cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Corsair831 on November 05, 2012, 10:31:34 am

Title: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on November 05, 2012, 10:31:34 am
Hi, could you please for the love of god remove chambering from EU_1.

I know that in duels between highly skilled players, chambers are used as a skilled and practiced move, so fine, keep it on EU_3 ... but i would wager good money that at least 95% of chambers on EU_1 are complete accidents which do nothing but aid spammers in their happy go lucky spam.

Should the game be about skill, or spam?
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: [ptx] on November 05, 2012, 10:32:22 am
Skill.

Do not touch chamberblocking.

You must be new here.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Torak on November 05, 2012, 10:34:02 am
Its something that is hard coded it cant be done, and are you fucking kidding me?
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 05, 2012, 10:34:17 am
Even I can deliberately chamber overheads (the other three directions I'm still shaky on), please don't remove it.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on November 05, 2012, 10:34:47 am
Skill.

Do not touch chamberblocking.

You must be new here.

been playing since march 2010, experienced dueller, not new.

I can chamber very well, i know it has a great place in duels, but on EU_1 the VAST VAST majority of chambers are pure luck through spam. Where is the "Skill" in that?
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: BASNAK on November 05, 2012, 10:36:11 am
been playing since march 2010, experienced dueller, not new.

I can chamber very well, i know it has a great place in duels, but on EU_1 the VAST VAST majority of chambers are pure luck through spam. Where is the "Skill" in that?

Spammers need love too!
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: [ptx] on November 05, 2012, 10:36:34 am
been playing since march 2010, experienced dueller, not new.

I can chamber very well, i know it has a great place in duels, but on EU_1 the VAST VAST majority of chambers are pure luck through spam. Where is the "Skill" in that?
what.

You must be newb here.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on November 05, 2012, 10:37:40 am
what.

You must be newb here.

whatever guy, you can't deny that the huge overwhelming majority of chambers are luck though ...

... and what's the point in having a random luck block that aids spammers ?
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 05, 2012, 10:38:12 am
I think it aids those skilled players far more, and allows a skilled VS skilled duel to be more interesting.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on November 05, 2012, 10:42:20 am
I think it aids those skilled players far more, and allows a skilled VS skilled duel to be more interesting.

exactly why i'm saying keep it on the duel server but remove it from eu1
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Son Of Odin on November 05, 2012, 10:42:37 am
The solution:

Nerf 1h. Nuffen said.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Moncho on November 05, 2012, 10:49:12 am
What about an end round duel between two very good players? Do we really want a draw so badly?
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Thovex on November 05, 2012, 10:50:15 am
exactly why i'm saying keep it on the duel server but remove it from eu1

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Why for the love of god would you want to make combat take even longer?  :(
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Vibe on November 05, 2012, 10:53:19 am
let's reduce all weapon speed by 70% so we keep the game skill based and not spam based
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on November 05, 2012, 10:55:35 am
let's reduce all weapon speed by 70% so we keep the game skill based and not spam based

well actually, that would increase the level of spam in the game, so no thx

the reason there's so much spam in crpg in the first place is because the game speed is too slow (meaning stuff is super super easy to block) and there's too much armour ... increase game speed, remove chambering, gg, game made better.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Vibe on November 05, 2012, 10:56:51 am
well actually, that would increase the level of spam in the game, so no thx

the reason there's so much spam in crpg in the first place is because the game speed is too slow and there's too much armour ... increase game speed, remove chambering, gg, game made better.

because chambering is about spamming lol?
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on November 05, 2012, 11:00:18 am
because chambering is about spamming lol?

i think you're completely missing my point here, skillfull chambers happen, yes, but they account for like 5% of the chambers which occur on the server ... what's the point in keeping something that's 95% spam & luck based?
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: [ptx] on November 05, 2012, 11:01:27 am
I've also heard that 97% of your statistics are 100% bull.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Osiris on November 05, 2012, 11:02:23 am
because its a battle not a series of duels. crazy things happen by mistake. archers shoot with big crosshairs and get a lucky headshot remove them too? people jump throw and get some insanely lucky headshots etc. Luck is a massive part of battles
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: IR_Kuoin on November 05, 2012, 11:02:47 am
Don't remove chamber, its the only thing that makes me look good  :cry:
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Vibe on November 05, 2012, 11:05:20 am
i think you're completely missing my point here, skillfull chambers happen, yes, but they account for like 5% of the chambers which occur on the server ... what's the point in keeping something that's 95% spam & luck based?

so because sometimes and by sometimes I mean almost never, someone gets lucky with a chamber you want to remove it completely from the game making the combat even more dull

you would be an awesome game designer bro
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on November 05, 2012, 11:09:03 am
so because sometimes and by sometimes I mean almost never, someone gets lucky with a chamber you want to remove it completely from the game making the combat even more dull

you would be an awesome game designer bro

i just think games should be about skill more than luck ... guess the crpg community likes their luck.


