cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: drivec on January 06, 2011, 06:08:33 am

Title: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: drivec on January 06, 2011, 06:08:33 am
i really think upkeep is unnecessary and is more of a burden for players then anything. why would u add something to make things harder for people.

upkeep adds unbalance to builds because some builds require more upkeep then others. builds should not be balance by what u can buy and support but should be by stats and skills.

it would be much more fairer(and funner) if we all just got less money and didnt have to worry about upkeep and not being able to use our items again for while.

no one wants to lvl to max lvl just to not be able to use full gear all the time thats not fun and means u are always grinding even at max lvl.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Kophka on January 06, 2011, 06:44:38 am
What would you suggest to keep the arms race from peaking 2 weeks into the patch though? There were so many people in plate with huge weapons that it looked more like a fantasy game than anything, with all the other top tier equipment flooding the game. Give the crew some time to fine tune the system, and enjoy the fact that, just like in history, people have to plan their gear out, instead of all top tier, all the time.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: drivec on January 06, 2011, 09:26:06 am
because builds that require heavy armor to survive cost more upkeep then builds that run with lighter armor.

certain builds will be able to wear full top tier all the time and builds requiring heavy armor to survive wont. which is unbalanced and unfun. i dont see why ppl complain about top tier armor when everyone has access to it.

there are tons of better ways to limit those high tiers stuff like weight then adding a cost to using items u bought.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Waylit on January 06, 2011, 10:06:05 am
What would you suggest to keep the arms race from peaking 2 weeks into the patch though? There were so many people in plate with huge weapons that it looked more like a fantasy game than anything, with all the other top tier equipment flooding the game. Give the crew some time to fine tune the system, and enjoy the fact that, just like in history, people have to plan their gear out, instead of all top tier, all the time.


So as it stands now:  Some people have a harder (or more random) time using/attaining high level armors due to the fact that not everybody causes a Win, some just ride the waves of fate.  Some people (those with no life, who you see on cRPG 12 hours a day) have no problem with upkeep!  Well, at least until their million gold runs out.  So now those people are the only people consistently running around in the best armor.

I'd MUCH RATHER have the "level playing field" be at higher level armor and weapons that everybody has, like it was before the patch.  At least that way, it's my black armor vs theirs.  Not my light chain vs their Milanese every single time.

Also:  I've never considered cRPG a "realistic" game.  That shouldn't suddenly be a justification for upkeep.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Blondin on January 06, 2011, 10:12:21 am
Weight nerf have been already done, but one more time it impact more heavier armor, it's the same...
Upkeep is good cos it force to wear lighter armor but also cheaper weapon(so less damage) and with archer cut nerf you don't need to wear uber armor to be protected.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Siboire on January 06, 2011, 10:37:44 am
I like a lot the new patch and the upkeep system but we could maybe just lower  a bit the fees to repair items cuz 20% of the item's value is really high.  :)
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Black Wind on January 06, 2011, 10:44:07 am
You are wrong, armour upkeep is necessary. Since the patch has been out, I have seen one tincan and one Horse Archer. This keeps it fair, so people can't just run into the front lines and kill everything whilst wearing plate. Sure, the upkeep is too expensive at the moment.

I don't believe weapon upkeep is necessary though, as there is no 'tier' weapons; It comes down to preference. Even still, the bastard sword is similar to the katana in stats and costs 330 gold, where the katana costs around 9.8k. The katana costs alot more to repair due to the price difference. This is all written in my opinion.

Cheers.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Kafein on January 06, 2011, 11:53:00 am
You are wrong, armour upkeep is necessary. Since the patch has been out, I have seen one tincan and one Horse Archer. This keeps it fair, so people can't just run into the front lines and kill everything whilst wearing plate. Sure, the upkeep is too expensive at the moment.

