cRPG

Strategus => Strategus Issues => Topic started by: Crob28 on November 04, 2012, 05:22:08 pm

Title: About this multi account business....
Post by: Crob28 on November 04, 2012, 05:22:08 pm
God help me for starting this topic  :?

First off, I'm not trying to start a troll/flame/whine/whatever topic so please don't comment here if you want to say something along those lines.  I just want to make one point/ask a question, that's all.

Let me repeat something I said in another topic :

I believe that the frustration comes from the belief that banning the players who have multiaccounted is not enough.

By which I mean this, the factions that most of this thread talks about are perceived to have abused the multiaccount system on a clan-wide scale, meaning that it was not the actions of one or two players, but that the leadership knew and approved of, even planned, these practices.

This leads to the line of thinking that while banning accounts is of course a good thing, it also does not solve anything as the players banned have already shown that they are more than happy to simply get another one.

So the players banned will come back with new accounts, everything on strategus has been salvaged by their clans, which means that despite their cheating and being caught, they have in fact, lost nothing.

Building on this, it is fair to say multi accounting is a purely strategus cheat, it confers no benefits at all within crpg, but used in strat it can give a big advantage in terms of troops/gear/gold/fiefs.  Now whilst I understand that action has been taken and I am glad to see it, as I have said before, the clans who the cheaters belonged to are no worse off in terms of troops/gear/gold/fiefs than there we before this banwave occurred.

So what I am asking, is will there be/should there be, a STRATEGUS related punishment for a STRATEGUS related cheat.

Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Gnjus on November 04, 2012, 05:24:46 pm
God help me for starting this topic  :?

First off, I'm not trying to start a troll/flame/whine/whatever topic so please don't comment here if you want to say something along those lines.

*turns his view to the left and checks Crob's avatar........"

Your point is invalid.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Haboe on November 04, 2012, 05:35:28 pm
I remember a certain village that got attacked by flying carpets long long ago...

This situation calls for a repeat?
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: tizzango on November 04, 2012, 05:41:16 pm
The strategus related punishment is the immediate loss of all tickets/gold/troops they have on their multiple accounts? In addition, they are also losing a lot of players/keys .'. real life money.

Don't get me wrong, I understand and agree with your point here. I think more should be done, but to answer your question I believe that is a pretty hard punishment in itself- I imagine being permanently banned sucks yo.

What else did you have in mind?
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Crob28 on November 04, 2012, 05:48:13 pm
The strategus related punishment is the immediate loss of all tickets/gold/troops they have on their multiple accounts? In addition, they are also losing a lot of players/keys .'. real life money.

Don't get me wrong, I understand and agree with your point here. I think more should be done, but to answer your question I believe that is a pretty hard punishment in itself- I imagine being permanently banned sucks yo.

What else did you have in mind?

Well as far as I'm aware at the moment steps are being taken to recover everything lost, by attacking the banned players, so the "loss" lasts for a day or two while a takeover happens and so is minimal at best.  Though yea gold held by the player is gone, as is the money for the cd-key.

And hell yea, losing my character would suck balls, but assuming that the banned players get new keys, the clans will still have them in strat, and the loss of the actual character becomes a crpg issue, imho.

Nothing specific in mind though, I just wanted to raise the issue without getting sidetracked by other considerations.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: autobus on November 04, 2012, 06:41:33 pm
Well as far as I'm aware at the moment steps are being taken to recover everything lost, by attacking the banned players, so the "loss" lasts for a day or two while a takeover happens and so is minimal at best.
Banned player disappears from strat.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: rufio on November 04, 2012, 07:04:07 pm
(click to show/hide)

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Gingerpussy on November 04, 2012, 07:30:01 pm
I say a total wipe in Strat for all.

Fair for all. For those who cheat, for those that are falsely called a cheater. For those ppl caring of strategus.

A wipe of all gold all items and fiefs reset down to minimum and all points in fiefs back. owners who hold them now to still hold them.

Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Haboe on November 04, 2012, 08:27:33 pm
The strategus related punishment is the immediate loss of all tickets/gold/troops they have on their multiple accounts?

