cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Patoson on November 06, 2012, 04:45:22 pm

Title: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Patoson on November 06, 2012, 04:45:22 pm
I own a lordly helmet, but many people have told me that it is quite useless, since headshots deal a lot of damage anyway.

Is it still useful against melee weapons? I'd like to hear the opinions of people who own one, to know if it's really useful or not.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Gurnisson on November 06, 2012, 04:57:20 pm
Is it still useful against melee weapons?

Yes, it helps quite a bit in melee, especially against one-handers. It also helps a lot against weaker projectiles throwing weapons like javs and war darts, against the weaker xbows and against cut arrows. Still, it's not what one should loom first, because you don't always need extra head armor. :wink:
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: oprah_winfrey on November 06, 2012, 04:59:47 pm
It is less useful then body armor or gloves, and more useful then boots. Also, it is more useful for melee then against ranged, since you will probably be dead anyway.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Torben on November 06, 2012, 05:05:27 pm
to withstand headshots of greater weapons,  loomed plate helmets are needed for the average char.

first armor to loom should be hand,  also because you can get any other armor for them via trade,  head armor tends to be special because it alters you look a lot,  so you need just THAT helmet to get this n that trade out of it.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: oprah_winfrey on November 06, 2012, 05:10:42 pm
The biggest problem with having a loomed helmet is if you change your mind about what helmet you want/change your armor style. Trading away a helmet for another specific helmet is not the easiest thing.

Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Patoson on November 06, 2012, 05:14:48 pm
Thanks for the replies!

Here's my setup: +3 head, body, hands, Danish GS and Barmace.

I want to trade the Barmace for another weapon. And then I'm wondering whether I should trade the helmet for another weapon or not. I'm not going to retire anymore or buy more looms (can't afford it).

What would you do in my situation?
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Torben on November 06, 2012, 05:23:40 pm
Thanks for the replies!

Here's my setup: +3 head, body, hands, Danish GS and Barmace.

I want to trade the Barmace for another weapon. And then I'm wondering whether I should trade the helmet for another weapon or not. I'm not going to retire anymore or buy more looms (can't afford it).

What would you do in my situation?


well,  weapons are the fun part in crpg imo,  I didnt have any loomed armor for the longest time, only two weapons,  and I did well,  and had a lot of fun.  also:  doing helmet for weapon,  you can ask for gold on top.  keep that gold,  and if you should want to get a helmet again some time,  put gold on top of the weapon and geht the helmet back.

but if I would have to choose,  I would rather have two weapons I frequently use
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Zanze on November 06, 2012, 08:18:03 pm
A +3 Helmet or Boots are both very useful. The entire philosophy of helmets and boots being useless is one of the reason over 80% of my hits are either leg shots or head shots. Everyone has their loomed body and gloves with upwards 70 armor, but only wear 50-60 armor helmets and about 20-30 armor boots.

Just silly how many people I see in transitional+ and wearing leather boots.

NH_Turboflex did a test on the difference between a Lordly Warlord Helmet vs Non. Longbow + Bodkin to face without loom = 50% hp (24 str/ 7IF)
Longbow to face with loom = 30%.


Coincidentally those numbers look very similar to what you would get for body/gloves...

But hey, if you want to listen to everyone elses helmet/boots suck, I'll enjoy playing tic tac toe with your eyes and knees.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Torben on November 06, 2012, 08:21:47 pm
A +3 Helmet or Boots are both very useful. The entire philosophy of helmets and boots being useless is one of the reason over 80% of my hits are either leg shots or head shots. Everyone has their loomed body and gloves with upwards 70 armor, but only wear 50-60 armor helmets and about 40-50 armor boots.

Just silly how many people I see in transitional+ and wearing leather boots.

NH_Turboflex did a test on the difference between a Lordly Warlord Helmet vs Non. Longbow + Bodkin to face without loom = 50% hp (24 str/ 7IF)
Longbow to face with loom = 30%.


Coincidentally those numbers look very similar to what you would get for body/gloves...

But hey, if you want to listen to everyone elses helmet/boots suck, I'll enjoy playing tic tac toe with your eyes and knees.

I concur about the usefulness of loomed helmets,  just see weapons as actively upping the fun factor more : )

about boots:  first:  your loom level of body armor already adds +x to leg armor,  AND  damage to legs is 80%,  passively "adding" to leg armor by decreasing incoming damage.  so nah,  dont see them toooo important,  althou i often go for legs as well,  specially cav guys
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Zanze on November 06, 2012, 08:25:08 pm
I concur about the usefulness of loomed helmets,  just see weapons as actively upping the fun factor more : )

about boots:  first:  your loom level of body armor already adds +x to leg armor,  AND  damage to legs is 80%,  passively "adding" to leg armor by decreasing incoming damage.  so nah,  dont see them toooo important,  althou i often go for legs as well,  specially cav guys

Even with the -20% damage, having 40 armor to your legs and 60-70 armor in your body is still a pretty easy choice for me. =D
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Uumdi on November 06, 2012, 08:45:27 pm
Its usefulness comes and goes, but you'll thank your lucky stars when it happens.  Especially after the heavy lance nerf, it often makes the difference between life and death now, since they hit at head level a lot of the time. 