Well keep crossing your fingers whilst you blindly spam boys and girls, you might get a lucky chamber ! :)
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Torben on November 05, 2012, 11:12:59 am
i just think games should be about skill more than luck ... guess the crpg community likes their luck.


Well keep crossing your fingers whilst you blindly spam boys and girls, you might get a lucky chamber ! :)

chambering lance attacks,  soon to be chambering couched lances...  rly want to keep that : (
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Pentecost on November 05, 2012, 11:18:38 am
This guy makes all of the shielders who actually learned how to fight against agility two-handers look bad. Please ignore what he is saying entirely and don't take his opinions as being representative of other people who use one-handed weapons.

Also, take a look at his posting history if you want a laugh.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Vibe on November 05, 2012, 11:19:26 am
i just think games should be about skill more than luck ...

by removing a mechanic that takes skill and is rarely a luck factor
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Huey Newton on November 05, 2012, 11:26:01 am
Good players can either block or re-chamber chambers, regardless of them being accidental or purposeful
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: NuberT on November 05, 2012, 11:27:43 am
i think you're completely missing my point here, skillfull chambers happen, yes, but they account for like 5% of the chambers which occur on the server ... what's the point in keeping something that's 95% spam & luck based?

it's probably the exact contrary.. boi go play with ya lego bricks
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: rufio on November 05, 2012, 11:28:44 am
remove chambering , and remove kicks, also make shields way stronger and faster than they are atm. also make lightest tier armors way stronger, and make 1 handed swings faster, specially the left one.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on November 05, 2012, 11:33:55 am
whatever noobs
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Plavor on November 05, 2012, 11:38:45 am
Fuck you corsair  :(

Basically, my whole playstyle relies on chambering / chamberblocking.

If people are chambering by accident or spam, just block them


You mad bro
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Idzo on November 05, 2012, 11:40:15 am
Well happens to me quite often and it's rly annoying but i'm not sure would it be good idea to completely remove it.


remove chambering , and remove kicks, also make shields way stronger and faster than they are atm. also make lightest tier armors way stronger, and make 1 handed swings faster, specially the left one.

I understand your irony but stop eating grass bro, it's bad for your health!  :P
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Joseph Porta on November 05, 2012, 11:48:02 am
i agree with your statement but your suggestion is bullshit. :P

Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Bjord on November 05, 2012, 12:25:02 pm
OP is a baddie and a retard.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Miwiw on November 05, 2012, 12:35:54 pm
I prefer to die to a chamber, rather than to an arrow, a bolt, a couched lance or whatever else... it is often quite funny when you know "OH, but THAT wasn't what he INTENDED!! XD"...  :lol:
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Malaclypse on November 05, 2012, 12:43:56 pm
i think you're completely missing my point here, skillfull chambers happen, yes, but they account for like 5% of the chambers which occur on the server ... what's the point in keeping something that's 95% spam & luck based?

Like most statistics, you pulled these numbers right out of your ass man. As Plavor said, if people are chambering you, even if it's an accident or lucky chamber on their part: block it! Not that hard.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Kafein on November 05, 2012, 05:04:41 pm
Like most statistics, you pulled these numbers right out of your ass man. As Plavor said, if people are chambering you, even if it's an accident or lucky chamber on their part: block it! Not that hard.

Depends. Doing a stab and getting chambered can be lethal if you have a shield. The longer stun + the shield speed can make you unable to block in time. Anyway, keep chamberblocking. Spamming long/heavy weapons should be penalized somehow, but not like that.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: NuberT on November 05, 2012, 06:27:28 pm
Depends. Doing a stab and getting chambered can be lethal if you have a shield. The longer stun + the shield speed can make you unable to block in time. Anyway, keep chamberblocking. Spamming long/heavy weapons should be penalized somehow, but not like that.
It should actually be harder to block a successfull chamberblock, especially for a hoplite.. Risk vs. reward is a joke for that example.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Darkkarma on November 05, 2012, 06:44:21 pm
Combat is boring and watered down enough as it is.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: IR_Kuoin on November 05, 2012, 06:48:56 pm
Combat is boring and watered down enough as it is.