Thats the point, they keep all gear. As well as all the tickets and gold they have in the fiefs of banned owners.

I heard a brilliant idea a little while ago:

Take the % of players in each faction that cheated, and sentence that % of their fiefs to the carpet.
So if faction X has 20% of their members banned due to multiaccounting, 20% of their fiefs (randomly selected) gets a carpet-wipe.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: autobus on November 05, 2012, 01:25:23 am
I heard a brilliant idea a little while ago:

Take the % of players in each faction that cheated, and sentence that % of their fiefs to the carpet.
So if faction X has 20% of their members banned due to multiaccounting, 20% of their fiefs (randomly selected) gets a carpet-wipe.
how is it brilliant? fiefs do not have the same value, some are empty, others have most of faction resources in
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Haboe on November 05, 2012, 07:39:09 am
how is it brilliant? fiefs do not have the same value, some are empty, others have most of faction resources in

Because i like carpet wipes.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Butan on November 07, 2012, 06:03:42 pm
I say a total wipe in Strat for all.

Fair for all. For those who cheat, for those that are falsely called a cheater. For those ppl caring of strategus.

A wipe of all gold all items and fiefs reset down to minimum and all points in fiefs back. owners who hold them now to still hold them.


Cant really wipe strat everytime you catch a cheater.

Every game is more or less corrupted by cheat; I understand that the scale of the previous multi-accounts issue was (is) very large but I think it will balance itself with the penalty the cheaters received (stucked fiefs, some armies gone, etc..).
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Haboe on November 08, 2012, 01:01:50 am

Cant really wipe strat everytime you catch a cheater.

Every game is more or less corrupted by cheat; I understand that the scale of the previous multi-accounts issue was (is) very large but I think it will balance itself with the penalty the cheaters received (stucked fiefs, some armies gone, etc..).

They kept all cheated gear, got paused a few days because they had to make some transfers and barely lost troops.
I have no doubt the factions that cheated the most will be crushed, yet all that cheated gear needs to burn. I want carpets and firestaffs.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Visconti on November 08, 2012, 04:43:39 am
I say a total wipe in Strat for all.

Fair for all. For those who cheat, for those that are falsely called a cheater. For those ppl caring of strategus.

A wipe of all gold all items and fiefs reset down to minimum and all points in fiefs back. owners who hold them now to still hold them.

Sounds like a good way to kill off even more of the strat community.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Casimir on November 08, 2012, 09:44:40 pm
Sounds like a good way to kill off even more of the strat community.

Come on, any serious strat player isn't gunna leave because of a wipe.  Yeah maybe casual ones will but its not going kill the community...
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Visconti on November 09, 2012, 12:05:09 am
Come on, any serious strat player isn't gunna leave because of a wipe.  Yeah maybe casual ones will but its not going kill the community...

Im sure alot of the serious players would quit, losing hundreds of hours of work because a few idiots decided to cheat? How can anyone take strat seriously if its just gonna be wiped everytime someone tries to exploit/cheat. There is always gonna be something to exploit, especially with strat, wiping it every time something like this happens is not the answer, strat would never get anywhere.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Lt_Anders on November 09, 2012, 12:23:26 am
Im sure alot of the serious players would quit, losing hundreds of hours of work because a few idiots decided to cheat? How can anyone take strat seriously if its just gonna be wiped everytime someone tries to exploit/cheat. There is always gonna be something to exploit, especially with strat, wiping it every time something like this happens is not the answer, strat would never get anywhere.

lets rephrase this. Lets just wipe EU. NA rarely(if at all) cheats. Different mentalities i guess. NA it's all about battles and fun, EU all about that pixel crack.(though NA likes their pixel crack too)
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Casimir on November 09, 2012, 12:33:24 am
Well the fact that an effectively an entire NA clan was for a time banned seems to escape you Anders, granted they may not have been intentionally cheating but what they were doing is definitely ambiguous, and I'm sure looking back we could find other evidence of misbehaviour on both sides of the Atlantic...