+3 Fluted Varangian has left me blackbarred more times than I can count, and when you can back away from a poor choice in melee engagement after being overheaded by a poleaxe, you have faith that it was a good choice.

If you're thinking about weapons, you could try ranged.  Crossbows are versatile heirlooms that work especially well with 2H builds.  Throwing, archery, and cav are options too, but you really need to invest your build in them.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: oprah_winfrey on November 06, 2012, 09:58:53 pm
Its usefulness comes and goes, but you'll thank your lucky stars when it happens.

I remember someone in ATS asking Dan if head/leg (don't remember which) was useful. His response was something along the lines of Only when you get hit in the head/legs.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Digglez on November 06, 2012, 11:17:26 pm
My survivability increased significantly when I made the jump for 40 to 48 armor helm, then heirloomed it to 53 armor.  You'd be surprised the amount of times you get hit in your head.  Also, the logic behind ' you take more damage from headshots so its useless' is completely stupid.  If anything, that makes head armor MORE important, so you dont take gigantic hits for chunks of your life.

I dont know how Warband calculates damage, but in other RPG's, armor is applied BEFORE damage is done. so having armor in critical areas that take increased damage is vitally important.

The moral of the story is, you shouldnt skimp on other areas of your armor, they should all be roughly equal in value
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Teeth on November 07, 2012, 12:27:08 am
You can get higher head armor easily anyway for not that much weight and money increase. For example:

Getting the equivalent of 3 loom levels worth in head armor from a Guard Helmet, which would be a Vaegir War Mask would give me 0.5 weight more and give a 1.7k gold price increase.

0.5 weight, 1.7k, that is not worth giving up 3 loompoints and being stuck with one helmet.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: San on November 07, 2012, 04:21:28 am
Top head armor, medium body armor is a winning combination for movement speed, cost, and durability. You become immune to 1shots that way. I definitely recommend after your body armor and weapon.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Pentecost on November 07, 2012, 06:19:02 am
I own a lordly helmet, but many people have told me that it is quite useless, since headshots deal a lot of damage anyway.

I'm not sure of what train of reasoning those people used to arrive at that conclusion. It's precisely because getting hit in the head does so much damage that a good helmet is extremely useful. You just need to find one that protects your head adequately and doesn't reduce your wpf too much in the process. I consider any of the ones between 2 and 2.5 weight to be ideal in this respect (the fact that this weight range also has a good variety of helmet styles is also a plus), although that's just me.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: oprah_winfrey on November 07, 2012, 06:41:22 am
You can get higher head armor easily anyway for not that much weight and money increase. For example:

Getting the equivalent of 3 loom levels worth in head armor from a Guard Helmet, which would be a Vaegir War Mask would give me 0.5 weight more and give a 1.7k gold price increase.

0.5 weight, 1.7k, that is not worth giving up 3 loompoints and being stuck with one helmet.

That is why I have two lordly helmets...
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Tindel on November 07, 2012, 10:06:13 pm
I have a lordly helm, 63 head armor makes a big difference. I keep trying to play with some cheap lowarmor helm, and i get raging when i take hits to the head.

Also, its well worth it to wear proper boots, if you are dead you cant help the team now can you?
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Templar_Steevee on November 08, 2012, 02:53:18 pm
In my opinion +3 helmet is a good option, doeasn't matter are you an archer or melee. It helps you to survive a lot more :)
And if you have a heavy +3 helmet and str bulit you can survive a headshot even from +3 longbow and +3 tatar arrows (it's stue, I'm using this equipment and sometimes some guys survive hit in head, but SOMETIMES or hardly ever :P)
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Vibe on November 08, 2012, 02:56:52 pm
Lordly Head Armor = good versus 1h
Lordly Boots = good versus ranged that often hit you in the legpart or as a cav
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Grumbs on November 09, 2012, 03:20:01 pm
I would only get helmet after gloves/body and you have all the weapons you want. If you need more head armour you can just wear a more expensive one without much downside (+5 hear armour will net you a small weight/wpf/gold penalty, not really much to worry about imo). So unless you're using one of the top tier helmets already, just put on a better helm and have an extra +3 weapon option. If you have lots of looms already then grab a +3 helmet and you can have lower weight/gold costs. The most useful ones to loom are probably top tier though
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Mlekce on November 09, 2012, 03:27:20 pm
I sold mine lordly guard helmet when ave emperor hit me with his Nordic champ sword in the head and took me 99% of health.I had 6 or 7 iron flesh then.
I was so mad,because it doesn't rely matter how much armor u have when there is bonus on head hits.
Actually it matters a bit but you need to have over 55 head armor to make a difference.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Digglez on November 09, 2012, 06:17:37 pm
I sold mine lordly guard helmet when ave emperor hit me with his Nordic champ sword in the head and took me 99% of health.I had 6 or 7 iron flesh then.
I was so mad,because it doesn't rely matter how much armor u have when there is bonus on head hits.
Actually it matters a bit but you need to have over 55 head armor to make a difference.