I don't believe weapon upkeep is necessary though, as there is no 'tier' weapons; It comes down to preference. Even still, the bastard sword is similar to the katana in stats and costs 330 gold, where the katana costs around 9.8k. The katana costs alot more to repair due to the price difference. This is all written in my opinion.

Cheers.

You pay the japanese anime style.

I personnaly believe there's something wrong with the idea of an upkeep system in a game of "progress". It's clearly easier to force players to wear lighter equipment that way, but the "equipment farming" factor becomes void in cRPG. You simply play like in Native, or maybe even worse because you can loose your equipment for the next round.

But why not simply balance the stats better, if you aim to decrease the plate population ? Add armor value to lighter armors, decrease armor values of plates. The game is already giving nearly similar advantages for a light armor and a heavy armor. Speed and protection balance. A skillful player may like speed over protection more than a less skilled one, and choose a lighter equipment (MANY skilled players already do that). Many players say they play better when they do not wear top tier armors.

The ONLY reason why a skilled player would use a plate armor, was sniper-longbows-of-I-kill-you-and-your-grandmother-in-one-hit. And thanks chadz those vanished. Now, the level cap already prevents people from being sick fast and using plate armor. There's no equipment imbalance anymore, even without upkeep.

About diversity, IMO the upkeep won't lead to diversity. People will choose the best armor/price ratios. And as everyone will be authorised to upkeep 20k or 30k... Everyone in a class will soon be using the 2, maybe 3 same armors, except clans with uniforms, because everyone can support the SAME amount !!! Yes everyone will be able to upkeep the same amount of equipment value. Even with extreme gear, you can't hope of really influencing the round outcome. And even if you succeed to increase your chance of winning a round to 60%, which is a big influence, it's not economical on the long run because you have to pay for your supposedly better equipment when you fail.

So yes, upkeep is fail IMO.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Kafein on January 07, 2011, 02:30:21 am
Shameless bump, with a little addition :



There's no real problem with upkeep, simply an idea of gaming that changes.


Now, you can buy anything you want in a flash (just leech naked and you make tons of money compared to what you could get pre 0.2).
But you have to pay the upkeep. So there's a total value limit for your equipment. There will be NO point in having equipment worth less or more. What's the fucking USE of wearing a bigger armor once or twice ??? You won't gain more gold if you wear a better equipment.

The only thing that differenciates a character and another is now it's level.

The upkeep system has divided the "RPG" factor in cRPG by two : gold isn't here to make you have better equipment over time, it's just to prevent any form of progression.

So I suggest a namechange to "Native Expanded" since "cRPG" has nearly no sense anymore.

Yes, I enjoy playing to see my character grow in power. I'm human, I'm not Chinese, I simply fucking enjoy playing a game where the experience CHANGES. As I said, if you think tincans are a problem, nerf them. You don't need to overhaul the gameplay mechanics.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: whitepaladin on October 27, 2011, 11:17:25 pm
the best idea is to make srevers for low tier mid tier high tier and end game players .low tier=max gold 7500 max level 10. mid tier=max gold 15000 max level 17.high tier=max gold 30000 max level 28.end game is infinite resource.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Patricia on October 28, 2011, 01:24:27 am
Upkeep was implemented for a reason, because back when there was no upkeep, everyone was running around in full plate with huscarl and elite scimitar with a pocket pike and a pocket flamberge on a plated charger.

I'm still not sure why people complain about upkeep.

I tried a full gen in Gothic plate with Bevor, Armet, Cased Greaves, Hourglass gauntlets and a lonsword and at the end I still gained 40k in total.

the best idea is to make srevers for low tier mid tier high tier and end game players .low tier=max gold 7500 max level 10. mid tier=max gold 15000 max level 17.high tier=max gold 30000 max level 28.end game is infinite resource.

No, that's a shitty idea, let's not split the already small community, and I don't want to be forced to fight everyone in plate on plated chargers.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Remy on October 28, 2011, 02:28:06 am
As much as I hate paying repair on my arrows/horse, it actually balances in some way as one will almost never see endless rounds of only the best equipment.