Furthermore there have been wipes before and strat has continued, people didn't mass rage quit then why the hell would they now. 

Still i doubt there will be a wipe nor am i an advocate for one, i just think your point is invalid.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 09, 2012, 12:47:09 am
Im sure alot of the serious players would quit, losing hundreds of hours of work because a few idiots decided to cheat? How can anyone take strat seriously if its just gonna be wiped everytime someone tries to exploit/cheat. There is always gonna be something to exploit, especially with strat, wiping it every time something like this happens is not the answer, strat would never get anywhere.


And by a few idiots you mean a quarter/third of EU, right? That is a bloody huge number. This is not 'someone' or even a clan, this is 'a chunk of an entire dominant alliance plus a bunch of random other people.'


NA rarely(if at all) cheats.
In the last two strats I can already think of three notable incidents *shrugs* NA cheats less often because they have less people.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Lt_Anders on November 09, 2012, 01:07:12 am
Well the fact that an effectively an entire NA clan was for a time banned seems to escape you Anders, granted they may not have been intentionally cheating but what they were doing is definitely ambiguous, and I'm sure looking back we could find other evidence of misbehaviour on both sides of the Atlantic...

Furthermore there have been wipes before and strat has continued, people didn't mass rage quit then why the hell would they now. 

Still i doubt there will be a wipe nor am i an advocate for one, i just think your point is invalid.

They have been unbanned and allowed back to strat in 1 week. Also, whole clan? 3 guys is surely a lot. Actually, I think they are around 6 but either way, small clan. If it's 2 guys in a clan, if both are banned(for any reason), whole clan is banned yes? Sounds more imposing than it is. Now STR...like 40 keys gone, that's entirely different.

@Tears: What Incident are you talking about, outside of Fallen?
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 09, 2012, 01:08:48 am
Well there is a certain NA clan that recently did some account-sharing, and another a while ago that duped gold in previous strat.


*shrugs*


Don't mind me, carry on *waves*
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: BaleOhay on November 09, 2012, 01:10:04 am
Evidence shows EURO have a greater percentage of cheaters in strat. I would say that goes back as far I have been playing strat. Pale all got banned sure.. 6 guys who were just moving another around. no big deal. Euro has had multiple ban waves for major cheating.. So I would say the eu seem to cheat more is appropriate... and add that they also do not learn from it.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Lt_Anders on November 09, 2012, 01:10:33 am
Well there is a certain NA clan that recently did some account-sharing, and another a while ago that duped gold in previous strat.


*shrugs*


Don't mind me, carry on *waves*

Hosp didn't dupe gold if I understand what you are talking about. Please tell me who it was. Either name names or don't speak. I can accuse people all i want of cheating(Fallen Arab Oil anyone?), doesn't mean it's right.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 09, 2012, 01:12:09 am
But the Fallen Arab Oil Money was correct...  :|


I can accuse people all i want of cheating... doesn't mean it's right.
I agree.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Lt_Anders on November 09, 2012, 01:17:29 am
But the Fallen Arab Oil Money was correct...  :|

Right.... (http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/mega-alliances-who%27s-to-blame-what-to-do/msg616947/#msg616947)
No, he is pretty much still batshit crazy about the money used as bribes. Classical made it very public with multiple posts even in the stickied donation thread that he was running out of money, so naturally we wanted to keep them financed as they ran smoothly. Pretty standard troll tactic of using a single shard of truth to create some warped fantasy. Now excuse me while I take a shower in $100 bills.

Also think this needs moved somewhere else If we going to continue.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: dodnet on November 09, 2012, 10:31:42 am
Evidence shows EASTERN EURO have a greater percentage of cheaters in strat.

Just to make this correct and clear  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Tuonela on November 09, 2012, 05:30:01 pm
One may not gain benefits from criminal actions. All criminal actions are punishable too. They got banned, they got punished. Their side still has benefited from criminal actions. This isn't fair for those who has spend a lot of time organizing their clans for strategus. Those clans/persons who has troops/gold/equipment from the banned players/clans should have them reduced or removed.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Herr_Thomas on November 12, 2012, 12:44:28 pm
Ban.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: BlindGuy on November 12, 2012, 01:16:09 pm
.... Now STR...like 40 keys gone, that's entirely different.



