cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Casimir on April 20, 2011, 03:33:52 am
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Glaive 4656
weight 2.8
requirement 11
spd rtng 90
weapon length 160
swing damage 39, cut
thrust damage 22 pierce
Poleaxe 8036
weight 3.25
requirement 17
spd rtng 89
weapon length 141
swing damage 40, cut
thrust damage 31 pierce
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against Shield
As we can see from this there are major balance issues between these two items.
The poleaxe is nearly twice the price of the glaive, for that you get 1 more cut damage, nearly 20 less reach and 1 less speed.
To balance this you do gain a bonus against shield and a significant boost to pierce damage.
Furthermore the poleaxe weighs more, adding to further loss in speed and WPF as well as having a higher requirement.
In my opinion the poleaxe needs better cut damage or better speed.
I guess glaive will get nerf instead but buffing heir tier polearms is a better choice.
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Elegant Poleaxe 12026
weight 2
requirement 16
spd rtng 92
weapon length 132
swing damage 39, cut
thrust damage 26 pierce
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against Shield
Compared to the glaive +4 thrust damage + 2 speed -28 reach +bonus against shield +7,370 gold
Far worse than the poleaxe is compared to the glaive
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Glaive never really made sense to me. Might as well just go 2Hs instead.
Poleaxe is fine. I almost have a Mighty one.
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Use Glaive when stuck on eu with 140 ping and pretend you can maintain range, also to give cav a chance. Use elegant to wack at shields and cos it looks cool.
Seriously .. arguing price or up keep is only something that affects paupers.
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Some polearms need to be nerfed, and other polearms need a boost. I think that:
-- Need a nerf:
- Long Hafted Blade
- Long Hafted Knobbed Mace
- Long Hafted Spiked Mace
- Great Long Axe (I heard that it will be unbalanced soon)
- Glaive
-- Need a boost:
- Elegant poleaxe .. 12000??
- Poleaxe (I think that it need +1 speed)
- German Poleaxe (Too short to be a polearm (131 range only))
- Swiss Halberd (At least, down the price)
- English Bill (The same)
The cheaper polearms are the better that you can get. High tier polearms are worst than the cheaper ones. I don't understand that.
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What? Pole axe vs glaive are internally balanced. You get a lot nicer stab and bonus to shield for a price of some speed and length.
Also, weight is a good thing not a bad thing. It doesn't make you swing slower. It also helps protect you from crush through by being a heavier weapon and more resistant to crush.
as for swiss halberd vs english bill, they are perfectly internally balanced and I love them for their slight trade offs. They are also internally balanced in reference to the glaive too, which is shorter, and doesn't have the specific benefits of bonus to shield or the high pierce overhead while gaining side swings as a trade.
I'd agree on long hafted blade/knobbed mace/spiked mace getting a slight nerf to speed.
Also, knobbed mace needs to follow the powerful heirloom line rather than masterwork line for heirlooms. currently knobbed mace gets faster and faster each heirloom unlike spiked mace. Hilarious heirloom.
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I agree with Marathon.
Glaive is certainly a nice weapon, but the poleaxe is much more versatile. Bonus to shield just kills 1h users, the weight is beneficial, and the stab is very useful. I think all that justifies the price difference.
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well as im sure your aware the weight nerf affects your wpf and MOVEMENT speed so increased weight is a bad thing.
Also trust me the weight is not high enough to stop yourself being crushed by a real crusher, atleast not on EU.
Theses weapons are clearly similar, the elgant poleaxe is far better compared to the long hafted blade internally as its shorter but has greater speed.
The Poleaxe is better compared to the Glaive as they are so similar in damage and length as well as speed and the price clearly implies an imbalance.
If you compare this to 2h for example the top ended greatswords offer far more damage or speed than the mid teir weapons .
Ive used both weapons extensively and please explain how the poleaxe is "More versatile"?
Yes bonus against shield sis great when fighting 1h's, but up against a polearm or 2h your at a disadvantage compared to the glaive in almost every way.
Further evidence of imbalance is shown as a masterwork glaive gains far +2 speed whereas a mighty poleaxe recives only +1.
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I'll take the poleaxe over the glaive anyday. 31 vs. 22 pierce, plus shield bonus, are you kidding?
The only bad thing about the poleaxe is the 17 requirement so you cannot use it on a 15 str build and even if you go for 18 str, it takes long levels before you can use it.
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well as im sure your aware the weight nerf affects your wpf and MOVEMENT speed so increased weight is a bad thing.