Please tell me how.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Darkkarma on November 05, 2012, 07:59:22 pm
Please tell me how.

Im not going to speculate what things are like on EU's end, but here two competent blockers can literally get locked in block duels for quite some time. I can probably count on one hand the amount of players that have competent enough footwork to maneuver swings around blocks, but maybe that's an NA problem? There is little to no incentive to take risks as most of the time chambers can be quite easily blocked as it is. Why would anyone want to remove that? With Overheads and turn speed in general dramatically decreased, pole stagger removed and many other things changed, alot of the wild, variable aspects that melee so fun and appealing to me in Native are gone/changed into something entirely different.

Chambers can change the entire rhythm and outcome of a fight sometimes and it really is one of the last great examples of it's kind when it comes to things that can abruptly alter the outcome of a melee fight. Now is that to say that there still can't be some great duels making use of advanced techniques in crpg? Of course not, but such techniques have to be supplemented with a high level of skill to even be made possible and more often than not come from players who have spent/still do spend a great deal of time practicing in native and are anything but frequent on our end. I can literally only name a couple of few players here in NA that I can honestly say, "yeah he'd mop the floor with me even in a much more level setting like native."

Gone are the days of being able to walk through three or four guys with relative ease in battle simply due to them not having quick reflexes. The slow combat speed has made even some of the greenest of players into semi-competent blockers. As an arbalest user I actually prefer running and re grouping with team mates when 2 or 3 guys run at me now as opposed to going into melee with my one hander side arm and testing whether or not they really know what they are doing with that huge pole arm or sword on their backs the way I used to be able to. The various speed changes in combat have made even sub-par fighters competent blockers. Now if the devs had this in mind when they implemented such changes then hats off to them, as they've certainly done their jobs.

I'm not advocating switching everything to native standards; hell, this is still the most fun i've ever had playing a mod and there is a reason im playing it over native to this day, But if you don't think that crpg's melee combat has become much more simplistic over time then we're going to have to agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Bjord on November 05, 2012, 08:12:54 pm
I can understand your frustration, Karma, but I can't really say I can relate 100%. In duel, sure, there are some guys that just bore me out of my eyes due to blocking everything. Can't really do much except be as intense as possible with feints, chambers, range traps, hilt slashes etc etc and wear them down with patience.

In battle however, everything are split-second dependant. One bad move and you get hit, or even die. But I find it to be a more exciting environment than any other game mode.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on October 19, 2014, 02:14:43 pm
bump, remove chambering new patch 2k14 gogo
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Tydeus on October 19, 2014, 02:42:56 pm
bump, remove chambering new patch 2k14 gogo
Here, have another -1 for what was, and of course still is, a terrible idea.

 :P
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Switchtense on October 19, 2014, 02:52:38 pm
bump, remove chambering new patch 2k14 gogo

At least find a way to remove lucky chambers :D
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Rebelyell on October 19, 2014, 02:52:52 pm
OP is a baddie and a retard.

(click to show/hide)
yep
Noob
noobs never change


edit: seriously now
If you find yourself fail to chambers you are just shit player, After so long time you should be able to block them.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Kafein on October 19, 2014, 02:53:18 pm
While I think that removing chamberblocking is a stupid idea, I think Corsair's concern about random chamberblocks is valid.

The mod is balanced around the fact that survivability is much higher than in Native hence the existence of some bullshit stuff is forgiven because it is rare and thus rarely kills people. However it doesn't make the bullshit any smaller or a fix less important. I'm talking in general, not on the specific issue of random chamberblocks here.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: BlindGuy on October 19, 2014, 03:00:43 pm
No, you get chambered a lot because you try to spam Corsair, stop trying to spam multiple attacks at people, and wait your fucking turn, and you wont get killed so much by chambers. /thread
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Rebelyell on October 19, 2014, 03:03:42 pm
There is no difference in lucky and intended chambers for you, If someone chamber you intentionally or not and you fail to it just gets better.
And how lucky chambers can be a thing???
We all can agree that Crpg is heavily skill centred game.... right?
There is multiple options to avoid chambers.

Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Tydeus on October 19, 2014, 03:04:38 pm
At least find a way to remove lucky chambers :D
Thats a request for TW.

There is no difference in lucky and intended chambers for you, If someone chamber you intentionally or not and you fail to it just gets better.
This. Both intended and unintended will be perceived the same.