Which surprisingly makes the game slightly more varied and in my view fun.  :P
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: rustyspoon on October 28, 2011, 03:05:44 am
Upkeep is such a non-issue in this mod. If you're having money troubles you are either riding an armored horse every round or you are doing something TERRIBLY wrong.

If anything, upkeep is too low.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Dezilagel on October 28, 2011, 03:06:39 am
wtfnecro?  :shock:
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Tzar on October 28, 2011, 07:43:24 am
Grind grind grind.....

Loom everything u need...

Grind grind grind...

Sell heirloom points...

= Profit you now have a fully loomed tin can plowing trough the battlefield in god like armor with top tier weapon trough the masses of regular players.....

Nothing has changed beside the time invested in being able to run around in super armor with top tier weapon. Upkeep just limits the amount of tin cans in god like armor  :?

Dunno what´s worse the old days where everyone rode around having fun in their top tier gear with no limits on how they dress up thx to not haveing to pay upkeep... or as it is now catering the no lifers.. so only few can do it  :lol:
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 28, 2011, 09:25:38 am
Upkeep is a very fine thing. Without it we would have "the ages of tincans" back after 1 week -.-


But some upkeep could need a slight change (bodkin arrows for example :/  they break 8-9 times out of ten -.- )
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on October 28, 2011, 10:03:17 am
wtfnecro?  :shock:
guys really, look at the date.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Tzar on October 28, 2011, 11:06:22 am
But some upkeep could need a slight change (bodkin arrows for example :/  they break 8-9 times out of ten -.- )

Thats the price of gettin a ranged bec de corbin with 122343240 range on your machine gun bows....  infact its a small price to play to get such an insane dmg bonus....  :|
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: IR_Kuoin on October 28, 2011, 11:09:59 am
i really think upkeep is unnecessary and is more of a burden for players then anything. why would u add something to make things harder for people.

upkeep adds unbalance to builds because some builds require more upkeep then others. builds should not be balance by what u can buy and support but should be by stats and skills.

it would be much more fairer(and funner) if we all just got less money and didnt have to worry about upkeep and not being able to use our items again for while.

no one wants to lvl to max lvl just to not be able to use full gear all the time thats not fun and means u are always grinding even at max lvl.

So you would prefer people like me who has over 1 million gold to go raping your sorry peasant butt with plated charger, full plate and best fucking armor in tha' game + weps to rape your sorry as every round?! I know repair is a burden but c'mon better to have that than having 20 plated chargers running around...   8-)
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Patricklus on October 30, 2011, 02:41:43 am
im with the original post i would gladly prefer it if we all hadd plate an no upkeep than 6 guys with +3 everything  and owning siege/battle cause atleast then it WOULD be fair and would not take 2-3 months too make a few hundred k  gold and lose it all in a week wearing full plate. or you could nerf plate too be uber slow like they should be

Weight nerf have been already done, but one more time it impact more heavier armor, it's the same...
Upkeep is good cos it force to wear lighter armor but also cheaper weapon(so less damage) and with archer cut nerf you don't need to wear uber armor to be protected.
blondie your out of your head if you think they nerfed weight on plate 5 athletics with lamellar armor straw hat rus boots an leather gloves and many plates are just as fast as me. i may have not understood your post though. that being said i miss the old crpg where it was you had to be in the thick ofthe battle too make gold and you got more if you killed more.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: whitepaladin on November 10, 2011, 12:49:34 am
my idea was tincan vs tincan peasant vs peasant normal vs normal just like that so the game can please everyone
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on November 10, 2011, 01:18:49 am
Upkeep is totally fine and I don't think it will never be taken out of the game.

It was a very nice idea and it still is. Do you guys think that swords or armours were cheap in medieval times? Do you think every fucking soldier was running around in full plate? My goodness this makes the game more realistic, fair and also varied.