Not really, cause they had about 5 players.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Tibe on November 13, 2012, 06:49:26 am
I quess the only way to keep richboycheaters away from the game is admins lurking in their TS or something or getting some inside info of the clans activity from the INSIDE from acctual people who do give a shit.

I quess its purely right to call an entire clan a cheater if they got like 3 multiaccounters. Cause its more then certian most of the members and definately the leaders are fully aware of this, if it did occur. Or atleast they should give their suspicions to the admins for them to check it.

One of my suggestions whould be to not let less than a month old Crpg accounts in Strategus. I mean this one could really work. A acctual fresh member first learns the mechanics of mod before he goes in the full Strat shitstorm anyway. Yea they could still join Strat after 1 month, but atleast  Sir Moneybags whould have missed alot of action by that time until he returns to his gameruining deeds.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Vovka on November 13, 2012, 03:24:43 pm
(click to show/hide)
Retinal Scanner for login in cRPG the best way to avoid multiaccaunting (it is more reliable than a fingerprint scanner, as some may use fingers of corpses)
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: dodnet on November 13, 2012, 04:02:32 pm
Retinal Scanner for login in cRPG the best way to avoid multiaccaunting (it is more reliable than a fingerprint scanner, as some may use fingers of corpses)

You can trust me, its a human eye!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Quentry on November 13, 2012, 05:42:15 pm
Retinal Scanner for login in cRPG the best way to avoid multiaccaunting (it is more reliable than a fingerprint scanner, as some may use fingers of corpses)
+1
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Tibe on November 13, 2012, 08:14:30 pm
Retinal Scanner for login in cRPG the best way to avoid multiaccaunting (it is more reliable than a fingerprint scanner, as some may use fingers of corpses)

Ohh common dont mock me. Im pretty sure its more than possible for Crpg to keep track when the accounts were created and I bet there is some way you could make the first month as period when you cant join Strategus on the map.

Why whould honest and good starting players even need to jump straight into strat. Let them find clans, gather info etc. Unless, there is some poor guy who got either hacked or lost cdkey, in which case, its just unlucky. You know its a good idea, but you beat it down cause you know the only reason UIF even exsist on the stratmap is cause you have a chinese factory out of ghostaccounts.   :lol:
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Vovka on November 13, 2012, 09:08:53 pm
Ohh common dont mock me. Im pretty sure its more than possible for Crpg to keep track when the accounts were created and I bet there is some way you could make the first month as period when you cant join Strategus on the map.
Why whould honest and good starting players even need to jump straight into strat. Let them find clans, gather info etc. Unless, there is some poor guy who got either hacked or lost cdkey, in which case, its just unlucky. You know its a good idea, but you beat it down cause you know the only reason UIF even exsist on the stratmap is cause you have a chinese factory out of ghostaccounts.   :lol:
Yes, of course you're right. I'm sure the developers will consider your smart idea and implement it  :P Ur Mom would be proud of you  :P
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Tibe on November 14, 2012, 06:28:58 am
I just called her, she is. She also thinks im cool.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Cepeshi on November 14, 2012, 07:39:58 am
To the regular US vs EU crap, we got Poles and Ruskies, what do YOU have, ey?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: BASNAK on November 14, 2012, 08:42:47 am
To the regular US vs EU crap, we got Poles and Ruskies, what do YOU have, ey?  :mrgreen:

One account per player.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: dodnet on November 14, 2012, 10:05:01 am
One account per player.