I understand the frustration when you think someone's chamber block was an accident. That grants absolutely no reason to actually remove what is for a lot of players, an extremely enjoyable gameplay mechanic, though.

This request is ridiculous because it's so much more (technically speaking) difficult to fix. I'm not really certain how you could even go about addressing this, assuming you were able to change as much hardcoded stuff as you wanted. You'd have to completely change the why chambers work to begin with. As for any new ways to possibly implement chambers, it's equally as likely that they'd come with just as much "baggage" as the current system.

Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on October 19, 2014, 03:06:01 pm
No, you get chambered a lot because you try to spam Corsair, stop trying to spam multiple attacks at people, and wait your fucking turn, and you wont get killed so much by chambers. /thread

i get chambered precisely because i don't spam. people who spam me often get lucky and chamber (people who are absolutely terrible and you can't imagine they even know how to chamber). i almost never chamber through luck, because i rarely ever spam.

the problem with when people chamber through luck is a lot of the time it's a lot quicker than when people chamber through skill, and often is impossible to predict, thus they get a free hit from doing so.

to clarify, i'm saying remove luck chambers not skill chambers .. go go devs, figure out how to do this :D
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on October 19, 2014, 03:08:27 pm
Thats a request for TW.
This. Both intended and unintended will be perceived the same.

I understand the frustration when you think someone's chamber block was an accident. That grants absolutely no reason to actually remove what is for a lot of players, an extremely enjoyable gameplay mechanic, though.

This request is ridiculous because it's so much more (technically speaking) difficult to fix. I'm not really certain how you could even go about addressing this, assuming you were able to change as much hardcoded stuff as you wanted. You'd have to completely change the why chambers work to begin with. As for any new ways to possibly implement chambers, it's equally as likely that they'd come with just as much "baggage" as the current system.

put in a button which makes people walk/move slower when they press it. you have to be pressing this button to chamber.
this means those guys who are running around spamming relying on armour glance/animation glitch/luck chamber will be less inclined to press it because they need to move fast for their nabspam, whilst people who are actually trying to chamber on purpose will be more inclined to stand still during their chamber (i know i almost always stand still, or at least move very slow, when i'm chambering :))))

problem solve! :D
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Tydeus on October 19, 2014, 03:09:47 pm
As for any new ways to possibly implement chambers, it's equally as likely that they'd come with just as much "baggage" as the current system.
Your example seems to prove this point.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Teeth on October 19, 2014, 03:36:53 pm
edit: seriously now
If you find yourself fail to chambers you are just shit player, After so long time you should be able to block them.
Lol, stop kidding yourself Bobby. Chambers work very often outside of duels, and I strongly doubt that you block all of them, or even most. There are many weapons and animation chamber combinations that are nearly instant when angled, and they work even on the best players.

There should be a test in which you have to chamber a bot 10/10 before chamber functionality gets enabled ingame. This would at least remove the chambers by spamming bardiche scrubs who can barely block. Otherwise you could implement something in the control scheme that you have to press to activate chambering, but that would probably create a host of other issues.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on October 19, 2014, 03:40:06 pm
Lol, stop kidding yourself Bobby. Chambers work very often outside of duels, and I strongly doubt that you block all of them, or even most. There are many weapons and animation chamber combinations that are nearly instant when angled, and they work even on the best players.

There should be a test in which you have to chamber a bot 10/10 before chamber functionality gets enabled ingame. This would at least remove the chambers by spamming bardiche scrubs who can barely block. Otherwise you could implement something in the control scheme that you have to press to activate chambering, but that would probably create a host of other issues.