Stop whining every week just because you have no plated armour atm or maybe because you can't afford the money to wear it 24/7  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Diomedes on November 10, 2011, 07:03:42 am
my idea was tincan vs tincan peasant vs peasant normal vs normal just like that so the game can please everyone

Why did you revive a nine month old thread?  Make a new thread for an idea as substantive as creating three new servers and doing away with the upkeep system.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Vibe on November 10, 2011, 08:57:11 am
my idea was tincan vs tincan peasant vs peasant normal vs normal just like that so the game can please everyone

Double necro, same thread. Nice.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: whitepaladin on November 10, 2011, 11:08:19 pm
yes but this game is for fun not realism or anything like that,thats why I introduce a system that pleases everyone
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Diomedes on November 10, 2011, 11:34:23 pm
yes but this game is for fun not realism or anything like that,thats why I introduce a system that pleases everyone


...michael?


Make a new thread and outline your idea in full.  You won't get much traction with a double-dead thread and piecemeal posts.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Vibe on November 11, 2011, 01:41:45 pm
yes but this game is for fun not realism or anything like that,thats why I introduce a system that pleases everyone

No, no upkeep will only make it fun for tincans. Your system does certainly not please everyone.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: dodnet on November 11, 2011, 02:40:56 pm
No thanks... I don't want everyone riding around on a plated charger with black armor, because of no repairs. It's good the way it is.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Sawbone on November 11, 2011, 02:43:24 pm
Better balance = upkeep is superfluous

Why can a guy with full Plate Mail jump? Or a plated charger? Or a guy in Full plate on Plate charger jumping over you head? Why does the plate guy not take much more time to get up when falling on his back than the peasant in cloth? Why do plate not slow attack speed?

Play with the mechanics, don't add grind that lifeless players negates anyway because they're loaded with gold. An army of tin cans should be an army of turtles: not viable and easy targets - even if they can take a huge beating.

People used plate to survive battles, not to kick more ass jumping head first in the opposing army.

There's many good ideas in this mod - upkeep ain't one of them. I personally like style over stats anyways, so you'll never see me in that horrible black armor ;)

Cheers,
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Vibe on November 11, 2011, 02:50:33 pm
You don't really need to grind to overcome upkeep. Just use cheaper gear.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Duke on November 11, 2011, 07:27:54 pm
You don't really need to grind to overcome upkeep. Just use cheaper gear.
Which is grinding if you're saving up to use that expensive stuff again.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: whitepaladin on November 13, 2011, 05:48:17 pm
to please all then have tincans fighting tincans normal players fighting normal playes and peasants fighting peasants. therefore those who are tincans can have there armor so long as they fight guys with heavy armor too. ok
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on November 13, 2011, 10:09:33 pm
let this stupid thread die already...
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Vibe on November 14, 2011, 09:01:19 am
Which is grinding if you're saving up to use that expensive stuff again.

Well don't use expensive gear at all then?
Learn to fight, not crutch on high armor.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Kalp on November 14, 2011, 01:56:05 pm
More this on servers ?
(click to show/hide)

No, thank you. Bring back the upkeep starting at 1 level 1 gen. Most of us played with upkeep at gen 1 lvl 1, I don't see the reason why newbies shoould have easier at beginning.
Title: Re: upkeep unnecessary
Post by: Zerran on November 15, 2011, 10:03:21 am
More this on servers ?
(click to show/hide)

No, thank you. Bring back the upkeep starting at 1 level 1 gen. Most of us played with upkeep at gen 1 lvl 1, I don't see the reason why newbies shoould have easier at beginning.

Definitely agree with bringing back upkeep lvl 1 gen 1. Honestly it kind of seems like its hurting newbs more than helping them anyway, they get used to not having upkeep, buy all heavy plate, and suddenly can't afford anything they bought when they hit 25.

Otherwise upkeep is fine. If you really want to use that heavy equipment then sell an heirloom point, that should last you a while unless you want to use a plated horse as well.