so now instead of taking 2 hits, you take 1 hit.  you are a genius! 
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 09, 2012, 07:09:22 pm
so now instead of taking 2 hits, you take 1 hit.  you are a genius!

Yeah I always thought that was the point of wearing a decent helmet, so instead of being killed in one hit, you have a chance to survive.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Tindel on November 09, 2012, 07:39:48 pm
guard helmet is 47 base, its a lowarmor helm. Get a 55+
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Teeth on November 09, 2012, 07:52:59 pm
guard helmet is 47 base, its a lowarmor helm. Get a 55+
I ain't no HRE platecrutcher.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: TurmoilTom on November 09, 2012, 07:53:11 pm
lol @ Mlekce. ~Get Diggled on~
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: FrugFrug on November 09, 2012, 08:03:53 pm
Still, it's not what one should loom first

Pff, I loomed my straw hat first and I don't regret it.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: TurmoilTom on November 09, 2012, 08:18:53 pm
Pff, I loomed my straw hat first and I don't regret it.

It is, in fact, the best heirloom.

Style points, man, style points.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Jarlek on November 09, 2012, 10:14:23 pm
guard helmet is 47 base, its a lowarmor helm. Get a 55+
47 armour is low armour.

HRE: Platecrutching since 962 AD.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Mlekce on November 10, 2012, 12:14:52 am
so now instead of taking 2 hits, you take 1 hit.  you are a genius!
it is low protection genius.
You will die the same with loomed or not loomed guard helmet. instead of loosing 99% if health u will loose 87% what a save of health,this must worth spending 1 200 000 gold on it.
I am glad u grinded 3 gens to loom some shit that you can buy on market not loomed and get even better protection for 100 gold more upkeep.
Upkeep on boots and head armor is so low that makes them stupid to loom when you can buy a ordinary item with better stats. Only sense to loom this is to save weight or because of style.
You have big bonuses for leg and head hits,so 3 or 5 more armor will mean nothing when 51 cut axe with 7ps hit u in leg or in the head.
You will die in one hit even in lordly guard helmet.
You can only loom armors close to 60 base armor  and then make them closer to 70 because on 80 armor every cut weapon will bounce,so if you have over 60 armor more chances that some weapons will glance. looming less then 57 base protection helmets is just waste of looms.
Instead -  my posts and calling me genius you cold sometimes respect the fact that others may not share your opinion about something.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Digglez on November 10, 2012, 01:38:46 am
it is low protection genius.
You will die the same with loomed or not loomed guard helmet. instead of loosing 99% if health u will loose 87% what a save of health,this must worth spending 1 200 000 gold on it.
I am glad u grinded 3 gens to loom some shit that you can buy on market not loomed and get even better protection for 100 gold more upkeep.
Upkeep on boots and head armor is so low that makes them stupid to loom when you can buy a ordinary item with better stats. Only sense to loom this is to save weight or because of style.
You have big bonuses for leg and head hits,so 3 or 5 more armor will mean nothing when 51 cut axe with 7ps hit u in leg or in the head.
You will die in one hit even in lordly guard helmet.
You can only loom armors close to 60 base armor  and then make them closer to 70 because on 80 armor every cut weapon will bounce,so if you have over 60 armor more chances that some weapons will glance. looming less then 57 base protection helmets is just waste of looms.
Instead -  my posts and calling me genius you cold sometimes respect the fact that others may not share your opinion about something.

ya I could wear a higher armor helm (just like you could) but I adhere to a theme that I enjoy and challenges me.  I'm not the one who is spouting stupid illogical shit on the forums that flys in the face of common sense.  If you've already heirloomed gloves & body armor, helmet or shield is next if you are concerned about survivability.  Saying otherwise is stupidity.