How boooooooring  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Cepeshi on November 14, 2012, 03:23:46 pm
One account per player.
hey that is just like your opinion man
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Farrix on November 15, 2012, 05:12:29 pm
It's kinda sad really, when people sacrifice the concepts of morality in order to win a video game. I remember back in strat one. I came in during the end of the first great crusade. When the 22nd was wiped by the Templar Order. I helped set up an NA division of templar and we were fairly well established in the northern templar lands (still swadian). Things were relatively quiet to begin with. Then a war started with the russians. We started seeing all kinds of game mechanics get abused. The most notable and accurate example I have would be the transfer distance mechanic. Entire armies were moved across the whole map in a matter of hours. I don't have anymore specific examples for you, but trust me, there were a variety of abuses. I do not know if the UIF currently cheats. All that I know is the history that I have witnessed since the beginning of strategus. That is a history which repeatedly illustrates a style of play from DRZ (which is the real basis for UIF) that consists of abusing vulnerable game mechanics in an effort to garner a victory despite having to drag that win through some very degrading actions.

A clean loss is much preferable to a dirty win.

Please excuse the nostalgia. A mental review of strat history promoted within me a level of disgust which revealed itself in this thread.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Casimir on November 15, 2012, 05:32:27 pm
The problem was the mechanics of the game were far more rudemntary then than now, so strictly it wasnt and exploit or a cheat, just badly planned on the devs behalf.

Multic accounting ofc is a whole differnet matter and also a problem that was present in strat 1.  Although not officially againjst the rules until the later stages it remained part of the ethos of many clans that it was acceptable, although clear messages from the devs had stated otherwise.

Its easy to ban people for cheating, its harder to change the ethos of the cheaters.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 15, 2012, 05:48:43 pm
Yes, of course you're right. I'm sure the developers will consider your smart idea and implement it  :P Ur Mom would be proud of you  :P
Possibly the lamest comeback I've heard yet on these forums.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Farrix on November 15, 2012, 05:55:51 pm
"wasn't strictly an exploit or a cheat" This is reflective of the general theme I was attempting to describe. Have you ever heard of Natural law and Positive law, the differences and definitions of either term? Natural law references what we as humans know to be morally correct actions. Positive law is simply the written out, formal, reiteration of Natural law. Now if the game mechanics could fit the role of "Natural Law," then "Positive Law" would be the rules laid out by the developers and admins. The style of gameplay which I was attempting to describe has been a consistent style of seeking out the inconsistencies between the game mechanics, and the dev's rules. A strict adherence to this form of positive law limits the subject to following only the rules described, with no compass or guidelines for how one reacts to situations where the devs have not designated specific rules.

It seems to be as if they say to themselves, "This prolly isn't the best thing to do, but noone told me not to, so it's alright!"


Yeah it is hard to change ethos. A damned shame too.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Casimir on November 15, 2012, 07:11:02 pm
"wasn't strictly an exploit or a cheat" This is reflective of the general theme I was attempting to describe. Have you ever heard of Natural law and Positive law, the differences and definitions of either term? Natural law references what we as humans know to be morally correct actions. Positive law is simply the written out, formal, reiteration of Natural law. Now if the game mechanics could fit the role of "Natural Law," then "Positive Law" would be the rules laid out by the developers and admins. The style of gameplay which I was attempting to describe has been a consistent style of seeking out the inconsistencies between the game mechanics, and the dev's rules. A strict adherence to this form of positive law limits the subject to following only the rules described, with no compass or guidelines for how one reacts to situations where the devs have not designated specific rules.

It seems to be as if they say to themselves, "This prolly isn't the best thing to do, but noone told me not to, so it's alright!"


Yeah it is hard to change ethos. A damned shame too.

Gosh i haven't dealt with law for a few years now but i appreciate what your saying, unfortunately in a virtual community such as this there is only one law that will ever be enacted and that is the choice of the oligarchy.
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Macropus on November 15, 2012, 09:50:40 pm
We don't need multi accounts cuz we got this:   
(click to show/hide)
:P
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Haboe on November 15, 2012, 10:08:36 pm
We don't need multi accounts cuz we got this:   
(click to show/hide)
:P

What happened to your unicycles?
Title: Re: About this multi account business....
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 15, 2012, 10:14:57 pm
What happened to your unicycles?


That's the modern Russian Army, we're talking about the Middle Ages  :wink: