know.
No way Morningstar has equal reach to any Bec-Swing. No way.
Dont tell shit.
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Stats are a lie
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Stats are a lie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jBiosg1x4&feature=player_detailpage#t=2s
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jBiosg1x4&feature=player_detailpage#t=2s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I)
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Bec de Corbin
weapon length 120
Morningstar
weapon length 82
Just clarifying, you are talking about things you dont know.
No way Morningstar has equal reach to any Bec-Swing. No way.
Dont tell shit.
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,118906.0.html
1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61
2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80 (new animation makes this outdated)
2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19
1h Polearms
Thrust = +50
Morningstar indeed isn't as long as bec on every strike. Despite it do keep in mind that 2h get some extra speed due to the animation and bec is also about 3000 gold more.
*NOTE* NOT saying OP or UP about either weapon.