As we do not know the new WPF penalty formula we can only assume it works similar to the old one, that means that only armor provides a penalty to WPF and equipment (like weapons and shields) only give a movement speed penalty. Weight is a very useful attribute because you have more chances of resisting crush through (especially from non heirloomed bar maces and other similar weapons), your weapon cannot be stunned but you can stun other weapons.
Theses weapons are clearly similar, the elgant poleaxe is far better compared to the long hafted blade internally as its shorter but has greater speed.
They're not similar because they fufill different roles. The glaive is a polearm with a very long reach and good damage but it lacks a good thrust or shield breaking capability that the poleaxes have. The poleaxes have since the patch received "axe" modifiers when they get heirloomed which are inferior to normal "polearm" modifiers but hopefully that will be addressed by the patch.
The glaive is an overpowered weapon and it will be hopefully addressed in the patch, but it is not the only overpowered weapon. The poleaxes (any of the three poleaxes) are definitely not underpowered and once the rest of the weapons are brought in line they will shine as top tier weapons.
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Actually, we do know the new WPF penalty formula (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2722.msg47035.html#msg47035).
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Actually, we do know the new WPF penalty formula (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2722.msg47035.html#msg47035).
Unless it's posted by cmpx or other dev, it's all just speculations.
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The poleaxe is not really UP more the fact that the glavie is OP.
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God i hope they don't unbalance the Great Long Axe, It would then be useless when the Great Long Bardiche beats it in everything except for speed
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Ive used both weapons extensively and please explain how the poleaxe is "More versatile"?
Yes bonus against shield sis great when fighting 1h's, but up against a polearm or 2h your at a disadvantage compared to the glaive in almost every way.
Definition of versatile:
ver·sa·tile
[vur-suh-tl or, especially Brit., -tahyl]
adjective
1. capable of or adapted for turning easily from one to another of various tasks, fields of endeavor, etc.: a versatile writer.
2. having or capable of many uses: a versatile tool.
From: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/versatile
Poleaxes are capable of shield-breaking, while glaives are about as effective as two-handed swords; that is to say, not very. I would say that the poleaxe is fairly versatile.
Further evidence of imbalance is shown as a masterwork glaive gains far +2 speed whereas a mighty poleaxe recives only +1.
Change glaive to mighty heirloom line, or change poleaxes to masterwork heirloom line.
Unless it's posted by cmpx or other dev, it's all just speculations.
There is speculation and then there is rigorously-tested hypotheses. Just because something is not officially confirmed or denied by a dev does not mean that it is not true. If you choose not to use the hard work of members of the community, that is your own prerogative. Since the devs have been tight-lipped about battle mechanics and formulas, it has fallen to the players to determine the way in which the cRPG universe works.
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well as im sure your aware the weight nerf affects your wpf and MOVEMENT speed so increased weight is a bad thing.
Weapon weight has nothing to do with WPF penalty. The actual difference in weight isn't enough to significantly slow you down
Also trust me the weight is not high enough to stop yourself being crushed by a real crusher, atleast not on EU.
Well... yes and no. A great maul and a boulder-on-a-stick (aka long maul) will crush through it consistently... if the opponent has a high enough PS rating and a decent speed bonus. If they mess up their speed bonus badly enough, the extra weight can make a difference between a crush-through and a regular block.
Secondly, you're not factoring in the most important part of heavier weapons: weapon stun. If you are using a very light weapon like a scimitar, and your opponent is using a heavier weapon, you will experience a "mini-stun" when you block a hit. A lot of the complaints of "2 hand spam" come from this. Having a heavier weapon will prevent this mini-stun, and make it much more difficult for an opponent to mini stun on a properly charged attack. This is a very strong benefit.
If you compare this to 2h for example the top ended greatswords offer far more damage or speed than the mid teir weapons .
apples and oranges here. Great swords don't have this enormous difference in pierce damage, and no sword has that highly appealing bonus to shields.
Ive used both weapons extensively and please explain how the poleaxe is "More versatile"?
This has already been covered quite well by Rhaelys, and I see no reason to add to it at this point.
Yes bonus against shield sis great when fighting 1h's, but up against a polearm or 2h your at a disadvantage compared to the glaive in almost every way.
Nothing could be further from the truth. You don't think an extra 9 pierce is an advantage? Its a bit shorter, but in tighter quarters thats not a big disadvantage. I use the bec, and there are many times when the weapon's short reach has won me the fight. The speed of the two are almost the same, and as I covered earlier, the extra weight is very desirable against a 2 handed weapon. Poleaxe is a much more well rounded weapon.
Further evidence of imbalance is shown as a masterwork glaive gains far +2 speed whereas a mighty poleaxe recives only +1.
That might need to be changed, but the weapon is fairly well balanced internally.