Oh and most players arent going to be taking over half their health from a headshot when wearing 50 armor helm, yet another hole in your arguments.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Zanze on November 10, 2012, 03:45:37 am
Mlekce, not to bother or anything...but if you are left with 1% of your health after getting headshotted with your +3 helmet, by removing that +3 helmet aren't you getting 1 shotted instead of 2?
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Tindel on November 10, 2012, 10:13:51 am
I ain't no HRE platecrutcher.

bitch please, you usually use heavier than me
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Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Teeth on November 10, 2012, 11:56:54 am
bitch please, you usually use heavier than me
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I know I am a platecrutcher, but if a guard helmet is considered a low armour helmet than HRE platecrutching seems to be quite a different league.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Mlekce on November 10, 2012, 12:05:41 pm
Mlekce, not to bother or anything...but if you are left with 1% of your health after getting headshotted with your +3 helmet, by removing that +3 helmet aren't you getting 1 shotted instead of 2?
It doesn't worth spending 3 loompoints on it.
It depends on weapon that hit you in the head and speed bonus. You will die the same with loomed and not loomed helmet if
warhammer or great bardiche hit you in the head and you would survive few hits with weak weapons with ordinary helmet.
Bolt in the head will kill you no matter what helmet you have,there is maybe 2 guys in whole crpg that can take 2 bolts.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Tindel on November 10, 2012, 01:24:23 pm
HRE doesnt plate crutch, we got a few members who occasionally use transitional or heavier.
Im one of the few with a decent helm, this is my personal opinion. I actually wear banded which is mail xD


I often aim for peoples heads, because everyone wears bad helms and ofc the 20% extra.  Its like the whole boot discussion,  slash a guy in his leather boots and watch him drop.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Zanze on November 10, 2012, 06:10:44 pm
It doesn't worth spending 3 loompoints on it.
It depends on weapon that hit you in the head and speed bonus. You will die the same with loomed and not loomed helmet if
warhammer or great bardiche hit you in the head and you would survive few hits with weak weapons with ordinary helmet.
Bolt in the head will kill you no matter what helmet you have,there is maybe 2 guys in whole crpg that can take 2 bolts.

I wouldn't bother with looming any piece of armor if that is your philosophy. You can still get 1 or 2 shotted by body hits, leg hits, any hits. You just gave an example where your loomed helmet saved your life against one of the top tier weapons available to 1hs, and are now arguing how useless that helmet was.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Mlekce on November 10, 2012, 10:15:24 pm
Body hits doesn't get a bonus dmg for hit,and it really pay off to loom it.
I actually feel the difference between loomed and not loomed body armor.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Tzar on November 11, 2012, 10:22:27 am
Head armor looms is pointless unless your dying to use one of the below 40 armor helmets.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: BlindGuy on November 11, 2012, 11:34:21 am
my loomed helmets have saved me time after time from being headshot by longrange shit. At close range, true, you will probably still die, but catching an unlucky arrow across the map at round start and having to wait up to 5 mins to play again because you didnt have a nice loomed helmet is a bad trade off. I would loom, if I started today again: Gloves, Helmet, Body, Horse or weapon then boots. Unless of course you are a ranger, in which case, Weapon, ammo, gloves, sidearm, head, body, boots.

But having said that, i regularly play unarmoured because I like that feeling, one mistake and Im brown bread, and I often play with random weapons and armour, no looms, cause tbh, if you cannot play without looms you wont be able to play with them, they arent so Uber Win.

Ultimately: style > effectiveness. Loom what you think looks cool. I have loomed Leather Armour, shortsword, I had throwing daggers and javelins. Currently Im looking to loom a Round Cav shield, cause its so cute and small.



GAMEPLAY aside: look at history, when you see the earliest pictures of men at arms and archers, they dont all have maille on, but they all have a nice bascinet on their heads: Protect the head, its where you keep your most powerful weapon, the brain.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Rebelyell on November 11, 2012, 02:30:32 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


ah helmets
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Phew on November 14, 2012, 03:35:25 pm
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ah helmets

/thread
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Rebelyell on November 14, 2012, 09:28:37 pm
Good helmet is an key
you never want to die from 1 hit or dagger in face
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Rage_Guy on November 16, 2012, 09:30:42 pm
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ah helmets
:!: :!: :!:
That pic must be fake!
 :shock:
That lance was probably stuck in the ground, you posed your character, so it looks like a lance in his face, WITH NO BLOOD!
(click to show/hide)
And look, you cut out the health bar from the image!!!
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Rebelyell on November 16, 2012, 10:51:16 pm
nah thats true story ask my clanmates ,anyway lot of peps saw that

27 12 with 8 IF

I had like 0 hp left after throw, and some saracen guy made that pic.
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Trikipum on November 20, 2012, 02:21:07 am
lies, range weapons dont stick if they dont kill you when they hit you in the head.... lies lies lies....
Title: Re: The use of a lordly helmet
Post by: Zanze on November 20, 2012, 05:56:28 am
lies, range weapons dont stick if they dont kill you when they hit you in the head.... lies lies lies....

If they leave you with less than ~10% health or less they do.