this ^
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Rebelyell on October 19, 2014, 04:52:50 pm
Elaborate troll thread.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Kafein on October 19, 2014, 05:33:15 pm
Actually, there is a crystal clear difference between chamberblocking intentionally and getting lucky chambers. The difference is that the latter results from spamming attacks haphazardly hoping to either double hit or chamberblock while the former happens as a deliberate and timed use of the attack animation instead of blocking, in a controlled environment. Some situations make it barely possible to chamberblock something deliberately, such as your enemy feinting or holding. That said, lucky chambers are very rare. It takes a lack of skill and a large amount of potato-based alcohol and vowels in your native language to intentionally run around liberally swinging bardiches in a full suit of heavy armor, hoping to get lucky chambers. The heavy armor, high damage weapon and lack of skill are required in order to make the risk/reward trade-off of hoping for lucky chambers while spamming actually worthwhile.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Teeth on October 19, 2014, 06:51:18 pm
I am fairly certain lucky chambers are like 300% more common than intentional chambers outside of duel, especially on siege, which makes the accidental use more relevant than the intentional use. Piking is a good source of lucky chambers as well as people continously start stabs and overheads in group engagements. I probably average more than one per round and I know they aren't intentional because I am not in their striking reach, so there is no motive to chamber instead of block.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Bjord on October 20, 2014, 08:52:33 am
rly guise, I'm seriaous
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 20, 2014, 09:03:34 am
successful troll is successful.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on December 26, 2017, 09:55:18 pm
Just to revive this one, I think they should remove chambers from EU1, there are too many occasions where people get random lucky chambers
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Sparvico on December 27, 2017, 12:59:04 am
Just to revive this one, I think they should remove chambers from EU1, there are too many occasions where people get random lucky chambers

This man sticks to his guns, ya gotta give him that.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Nickleback on December 29, 2017, 09:30:04 am
he is fucking right,corsair good job for explaining that ,but as you can see %95 of the game is also retards,so don't even argue.You were right and still right ,it is mostly luck,admins don't accept it because they don't like to deal with it ,gj
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: RandomDude on December 29, 2017, 11:15:04 pm
get rid of reverse chambers while you're at it too
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Bittersteel on December 29, 2017, 11:23:07 pm
remove 100% block aswell
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Ikarus on December 30, 2017, 01:56:40 am
don't be gay
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Paul on December 31, 2017, 07:20:41 am
4 attack directions are too many too. Limit it to 2 and have only 1 defend direction that blocks with 50% chance. It either works or not. Donators get increased block chance.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Asheram on December 31, 2017, 08:25:52 am
Also give hooks for hands
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Jaytjuh on January 01, 2018, 12:37:51 pm
then chamber back git gut
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on January 11, 2018, 07:07:09 pm
don't be gay

That's homophobic
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: RandomDude on January 11, 2018, 08:12:51 pm
My proper suggestion: Make everybody's (apart from mine) block direction be random so I can just swing like the good old days and be a 2h hero again.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Corsair831 on January 16, 2018, 01:09:59 am
My proper suggestion: Make everybody's (apart from mine) block direction be random so I can just swing like the good old days and be a 2h hero again.

they'd still kill you 3 times out of 5  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Rake_ on January 17, 2018, 06:37:35 pm
This man sticks to his guns, ya gotta give him that.

no this is something corsairs does on the native forums too, necros posts from a million years ago
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Butan on January 17, 2018, 08:34:43 pm
I know this thread is likely not serious (or if so, then I beg to differ!) but the chambering window is so small that even if it is sometimes done without purpose, it is too rare to be a problem.

If say, to chamber you had x3 as much time as you have right now, then the problem would be exponentially more apparent when fighting spammers: a good spam is also a technique, but if spamming mindlessly was becoming too good on a risk/reward formula (if chambering was very easy while spamming (+ combo breaking feinters)), then the game would reward beginners and punish excellent fighters way too much and I would join the idea of (not removing) nerfing chambering by making it harder to pull off.

Atm chambering is at a very nice sweet spot: if you have played the game a lot you can pull it off often if properly focused and good anticipation + the slowest/most powerful weapons somewhat benefit from it + the fastest weapons can still be counter-chambered (or just blocked) if perfect positioning. There is no real exploit possible and skill is properly rewarded.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Thryn on January 17, 2018, 08:39:48 pm
the real question is how do you have the exact same opinion on chambering 5 years later in m&b
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Nickleback on August 23, 2018, 09:04:58 pm
WHO THE FUCK IS PRINTING THIS!


Guest   09:03:35 PM   Printing the topic "Remove Chambering".
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Asheram on August 23, 2018, 09:21:22 pm
WHO THE FUCK IS PRINTING THIS!


Guest   09:03:35 PM   Printing the topic "Remove Chambering".
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Nickleback on August 23, 2018, 09:39:39 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Asheram is this gif supposed to send me some kind of message,i didn't get it.
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Asheram on August 23, 2018, 09:48:05 pm
Asheram is this gif supposed to send me some kind of message,i didn't get it.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Nickleback on August 23, 2018, 10:18:40 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Uhm okay
Title: Re: Remove Chambering
Post by: Asheram on August 23, 2018, 10:28:31 pm
Uhm okay
visitors can't see pics , please register or login